| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pro-Humanist FREELOVER" |
| Date: |
23 Jul 2003 04:03:01 PM |
| Object: |
What's Up with the Christian Bible? |
---
http://www.ghg.net/phf/disbelief/bible_what_is_it.htm
---
The bible is at best (or worst - depends on your perspective)
a scary guide for living one's life, an anthology used by faiths
of all kinds to support, in various ways, belief in Devils, Spirits,
God, Gods, Christ, Apostles of Christ, Angels, Heaven, Hell,
and all sorts of magical/mystical things.
Some religions believe it is the word of God. Most religions
use the bible as an inspiration to construct icons/demonstra-
tions to validate their faith, such as crosses, buildings, art-
work, and singing hymns-chanting-praying-kneeling, etc.
Over 40 humans wrote the bible and none of the original work
has survived to this day. The bible used by any faith is a com-
pilation of works, not only of the original writers, but also all
the interpreters and interpolators over the centuries.
Who wrote the source documents? Little historical information
is available regarding claimed authorship or historical valida-
tion on the writers of the bible. The synoptic gospels (Matthew,
Mark, Luke, and John) for example were written by Greeks
decades after the supposed Jesus would have had to have
lived based on the information within the documents them-
selves.
Who were these Greeks and where did they get their informa-
tion? Unknown, although scholarship has led to the theory that
the gospel of Mark is the basis for most of the other gospels
and a mysterious Q document as well as the wealth of myths
in the Greek, Roman, Jewish, and other cultures were also at
play.
- - -
Excerpt from chapter 15 of "The Meme Machine", by
Susan Blackmore:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198503652
"... The theologian Hugh Pyper (1998) ... argues that
Western culture is the Bible's way of making more Bibles.
And why is it so successful?
Because it alters its environment in a way that increases
the chances of its being copied. It does this, for example,
by including within itself many instructions to pass it on,
and by describing itself as indispensable to the people
who read it. It is extremely adaptable, and since much of
its content is self-contradictory it can be used to justify
more or less any action or moral stance. ..."
- - -
When were the source documents written?
Assembled based on information from a table
on page 451 and from information on holy books
on pages 451 to 453 of "Webster's New World
Book of Facts":
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028634853
Books ~Years Ago (approximate)
- - - - - - - - - - -
Books in the bible (excluding Apocrypha)
listed in order based on when books were
estimated to have been "finished"...
1. 1 Samuel ~2,900 years ago
1. 2 Samuel ~2,900 years ago
2. Amos ~2,775 to 2,750 years ago
2. Genesis ~2,750 years ago
3. Hosea ~2,732 years ago
4. Numbers ~2,850 to 2,650 years ago
4. Leviticus ~2,650 years ago
4. Deuteronomy ~2,650 years ago
5. Nahum ~2,626 years ago
6. Jeremiah ~2,604 years ago
7. Habakkuk ~2,600 years ago
8. Exodus ~2,950 to 2,586 years ago
9. 1 Kings ~2,600 to 2,550 years ago
9. 2 Kings ~2,600 to 2,550 years ago
9. Joshua ~2,550 years ago
9. Judges ~2,550 years ago
10. Lamentations ~2,586 to 2,536 years ago
11. Haggai ~2,520 years ago
11. Zechariah ~2,520 years ago
12. Ezekiel ~2,600 to ~2,500 years ago
12. Joel ~2,500 years ago
13. Ezra ~2,450 years ago
13. Nehemiah ~2,450 years ago
14. Malachi ~2,430 years ago
15. Job ~2,600 to ~2,400 years ago
16. 1 Chronicles ~2,300 years ago
16. 2 Chronicles ~2,300 years ago
17. Ruth ~ + 2,200 years ago
17. Isaiah ~ + 2,200 years ago
17. Micah ~ + 2,200 years ago
18. Obadiah ~2,600 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Jonah ~2,600 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Song of Solomon ~2,300 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Zephaniah ~2,300 to 2,200 years ago
18. Ecclesiastes ~2,200 years ago
18. Esther ~2,200 years ago
19. Daniel ~2,166 years ago
20. Proverbs ~2,350 to ~2,150 years ago
21. Psalms ~2,600 to ~2,100 years ago
22. James ~ + 1,948 years ago
23. Galatians ~1,947 years ago
24. 1 Thessalonians ~1,950 to ~1,946 years ago
24. 2 Thessalonians ~1,950 to ~1,946 years ago
25. 1 Corinthians ~1,943 years ago
25. 2 Corinthians ~1,943 years ago
26. Philemon ~1,940 to ~1,938 years ago
27. Philippians ~1,937 years ago
28. 1 Timothy ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 2 Timothy ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. Titus ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 1 Peter ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 2 Peter ~ + 1,936 years ago
29. Mark ~ + 1,930 years ago
29. Matthew ~ + 1,930 years ago
30. Luke ~1,930 to ~1,920 years ago
30. Acts ~1,930 to ~1,920 years ago
30. Jude ~1,925 to ~1,920 years ago
31. Hebrews ~1,920 to ~1,910 years ago
32. Revelation ~1,919 to ~1,904 years ago
33. John ~1,910 to ~1,900 years ago
33. 1 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
33. 2 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
33. 3 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
34. Romans ~1,880 years ago
35. Ephesians ~1,860 years ago
35. Colossians ~1,860 years ago
- - -
One comment: Hmmmm, rather odd, god's supposed silence
via the written word from 2,100 years ago to 1,950 years ago,
a 150 year "silent period" in the scriptures, supposedly the
most important time for god on earth.
Add to that the christian god's supposed silence for all of
time until 2,950 years ago, not to mention his supposed
silence for the last 1,860 years and, well, you might ponder
the possibility that the document is merely a cultural pheno-
menon of fallible humans rather than a "holy" revelation
from god . . . or not.
Don't you find it strange that the bible was written over
a period of 850 years and 100 years after the completion
of the Old Testament the son of god appears, and 50 or
so years later, the writing begins again? Wouldn't it have
been reasonable to expect god to have someone around
continuing to write per god's inspiration right up to the
birth and continuing through to the death and resurrection
of the one and only son of god - I mean, this wasn't a trip
down to your local 7-eleven we're talkin' here, we're talking
major league hell and damnation saving stuff --- BUT ---
No, Old Testament - 150 year siesta, and New Testament
takes off 20 years or so after the supposed son of god
has gone bye-bye, and here's a shocker -NO MENTION-
of the life of a Jesus Christ appears, just commentary on
a mystical Christ for a flurry of epistles for at least 20
years until the gospel of Mark is written, at the earliest,
a little over 1,930 years ago, close to *4 decades* after
the supposed Christ would've had to have been around,
per the contents of the gospel itself.
From amongst the 100s of mythmakers of the time, the
Catholic authorities in the 4th century A.D., at the behest
of Constantine, the ruler of the Roman Empire, created
a Roman State Religion - Christianity, putting together
the so-called holy christian bible ... my, the christian
god did have one tough time getting humans to construct
his holy document, didn't he/it/she/they?
Anyone find that odd and suspicious as regards claims
that the bible is god-inspired or holy? I do.
Don't you think god would have found a way to have
"In the beginning" written in the beginning? What's up
with 1st and 2nd Samuel and Amos coming before
Genesis, with the bible's ignorance of other cultures,
with the bible's lack of interest in the way the natural
world works, with the inability of god to write anything,
making it appear that the documents are human-created
myths, free of any real god whatsoever, and with the
common events of the time used to surround the myths,
with active imaginations / superstitions / hate / fear /
desperation / social-cultural conditioning the fertile
ground from which these myths sprang?
-- -- -- --
Sampling of other "holy" books (summaries, with
chronology if available) along with a few more bible
details:
Apocrypha: Old Testament appendix not in final
Hebrew canon but recognized by Roman Catholics;
also, there are disputed New Testament texts known
as Apocrypha.
Book of the Dead: Tibetan Buddhist text.
Bahgavad-Gita: Hindi "Song of the Blessed", dating
from around 2,300 years ago; supreme religious
work of Hinduism.
Book of Changes (or I Ching): Chinese book of
divination based on patterns of 6 lines (hexagrams).
Book of Common Prayer: Service book of the
Church of England and the Episcopal Church.
Book of Hours: Liturgical prayers used in
medieval Europe.
Guru Granth Sahib: Holy book of Sikhism.
Hebrew Bible: Sacred book of Judaism.
Koran (or Quran): Sacred book of Islam, revealed
from 1,390 to 1,368 years ago.
Mahabharata: Sanskrit Hindu epic from 2,300
years ago.
New Testament: Written in Greek, canonized by
Catholics over 1,600 years ago. See above for
dates.
Old Testament: First 5 books referred to as the
Pentateuch (by Christians), as the Torah (by Jews).
Contains 39 books (in Christianity), 24 books (in
Judaism). See above for dates.
Ramayama: Sanskrit epic circa 2,300 years ago.
- - -
(the following info on Hammurabi comes from
First Civilizations - Cultural Atlas for Young People),
Stele of Hammurabi's law code (~3,760 years
ago): Hammurabi became the King of Babylon
~3,790 years ago. The upper part of the basalt
pillar shows the king in prayer before the seated
Shamash, the sun god and god of justice. Shamash
is winged and is also wearing the divine horned
crown. He is holding in his right hand a sun's ray.
The lower part of the stele is inscribed in cuneiform
and Hammurabi's 282 laws carved in 49 vertical
columns. The opening words describe the king's
wish "to cause justice to prevail in the land, to
destroy the wicked and the evil, that the strong may
not oppress the weak."
The idea of punishment found in the Old Testament
of the Bible - "Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for
tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (Deuteronomy
chapter 19, verse 21) - also occurs in Hammurabi's
code.
- - -
Talmud: Two most important works of post-biblical
Jewish literature.
Tao Te Ching: Most influential Taoist book written
by Lao Zi as he left China for the west (dated to over
2,200 years ago).
Tripitaka: Canonical texts of Theravada Buddhism.
Upanishad: One of a collection of Hindu sacred
treatises, composed from 2,800 to 2,200 years ago.
Veda: Most sacred book of Hindu scriptures, dated
from 3,500 to 4,000 years ago.
- - -
~~~
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://www.ghg.net/phf
(Freethinking Realist Exploring
Expressive Liberty, Openness,
Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality)
~~~
.
|
|
| User: "Dick" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? |
24 Jul 2003 08:09:03 AM |
|
|
--
Sincerely & thanks,
*****
"Pro-Humanist FREELOVER" <phf@ghg.net> wrote in message
news:3f1ef815_2@news.ghg.net...
---
http://www.ghg.net/phf/disbelief/bible_what_is_it.htm
---
The bible is at best (or worst - depends on your perspective)
a scary guide for living one's life, an anthology used by faiths
of all kinds to support, in various ways, belief in Devils, Spirits,
God, Gods, Christ, Apostles of Christ, Angels, Heaven, Hell,
and all sorts of magical/mystical things.
Some religions believe it is the word of God. Most religions
use the bible as an inspiration to construct icons/demonstra-
tions to validate their faith, such as crosses, buildings, art-
work, and singing hymns-chanting-praying-kneeling, etc.
Over 40 humans wrote the bible and none of the original work
has survived to this day. The bible used by any faith is a com-
pilation of works, not only of the original writers, but also all
the interpreters and interpolators over the centuries.
Who wrote the source documents? Little historical information
is available regarding claimed authorship or historical valida-
tion on the writers of the bible. The synoptic gospels (Matthew,
Mark, Luke, and John) for example were written by Greeks
decades after the supposed Jesus would have had to have
lived based on the information within the documents them-
selves.
Who were these Greeks and where did they get their informa-
tion? Unknown, although scholarship has led to the theory that
the gospel of Mark is the basis for most of the other gospels
and a mysterious Q document as well as the wealth of myths
in the Greek, Roman, Jewish, and other cultures were also at
play.
- - -
Excerpt from chapter 15 of "The Meme Machine", by
Susan Blackmore:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198503652
"... The theologian Hugh Pyper (1998) ... argues that
Western culture is the Bible's way of making more Bibles.
And why is it so successful?
Because it alters its environment in a way that increases
the chances of its being copied. It does this, for example,
by including within itself many instructions to pass it on,
and by describing itself as indispensable to the people
who read it. It is extremely adaptable, and since much of
its content is self-contradictory it can be used to justify
more or less any action or moral stance. ..."
- - -
When were the source documents written?
Assembled based on information from a table
on page 451 and from information on holy books
on pages 451 to 453 of "Webster's New World
Book of Facts":
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028634853
Books ~Years Ago (approximate)
- - - - - - - - - - -
Books in the bible (excluding Apocrypha)
listed in order based on when books were
estimated to have been "finished"...
1. 1 Samuel ~2,900 years ago
1. 2 Samuel ~2,900 years ago
2. Amos ~2,775 to 2,750 years ago
2. Genesis ~2,750 years ago
3. Hosea ~2,732 years ago
4. Numbers ~2,850 to 2,650 years ago
4. Leviticus ~2,650 years ago
4. Deuteronomy ~2,650 years ago
5. Nahum ~2,626 years ago
6. Jeremiah ~2,604 years ago
7. Habakkuk ~2,600 years ago
8. Exodus ~2,950 to 2,586 years ago
9. 1 Kings ~2,600 to 2,550 years ago
9. 2 Kings ~2,600 to 2,550 years ago
9. Joshua ~2,550 years ago
9. Judges ~2,550 years ago
10. Lamentations ~2,586 to 2,536 years ago
11. Haggai ~2,520 years ago
11. Zechariah ~2,520 years ago
12. Ezekiel ~2,600 to ~2,500 years ago
12. Joel ~2,500 years ago
13. Ezra ~2,450 years ago
13. Nehemiah ~2,450 years ago
14. Malachi ~2,430 years ago
15. Job ~2,600 to ~2,400 years ago
16. 1 Chronicles ~2,300 years ago
16. 2 Chronicles ~2,300 years ago
17. Ruth ~ + 2,200 years ago
17. Isaiah ~ + 2,200 years ago
17. Micah ~ + 2,200 years ago
18. Obadiah ~2,600 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Jonah ~2,600 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Song of Solomon ~2,300 to ~2,200 years ago
18. Zephaniah ~2,300 to 2,200 years ago
18. Ecclesiastes ~2,200 years ago
18. Esther ~2,200 years ago
19. Daniel ~2,166 years ago
20. Proverbs ~2,350 to ~2,150 years ago
21. Psalms ~2,600 to ~2,100 years ago
22. James ~ + 1,948 years ago
23. Galatians ~1,947 years ago
24. 1 Thessalonians ~1,950 to ~1,946 years ago
24. 2 Thessalonians ~1,950 to ~1,946 years ago
25. 1 Corinthians ~1,943 years ago
25. 2 Corinthians ~1,943 years ago
26. Philemon ~1,940 to ~1,938 years ago
27. Philippians ~1,937 years ago
28. 1 Timothy ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 2 Timothy ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. Titus ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 1 Peter ~ + 1,936 years ago
28. 2 Peter ~ + 1,936 years ago
29. Mark ~ + 1,930 years ago
29. Matthew ~ + 1,930 years ago
30. Luke ~1,930 to ~1,920 years ago
30. Acts ~1,930 to ~1,920 years ago
30. Jude ~1,925 to ~1,920 years ago
31. Hebrews ~1,920 to ~1,910 years ago
32. Revelation ~1,919 to ~1,904 years ago
33. John ~1,910 to ~1,900 years ago
33. 1 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
33. 2 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
33. 3 John ~1,910 to 1,900 years ago
34. Romans ~1,880 years ago
35. Ephesians ~1,860 years ago
35. Colossians ~1,860 years ago
- - -
One comment: Hmmmm, rather odd, god's supposed silence
via the written word from 2,100 years ago to 1,950 years ago,
a 150 year "silent period" in the scriptures, supposedly the
most important time for god on earth.
Add to that the christian god's supposed silence for all of
time until 2,950 years ago, not to mention his supposed
silence for the last 1,860 years and, well, you might ponder
the possibility that the document is merely a cultural pheno-
menon of fallible humans rather than a "holy" revelation
from god . . . or not.
Don't you find it strange that the bible was written over
a period of 850 years and 100 years after the completion
of the Old Testament the son of god appears, and 50 or
so years later, the writing begins again? Wouldn't it have
been reasonable to expect god to have someone around
continuing to write per god's inspiration right up to the
birth and continuing through to the death and resurrection
of the one and only son of god - I mean, this wasn't a trip
down to your local 7-eleven we're talkin' here, we're talking
major league hell and damnation saving stuff --- BUT ---
No, Old Testament - 150 year siesta, and New Testament
takes off 20 years or so after the supposed son of god
has gone bye-bye, and here's a shocker -NO MENTION-
of the life of a Jesus Christ appears, just commentary on
a mystical Christ for a flurry of epistles for at least 20
years until the gospel of Mark is written, at the earliest,
a little over 1,930 years ago, close to *4 decades* after
the supposed Christ would've had to have been around,
per the contents of the gospel itself.
From amongst the 100s of mythmakers of the time, the
Catholic authorities in the 4th century A.D., at the behest
of Constantine, the ruler of the Roman Empire, created
a Roman State Religion - Christianity, putting together
the so-called holy christian bible ... my, the christian
god did have one tough time getting humans to construct
his holy document, didn't he/it/she/they?
Anyone find that odd and suspicious as regards claims
that the bible is god-inspired or holy? I do.
Don't you think god would have found a way to have
"In the beginning" written in the beginning? What's up
with 1st and 2nd Samuel and Amos coming before
Genesis, with the bible's ignorance of other cultures,
with the bible's lack of interest in the way the natural
world works, with the inability of god to write anything,
making it appear that the documents are human-created
myths, free of any real god whatsoever, and with the
common events of the time used to surround the myths,
with active imaginations / superstitions / hate / fear /
desperation / social-cultural conditioning the fertile
ground from which these myths sprang?
-- -- -- --
Sampling of other "holy" books (summaries, with
chronology if available) along with a few more bible
details:
Apocrypha: Old Testament appendix not in final
Hebrew canon but recognized by Roman Catholics;
also, there are disputed New Testament texts known
as Apocrypha.
Book of the Dead: Tibetan Buddhist text.
Bahgavad-Gita: Hindi "Song of the Blessed", dating
from around 2,300 years ago; supreme religious
work of Hinduism.
Book of Changes (or I Ching): Chinese book of
divination based on patterns of 6 lines (hexagrams).
Book of Common Prayer: Service book of the
Church of England and the Episcopal Church.
Book of Hours: Liturgical prayers used in
medieval Europe.
Guru Granth Sahib: Holy book of Sikhism.
Hebrew Bible: Sacred book of Judaism.
Koran (or Quran): Sacred book of Islam, revealed
from 1,390 to 1,368 years ago.
Mahabharata: Sanskrit Hindu epic from 2,300
years ago.
New Testament: Written in Greek, canonized by
Catholics over 1,600 years ago. See above for
dates.
Old Testament: First 5 books referred to as the
Pentateuch (by Christians), as the Torah (by Jews).
Contains 39 books (in Christianity), 24 books (in
Judaism). See above for dates.
Ramayama: Sanskrit epic circa 2,300 years ago.
- - -
(the following info on Hammurabi comes from
First Civilizations - Cultural Atlas for Young People),
Stele of Hammurabi's law code (~3,760 years
ago): Hammurabi became the King of Babylon
~3,790 years ago. The upper part of the basalt
pillar shows the king in prayer before the seated
Shamash, the sun god and god of justice. Shamash
is winged and is also wearing the divine horned
crown. He is holding in his right hand a sun's ray.
The lower part of the stele is inscribed in cuneiform
and Hammurabi's 282 laws carved in 49 vertical
columns. The opening words describe the king's
wish "to cause justice to prevail in the land, to
destroy the wicked and the evil, that the strong may
not oppress the weak."
The idea of punishment found in the Old Testament
of the Bible - "Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for
tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (Deuteronomy
chapter 19, verse 21) - also occurs in Hammurabi's
code.
- - -
Talmud: Two most important works of post-biblical
Jewish literature.
Tao Te Ching: Most influential Taoist book written
by Lao Zi as he left China for the west (dated to over
2,200 years ago).
Tripitaka: Canonical texts of Theravada Buddhism.
Upanishad: One of a collection of Hindu sacred
treatises, composed from 2,800 to 2,200 years ago.
Veda: Most sacred book of Hindu scriptures, dated
from 3,500 to 4,000 years ago.
- - -
~~~
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://www.ghg.net/phf
(Freethinking Realist Exploring
Expressive Liberty, Openness,
Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality)
~~~
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have
entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them
that love him.
Isa 64:4
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit
searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which
is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with
spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of
no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we
have the mind of Christ.
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Charles P" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? |
24 Jul 2003 10:12:29 AM |
|
|
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
24 Jul 2003 12:25:08 PM |
|
|
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
Libertarius
====================
.
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|
|
| User: "stone" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
26 Jul 2003 09:42:53 PM |
|
|
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message news:<e42881e9d3bcfaf48d6be523f634ccbb@news.scbiz.com>...
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
Look at this: [Think a lot about verse 1:29 below.]
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that
perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of
God.
1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of
the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where
[is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom
of this world?
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by
wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to
save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek
after wisdom:
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a
stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and
Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men;
and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not
many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are
called]:
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the
world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the
world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which
are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to
bring to nought things that are:
1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
Libertarius
====================
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| User: "M. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
24 Jul 2003 04:46:31 PM |
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Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
????????
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
Please pardon me for interrupting.
Regarding your "HE claims" assertion, note that God told Ananias in Acts
9:11,15 that Paul was indeed God's chosen instrument for taking his name
to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
Return to God, believing in his Son Jesus in faith, and have eternal
life.
M. Clark
Libertarius
====================
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
25 Jul 2003 11:32:11 AM |
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"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
????????
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
Please pardon me for interrupting.
Regarding your "HE claims" assertion, note that God told Ananias
===>WRONG!
The FACT is, there is a STORY, a FABLE about "God" having done that!
It only proves that the author favored Saul/Paul of Tarsus over
James, the brother of Jesus.
in Acts
9:11,15 that Paul was indeed God's chosen instrument for taking his name
to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
===>So he claimed!
He was marketing his new-fangled mystery cult among the Gentiles,
and if some renegade Jews accepted his nonsense, he welcomed them,
too.
.
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| User: "galia" |
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| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
25 Jul 2003 12:39:14 PM |
|
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"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:908d7ca214c6594010c153ac4094420e@news.scbiz.com...
"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of
God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
????????
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
========================>>>>> LOOK LIB: Here we have a classic case of how
much
you enjoy to misinterprete scripture ....
Natural men make decision's according to natural law and according to
individual knowledge...
this can differ tremendously from person to person. Scientific data is
unable and always will be,
to explain the unknown! This is objective reality....
If you really want to be taken serious about the above verse, than you have
to look at the whole
content, which includes " because they are spiritually discerned'. This
means, as an unbeliever
YOU ARE UNABLE to understand the 'Spirit of GOD".
Now don't tell me this is a fable, because there is absolutely no evidence
whatsoever, to support
this claim; IT IS JUST YOUR BELIEF!
Who are you anyway?
galia
In this case
Please pardon me for interrupting.
Regarding your "HE claims" assertion, note that God told Ananias
===>WRONG!
The FACT is, there is a STORY, a FABLE about "God" having done that!
It only proves that the author favored Saul/Paul of Tarsus over
James, the brother of Jesus.
in Acts
9:11,15 that Paul was indeed God's chosen instrument for taking his name
to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
===>So he claimed!
He was marketing his new-fangled mystery cult among the Gentiles,
and if some renegade Jews accepted his nonsense, he welcomed them,
too.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
25 Jul 2003 06:44:05 PM |
|
|
galia wrote:
"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:908d7ca214c6594010c153ac4094420e@news.scbiz.com...
"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of
God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
????????
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
========================>>>>> LOOK LIB: Here we have a classic case of how
much
you enjoy to misinterprete scripture ....
Natural men make decision's according to natural law and according to
individual knowledge...
this can differ tremendously from person to person. Scientific data is
unable and always will be,
to explain the unknown!
===>WOW! What an astute observation!@
Indeed, it takes authors of fairy tales to "explain the unknown",
and credulous BELIEVERS to accept the fables as explanations.
This is objective reality....
If you really want to be taken serious about the above verse, than you have
to look at the whole
content, which includes " because they are spiritually discerned'. This
means, as an unbeliever
YOU ARE UNABLE to understand the 'Spirit of GOD".
===>Which simply means, if you disagree with Pauline foolishness,
MORIA, insread of WISDOM, SOPHIA. You have to be a
MORON FOR CHRIST, otherwise you'll never go to the
Pauline "heaven"!
Now don't tell me this is a fable, because there is absolutely no evidence
whatsoever, to support
this claim; IT IS JUST YOUR BELIEF!
===>There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that ot is
anything BUT a FABLE!
Who are you anyway?
===>One who is reminding you of the TRUTH!
DON'T CONFUSE FICTION WITH REALITY!
L:ibertarius
==========
galia
In this case
Please pardon me for interrupting.
Regarding your "HE claims" assertion, note that God told Ananias
===>WRONG!
The FACT is, there is a STORY, a FABLE about "God" having done that!
It only proves that the author favored Saul/Paul of Tarsus over
James, the brother of Jesus.
in Acts
9:11,15 that Paul was indeed God's chosen instrument for taking his name
to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
===>So he claimed!
He was marketing his new-fangled mystery cult among the Gentiles,
and if some renegade Jews accepted his nonsense, he welcomed them,
too.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
27 Jul 2003 04:21:42 PM |
|
|
galia wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
news:3F21C0C5.730A1130@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
galia wrote:
"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:908d7ca214c6594010c153ac4094420e@news.scbiz.com...
"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit
of
God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because
they are
spiritually discerned.
This verse is customarily used in an attempt to silence persons
pointing out the utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma
and fables. Of course it all seems like cult rubbish! That's
because you don't have the cult's secret decoder ring!
===>But, ironically, what it says is true!
LOOK:
NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative
conclusions
subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific data.
The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of
Tarsus,
a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
????????
of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls
elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
========================>>>>> LOOK LIB: Here we have a classic case of
how
much
you enjoy to misinterprete scripture ....
Natural men make decision's according to natural law and according to
individual knowledge...
this can differ tremendously from person to person. Scientific data is
unable and always will be,
to explain the unknown!
===>WOW! What an astute observation!@
I am glad you realize that..
Indeed, it takes authors of fairy tales to "explain the unknown",
and credulous BELIEVERS to accept the fables as explanations.
No, it takes the supernatural what YOU choose to call 'fables'.
This is objective reality....
If you really want to be taken serious about the above verse, than you
have
to look at the whole
content, which includes " because they are spiritually discerned'. This
means, as an unbeliever
YOU ARE UNABLE to understand the 'Spirit of GOD".
===>Which simply means, if you disagree with Pauline foolishness,
MORIA, insread of WISDOM, SOPHIA. You have to be a
MORON FOR CHRIST, otherwise you'll never go to the
Pauline "heaven"!
=========================>>>>>>>>Which simply means that you are fabricating
things...
===>Is THAT supposed to be a rebuttal?
Now don't tell me this is a fable, because there is absolutely no
evidence
whatsoever, to support
this claim; IT IS JUST YOUR BELIEF!
===>There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that it is
anything BUT a FABLE!
======================================>>>>>>>>>>I know, this is the only
explanation you can produce in your unbelieving state, but don't forget
'your unbelief' is still
just a 'belief'. You have NO evidence to support your belief, your'e just
guessing...
Who are you anyway?
===>One who is reminding you of the TRUTH!
DON'T CONFUSE FICTION WITH REALITY!
======================================>>>>>>> there is NO truth in you...
You limit yourself to wordly reality;
===>WOW! Came around in full circle. Back to the original point.
The ONLY REALITY that exists is what you and your founder Sail/Paul
of Tarsus consider "wordly reality".
The other is pure FANASY/FICTION belonging in the TWILIGHT ZONE.
it changes every so often...
There is a whole lot more out there, which can't be explained by sience; but
it's there
and this is NOT a fairytale ..
===>If it cannot be "explained by science", it certainlyu cannot be EXPLAINED
by making up fables!
But some people are like children, cannot tell fantasy from reality, fiction
from
fact. That is why we have movie ratings.
Libertarius
==========
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
27 Jul 2003 04:26:55 PM |
|
|
"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
"M. Clark" wrote:
Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Charles P wrote:
"*****" <rlbush@echomatrix.net> wrote in message
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of
God: for > > > they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are > > > spiritually discerned. > > > > This verse is
customarily used in an attempt to silence persons > > pointing out the
utter lack of any logic in Christian dogma > > and fables. Of course it
all seems like cult rubbish! That's > > because you don't have the
cult's secret decoder ring! > > ===>But, ironically, what it says is
true! > LOOK: > NATURAL MEN use logic and reason to arrive at tentative
conclusions > subject to confirmation by objective reality, scientific
data. > The one who "receiveth" the insane ramblings of Saul/Paul of
Tarsus, > a renegade Jews and traitor to the cause of Jewish freedom and
independence, his teachings HE claims to be "things of the Spirit
???????? > of God", must be an UNNATURAL MAN indeed. The type he calls
elsewhere
the "MORON FOR CHRIST"!
Please pardon me for interrupting.
Regarding your "HE claims" assertion, note that God told Ananias
===>WRONG!
The FACT is, there is a STORY, a FABLE about "God" having done that!
It only proves that the author favored Saul/Paul of Tarsus over
James, the brother of Jesus.
Thank you for your opinion.
===>It is a FACT.
in Acts
9:11,15 that Paul was indeed God's chosen instrument for taking his name
to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
===>So he claimed!
He was marketing his new-fangled mystery cult among the Gentiles,
and if some renegade Jews accepted his nonsense, he welcomed them,
too.
Again, thank you for your opinion.
===>Again, it is a FACT.
.
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| User: "maf 1029" |
|
| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
26 Jul 2003 04:23:02 PM |
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:35:29 -0600, (M. Clark)
wrote:
Thank you again for proving the "unrepentant" part.
IDOLATROUIS M. CLARK HAS UNREPENTENTLY LIED ABOUT THE FOLLOWING
VERSES:
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT
Romans 14 (entire chapter)
Galatians 4:21-31 (especially v 24)
1 Corinthians 5 multiple times (entire chapter)
Romans 12:3
1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
Leviticus 18:22
Romans 1:25-27
Romans 1:28-32
Leviticus 26: 36-37
Genesis 1: 3-5, 14-19, 21-27
Genesis 2: 4-9, 7-19
1 Timothy 5: 6-7
1 Corinthians 7:21
Revelation 14:11
Matthew 8:29
Matthew 5:22
Luke 16: 22-24
maf and dog, AA #1954, EAC Cruise Director and Lounge Pianist,
respectively
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What's Up with the Christian Bible? -- UNNATURAL MAN |
27 Jul 2003 04:30:29 PM |
|
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maf 1029 wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:35:29 -0600, (M. Clark)
wrote:
Thank you again for proving the "unrepentant" part.
IDOLATROUIS M. CLARK HAS UNREPENTENTLY LIED ABOUT THE FOLLOWING
VERSES:
===>He is no different from other biblicists. Like a child, he
believes what he was told by his clerics.
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT
Romans 14 (entire chapter)
Galatians 4:21-31 (especially v 24)
1 Corinthians 5 multiple times (entire chapter)
Romans 12:3
1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
Leviticus 18:22
Romans 1:25-27
Romans 1:28-32
Leviticus 26: 36-37
Genesis 1: 3-5, 14-19, 21-27
Genesis 2: 4-9, 7-19
1 Timothy 5: 6-7
1 Corinthians 7:21
Revelation 14:11
Matthew 8:29
Matthew 5:22
Luke 16: 22-24
maf and dog, AA #1954, EAC Cruise Director and Lounge Pianist,
respectively
.
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