| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"psalmsmith" |
| Date: |
09 Aug 2007 02:50:54 AM |
| Object: |
What is the nature of God? |
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Now, let's examine what God has revealed to us in His written word, and
see if we can come up with an answer to this bewildering array of
doctrines and theologies.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the
cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping
thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in
his own image, in the image of God created he him; male
and female created he them." Genesis 1:26-27, KJV.
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, He also
created mankind. When He created mankind, He created us in His image.
This should tell us that any accurate theology of the nature of God
should in some fundamental way resemble the nature of man. Not because
God resembles man, but because God made man to resemble Himself.
The problem with the existing theologies of the nature of God, is that
none of them can be said to truly resemble the nature of man. Man is
not a trinity of three persons. Man is not a singular entity that acts
in a series of disparate personas. A man is not simultaneously two
separate persons such as his own father and his own son.
Man is a singular persona. He is one personality, a single being. Much
like man, God is said to be ONE:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
Deuteronomy 6:4, KJV.
Some theologies of the nature of God make Jesus Christ 'another' God.
However, God Himself says that this is impossible:
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his
redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the
last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6, KJV.
Thus the same singular Being is God in the first, just as the same
singular Being is God in the last, and there are no others.
We know also from scripture, that we perceive God along three distinct
aspects, each of which *appear* from our perspective to be completely
and independently sentient.
The Father:
"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy
father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a
willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and
understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if
thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou
forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever."
1 Chronicles 28:9, KJV.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even
the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world
unto our glory:" 1 Corinthians 2:7, KJV.
The Son:
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in
favour with God and man." Luke 2:52, KJV.
The Holy Spirit:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom
the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all
things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26, KJV.
"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back
part of the price of the land?" Acts 5:3, KJV.
"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things
of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save
the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
1 Corinthians 2:10-11, KJV.
"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame
Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
1 Corinthians 12:11, KJV.
And yet, we have to reconcile that with the concept that not only is God
ONE, but that man was made in His image.
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the
woman is the glory of the man." 1 Corinthians 11:7, KJV.
So what three distinct aspects of mankind could each possibly be
perceived as independently sentient?
Well, the mind of a man could be perceived as independently sentient.
And so could his heart, and his soul. A man is composed of heart, mind,
and soul.
Now, everywhere in the entire depth and bredth of Scripture, we can
apply this understanding. Father, Son, and Spirit as Heart, Mind, and
Soul. Now, this is where "God's Image" theology of the Godhead really
stands out, is in understanding the inner workings of God Himself. Just
as human beings interact within themselves from heart to mind to soul,
so also does God, only we say Father Son and Spirit.
So I will use some simple substitution to highlight how well this really
works. Hopefully from the sheer volume of examples where this works,
you can see that indeed, this works in every single situation where we
can see a scriptural distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit:
********************************************************************
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John
1:14, KJV.
And the mind of God became incarnate and walked among us (and we beheld
his glory, the glory as of the Will wich proceeds from the heart of
God,) full of grace and truth.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up
straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were
opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from
heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased." Matthew 3:16, 17, KJV.
And the incarnate Will of God, when he was baptized, went up straightway
out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw
the Soul of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a
voice (being the Heart of God) from heaven, saying, This is my beloved
Will, in whom I am well pleased.
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee,
O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid
these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good
in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my
Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he
to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:25-27,
KJV.
At that time the Mind-of-God answered and said, I thank thee, O
Heart-of-God, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these
things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Heart-of-God: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things
are delivered unto me of the Heart-of-God: and no man knoweth the
Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God; neither knoweth any man the
Heart-of-God, save the Mind-of-God, and he to whomsoever the Mind-of-God
will reveal him.
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of
man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 12:32, KJV.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Mind-of-God, it shall be
forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Soul-of-God, it shall
not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:19, KJV.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Heart-of-God, and of the Mind-of-God, and of the Soul-of-God
"For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD
said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make
thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself
calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the
common people heard him gladly." Mark 12:36, 37, KJV.
For David himself said by the Soul-of-God, The Heart-of-God said to the
Mind-of-God, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy
footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he
then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no,
not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but
the Father." Mark 13:32, KJV.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which
are in heaven, neither the Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God.
"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the
wilderness," Luke 4:1, KJV.
And the Mind-of-God being full of the Soul-of-God returned from Jordan,
and was led of His Soul into the wilderness,
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts
unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly
Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke
11:13, KJV.
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Heart-of-God share His Soul with them
that ask him?
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten
Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath
declared him." John 1:18, KJV.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only Mind-of-God, which is in the
bosom of the Heart-of-God, he hath declared him.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his
Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the
world through him might be saved. He that believeth on
him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18, KJV.
For the Heart-of-God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Mind-of-God, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life. For the Heart-of-God sent not his Mind-of-God into the
world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be
saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth
not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Mind-of-God.
"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of
God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into
his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting
life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see
life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:34-36,
KJV.
For he whom the Heart-of-God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for
God giveth not the Soul-of-God by measure unto him. The Heart-of-God
loveth the Mind-of-God, and hath given all things into his hand. He that
believeth on the Mind-of-God hath everlasting life: and he that
believeth not the Mind-of-God shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh
hitherto, and I work." John 5:17, KJV.
But the Mind-of-God answered them, My Heart-of-God worketh hitherto, and
I work.
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of
himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things
soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For
the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things
that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works
than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth
up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son
quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man,
but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all
men should honour the Son, even as they honour the
Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the
Father which hath sent him." John 5:19-23, KJV.
Then answered the Mind-of-God and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, The Mind-of-God can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth
the Heart-of-God do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth
the Mind-of-God likewise. For the Heart-of-God loveth the Mind-of-God,
and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him
greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Heart-of-God
raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Mind-of-God
quickeneth whom he will. For the Heart-of-God judgeth no man, but hath
committed all judgment unto the Mind-of-God: That all men should honour
the Mind-of-God, even as they honour the Heart-of-God. He that honoureth
not the Mind-of-God honoureth not the Heart-of-God which hath sent him.
********************************************************************
Now, I have looked, and searched, and poured over the scriptures, I have
read from the cover of Genesis to the cover of Revelation searching for
a situation where doing the above substitution does not work, and I
cannot find one.
If you can find one, PLEASE TELL ME!
Clearly, God has said that He made man in His image. Does that mean
skin and bones? NO! God is a Spirit! Obviously God is not referring
to physical characteristics when He says that He made man in His image.
Does God simply mean that man will be a rational being? No! God's
reason is so far above ours, that we are like mere beasts, reasoning out
ways to attain our next meal.
When God says that He made man in His own image, He is referring to the
fact that man is a creature of heart, mind, and soul just like God is a
being of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Clearly, to my mind, the "God's Image" theology of the Godhead is vastly
superior to all others which have come before. It fits the scriptural
revelation better than all the others, and instead of merely stating
that "they do interact" as Trinity doctrine does, it further sheds light
on the 'how' and the 'why' of their interactions.
So what does this say about Trinity doctrine, is it wrong? Well, no.
Except inasmuch as each of the three aspects of the Godhead are labeled
'persons.' Trinity doctrine is not *wrong* just incomplete, or in the
technical sense of the word: inadequate. Trinity doctrine tells us
nothing to shed light on the nature of God except what is boldly
apparent: God is revealed in three aspects, and there is only One God.
What I understand that others do not, is that the original use of the
term 'persons' in Trinitarian doctrine was not meant to imply
independent personalities, or disparate personas. It was actually used
in a more 'legal' sense to describe 'entities' appearing distinct in the
writ. But some Christians have taken the term "persons" and through no
fault of the authors of the Trinity doctrine, now imagine a polytheistic
pantheon of God. That is obviously wrong, and one of the reasons I call
Trinity doctrine 'inadequate.'
Instead, God's Image theology of the Godhead explains everything, fits
every passage in scripture, is contradicted but no passage of scripture,
and offers a deeper understanding of the inner workings of God.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 11:23:11 AM |
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Anithing a believer imagines in the process of creating the god
in his mind. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "RedFox" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 04:27:18 PM |
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In article
<psalmsmith-F00987.03505409082007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
psalmsmith <psalmsmith@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Now, let's examine what God has revealed to us in His written word,
Quite definitely PLONK!
wottalottacrap
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 07:36:39 PM |
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RedFox wrote:
In article
<psalmsmith-F00987.03505409082007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
psalmsmith <psalmsmith@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Now, let's examine what God has revealed to us in His written word,
===>NOTHING.
There is no eveidence of any "God" nor of any such "written word",
only a big lie that man-produced writings are the "word of God". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 03:22:28 AM |
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In article
<psalmsmith-F00987.03505409082007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
psalmsmith <psalmsmith@nc.rr.com> wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Now, let's examine what God has revealed to us in His written word, and
see if we can come up with an answer to this bewildering array of
doctrines and theologies.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the
cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping
thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in
his own image, in the image of God created he him; male
and female created he them." Genesis 1:26-27, KJV.
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, He also
created mankind. When He created mankind, He created us in His image.
This should tell us that any accurate theology of the nature of God
should in some fundamental way resemble the nature of man. Not because
God resembles man, but because God made man to resemble Himself.
The problem with the existing theologies of the nature of God, is that
none of them can be said to truly resemble the nature of man. Man is
not a trinity of three persons. Man is not a singular entity that acts
in a series of disparate personas. A man is not simultaneously two
separate persons such as his own father and his own son.
Man is a singular persona. He is one personality, a single being. Much
like man, God is said to be ONE:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
Deuteronomy 6:4, KJV.
Some theologies of the nature of God make Jesus Christ 'another' God.
However, God Himself says that this is impossible:
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his
redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the
last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6, KJV.
Thus the same singular Being is God in the first, just as the same
singular Being is God in the last, and there are no others.
We know also from scripture, that we perceive God along three distinct
aspects, each of which *appear* from our perspective to be completely
and independently sentient.
The Father:
"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy
father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a
willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and
understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if
thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou
forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever."
1 Chronicles 28:9, KJV.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even
the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world
unto our glory:" 1 Corinthians 2:7, KJV.
The Son:
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in
favour with God and man." Luke 2:52, KJV.
The Holy Spirit:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom
the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all
things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26, KJV.
"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back
part of the price of the land?" Acts 5:3, KJV.
"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things
of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save
the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
1 Corinthians 2:10-11, KJV.
"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame
Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
1 Corinthians 12:11, KJV.
And yet, we have to reconcile that with the concept that not only is God
ONE, but that man was made in His image.
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the
woman is the glory of the man." 1 Corinthians 11:7, KJV.
So what three distinct aspects of mankind could each possibly be
perceived as independently sentient?
Well, the mind of a man could be perceived as independently sentient.
And so could his heart, and his soul. A man is composed of heart, mind,
and soul.
These are the three things that 'make up' a human being -- take any one
of them separately (and yes, they are all distinct) and any one of them
can be said (in a way) to describe "the whole man."
A man's heart can be said - in a way - to describe the WHOLE man. A
man's mind/body/strength/faculties can be said - in a way - to describe
the WHOLE man, and likewise his soul.
And yet even though all three are obviously distinct, and a man would
not be complete without all three.
Is this not the same mystery we face when attempting to describe the
Godhead?
The Scripture says of Jesus Christ: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness
of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:9, KJV. Can it not also be said of
myself that my entire person can be said to rest in my mind? And yet I
also have a heart, and a soul.
So also then, my entire person expresses forth from my heart, and my
entire person rests in my soul. Heart, mind, and soul therefore, are
like the three dimentions of a being, in the same way that a cube has
length, width, and depth.
Now, everywhere in the entire depth and bredth of Scripture, we can
apply this understanding. Father, Son, and Spirit as Heart, Mind, and
Soul. Now, this is where "God's Image" theology of the Godhead really
stands out, is in understanding the inner workings of God Himself. Just
as human beings interact within themselves from heart to mind to soul,
so also does God, only we say Father Son and Spirit.
So I will use some simple substitution to highlight how well this really
works. Hopefully from the sheer volume of examples where this works,
you can see that indeed, this works in every single situation where we
can see a scriptural distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit:
********************************************************************
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John
1:14, KJV.
And the mind of God became incarnate and walked among us (and we beheld
his glory, the glory as of the Will wich proceeds from the heart of
God,) full of grace and truth.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up
straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were
opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from
heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased." Matthew 3:16, 17, KJV.
And the incarnate Will of God, when he was baptized, went up straightway
out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw
the Soul of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a
voice (being the Heart of God) from heaven, saying, This is my beloved
Will, in whom I am well pleased.
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee,
O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid
these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good
in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my
Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he
to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:25-27,
KJV.
At that time the Mind-of-God answered and said, I thank thee, O
Heart-of-God, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these
things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Heart-of-God: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things
are delivered unto me of the Heart-of-God: and no man knoweth the
Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God; neither knoweth any man the
Heart-of-God, save the Mind-of-God, and he to whomsoever the Mind-of-God
will reveal him.
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of
man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 12:32, KJV.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Mind-of-God, it shall be
forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Soul-of-God, it shall
not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:19, KJV.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Heart-of-God, and of the Mind-of-God, and of the Soul-of-God
"For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD
said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make
thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself
calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the
common people heard him gladly." Mark 12:36, 37, KJV.
For David himself said by the Soul-of-God, The Heart-of-God said to the
Mind-of-God, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy
footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he
then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no,
not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but
the Father." Mark 13:32, KJV.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which
are in heaven, neither the Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God.
"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the
wilderness," Luke 4:1, KJV.
And the Mind-of-God being full of the Soul-of-God returned from Jordan,
and was led of His Soul into the wilderness,
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts
unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly
Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke
11:13, KJV.
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Heart-of-God share His Soul with them
that ask him?
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten
Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath
declared him." John 1:18, KJV.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only Mind-of-God, which is in the
bosom of the Heart-of-God, he hath declared him.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his
Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the
world through him might be saved. He that believeth on
him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18, KJV.
For the Heart-of-God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Mind-of-God, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life. For the Heart-of-God sent not his Mind-of-God into the
world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be
saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth
not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Mind-of-God.
"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of
God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into
his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting
life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see
life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:34-36,
KJV.
For he whom the Heart-of-God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for
God giveth not the Soul-of-God by measure unto him. The Heart-of-God
loveth the Mind-of-God, and hath given all things into his hand. He that
believeth on the Mind-of-God hath everlasting life: and he that
believeth not the Mind-of-God shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh
hitherto, and I work." John 5:17, KJV.
But the Mind-of-God answered them, My Heart-of-God worketh hitherto, and
I work.
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of
himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things
soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For
the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things
that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works
than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth
up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son
quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man,
but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all
men should honour the Son, even as they honour the
Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the
Father which hath sent him." John 5:19-23, KJV.
Then answered the Mind-of-God and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, The Mind-of-God can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth
the Heart-of-God do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth
the Mind-of-God likewise. For the Heart-of-God loveth the Mind-of-God,
and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him
greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Heart-of-God
raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Mind-of-God
quickeneth whom he will. For the Heart-of-God judgeth no man, but hath
committed all judgment unto the Mind-of-God: That all men should honour
the Mind-of-God, even as they honour the Heart-of-God. He that honoureth
not the Mind-of-God honoureth not the Heart-of-God which hath sent him.
********************************************************************
Now, I have looked, and searched, and poured over the scriptures, I have
read from the cover of Genesis to the cover of Revelation searching for
a situation where doing the above substitution does not work, and I
cannot find one.
If you can find one, PLEASE TELL ME!
Clearly, God has said that He made man in His image. Does that mean
skin and bones? NO! God is a Spirit! Obviously God is not referring
to physical characteristics when He says that He made man in His image.
Does God simply mean that man will be a rational being? No! God's
reason is so far above ours, that we are like mere beasts, reasoning out
ways to attain our next meal.
When God says that He made man in His own image, He is referring to the
fact that man is a creature of heart, mind, and soul just like God is a
being of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Clearly, to my mind, the "God's Image" theology of the Godhead is vastly
superior to all others which have come before. It fits the scriptural
revelation better than all the others, and instead of merely stating
that "they do interact" as Trinity doctrine does, it further sheds light
on the 'how' and the 'why' of their interactions.
So what does this say about Trinity doctrine, is it wrong? Well, no.
Except inasmuch as each of the three aspects of the Godhead are labeled
'persons.' Trinity doctrine is not *wrong* just incomplete, or in the
technical sense of the word: inadequate. Trinity doctrine tells us
nothing to shed light on the nature of God except what is boldly
apparent: God is revealed in three aspects, and there is only One God.
What I understand that others do not, is that the original use of the
term 'persons' in Trinitarian doctrine was not meant to imply
independent personalities, or disparate personas. It was actually used
in a more 'legal' sense to describe 'entities' appearing distinct in the
writ. But some Christians have taken the term "persons" and through no
fault of the authors of the Trinity doctrine, now imagine a polytheistic
pantheon of God. That is obviously wrong, and one of the reasons I call
Trinity doctrine 'inadequate.'
Instead, God's Image theology of the Godhead explains everything, fits
every passage in scripture, is contradicted but no passage of scripture,
and offers a deeper understanding of the inner workings of God.
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 06:35:34 AM |
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On Aug 9, 5:32 am, gatekeeper <gatekeeper.eastg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 9, 1:50 am, psalmsmith <psalmsm...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
I wondered how long it would take the psalmsmith to reintroduce his
very own heresy! He and I were discussing this subject back in the
spring of the year, when psalmsmith all of a sudden took a sabatical,
and dissapeared until recently when he bombed into the group as
Freefall, and more recently as Gunner Freedom! Seems that you can
change the name, but you cannot change the music that is being piped.
The question is, "Will the Children dance?"
Randy, where are you? Chuck, where are you? Vera, where are you?
Will any of you now tell psalmsmith that his heresy is no better than
Glenn's! Will you hound him from post to post, and yell and scream
about his destroying the fellowship. Or did his time of fighting on
your side make him an ally? The old, "My enemies enemy is my friend
and ally?"
Maybe all that really matters to you is to fight Glenn! It does not
really have anything to do with the Truth! That was just a convienent
cover story, like in a good spy novel, or a bad government coverup.
Maybe you like his music, and the dance steps feel ok! In fairness to
Glenn, maybe you should learn to dance with him also, since Glenn is a
Future Tribulationist! Much closer to you that the wicked preterist
that haunt these hallowed halls of sanctified debate.
Where are you stalwarts of the Truth? Or is Truth subject to the
wiles of men, still bought off with 30 pieces of Silver! Silver
tongues and Silver bullets should take care of all the heretics. Like
Gunner would say, " Lock and Load! Acquire your Targets, gentlemen!
This Dance is ready to begin!"
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
Whosoever will, may come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 05:48:02 AM |
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psalmsmith wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Simple. God has no nature since god was created in the minds of early man
and passed down from generation to generation.
The same thing applies to the thousands of other gods, meaning 'not the
Christian one'.
Now, let's examine what God has revealed to us in His written word, and
see if we can come up with an answer to this bewildering array of
doctrines and theologies.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the
cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping
thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in
his own image, in the image of God created he him; male
and female created he them." Genesis 1:26-27, KJV.
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, He also
created mankind. When He created mankind, He created us in His image.
This should tell us that any accurate theology of the nature of God
should in some fundamental way resemble the nature of man. Not because
God resembles man, but because God made man to resemble Himself.
The problem with the existing theologies of the nature of God, is that
none of them can be said to truly resemble the nature of man. Man is
not a trinity of three persons. Man is not a singular entity that acts
in a series of disparate personas. A man is not simultaneously two
separate persons such as his own father and his own son.
Man is a singular persona. He is one personality, a single being. Much
like man, God is said to be ONE:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
Deuteronomy 6:4, KJV.
Some theologies of the nature of God make Jesus Christ 'another' God.
However, God Himself says that this is impossible:
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his
redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the
last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6, KJV.
Thus the same singular Being is God in the first, just as the same
singular Being is God in the last, and there are no others.
We know also from scripture, that we perceive God along three distinct
aspects, each of which *appear* from our perspective to be completely
and independently sentient.
The Father:
"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy
father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a
willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and
understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if
thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou
forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever."
1 Chronicles 28:9, KJV.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even
the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world
unto our glory:" 1 Corinthians 2:7, KJV.
The Son:
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in
favour with God and man." Luke 2:52, KJV.
The Holy Spirit:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom
the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all
things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26, KJV.
"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back
part of the price of the land?" Acts 5:3, KJV.
"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things
of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save
the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
1 Corinthians 2:10-11, KJV.
"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame
Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
1 Corinthians 12:11, KJV.
And yet, we have to reconcile that with the concept that not only is God
ONE, but that man was made in His image.
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the
woman is the glory of the man." 1 Corinthians 11:7, KJV.
So what three distinct aspects of mankind could each possibly be
perceived as independently sentient?
Well, the mind of a man could be perceived as independently sentient.
And so could his heart, and his soul. A man is composed of heart, mind,
and soul.
Now, everywhere in the entire depth and bredth of Scripture, we can
apply this understanding. Father, Son, and Spirit as Heart, Mind, and
Soul. Now, this is where "God's Image" theology of the Godhead really
stands out, is in understanding the inner workings of God Himself. Just
as human beings interact within themselves from heart to mind to soul,
so also does God, only we say Father Son and Spirit.
So I will use some simple substitution to highlight how well this really
works. Hopefully from the sheer volume of examples where this works,
you can see that indeed, this works in every single situation where we
can see a scriptural distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit:
********************************************************************
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John
1:14, KJV.
And the mind of God became incarnate and walked among us (and we beheld
his glory, the glory as of the Will wich proceeds from the heart of
God,) full of grace and truth.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up
straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were
opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from
heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased." Matthew 3:16, 17, KJV.
And the incarnate Will of God, when he was baptized, went up straightway
out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw
the Soul of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a
voice (being the Heart of God) from heaven, saying, This is my beloved
Will, in whom I am well pleased.
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee,
O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid
these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good
in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my
Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he
to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:25-27,
KJV.
At that time the Mind-of-God answered and said, I thank thee, O
Heart-of-God, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these
things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Heart-of-God: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things
are delivered unto me of the Heart-of-God: and no man knoweth the
Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God; neither knoweth any man the
Heart-of-God, save the Mind-of-God, and he to whomsoever the Mind-of-God
will reveal him.
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of
man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 12:32, KJV.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Mind-of-God, it shall be
forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Soul-of-God, it shall
not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:19, KJV.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Heart-of-God, and of the Mind-of-God, and of the Soul-of-God
"For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD
said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make
thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself
calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the
common people heard him gladly." Mark 12:36, 37, KJV.
For David himself said by the Soul-of-God, The Heart-of-God said to the
Mind-of-God, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy
footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he
then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no,
not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but
the Father." Mark 13:32, KJV.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which
are in heaven, neither the Mind-of-God, but the Heart-of-God.
"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the
wilderness," Luke 4:1, KJV.
And the Mind-of-God being full of the Soul-of-God returned from Jordan,
and was led of His Soul into the wilderness,
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts
unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly
Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke
11:13, KJV.
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Heart-of-God share His Soul with them
that ask him?
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten
Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath
declared him." John 1:18, KJV.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only Mind-of-God, which is in the
bosom of the Heart-of-God, he hath declared him.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his
Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the
world through him might be saved. He that believeth on
him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18, KJV.
For the Heart-of-God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Mind-of-God, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life. For the Heart-of-God sent not his Mind-of-God into the
world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be
saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth
not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Mind-of-God.
"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of
God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into
his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting
life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see
life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:34-36,
KJV.
For he whom the Heart-of-God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for
God giveth not the Soul-of-God by measure unto him. The Heart-of-God
loveth the Mind-of-God, and hath given all things into his hand. He that
believeth on the Mind-of-God hath everlasting life: and he that
believeth not the Mind-of-God shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh
hitherto, and I work." John 5:17, KJV.
But the Mind-of-God answered them, My Heart-of-God worketh hitherto, and
I work.
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of
himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things
soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For
the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things
that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works
than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth
up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son
quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man,
but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all
men should honour the Son, even as they honour the
Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the
Father which hath sent him." John 5:19-23, KJV.
Then answered the Mind-of-God and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, The Mind-of-God can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth
the Heart-of-God do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth
the Mind-of-God likewise. For the Heart-of-God loveth the Mind-of-God,
and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him
greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Heart-of-God
raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Mind-of-God
quickeneth whom he will. For the Heart-of-God judgeth no man, but hath
committed all judgment unto the Mind-of-God: That all men should honour
the Mind-of-God, even as they honour the Heart-of-God. He that honoureth
not the Mind-of-God honoureth not the Heart-of-God which hath sent him.
********************************************************************
Now, I have looked, and searched, and poured over the scriptures, I have
read from the cover of Genesis to the cover of Revelation searching for
a situation where doing the above substitution does not work, and I
cannot find one.
If you can find one, PLEASE TELL ME!
Clearly, God has said that He made man in His image. Does that mean
skin and bones? NO! God is a Spirit! Obviously God is not referring
to physical characteristics when He says that He made man in His image.
Does God simply mean that man will be a rational being? No! God's
reason is so far above ours, that we are like mere beasts, reasoning out
ways to attain our next meal.
When God says that He made man in His own image, He is referring to the
fact that man is a creature of heart, mind, and soul just like God is a
being of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Clearly, to my mind, the "God's Image" theology of the Godhead is vastly
superior to all others which have come before. It fits the scriptural
revelation better than all the others, and instead of merely stating
that "they do interact" as Trinity doctrine does, it further sheds light
on the 'how' and the 'why' of their interactions.
So what does this say about Trinity doctrine, is it wrong? Well, no.
Except inasmuch as each of the three aspects of the Godhead are labeled
'persons.' Trinity doctrine is not *wrong* just incomplete, or in the
technical sense of the word: inadequate. Trinity doctrine tells us
nothing to shed light on the nature of God except what is boldly
apparent: God is revealed in three aspects, and there is only One God.
What I understand that others do not, is that the original use of the
term 'persons' in Trinitarian doctrine was not meant to imply
independent personalities, or disparate personas. It was actually used
in a more 'legal' sense to describe 'entities' appearing distinct in the
writ. But some Christians have taken the term "persons" and through no
fault of the authors of the Trinity doctrine, now imagine a polytheistic
pantheon of God. That is obviously wrong, and one of the reasons I call
Trinity doctrine 'inadequate.'
Instead, God's Image theology of the Godhead explains everything, fits
every passage in scripture, is contradicted but no passage of scripture,
and offers a deeper understanding of the inner workings of God.
.
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| User: "RedFox" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 04:28:29 PM |
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In article <46BAF08A.77FC2AF9@netvigator.com>, wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Simple. God has no nature since god was created in the minds of early man
and passed down from generation to generation.
The same thing applies to the thousands of other gods, meaning 'not the
Christian one'.
Absolutely
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 11:26:17 AM |
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bob young wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Simple. God has no nature since god was created in the minds of early man
and passed down from generation to generation.
===>Some of those gods are being used as models by believers who create
a personal god in their own minds according to their own ideas of what a
"god" should be like. -- L.
The same thing applies to the thousands of other gods, meaning 'not the
Christian one'.
===>There are as many gods as their are believers, due to their
individual differences. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Gunny Freedom" |
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| Title: Re: What is the nature of God? |
09 Aug 2007 11:45:22 AM |
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In article <46bb33e1$0$16382$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
Libertarius <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
bob young wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
"God's Image" theology of the Godhead
Today, we are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of doctrines
concerning the nature of God. The venerable Trinity, Oneness theology,
Begotten Son theology; if you can think of it, there is probably a
doctrine existing already.
Simple. God has no nature since god was created in the minds of early man
and passed down from generation to generation.
===>Some of those gods are being used as models by believers who create
a personal god in their own minds according to their own ideas of what a
"god" should be like. -- L.
The same thing applies to the thousands of other gods, meaning 'not the
Christian one'.
===>There are as many gods as their are believers, due to their
individual differences. -- L.
With this kind of opposition, seriously, who needs friends? {:-)
--
Gunny Freedom's Blog: http://libertyline.blogspot.com/
Gunny's Hangout: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php "Liberty's Price"
Become a Rifleman: http://appleseedinfo.org/
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