| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
09 Nov 2007 08:46:09 AM |
| Object: |
When were the Last Days? |
Hi,
I will say before beginning this message, that you shouldn't
bother to respond with attempts to avoid what I have to say
here. I will not honor lies with a response, nor attempts
to wiggle out of simple Scriptural facts, nor attacks on me
while you claim I'm ignoring your words and attacking you,
when you are responding by ignoring the text and attacking
me. Forget it, I won't play your game.
If you wish to respond on point, that's fine, but ignoring
what I post now, will get you ignored.
I know that after reading this, many will be tempted to say;
"Well, the last days began in the 1st century, but they are
still going on now."
But the reality is, that will be something you just made up
on the fly, to avoid admitting to what you just saw and to
try to forget about Scripture and find a way to make it all
about you, no matter what. But we are not called to vanity.
We are called to honor God's word.
Now I promise I will get to the Scriptural proof, but first
let me say, that each of you, when you hear it in church,
you know, the preacher saying, "We're the generation
that's in the last days!", that you all shout "Amen!".
And yet, when what I have to say to you is shown to you,
or people ask questions about Matthew 24:34, all of the
sudden, you claim that "generation" means "an age", or,
"the Jewish race".
The problem is, that if you say it's "an age", then it blows
apart your whole claim that, "We're the generation that's
in the last days!", to which you have been saying, "Amen!".
Of course, my favorite is, "What Jesus REALLY meant was
the generation alive at the time these things happen.".
Why? Because it assumes that the person saying that can
zoom back in time and read Jesus' mind.
It is also my favorite, because when they claim to be
telling me "what Jesus REALLY meant", they are, at
the same time, admitting to what He ACTUALLY DID
say, since they feel compelled to try to explain it away.
The truth is, that there are 24 instances in which the NT
records the phrase, "this generation" with the original
Koine Greek words behind it being, "houtos genea"
(this generation).
Why is this important? Because in none of the other
23 instances in which the phrase "this generation" has
the Greek phrase "houtos genea" behind it, do the
Futurists claim that it means any other generation,
nor "the Jewish race", nor "Well, it could be translated
as 'an age' ya know!". Those are all garbage responses
and they know it! It is just in this ONE INSTANCE that
the Futurists claim that it means something different
and work as hard as they can, to try to claim that
"Jesus REALLY meant something else entirely!".
Isn't it interesting how they think they have better words
for Jesus to speak than He did?
Furthermore, once they are shown this, they try to go
even further and attacking other passages in which this
phrase is used, twisting and bending many passages now,
to try to suit their doctrine. Just tear the Bible apart
into shreds, to save the doctrine, right?!
But the fact is, that even Futurist translators still
translate it as what??? Hmmm??? How do they
STILL translate it?
That's right, you guessed it! They translate it as,
"THIS GENERATION", because they KNOW that's
what Jesus said. If it "really meant" something
else, then it would be translated that way, yet
they don't!
So why do you people keep trying to claim to be more
knowledgable than all translators, throughout time?
And why do you not claim it means, "this age" in all
of the other instances in the New Testament, in which
the Greek phrase "houtos genea" is used, or even
"haute genea"?
And why do you ignore the fact that the Greek word
for "age" is "aion" and not "genea"? And why do you
ignore the fact that when that Greek word was ever
used that way (which would have been rare), it was
meant to imply the time period of the generation alive?
And regardless of how hard you try, you cannot claim
to be honest and continually try to claim that words
like "soon" mean "thousands of years away" and then
stand up in church and claim that "Jesus is coming
soon!" and mean that you expect Him any minute now!
And YOU DO DO THAT!!!
FYI, Matthew 24:34 is probably more often than any
other, the reason that people leave the Christian faith
and the reason that preachers leave the pulpit. Because
they know that yes, Jesus said that He was returning
within the same generation! And there is no amount
of double talk that will make that fact go away! And
no matter how hard you try, you will not change what
He said! And no matter how desperate you are to
make those words change, your vanity does not win!
It is NOT that everyone else is stupid and you were
the only one brilliant enough to figure out what
"Jesus REALLY meant"!
And again, by trying to tell people that He "really"
meant something else, you are admitting that what
He ACTUALLY SAID is just as it appears!
And btw, with all of your talk about reading the Bible
and just believing the words, when it says for example,
that He will stand on a mountain while it splits apart,
why do you work so hard at not just believing His
statement in Matthew 24:34, just as it is written?
Now you can go ahead and be hypocrites and tell me
that "God has 1,000 year days", while you:
a) Claim that God isn't bound by time.
b) Claim that there is no darkness with God
and yet, night is the only thing that separates
the days.
c) Fail to apply your rule universally, by, for example,
applying it to Jeremiah's 70 years and claiming
it was really supposed to be 25,200,000 years.
The truth is, that Peter stated a simple figure of speech
to let people know to be patient.
The truth is, that Peter was writing to them because they
had told him that people were scoffing and asking, "Hey,
where is Jesus, huh?!". Thus, when Peter said that in the
last days, scoffers would come, he was telling them that
they were already in the last days, because these scoffers
has come! How could anyone have scoffed, if Jesus had
not promised to return within that same generation and
had, as you Futurists claim, left the idea of thousands
of years might go by first? Hello??? DUH?!?!?!
Now as to the subject of this post, what is it? Well,
it is that the NT tells us repeatedly that both Jesus
and the Apostles taught a return within that same
generation! And you see, even though almost all
Bibles in many places there, read as "shall be",
or "will come", the Greek word behind it in many
instances, is "mello", which means, "being about
to be". I.e., "It's about to happen"!
So let's look at some verses and see what Jesus
taught. And let us not that everything He said
put is out in the open that He was talking to that
generation and would return to that generation.
Read the passages AS THEY ARE WRITTEN and not
with your doctrinal glasses on though! Put yourself
in the place of those hearing the words and stop
thinking you're smarter than the Apostles who heard
His words and went on to preach His return within
that same generation! Vanity has no place in one
who claims to seek the truth and neither do doctrinal
biases, brothers and sisters!
Also, I did not quote duplicates from other Gospels,
to make the study shorter.
"But whereunto shall I liken this generation?
It is like unto children sitting in the markets,
and calling unto their fellows." - Matthew 11:6
Jesus looked around Him and said this. Do you really
think He was talking specifically about your time?
"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with
this generation, and shall condemn it: because
they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and,
behold, a greater than Jonah is here."
- Matthew 12:41
Now no matter how hard the Futurists will try to claim
that this means that it's about an age, because it includes
"the men of Nineveh", the fact is, that Jesus saying that,
excludes any people but the very generation He walked
in, from being part of the statement, "this generation".
It is the word "with" that tells us that. You see,
He didn't say, "The men of Nineveh will rise up
with you people and will judge.".
No! What He said was, "The men of Nineveh will
rise up *_WITH_* THIS GENERATION..."!
"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment
with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she
came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear
the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than
Solomon is here." - Matthew 12:42
Now note, the "Queen of the South" was from a
different generation. And Jesus said that she would
rise up "WITH this generation", thereby speaking of
the same generation He was speaking to! He was
NOT talking right past the people in front of Him,
just to tell YOU something, OH VAIN ONE!
"Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other
spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in
and dwell there: and the last state of that man is
worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto
this wicked generation." - Matthew 12:45
It is clear here that He is speaking to the people
who are standing in front of Him.
"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation." - Matthew 23:36
Jesus said this in the Temple, to the scribes and
Pharisees, just before His discourse on the mount.
Now the truth is, that Futurists do not say that
He meant a different generation, nor some age,
etc., when they see this verse. That is, not until
it is brought up and they realize that if they admit
the truth here that they already knew was true
about this verse, that it means that Mat 24:34
is saying the same thing. So they invent their
little word games on the fly, making it up as they
go and then pretend to be all scholarly in their
approach. The reality is, that they would be
laughed at in real life and they don't dare say
this crap in public. But here, being paper tigers,
full of keyboard courage, they try to pretend
that I'm evil, when I laugh at them for what
would not be tolerated in real life. Could it be
that maybe the difference between us is, that
I'm not some made up caricature when in
usenet, as they are? Could it be that my arguments
actually make sense, while theirs consist of their
imagined up scenarios and playing dodge ball
with words? Could that be why they run away
and then enter other threads, trying to change
the subject by pasting in what they first said
elsewhere and pretending that the rebuttal
never happened, trying over and over again
to start at first base, pretending that I never
said a word in response? Yea, that's it alright! :)
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
And here we have Jesus, laying His credibility on
the line, telling them that the same generation
would see all of it happen! And even though
the events are historically listed for the Futurists,
they just don't care! Instead of being honest
about it, they claim that I'm treating historical
documents as if they're Scripture. But who was
it that requested the information? Oh yea, that's
right! The Futurists did! The truth is, in their
ignorance of history, they figured it couldn't
be done and then when it was, they couldn't be
honest about it and decided instead, to claim that
I was doing something wrong by providing what
they asked for!
The fact is, that you all know what Jesus said here.
The fact is, that this verse is why most Christians
leave the faith!
The fact is, that this verse is probably responsible
for more preachers leaving the pulpit than any
other part of Scripture!
Now why do you think that is? Do you think it's
because none of them are as smart as you and
just didn't know that they were supposed to add
words to Scripture, to make it say what they want,
like you people do, when you falsely claim it says,
"the generation alive at the time these things happen",
which is not what Jesus said?
No people, they knew all about that garbage and
used to teach it to people! But they knew it was
a lie, just as you do! And not realizing that
Futurism is just another doctrine and is not
Scripture itself, they saw no alternative and so,
they left. Thanks for all your help, huh?!
Jesus said what He said. Like it or not, He did say it!
"And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why
doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say
unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this
generation." - Mark 8:12
Now according to the Futurists, this must mean
that no one would ever see any signs from God,
from that point on, since they claim that generation
means "age".
But wait, don't they claim that "generation" means
the last generation before Jesus returns, which
does indeed make it a normal generation?
Oh, wait, I got it! It's whatever's convenient at
the time! That's right! I forgot that Futurists
get to make things up on the fly and then claim
that it's the other person who doesn't know
their Bible! :)
"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and
of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation;
of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when
he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy
angels." - Mark 8:38
Now here we see that Jesus did indeed tie His return
to that same generation. Play all the word games
you want, but it is a fact!
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not
pass, till all these things be done." - Mark 13:30
See above.
"And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken
the men of this generation?" - Luke 7:31a
See above.
"And when the people were gathered thick together,
he began to say, This is an evil generation: they
seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it,
but the sign of Jonah the prophet." - Luke 11:29
The sign of Jonah the prophet? Hmmm....
Now what did Jesus mean by that??? Could He
have been talking about the three days and nights
that Jonah was in the belly of the great fish???
Of course He was! Now whom did He say would
see that sign? Didn't He say TO THEM very clearly,
"this generation" ???
Now who did He mean? Well, since He died and rose
in that same generation, fulfilling that sign, guess what?
HE MEANT THE SAME GENERATION ALIVE AT THE TIME!!!
Yes folks, THIS generation means the people alive
at the time it is said, just like it does when you
claim that "We're the generation that's in the last days!"
and then try to weasel your way out of it, claiming it
means something else, when cornered by Jesus' words!
"That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed
from the foundation of the world, may be required
of this generation." - Luke 11:50
"From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias,
which perished between the altar and the temple:
Verily I say unto you; It shall be required of this
generation." - Luke 11:51
Now while someone may try to claim that this verse
somehow shows that Jesus meant that all of those
generations were part of the phrase "this generation",
which sounds stupid to begin with, the fact is, that
He listed a time frame and then said that the people
He was speaking to, would have their blood required
of them.
But why??? Some may try to argue that this makes
God unjust. But does it? What did this generation
do, that would have all of that blood required of
them?
This is just another weak argument that people make,
to try to avoid the fact of the words that Jesus used.
You see, they don't want to deal with what the phrase
was and so, they try to distract you with something
else. Now the discussion is no longer about the
wording. It's about Pastor Dave saying that God is
not just, which will be the next attack by the foolish
person that tries to distract you. Plus they can now
claim I called them a fool and distract with that, etc..
The fact is, the argument is foolish.
You see, Jesus was summing it all up, since they
were the generation that would see the culmination
of it all. And that was His point in the parable in
Matthew 21 about the owner of the vineyard.
You see, it was the same people who killed the Son,
that paid the penalty, not some generation of people
who would live thousands of years later!
Now if you want to talk about God being unjust,
look at what this Futurist is saying, when he
argues that I'm saying that God is unjust, because
the generation that killed the Son pays the price.
He is saying that what is supposed to happen,
is that all of those prophets were killed, from
the time of the OT prophets and then the Son
was killed and God does nothing! He just lets
it go! And instead, God decides to come in
vengeance against a generation, thousands of
years later, that had nothing to do with it!!!
And does He do this to take vengeance on those
who killed His Son, which, whether you like it
or not, the Bible says was the Jews (Acts 5:30)?
NO!!! Instead, He lets the Christians go through
a terrible tribulation (Mat 24:29a) and then comes
to save the Jews who still reject Him!!!
So there ya have it folks! The Futurists idea of
a just God!
1) Unbelieving Jews kill His prophets.
2) Unbelieving Jews kill His Son.
3) Almost 2,000 years and still counting go by.
4) No vengeance by the Lord upon those who
actually killed His Son, even though He said
there would be.
5) At some point in the future, Christians get to
go through a terrible world wide slaughter.
6) Jesus comes back riding a cloud and saves
the unbelieving Jews.
So it looks like the Jews killed the prophets and
the Son of God and for all of that sin, it's the
Christians who are persecuted and the Jews
get to do what they want and then when they
are facing destruction, Jesus comes to save them,
because He just loves those who spit in His face
just ever so much more than believers!!!
Please! Do NOT tell me about "justice"! And do NOT
tell me that I'm the one who makes God unjust! (:
"But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected
of this generation." - Luke 17:25
Now which generation rejected Him and crucified Him?!
Or do you wish to be so damn vain that you think
just refusing to believe is what He meant, instead
of Him being rejected by those who saw Him and
crucified by them (Acts 5:30)?
Is just saying no to Jesus a worse rejection than
saying no and then crucifying Him?!
Are you really that vain?! Is your head really that big?!
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass
away, till all be fulfilled." - Luke 21:32
What a perfect way to end this lesson! :)
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
"Most christians testify to the truth that their
own lives were a hell until they placed their lives
in the hands of the Creator. Heaven for them is
being in the presence of that Creator and now their
lives are filled with a love and peace that was not
there before. They feel they have found a door out
of the hell they were in and a responsibility to
show others where that door is. This often comes
across to the non-believer as "looking down" on
them, but as a wise man once said... 'We're just
beggars showing others where the bread is'.
- Eric Fisher
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: 1st Day, Last Days, and the Day of the Lord |
11 Nov 2007 03:40:35 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:els8j31f947ogv1gsqqt0bir60nq5u571s@4ax.com...
The Day of The Lord
A key to understanding many of the prophecies referring to the day of the
Lord or "that day" is a clear understanding of the day of the Lord. It
begins with the Lord's return for His millennial reign (2 Pet 3:10) followed
by the second resurrection among the rest of the dead: "And I saw thrones,
and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them: and I saw the souls of
them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had
received his mark on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years (but the rest of the dead lived not
again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first
resurrection" (Rev 20:4-5). The day of the Lord is the thousand year
millennium, which is followed by eternity with a new heaven and earth: "And
I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth
were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev 21:1).
The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath: "Behold, the day of the Lord
comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and
he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and
the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to
shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their
iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay
low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than
fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake
the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of
the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger" (Is 13:9-13): "And I
saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat on him was
called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he
had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed
with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And
the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in
fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of
iron: and he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty
God" (Rev. 19:11-15).
The day of the Lord is also the day of His rest: "For he spoke in a certain
place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from
all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom
it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (Heb 4:4-8).
The day of the Lord is the seventh millennial day (Heb 4:4,7), and what is
prophesied along with the seventh millennial day is the first 6 millennial
days, which make the seventh day the seventh: The first 1000-year day is the
day in which Adam died at the age of 930 years (Gen 5:5): "But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day
that you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17) The last or latter
days, the three 1000-year days at the end of the week, are the time of the
Messiah (Acts 2:17, Heb 1:2): "And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the
mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations [goyim:
uncircumcised] shall flow unto it" (Is 2:2), and the uncircumcised have
been flowing into the Lord's house "free from the law of sin and death" (Rom
8:2) since His first coming. To the Jews, Hosea also prophesied of these
last three days: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will
raise us up, and we shall live in his sight" (Hos 6:2). The day of the Lord
is the last millennial day of the last days: "But, beloved, be not ignorant
of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a
thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as
some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that
any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of
the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall
pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet
3:8-10).
Prophecies become clearer when we read them within the framework of seven
millennial days between the fall of Adam and the final, white throne
judgment with "the last days" or "latter days" being the three between the
Lord's first coming and the judgment and with the day of the Lord, being
also the day of His wrath and the day of His rest, being the last thousand
year day: "For yet seven days, ... and every living substance that I have
made will I destroy from off the face of the earth" (Gen 7:4).
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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