| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
09 Sep 2006 03:10:39 PM |
| Object: |
WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
There are many different religions and literally thousands of God beliefs.
There many religions such as Judaism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims,
Shintoists, Confusions, Christians, Catholics etc.. There are thousands of
variations in the beliefs of each of these religions and hundreds of minor
religions.
No real god has ever announced directly from his heaven that he is the real
god and all the others are fakes or even that the variations of beliefs
within his own religion are false. There are a plentitude of different
religious documents that proclaim the validity of various Gods.
WHICH IF ANY ARE CORRECT???
Major religious texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
Adi Granth and Dasam Granth - canonical scripture of the Sikhs
Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the TRUE one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are any objective evidence.
They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and further copied,
over the centuries, by errant men with their own personal and selfish
motivations. All of these documents, except the Book of Morman, were hand
written and hand copied over the centuries before the invention of the
printing press. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy of any
of these. The objective evidence is that they are a mixture of inaccurate
history, myth, folklore and legends.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio. If there is a real God, why does he not announce to the
whole world from his heaven, by at least an equally effective means, that he
is the real God and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us
clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of
vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents compiled by dozens of
different religions and hundreds of unauthenticated men.
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:26:33 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:08:25 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
No it hasn't. In fact, all evidence to be offered demands the existence of God.
There is nothing but unsupported fables and myths that God does not exist.
===>Ah, poor baby Duckie!
You cannot prove your Invisible Friend exists,
so you demand that others must prove he does not.
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God. It's funny
how you say "I can't see him and therefore he isn't." Not very bright.
FUNNEEEE! -- L.
Yes you are, miss libby.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Dichard Rawkins" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 04:12:36 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
<u3t8g25rh4ao9scomrpmdg94bjrni0l4c5@4ax.com>
===>Ah, poor baby Duckie!
You cannot prove your Invisible Friend exists,
so you demand that others must prove he does not.
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God.
Well, nothing YOU will admit.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2769
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| User: "Dichard Rawkins" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 04:49:49 PM |
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duke <dumbgucko32@cox.net> wrote in message
<u3t8g25rh4ao9scomrpmdg94bjrni0l4c5@4ax.com>
It's funny
how you say "I can't see him and therefore he isn't."
Nobody says that. That is just a straw man that idiot Christians put up to make
themselves feel good.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2769
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| User: "Father Haskell" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 05:58:29 PM |
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duke wrote:
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God.
Only Duke could ***** up a sentence like that.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
16 Sep 2006 06:39:18 AM |
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On 10 Sep 2006 15:58:29 -0700, "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God.
Only Duke could ***** up a sentence like that.
Forget the sentence - think in terms of your eternal future.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:40:32 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:08:25 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
No it hasn't. In fact, all evidence to be offered demands the existence of God.
There is nothing but unsupported fables and myths that God does not exist.
===>Ah, poor baby Duckie!
You cannot prove your Invisible Friend exists,
so you demand that others must prove he does not.
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God. It's funny
how you say "I can't see him and therefore he isn't." Not very bright.
===>You claim some people say that, but no one does!
"Not very bright", indeed, ON YOUR PART.
You hide your ignorance and inability to offer any evidence
of your "Invisible Friend" you call "God", so you demand that
others must prove he does not exists.
That is just plain STUPID, Duckie! -- L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
16 Sep 2006 06:38:37 AM |
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:40:32 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God. It's funny
how you say "I can't see him and therefore he isn't." Not very bright.
===>You claim some people say that, but no one does!
"Not very bright", indeed, ON YOUR PART.
You hide your ignorance and inability to offer any evidence
of your "Invisible Friend" you call "God", so you demand that
others must prove he does not exists.
That is just plain STUPID, Duckie! -- L.
Not when I consider I'm on this earth for 70 years or so, and I'm thinking about
my eternity in the loving arms of almighty God. As opposed to the same time
frame with the tickling fingers of the white hot flames of hell nipping at the
cheeks of my butt.
I have better sense than you, libby.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
16 Sep 2006 03:30:11 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:40:32 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
But you have NO-THING to support your myth that there is no God. It's funny
how you say "I can't see him and therefore he isn't." Not very bright.
===>You claim some people say that, but no one does!
"Not very bright", indeed, ON YOUR PART.
You hide your ignorance and inability to offer any evidence
of your "Invisible Friend" you call "God", so you demand that
others must prove he does not exists.
That is just plain STUPID, Duckie! -- L.
Not when I consider I'm on this earth for 70 years or so, and I'm thinking about
my eternity in the loving arms of almighty God. As opposed to the same time
frame with the tickling fingers of the white hot flames of hell nipping at the
cheeks of my butt.
I have better sense than you, libby.
===>Your "sense" is pure NONSENSE.
Have you considered how a non-physical "soul"
could experience a physical process such as
combustion and pain? ;-) -- L.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:02:44 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:10:39 -0400, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Are you one of those that believes that unsupported myth that there is no
almighty God?
===>Some people never outgrow their belief in the Tooth Fairy,
Santa Claus or the Invisible Friend. The latter is referred to
as "almighty God" when they get older. -- L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:28:09 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:02:44 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
Are you one of those that believes that unsupported myth that there is no
almighty God?
===>Some people never outgrow their belief in the Tooth Fairy,
Santa Claus or the Invisible Friend. The latter is referred to
as "almighty God" when they get older. -- L.
So why would anyone believe you that the fable that there is no God is worth
supporting?
You, and not another soul, can support such a silly idea.
..
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Dichard Rawkins" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 04:10:59 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
<48t8g2di2k93qa244km0u8llujtaku2n0o@4ax.com>
So why would anyone believe you that the fable that there is no God is worth
supporting?
That's the nice thing about atheism. It doesn't require support. It stands on
it's own, for those that go to it on their own accord despite all the contrary
bleating, lying and chicanery of the theists.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2769
[ Followup-To: alt.bible ]
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:44:08 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:02:44 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
Are you one of those that believes that unsupported myth that there is no
almighty God?
===>Some people never outgrow their belief in the Tooth Fairy,
Santa Claus or the Invisible Friend. The latter is referred to
as "almighty God" when they get older. -- L.
So why would anyone believe you that the fable that there is no God is worth
supporting?
===>You stupidly call it a "fable", when in fact it is just
an observation that so far no believer, in any of the invisible
deities, has ever been able to prove those deities really exist.
That is true of your Invisible Friend you call "God" as well.
He/she/it exists only in your imagination. -- L.
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| User: "Samuel W. Heywood" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 09:13:11 PM |
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On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Bill M wrote:
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the TRUE one,
if any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are any objective
evidence. They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and
further copied, over the centuries, by errant men with their own
personal and selfish motivations. All of these documents, except the
Book of Morman, were hand written and hand copied over the centuries
before the invention of the printing press. There is no way to
determine authenticity or accuracy of any of these. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of inaccurate history, myth,
folklore and legends.
There is only One True God. He uses an anon server and He posts
under various names.
Beware of the imposters who are just ordinary mortals trying to
pass themselves off as one of His socks.
Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
11 Sep 2006 11:21:02 PM |
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"Samuel W. Heywood" wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Bill M wrote:
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the TRUE one,
if any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are any objective
evidence. They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and
further copied, over the centuries, by errant men with their own
personal and selfish motivations. All of these documents, except the
Book of Morman, were hand written and hand copied over the centuries
before the invention of the printing press. There is no way to
determine authenticity or accuracy of any of these. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of inaccurate history, myth,
folklore and legends.
There is only One True God. He uses an anon server and He posts
under various names.
Beware of the imposters who are just ordinary mortals trying to
pass themselves off as one of His socks.
PHEW - they must be pretty stinky by now, what was it - two thousand plus
years !?
Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
09 Sep 2006 03:45:08 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
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| User: " TomP" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
09 Sep 2006 05:23:02 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
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| User: "Josh Miles" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
09 Sep 2006 07:53:02 PM |
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TomP wrote:
Why can't you and your atheist fellow travelers grasp
the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
I've never seen anyone who knows how the scientific method works claim
that it doesn't have limits.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:41:22 AM |
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"Josh Miles" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:yLWdnRsVcNh6_J7YnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sigecom.net...
TomP wrote:
Why can't you and your atheist fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth
that science and scientific method have limits?
I've never seen anyone who knows how the scientific method works claim
that it doesn't have limits.
LOL Isn't it typical of atheists to always state something that isn't or
hasn't but never get around to telling us what good thing they saw, know of,
or believe in?
We Christian know our God and have seen Him in Jesus Christ our Lord and
Saviour. See below
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
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| User: " TomP" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 02:00:06 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.org> wrote in message
news:c556a$45040e8c$d1d89aa6$6080@PRIMUS.CA...
"Josh Miles" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:yLWdnRsVcNh6_J7YnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sigecom.net...
TomP wrote:
Why can't you and your atheist fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth
that science and scientific method have limits?
I've never seen anyone who knows how the scientific method works claim
that it doesn't have limits.
LOL Isn't it typical of atheists to always state something that isn't
or hasn't but never get around to telling us what good thing they saw,
know of, or believe in?
We Christian know our God and have seen Him in Jesus Christ our Lord
and Saviour. See below
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known
me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I
speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay
down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as
certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
Which kind of proves my point . . . .
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 11:54:01 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Josh Miles" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:yLWdnRsVcNh6_J7YnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sigecom.net...
TomP wrote:
Why can't you and your atheist fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth
that science and scientific method have limits?
I've never seen anyone who knows how the scientific method works claim
that it doesn't have limits.
LOL Isn't it typical of atheists to always state something that isn't or
hasn't but never get around to telling us what good thing they saw, know of,
or believe in?
Been looking in a mirror again Frank?
You get sadder and sadder - time for another holiday
We Christian know our God and have seen Him in Jesus Christ our Lord and
Saviour. See below
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
.
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| User: " TomP" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 01:58:52 PM |
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"Josh Miles" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:yLWdnRsVcNh6_J7YnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sigecom.net...
TomP wrote:
Why can't you and your atheist fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth
that science and scientific method have limits?
I've never seen anyone who knows how the scientific method works claim
that it doesn't have limits.
Your assertion places many correspondents in these new groups, on both the
atheist and theist sides, to that group who knows little about how
scientific method works.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 04:49:55 PM |
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TomP wrote:
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad
epistemological and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic
notion that everyone and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable
factual evidence"?
When you make big claims, you need evidence.
If I mee somebody downtown who in passing mentions she drove
into town in her car, I will barely notice, it is so mundane.
She may have taken rail or a bus, or rode in with somebody in
their cars as a passenger or took a axi.
All are mundane, believable.
If she says she drove into town in a UFO, or a goat cart, or
teleported downtown I do not believe her.
Same with religion.
And religion does not pass the sniff test.
Noah's flood is stupid. Adam and Eve are stupid.
The Jesus prophecy he would preside of judgment day
1930 years ago in the time of the high priest at Jerusalem
does not.
Islam doesn't make it either.
The contradictory claims of god make god as a very concept shaky
idea to start with.
--
Where did all these braindead morons come from!
What diseased sewer did they breed in and how did
they manage to find their way out on their own?
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Dichard Rawkins" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 04:54:53 PM |
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wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
<12g925sohtev596@corp.supernews.com>
And religion does not pass the sniff test.
Noah's flood is stupid. Adam and Eve are stupid.
They are indeed incredibly stupid, as plagiarized in the Bible. However, in the
original pagan sources they do make a bit more sense.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2769
[ Followup-To: alt.bible ]
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 11:17:02 PM |
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Dichard Rawkins wrote:
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
<12g925sohtev596@corp.supernews.com>
And religion does not pass the sniff test.
Noah's flood is stupid. Adam and Eve are stupid.
They are indeed incredibly stupid, as plagiarized in the Bible. However, in the
original pagan sources they do make a bit more sense.
Agreed and to be expected. They used the fear of imaginary gods to do what we
expect The Rule of Law and Law Enforcement to do today.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2769
[ Followup-To: alt.bible ]
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
12 Sep 2006 09:22:44 PM |
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TomP wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
You devined all that from what he said?
What incredible powers you have!
8-)
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Well I don't speak for all atheists - and I agree with you that Bill
M's continuous demands for "objective verifiable factual evidence" is
pointless and deserving of ridicule.
Objective verifiable factual evidence is of course very important and
useful if you want to know how to smelt metals or identify the cause of
disease or know something about the physical world - and I am all for
it in science and engineering.
As a human being I know that the really important things in life - like
love, compassion and justice are subjective, intuitive and personal NOT
objective, verifiable and factual..
My subjective, intuitive, personal, emotional reaction to the idea of
"The One True God" is revulsion. It creeps me out severely.
I don't truely understand how anyone could "love" such a vile monster.
(I admire and like many believers - but I can't agree with them about
God. That good and admirable men and women will continue to be good in
spite of their worship of this evil God - gives me hope for the human
race.)
I sincerely believe that the worship of gods is not noble nor edifying
nor virtuous.
The desire to grovel and debase oneself before great power is an
undeniable human trait - but so is the inate propensity for violence
and selfishness - the urge to worship should be seen as a human failing
that should be recognized and resisted.
That is my sincerely held belief.
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
I have!
Still, it doesn't make me want to believe in God or the divinity of
Jesus or anything along those lines. The idea makes my skin crawl.
Cheers, Mark.
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| User: "William T. Goat, Esq." |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
09 Sep 2006 09:57:40 PM |
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TomP wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Objective evidence is the means by which belief travels from person to
person. If you want someone to believe what you believe, you must
provide evidence. That's just how human beings work. It has nothing to
do with atheism.
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
Not everything. Just true things.
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
And why can't you theists grasp the obvious truth that the science's
limitations are not a good excuse to let your guard down against lies?
--Billy
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 05:48:02 AM |
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"William T. Goat, Esq." wrote:
TomP wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Objective evidence is the means by which belief travels from person to
person. If you want someone to believe what you believe, you must
provide evidence. That's just how human beings work. It has nothing to
do with atheism.
If you think that your belief is based upon reason, you will support it by
argument, rather than by persecution, and will abandon it if the argument goes
against you. But if your belief is based on faith, you will realize that argument
is useless, and will therefore resort to force either in the form of persecution
or by stunting and distorting the minds of the young in what is called
'education.' This last is peculiarly dastardly since it takes advantage of the
defenselessness of immature minds. Unfortunately it is practiced in a greater or
less degree in the schools of every civilized country.
[Bertrand Russell]
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
Not everything. Just true things.
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
And why can't you theists grasp the obvious truth that the science's
limitations are not a good excuse to let your guard down against lies?
--Billy
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
13 Sep 2006 01:27:53 AM |
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William T. Goat, Esq. wrote:
TomP wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Objective evidence is the means by which belief travels from person to
person.
Not usually.
Story telling is a much more common method.
Ever heard of Television? Fox News?
If you want someone to believe what you believe, you must
provide evidence. That's just how human beings work. It has nothing to
do with atheism.
On my planet people believe all sorts of crazy stuff because its what
their parents believe or because of wishful thinking or the desire to
belong to the group.
When these factors are not dominant - then people might go for
evidence.
Can I move to your planet?
8-)
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
Not everything. Just true things.
Well some true things will never be proven by verifiable evidence.
Some things - Like the desire to be motivated by love, compassion and
justice are not a question of evidence.
Good and evil are not "facts" decided by evidence but choices made.
Thats the primary realm of religion - not orbital mechanics or geology.
Science is cool - but its got bugger all to do with the great questions
of existence - like How should I live my life?
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
And why can't you theists grasp the obvious truth that the science's
limitations are not a good excuse to let your guard down against lies?
--Billy
Good point.
Mark.
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| User: "AcesLucky" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
09 Sep 2006 06:06:30 PM |
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TomP wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98398BE1ECE5Dvicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Bill M
(wmech@bellsouth.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Why do people believe in myths and fables that are unsupported by any
objective verifiable factual evidence?
Their parents forced them to.
<snip>
The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN but quite the
opposite; that man created gods!
Who needs evidence when a good imagination gets you by?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
And here is another atheist intellectual with a wide and deep background in
the history and archaeology of classical antiquity who has decided for all
time and oh so absolutely and conclusively that certain events happened and
certain people existed, or not . . . except that our dear correspondent
Uncle Vic has only the vaguest notions what the evidence is . . . nor is he
capable of interpreting much of it if he did see it.
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Damn right. What kind of moron needs "objective verifiable factual
evidence".... ?
Uncle Vic, do you have even the faintest idea of the myriad epistemological
and logical presumptions inherent in your idiosyncratic notion that everyone
and everything can be proven by "objective verifiable factual evidence"?
I know you atheists tend to be overly enamored by notions of "scientific
method" and seem to forget that scientific method is a human construct
relegated to explaining a relatively narrow range of phenomena, thus many
phenomena cannot be explained or illuminated by science. Such as whether or
not a particular person was born, did certain deeds. spoke certain words,
and died at a particular time and place. Why can't you and your atheist
fellow travelers grasp the obvious truth that science and scientific method
have limits?
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD |
10 Sep 2006 03:28:06 AM |
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"AcesLucky" <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:WNHMg.4179$TA5.872@fed1read09...
TomP wrote:
Why don't you atheists understand that your idiosyncratic notions of
"objective verifiable factual evidence" are so much nincompoopery?
Damn right. What kind of moron needs "objective verifiable factual
evidence".... ?
You forgot to finish your sentence; "...evidence" of what? If you mean
God, then you are talking qualities of excellence, and there is no
"objective verifiable factual
evidence" for ANY quality, such as good vs. evil, but that doesn't make
qualities irrelevant nor invalid.
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