Religions > Bible > What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god)
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"RainLover" |
| Date: |
01 Mar 2005 11:37:41 AM |
| Object: |
What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 08:31:57 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com...
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep
looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
To understand the concept, a person should watch the movie Harvey, starring
James Stewart, who believes in a giant invisible rabbit named -- what
else -- Harvey. A atheist can believe in God without any problem, as long
as he realizes
that God really doesn't exist. Even though Harvey doesn't really exist, in a
sense Harvey does exist. When I think about believing in God I get this
warm fuzzy feeling, even though there ain't no such animal. So I can
empathize with God-belief without going completely bonkers and actually
believing in God. Plus when anyone tries to tell me about God, they might as
well be speaking a foeign language, since they have no idea about my very
private relationship with my non-existent God, and they appear very foolish
indeed, because my God has no connection with their fantastic claims.
Instead my God is a giant rabbit.
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| User: "torch" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 03:00:06 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com...
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
For me and I suspect for a lot of atheists the idea of a "belief" in
anything is a bit alien. For instance, I dont "believe" in evolution - its
just the best explanation that fits the available evidence.More evidence
accumulates daily, the effect of which reinforces or refines the
explanation - some evidence may even challenge the explanation - if enough
of this accumulates then at some point someone may come up with a better
explanation that encompasses both the reinforcing and the contradictory
evidence.
I find it very hard to imagine any evidence for which the best explanation
is an all knowing all powerful being.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:24:33 AM |
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:00:06 -0000, "torch" <torch@torch.com> wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com...
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
For me and I suspect for a lot of atheists the idea of a "belief" in
anything is a bit alien. For instance, I dont "believe" in evolution - its
just the best explanation that fits the available evidence.More evidence
accumulates daily, the effect of which reinforces or refines the
explanation - some evidence may even challenge the explanation - if enough
of this accumulates then at some point someone may come up with a better
explanation that encompasses both the reinforcing and the contradictory
evidence.
I find it very hard to imagine any evidence for which the best explanation
is an all knowing all powerful being.
Omni characteristics self-destruct from internal contradictions.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: |
04 Mar 2005 05:24:55 AM |
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torch wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com...
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
For me and I suspect for a lot of atheists the idea of a "belief" in
anything is a bit alien.
not at all, I believe in decent human beings
For instance, I dont "believe" in evolution - its
just the best explanation that fits the available evidence.
.........religionists repeat with this nonsense in the face of overwhelming
scientific eveidence that grows by the day.
Last month a team of British and Japanese scientists discovered new life forms
11 miles down in the Pacific Ocean. Now some god made these timy things that
live in the dark at that depth! What for?
aaaaah I forgot - 'your god moves in mysterious ways'.
Very convenient
Bob
Humanist Brit
Hong Kong
More evidence
accumulates daily, the effect of which reinforces or refines the
explanation - some evidence may even challenge the explanation - if enough
of this accumulates then at some point someone may come up with a better
explanation that encompasses both the reinforcing and the contradictory
evidence.
I find it very hard to imagine any evidence for which the best explanation
is an all knowing all powerful being.
.
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| User: "Yef" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 01:03:30 PM |
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I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 10:40:49 PM |
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"Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1109703810.828215.163570
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
Sounds like the making of a muslim suicide bomber...
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: |
02 Mar 2005 02:34:40 AM |
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.....................A miracle
Yef wrote:
I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:07:45 AM |
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On 1 Mar 2005 11:03:30 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
No. You are dead! :)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 03:36:04 PM |
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On 1 Mar 2005 11:03:30 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
You know not what you wish for. LOL. 20 chicks crowded into one room
and only one guy to boss around and ***** to. Sounds like a
nightmare.
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| User: "Yef" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 05:11:08 PM |
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Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 08:04:12 PM |
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On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first one.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 08:56:38 AM |
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Kate wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first
one.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything
with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
Then await my 25th comming!
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 02:07:08 PM |
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On 2 Mar 2005 06:56:38 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first
one.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything
with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
Then await my 25th comming!
Be sure to bring a towel. I ain't cleaning it up.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:22:04 AM |
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On 2 Mar 2005 14:07:08 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 2 Mar 2005 06:56:38 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first
one.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything
with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
Then await my 25th comming!
Be sure to bring a towel. I ain't cleaning it up.
Splatter painting......
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Yef" |
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| Title: The Dynamics of Running a Harem (was Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god)) |
02 Mar 2005 05:03:48 PM |
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Kate wrote:
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first
one.
Oh, you modern women ... I the king shall enlighten you.
I would simply keep them in small groups in separate rooms, for
instance
3 to a room. When 3 syncronize, that's OK, two are kept waiting
all the better. I would use attention and potions that so each
group is 'syncronized' to a different time.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything
with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
This is actually a good point. In each room of 3, one of the women
would be bisexual. The other two would make her their '*****',
so to speak, in my absense. After using her for unsatisfying
gratification, the other two would be raring and ready to go
with me. To make things fair between the two non-bisexuals,
the order of servicing would be swapped between the first two.
Monday : hetero 1
Tuesday : hetero 2
Wednesday : bisexual
then later:
Monday : hetero 2
Tuesday : hetero 1
Wednesday : bisexual
You see? There is always an engineering solution to every
problem.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: |
04 Mar 2005 06:40:26 AM |
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Kate wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first one.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
LOL !!!!
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:11:21 AM |
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On 1 Mar 2005 20:04:12 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 15:11:08 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ahem, these are not *American* women.
Anyway, ever hear of that thing called pecking order?
And any serious conflicts would be worked out in the
Jello pit, followed by celebrations.
LOL, so says the bottom man on the totem pole.
Hehehehe....especially when several of the ladies have strap-ons!
Plus : I would use a simple scheduling system,
basically two per night 6 days a week with one day for rest.
Actually I would need 24 women for a complete month.
You put lots of women in one room and they syncronize. You still are
out of commision for a week every month, if you survive the first one.
Yes, they do, and no he won't.
And you didn't specify bi-sexual women, so you won't get anything with
23 ***** women staring at you from the other side of the room.
If you do specifiy bi-sexual women, you don't get anything anyway.
They got each other, why do they need you?
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Once I had this all set up, WOW would I be a believer.
Honey, if you manage to arrange all that and not only survive it but
emerge with a grin on your face, I'll believe you are a god.
(mirth redoubled)
Cheers, Kate!
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:08:37 AM |
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On 1 Mar 2005 15:36:04 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 1 Mar 2005 11:03:30 -0800, "Yef" <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
I can tell you quite simply what it will require :
my own harem.
Give me a room with 20 damsels of good quality
and I will believe in your silly god person.
Because THEN I will know I am SAVED.
You know not what you wish for. LOL. 20 chicks crowded into one room
and only one guy to boss around and ***** to. Sounds like a
nightmare.
And Islam indicates 72.......(whew) :)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 07:53:41 PM |
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In article <5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com>, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'd settle for a bit of consistency.
I.e., when all the world's religions finally agree amongst themselves,
I might find reason to take another look at their claims.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 09:35:03 AM |
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:53:41 -0800, Frank J Warner
<warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote:
In article <5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com>, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'd settle for a bit of consistency.
I.e., when all the world's religions finally agree amongst themselves,
I might find reason to take another look at their claims.
-Frank
Why think so BIG, Frank... why not when ONE RELIGION can agree within
itself!???
James, Seattle
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 10:09:02 AM |
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In article <18nb21lq14ok9ik21eq22oq7aaguu5uv3n@4ax.com>, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:53:41 -0800, Frank J Warner
<warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote:
In article <5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com>, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep
looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'd settle for a bit of consistency.
I.e., when all the world's religions finally agree amongst themselves,
I might find reason to take another look at their claims.
-Frank
Why think so BIG, Frank... why not when ONE RELIGION can agree within
itself!???
Good point. Irony taken. But I still maintain that the creator of
everything, the big mama-jamma, should be able to get his story
straight all over the Universe, not just in a narrow strip of land an
the eastern edge of a tiny ocean on a mediocre planet in a
run-of-the-mill solar system in a common galaxy out of 10 billion or so
other galaxies.
-Frank
--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 07:29:20 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:09:02 -0800, after pondering
deep thoughts, Frank J Warner
<warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> spake thusly:
Good point. Irony taken. But I still maintain that the creator of
everything, the big mama-jamma, should be able to get his story
straight all over the Universe, not just in a narrow strip of land an
the eastern edge of a tiny ocean on a mediocre planet in a
run-of-the-mill solar system in a common galaxy out of 10 billion or so
other galaxies.
1) He did get His story straight. What does that say
about your ability to understand?
2) You assume that there is life elsewhere. You have
no proof.
3) You also argue that He didn't get His word straight
in other parts of the universe. Since you have only
been on Earth, you wouldn't know that.
I.e., you argue like a moron.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 10:08:55 PM |
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In article <g0qc21521l4eclkrghar4fbb1fg5mu84jn@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:09:02 -0800, after pondering
deep thoughts, Frank J Warner
<warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> spake thusly:
Good point. Irony taken. But I still maintain that the creator of
everything, the big mama-jamma, should be able to get his story
straight all over the Universe, not just in a narrow strip of land an
the eastern edge of a tiny ocean on a mediocre planet in a
run-of-the-mill solar system in a common galaxy out of 10 billion or so
other galaxies.
1) He did get His story straight. What does that say
about your ability to understand?
Several billion Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans and others disagree
with you. And those are just the people who are alive today. If he got
his story so straight, why do none of those religions agree with one
another? Why were there so many different religions in the past?
Oh, my bad. They're not the One True Religion.
2) You assume that there is life elsewhere. You have
no proof.
I've seen life here. No gods, though. That says more for my assumption
than yours.
3) You also argue that He didn't get His word straight
in other parts of the universe. Since you have only
been on Earth, you wouldn't know that.
Okay. That is true. I'll settle for the parts of the Universe that I
have visited. Let's say, for instance, the United States, Vietnam,
Japan, Europe, Canada, Hong Kong, Mexico. Even among your death cult,
people in those areas can't agree on what your god has in mind.
All I'm asking for is a little consistency, a little agreement, on one
small little planet. Is that too much to ask?
I.e., you argue like a moron.
I'm feelin' the love. Truly I am.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
04 Mar 2005 10:36:39 AM |
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:53:41 -0800, Frank J Warner
<warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote:
In article <5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com>, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep looking
at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates that there
actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I know this question wasn't addressed to ME, per se, but I'll answer
too...
If the god of your particular faith truly exists and wants me to
believe in Him, then He knows what I would require... Even more than
I, myself, know.
But, I *CAN* tell you a few things that will NEVER convince me of your
god...
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'd settle for a bit of consistency.
I.e., when all the world's religions finally agree amongst themselves,
I might find reason to take another look at their claims.
Nah. Reason never enters the world of superstition.
-Frank
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 05:12:46 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:37:41 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'm with you. I wouldn't be impressed with just those things either.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 09:34:14 AM |
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:12:46 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:37:41 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'm with you. I wouldn't be impressed with just those things either.
So you are in agreement that:
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
Are NOT good enough reasons to believe in your god. Please give us a
#5 worthy of convincing us then.
James, Seattle
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
02 Mar 2005 05:20:14 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 07:34:14 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'm with you. I wouldn't be impressed with just those things either.
So you are in agreement that:
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
Are NOT good enough reasons to believe in your god. Please give us a
#5 worthy of convincing us then.
Well, I would take all those things and couple them with the fact, the fact mind
you, my God rose from the dead and walked out of his tomb for 40 days.
Now, THAT is really convincing.
It's probably the single best reason that the Christian population has grown
from 13 men 2000 years ago to a current world population of over 1 billion
people alive and well today.
Add to that the fact that no one has ever been able to reject or disprove all
that he did and said over the last 2000 years and the deal is sealed - Jesus is
Lord.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
03 Mar 2005 12:11:42 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:20:14 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 07:34:14 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
I think these 4 things pretty much cover every single person's
religious belief system today. If your god, or any god, exists, I'm
sure He / She / It can do a MUCH better job than any of these people
can.
James, Seattle
I'm with you. I wouldn't be impressed with just those things either.
So you are in agreement that:
1. Any book.
2. Any person, who believes due to reading a book and regurgitating
what the book says in order to convince me.
3. Any person who was taught about their god by other people who were
taught by other people who read it in a book.
4. Any person who has "experiences" that only that person experiences
and are aware of in their own mind.
Are NOT good enough reasons to believe in your god. Please give us a
#5 worthy of convincing us then.
Well, I would take all those things and couple them with the fact, the fact mind
you, my God rose from the dead and walked out of his tomb for 40 days.
so you would take those four things that we agree aren't good enough
reasons to believe and couple them with #1 of the four things and
THEN say it's believable???
So your #5 is "believe the book since the book is FACT".
Your lack of integrity continues to amaze me
Now, THAT is really convincing.
So for YOU... the Book is REALLY convincing, even though on my list,
'a book' is #1?
Hmmm....
It's probably the single best reason that the Christian population has grown
from 13 men 2000 years ago to a current world population of over 1 billion
people alive and well today.
Ah, THE BOOK is the reason...
The PROBLEM is, I don't believe that book. I believe that book was
written with an agenda and is about controling people and leaders
retaining power.
The "book" was made up from hundreds of stories and essays and a
handful of religion and political leaders of the day picked and chose
which books would make the final cut.
Do you think that those religious and political (often the same
people) were somehow BETTER than our religious and political leaders
today? If you think these leaders were Pure and good at heart, you
need to read a few history books about them.
Add to that the fact that no one has ever been able to reject or disprove all
that he did and said over the last 2000 years and the deal is sealed - Jesus is
Lord.
Jesus told his followers that some would not see death before he
returned... and some are still waiting 2,000 years later... do you
really think there's a 2,000 year old disciple of christ hiding in a
cave somewhere?
James, Seattle
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| User: "Ian Braidwood" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
03 Mar 2005 05:10:44 AM |
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duke wrote:
... Please give us a
#5 worthy of convincing us then.
Well, I would take all those things and couple them with the fact,
the fact mind
you, my God rose from the dead and walked out of his tomb for 40
days.
Now, THAT is really convincing.
Only convincing to those who accept it as fact. However, your
acceptance is misapplied, because you never witnessed Jesus'
resurrection. Instead, you learned it either from the Bible or from
someone else who did; so you don't actually know that it's a fact.
After all, the Bible is hardly New Scientist.
It's probably the single best reason that the Christian population
has grown
from 13 men 2000 years ago to a current world population of over 1
billion
people alive and well today.
You were claiming 2 billion a few weeks ago. Also, the history of
Christianity reveals that the ordinary person was never really
consulted about which religion they could follow, because a country
became converted when its sovereign was.
Now that we live in more democratic times and people have free choice,
they are leaving religion wholesale.
Add to that the fact that no one has ever been able to reject or
disprove all
that he did and said over the last 2000 years and the deal is sealed
- Jesus is
Lord.
Rejecting Christianity is easy and doesn't require that every claim be
disproved, only that the whole be judged generally untrue.
Besides, it isn't for people to prove every claim by every religious
group untrue, it's for you to prove your claims to the people you wish
to convince. Until then, people have a perfect right to follow their
own convictions.
(-: Ian :-)
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
03 Mar 2005 09:46:44 AM |
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On 3 Mar 2005 03:10:44 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Ian Braidwood" <diri.gini@virgin.net> spake
thusly:
duke wrote:
... Please give us a
#5 worthy of convincing us then.
Well, I would take all those things and couple them with the fact,
the fact mind
you, my God rose from the dead and walked out of his tomb for 40
days.
Now, THAT is really convincing.
Only convincing to those who accept it as fact. However, your
acceptance is misapplied, because you never witnessed Jesus'
resurrection. Instead, you learned it either from the Bible or from
someone else who did; so you don't actually know that it's a fact.
After all, the Bible is hardly New Scientist.
You have just eliminated many people that you consider
historical.
Now that we live in more democratic times and people have free choice,
they are leaving religion wholesale.
Ah, now the claim about "modern, enlightened man" and
the lie that people are leaving religion wholesale.
This has been the claim for centuries.
Rejecting Christianity is easy
Going to Hell has always been easy.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: What Would it require for an Atheist to Believe in a god? (was: chris rock: don't thank god) |
01 Mar 2005 04:12:02 PM |
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RainLover <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in
news:5p99211j7fjpqk235ufpjgs7eev7qetaih@4ax.com:
There is a big difference. I have an open mind. I have to keep
looking at the evidence, and if something shows up that indicates
that there actually is a god thing of some sort, and it continues to
appear to be
DianaC wrote:
What would you require [to believe in God]?
I thought this question worthy of it's own thread....
I'd settle for an undeniable miracle...
Like, for instance, a Christian having an original thought. :-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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