| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bible Believer" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2007 01:37:16 PM |
| Object: |
Who Are God's Chosen People? |
Who Are God's Chosen People?
By Scott Kessler
12/2006
Preterists are often accused of holding to “Replacement
Theology”. The truth of the matter is that we do no such
thing. Replacement theology is a misnomer. No one has
been “replaced” in regard to the blessings of the Covenant.
The church is “Israel” (Galatians 6:16) and always has been,
even in the Old Testament.
"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses
the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:22-23)
This past week, I was treated to a wonderful slide show
presentation by a man who recently visited Israel. The
pictures were beautiful. It must have been thrilling to
see the sights and walk the paths that Jesus himself may
have seen and walked. However, the speaker, obviously
a premillennial dispensationalist, was obsessed with the
Eastern gate in his presentation, telling how Christ will
once again pass through this gate to set up His “millennial”
kingdom. For “Jerusalem”, he said, “is the city that God
loves. They are his chosen people”. The last slide was an
encouragement for us as Christians to “Pray for the peace
of Jerusalem” (Psalms 122:6).
Actually, the complete verse of Psalms 122:6 says, “Pray for
the peace of Jerusalem! May they be secure who love you!”
This begs the question as to the identity of Jerusalem, as
well as “God’s chosen people”. The New Testament gives
us two Jerusalems, the earthly Jerusalem, the cursed fig tree
(Matthew 21:18-21) which “is in slavery with her children”
(Galatians 4:25), and the new, heavenly Jerusalem, which
is the free and the mother of all the saints (Galatians 4:26,
Hebrews 12:22-24, Revelation 3:12, Revelation 21:1-10).
Which Jerusalem can rightly be described as those who love
God? The answer to that question has huge ramifications,
both theologically and politically.
I think that everyone is aware of the political ramifications
of Christian Zionism, so I’ll focus here on the theological
issues. Should Christians bother to send missionaries to
Israel? Believe it or not, many notable Christian leaders
have discouraged believers from trying to convert Judaists.
John Hagee, the poster boy of Christian Zionism, says that
trying to convert Jews is a "waste of time”.
“Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha'i, needs to believe
in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a
covenant with God that has never been replaced with
Christianity… The Jewish people have a relationship to God
through the law of God as given through Moses… I believe
that every Gentile person can only come to God through the
cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives
in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has
a relationship with God and will come to redemption.”
(Julia Duin, "San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles
Anti-Semitism," The Houston Chronicle, 30 April 1988).
Showing who he believes to be Sovereign, John Hagee writes,
“We support Israel because all other nations were created
by an act of men, but Israel was created by an act of God.”
(See Supporting Israel). Hagee goes on to say that “The
Royal Land Grant that was given to Abraham and his seed
through Isaac and Jacob with an everlasting and unconditional
covenant.”. He seems to forget that the Scriptures plainly
teach that “…by works of the law no human being will be
justified in his sight…” (Romans 3:20). He seems to forget
Jesus’ own words concerning the Real Estate in the
New Covenant.
“The woman said to him, "Sir, I perceive that you are
a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain,
but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people
ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe
me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain
nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship
what you do not know; we worship what we know, for
salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and
is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the
Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such
people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship
him must worship in spirit and truth."” (John 4:19-24).
Hagee also seems to forget that God’s covenant with fleshly
Israel was not unconditional. It required their obedience
(Deuteronomy 28:15, 63). Hagee ignores that fact that
the Abrahamic Covenant was already fulfilled, both physically
(Joshua 23:14) and Spiritually (Galatians 3:8).
More importantly, however, is the issue dealing with the
identity of God and His New Covenant. David Klinghoffer
writes, “Both Jews and Christians worship the same God
and both have a place, for believers, in God's scheme of
things. Jews are the people of the Covenant while Christians
approach God through Jesus.” What is this covenant that
Klinghoffer is speaking of? It certainly isn’t the New
Covenant, to which Jesus is the sole mediator (1 Timothy 2:5;
Hebrews 9:15; Hebrews 12:24). It is foolishness to recognize
Judaism as a religion of the covenant. There is no covenant
without Christ, as even the Old Testament saints “all ate the
same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink.
For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them,
and the Rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:3-4). So how
has God kept His promises to “His chosen people”?
The Identity of Israel
The common Dispensationalist cry is “the Jews are God’s
Chosen people”. That begs the question, “just what exactly
is a “Jew”?” Is it a nation, a race, or a religion? Are
American Jews in covenant with God? What about European
proselytes living is Israel? How about Hebrews who practice
Buddhism? Dispensational Zionists have a difficult time
answering that question consistently. Covenantalists,
however, can take their definition of Israel straight
from Scripture.
God promised Abraham that he would make of him a
“great nation” (Genesis 12:2), and that “in thy seed shall
all the nations of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 22:18).
This nation was to be a “holy nation” (Exodus 19:6).
What does it mean to be a Holy Nation? Is a nation holy
simply because the DNA of its citizens matches Abraham’s
(which, by the way, would eliminate most of the people
living in modern day Israel)? Does the term “holy nation”
fit some godless country that exists in the Middle East
founded by the United Nations in 1948? Hardly. God
never saved anyone based in his or her genealogy, in either
the Old or New Testament. If that were the case, then Esau
(whom God hated – Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13) and Ishmael
would have a claim on God’s Covenant Blessings. So would
King Saul, Judas Iscariot, and the modern day Palestinians.
Likewise, Ruth (a Moabite), Rahab (a Canaanite), and Urriah
(the Hittite), (two of which were Christ’s ancestors) would
never have experienced sanctification. Physical circumcision
made one a part of God’s visible church, but in the light of
eternity, profits nothing (Galatians 5:6).
A holy nation is set apart by God based on obedience to
His Covenant. In the Old Testament, a Hebrew who was
disobedient was to be “cut off from the congregation of
Israel” (Exodus 12:19). Does this mean that God changed
the person’s genetic code so that he was no longer a Hebrew?
Of course not. It means that he was no longer part of the
“holy nation”, God’s visible church here on earth. The same
is true in the New Testament (ex. 1 Corinthians 5:1-12).
Sadly, the judicial powers of the modern church are almost
non-existent.
In the same Exodus passage, God tells Moses “And when a
stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to
the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him
come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the
land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. One law
shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells
among you." (Exodus 12:48-49). Again, God does not make
this person’s DNA match that of Abraham, but instead sets
him apart “as a native of the land” in His holy nation. Thus,
even in the Old Testament, God never considered anyone
a “Jew” based on race alone. Both Jew and Gentiles were
to have “one law”.
This is even more obvious the New Testament. The Pharisees
took pride in their linage, but were not members of God’s
“holy nation”. John the Baptist gave them this warning.
“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming
to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned
you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits
worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves,
"We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God
is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees.
Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is
cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 3:7-10).
The Judaists even bragged to Jesus about their heritage,
proclaiming “Abraham is our father” (John 8:39). But
Jesus was very clear with His response. Contrary to popular
dispensational belief, Judaism is not “Old Testament
religion”, but a demon-inspired, Talmudic cult. When the
Pharisees rejected Christ, they rejected Moses (John 5:46).
Furthermore, contrary to the above claims of David
Klinghoffer, Judaists and Christians do NOT worship the
same God. The god of Judaism is the Devil (John 8:44).
The Christian God is the only true God, and the Christ of
the Covenant is the only mediator (1 Timothy 2:5 – See
August’s blog “Only One Mediator”). Those who reject Christ
are neither Abraham’s children nor God’s (John 8:39-42).
As Christ rejecters, they are no longer “God’s Chosen People”.
Jesus told them, "… the kingdom of God will be taken from
you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.” (Matthew
21:43). This nation is His “holy nation”, the Church of Jesus
Christ, the new “Israel of God”, and the Galatian church was
so called (Galatians 6:16). Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews
(Philippians 3:5), was clear “that it is those of faith who
are the sons of Abraham.” (Galatians 3:7).
The Church is God’s “Israel”
Preterists are often accused of hold to “Replacement
Theology”. The truth of the matter is that we do no such
thing. Replacement theology is a misnomer. No one has
been “replaced” in regard to the blessings of the Covenant.
The church is “Israel” (Galatians 6:16), and always has been,
even in the Old Testament.
No one can deny Paul’s tender feelings toward his own
countrymen. He is clearly dismayed over their stubbornness,
and even wishes that he could sacrifice his own soul for their
conversion (Romans 9:3). But then Paul clearly contrasts
God’s Israel from “Israel after the flesh”. He writes
“…for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Romans 9:6),
“But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and whose circumcision
is that of the heart…” (Romans 2:29). “And if you are
Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according
to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29). In Christ, all ethnic,
cultural, economic and generational walls have been removed.
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor
free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in
Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). If Jesus Christ removed these
barriers, who are we to try and build them back up?
While the modern dispensational church keeps it’s eyes
glued to the Middle East, awaiting some sort of Theological
Extravaganza, Paul clarified that the Abrahamic Covenant
(Genesis 22:18) is being fulfilled through the church,
(and the Galatian Gentile church at that). “And the
Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by
faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying,
"In you all the nations shall be blessed.” (Galatians 3:8).
God’s everlasting Covenant is not concerned about a 10-mile
strip of real estate in the Middle East. As Christians, we
are members of the New, Heavenly Jerusalem which is
the one and only bride of Christ, and the mother of us
all (Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22).
So what should be the mindset of Christians toward Israel?
Politically speaking Israel is a strong ally of the United
States and of western society in general, therefore, they have
my support, as long as they aren’t the aggressors of conflict.
However, we must make it clear that, theologically speaking,
Judaism and Christianity have nothing in common. We need
not attempt any ecumenical alliances with Judaists,
“…For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?
Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” (2 Corinthians
6:14). We are commanded by our Lord to make disciples
of ALL nations (Matthew 28:18-20), and that includes
Judaizers, who cannot be saved apart from Christ, no matter
what John Hagee says. Therefore, while my dispensationalists
friends are praying for the peace of Jerusalem, my prayer is
different. I’m praying for the conversion of Jerusalem.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/kessler-scott_07_01.html
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
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| User: "Sam Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
19 Feb 2007 07:54:48 PM |
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All people are G-Ds chosen........
BUT what they are chosen for is an individual answer
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 11:06:32 AM |
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Among the Semites, the sons of the divine parents
EL and ASHERA were chosen. Some worshipped BAAL,
others worshipped YAHOO (YHWH), still others worshipped
KHEMOSH, etc.
Any people (nation) in those days that picked
a particular god to worship considered themselves the
"chosen people" of that god. -- L.
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| User: "nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 09:07:20 AM |
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On Feb 19, 8:54?pm, Sam Taylor <cyg...@cncnet.com> wrote:
All people are G-Ds chosen........
BUT what they are chosen for is an individual answer
~~~~~~~
I disagree....God says only ~one~ nation is His nation and that is
Israel.
He uses other nations for the benefit of Israel. Such as Egypt was
used to bless and punish.
Amo 3:1 Hear this Word that the Lord has spoken against you, sons of
Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of
Egypt, saying,
Amo 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 11:49:06 AM |
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nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 8:54?pm, Sam Taylor <cyg...@cncnet.com> wrote:
All people are G-Ds chosen........
BUT what they are chosen for is an individual answer
~~~~~~~
I disagree....God says only ~one~ nation is His nation and that is
Israel.
===>That is what the "God" of the priests and prophets of Israel says.
Of course they have to promote their own chosen "God".
They apparently forcibly converted the Jews to the worship of YHWH.
Jeremiah 44:17-18
"But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded
from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and
pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our
forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in
the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well
off and saw no misfortune.
"But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and
pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have
met our end by the sword and by famine."
All gods are created in the minds of believers. -- L.
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| User: "Shapescare" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
23 Feb 2007 01:56:01 PM |
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On 16 Feb, 20:37, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Who Are God's Chosen People?
The Jews are Jehova's chosen people.
What is the point in creating a god and then give him away to others?
Fatter'n
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| User: "nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
16 Feb 2007 02:45:22 PM |
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On Feb 16, 2:37 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Who Are God's Chosen People?
By Scott Kessler
12/2006
~~~~~~~
You take this man's word above Almighty God's word? Why?
Deu 7:6 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God. The Lord your
God has chosen you to be a special people to Himself above all people
that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 14:2 For you are a holy people to teh Lord your God, and the Lord
has chosen you to be a peculiar people to Himself, above all the
nations that are on the earth.
2Sa 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like Your people, like
Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to Himself, and to make
Him a name, and to do for You great things and terrible, for Your
land, before Your people, whom You redeemed to You from Egypt, from
the nations and their gods?
2Sa 7:24 For You have confirmed to Yourself Your people Israel to be
a people to You forever. And You, the Lord, have become their God.
Amo 3:1 Hear this Word that the Lord has spoken against you, sons of
Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of
Egypt, saying,
Amo 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
~~~~~~~
Preterists are often accused of holding to "Replacement
Theology". The truth of the matter is that we do no such
thing. Replacement theology is a misnomer. No one has
been "replaced" in regard to the blessings of the Covenant.
The church is "Israel" (Galatians 6:16) and always has been,
even in the Old Testament.
"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses
the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:22-23)
This past week, I was treated to a wonderful slide show
presentation by a man who recently visited Israel. The
pictures were beautiful. It must have been thrilling to
see the sights and walk the paths that Jesus himself may
have seen and walked. However, the speaker, obviously
a premillennial dispensationalist, was obsessed with the
Eastern gate in his presentation, telling how Christ will
once again pass through this gate to set up His "millennial"
kingdom. For "Jerusalem", he said, "is the city that God
loves. They are his chosen people". The last slide was an
encouragement for us as Christians to "Pray for the peace
of Jerusalem" (Psalms 122:6).
Actually, the complete verse of Psalms 122:6 says, "Pray for
the peace of Jerusalem! May they be secure who love you!"
This begs the question as to the identity of Jerusalem, as
well as "God's chosen people". The New Testament gives
us two Jerusalems, the earthly Jerusalem, the cursed fig tree
(Matthew 21:18-21) which "is in slavery with her children"
(Galatians 4:25), and the new, heavenly Jerusalem, which
is the free and the mother of all the saints (Galatians 4:26,
Hebrews 12:22-24, Revelation 3:12, Revelation 21:1-10).
Which Jerusalem can rightly be described as those who love
God? The answer to that question has huge ramifications,
both theologically and politically.
I think that everyone is aware of the political ramifications
of Christian Zionism, so I'll focus here on the theological
issues. Should Christians bother to send missionaries to
Israel? Believe it or not, many notable Christian leaders
have discouraged believers from trying to convert Judaists.
John Hagee, the poster boy of Christian Zionism, says that
trying to convert Jews is a "waste of time".
"Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha'i, needs to believe
in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a
covenant with God that has never been replaced with
Christianity... The Jewish people have a relationship to God
through the law of God as given through Moses... I believe
that every Gentile person can only come to God through the
cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives
in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has
a relationship with God and will come to redemption."
(Julia Duin, "San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles
Anti-Semitism," The Houston Chronicle, 30 April 1988).
Showing who he believes to be Sovereign, John Hagee writes,
"We support Israel because all other nations were created
by an act of men, but Israel was created by an act of God."
(See Supporting Israel). Hagee goes on to say that "The
Royal Land Grant that was given to Abraham and his seed
through Isaac and Jacob with an everlasting and unconditional
covenant.". He seems to forget that the Scriptures plainly
teach that "...by works of the law no human being will be
justified in his sight..." (Romans 3:20). He seems to forget
Jesus' own words concerning the Real Estate in the
New Covenant.
"The woman said to him, "Sir, I perceive that you are
a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain,
but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people
ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe
me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain
nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship
what you do not know; we worship what we know, for
salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and
is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the
Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such
people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship
him must worship in spirit and truth."" (John 4:19-24).
Hagee also seems to forget that God's covenant with fleshly
Israel was not unconditional. It required their obedience
(Deuteronomy 28:15, 63). Hagee ignores that fact that
the Abrahamic Covenant was already fulfilled, both physically
(Joshua 23:14) and Spiritually (Galatians 3:8).
More importantly, however, is the issue dealing with the
identity of God and His New Covenant. David Klinghoffer
writes, "Both Jews and Christians worship the same God
and both have a place, for believers, in God's scheme of
things. Jews are the people of the Covenant while Christians
approach God through Jesus." What is this covenant that
Klinghoffer is speaking of? It certainly isn't the New
Covenant, to which Jesus is the sole mediator (1 Timothy 2:5;
Hebrews 9:15; Hebrews 12:24). It is foolishness to recognize
Judaism as a religion of the covenant. There is no covenant
without Christ, as even the Old Testament saints "all ate the
same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink.
For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them,
and the Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:3-4). So how
has God kept His promises to "His chosen people"?
The Identity of Israel
The common Dispensationalist cry is "the Jews are God's
Chosen people". That begs the question, "just what exactly
is a "Jew"?" Is it a nation, a race, or a religion? Are
American Jews in covenant with God? What about European
proselytes living is Israel? How about Hebrews who practice
Buddhism? Dispensational Zionists have a difficult time
answering that question consistently. Covenantalists,
however, can take their definition of Israel straight
from Scripture.
God promised Abraham that he would make of him a
"great nation" (Genesis 12:2), and that "in thy seed shall
all the nations of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 22:18).
This nation was to be a "holy nation" (Exodus 19:6).
What does it mean to be a Holy Nation? Is a nation holy
simply because the DNA of its citizens matches Abraham's
(which, by the way, would eliminate most of the people
living in modern day Israel)? Does the term "holy nation"
fit some godless country that exists in the Middle East
founded by the United Nations in 1948? Hardly. God
never saved anyone based in his or her genealogy, in either
the Old or New Testament. If that were the case, then Esau
(whom God hated - Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13) and Ishmael
would have a claim on God's Covenant Blessings. So would
King Saul, Judas Iscariot, and the modern day Palestinians.
Likewise, Ruth (a Moabite), Rahab (a Canaanite), and Urriah
(the Hittite), (two of which were Christ's ancestors) would
never have experienced sanctification. Physical circumcision
made one a part of God's visible church, but in the light of
eternity, profits nothing (Galatians 5:6).
A holy nation is set apart by God based on obedience to
His Covenant. In the Old Testament, a Hebrew who was
disobedient was to be "cut off from the congregation of
Israel" (Exodus 12:19). Does this mean that God changed
the person's genetic code so that he was no longer a Hebrew?
Of course not. It means that he was no longer part of the
"holy nation", God's visible church here on earth. The same
is true in the New Testament (ex. 1 Corinthians 5:1-12).
Sadly, the judicial powers of the modern church are almost
non-existent.
In the same Exodus passage, God tells Moses "And when a
stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to
the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him
come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the
land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. One law
shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells
among you." (Exodus 12:48-49). Again, God does not make
this person's DNA match that of Abraham, but instead sets
him apart "as a native of the land" in His holy nation. Thus,
even in the Old Testament, God never considered anyone
a "Jew" based on race alone. Both Jew and Gentiles were
to have "one law".
This is even more obvious the New Testament. The Pharisees
took pride in their linage, but were not members of God's
"holy nation". John the Baptist gave them this warning.
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming
to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned
you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits
worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves,
"We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God
is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees.
Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is
cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matthew 3:7-10).
The Judaists even bragged to Jesus about their heritage,
proclaiming "Abraham is our father" (John 8:39). But
Jesus was very clear with His response. Contrary to popular
dispensational belief, Judaism is not "Old Testament
religion", but a demon-inspired, Talmudic cult. When the
Pharisees rejected Christ, they rejected Moses (John 5:46).
Furthermore, contrary to the above claims of David
Klinghoffer, Judaists and Christians do NOT worship the
same God. The god of Judaism is the Devil (John 8:44).
The Christian God is the only true God, and the Christ of
the Covenant is the only mediator (1 Timothy 2:5 - See
August's blog "Only One Mediator"). Those who reject Christ
are neither Abraham's children nor God's (John 8:39-42).
As Christ rejecters, they are no longer "God's Chosen People".
Jesus told them, "... the kingdom of God will be taken from
you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it." (Matthew
21:43). This nation is His "holy nation", the Church of Jesus
Christ, the new "Israel of God", and the Galatian church was
so called (Galatians 6:16). Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews
(Philippians 3:5), was clear "that it is those of faith who
are the sons of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7).
The Church is God's "Israel"
Preterists are often accused of hold to "Replacement
Theology". The truth of the matter is that we do no such
thing. Replacement theology is a misnomer. No one has
been "replaced" in regard to the blessings of the Covenant.
The church is "Israel" (Galatians 6:16), and always has been,
even in the Old Testament.
No one can deny Paul's tender feelings toward his own
countrymen. He is clearly dismayed over their stubbornness,
and even wishes that he could sacrifice his own soul for their
conversion (Romans 9:3). But then Paul clearly contrasts
God's Israel from "Israel after the flesh". He writes
"...for they are not all Israel who are of Israel" (Romans 9:6),
"But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and whose circumcision
is that of the heart..." (Romans 2:29). "And if you are
Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according
to the promise." (Galatians 3:29). In Christ, all ethnic,
cultural, economic and generational walls have been removed.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor
free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in
Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). If Jesus Christ removed these
barriers, who are we to try and build them back up?
While the modern dispensational church keeps it's eyes
glued to the Middle East, awaiting some sort of Theological
Extravaganza, Paul clarified that the Abrahamic Covenant
(Genesis 22:18) is being fulfilled through the church,
(and the Galatian Gentile church at that). "And the
Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by
faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying,
"In you all the nations shall be blessed." (Galatians 3:8).
God's everlasting Covenant is not concerned about a 10-mile
strip of real estate in the Middle East. As Christians, we
are members of the New, Heavenly Jerusalem which is
the one and only bride of Christ, and the mother of us
all (Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22).
So what should be the mindset of Christians toward Israel?
Politically speaking Israel is a strong ally of the United
States and of western society in general, therefore, they have
my support, as long as they aren't the aggressors of conflict.
However, we must make it clear that, theologically speaking,
Judaism and Christianity have nothing in common. We need
not attempt any ecumenical alliances with Judaists,
"...For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?
Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians
6:14). We are commanded by our Lord to make disciples
of ALL nations (Matthew 28:18-20), and that includes
Judaizers, who cannot be saved apart from Christ, no matter
what John Hagee says. Therefore, while my dispensationalists
friends are praying for the peace of Jerusalem, my prayer is
different. I'm praying for the conversion of Jerusalem.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/kessler-scott_07_01....
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
16 Feb 2007 04:18:43 PM |
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On 16 Feb 2007 12:45:22 -0800, "nancy" <nwd53@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 16, 2:37 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Who Are God's Chosen People?
By Scott Kessler
12/2006
~~~~~~~
You take this man's word above Almighty God's word? Why?
Misuse Scriptures if you wish. All you did is try to pit
Scripture against Scripture.
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
16 Feb 2007 07:43:21 PM |
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Misuse Scriptures if you wish. All you did is try to pit
Scripture against Scripture.
If scripture can be pitted against scripture, then that further shows that
scripture is inconsistent. It is very easy to find opposing viewpoints in
the bible, which makes it difficult to disceen what the true message(s) of
the bible is/are, and very difficult to follow the bible as whole, when
following one part of the bible contradicts another.
BTW: I enjoyed reading your argument in the thread Paul and the Law.
.
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| User: "Mark T moi@home074567986366587595637636579" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
17 Feb 2007 12:02:41 AM |
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"Jeckyl" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Misuse Scriptures if you wish. All you did is try to pit
Scripture against Scripture.
If scripture can be pitted against scripture, then that further shows that
scripture is inconsistent.
Yep!
It is very easy to find opposing viewpoints in the bible, which makes it
difficult to disceen what the true message(s) of the bible is/are, and
very difficult to follow the bible as whole, when following one part of
the bible contradicts another.
Fundamentalists start with their erroneous dogma and then attempt to prove
thiongs from the bible regardless of the historical evidence to the
contrary. Most fundamentalist Bible Study is pooling of ignorance.
Take this basic feature of God .............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To see or not to see God:
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
(Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
OR
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and
live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Further links:
1001 Errors in the Christian Bible
http://hometown.aol.com/abdulreis/myhomepage/
Biblical Inconsistencies
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
Skeptics Annotated Bible
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
17 Feb 2007 10:41:20 AM |
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Bs'd
Read here why the NT has no value whatsoever: http://www.geocities.com/Metzad
Eliyahu
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
17 Feb 2007 08:51:26 PM |
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On 17 Feb 2007 08:41:20 -0800,
claimed:
Bs'd
Read here why the NT has no value whatsoever: http://www.geocities.com/Metzad
Are you really that stupid that you think that
you have found some new golden nugget of
wisdom and that no one has ever seen *****
claims like your before and refuted them?
Goodbye, idiot.
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "nancy" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
17 Feb 2007 06:03:34 PM |
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On Feb 17, 1:02=EF=BF=BDam, "Mark T" <moi@home074567986366587595637636579>
wrote:
"Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Misuse Scriptures if you wish. =A0All you did is try to pit
Scripture against Scripture.
If scripture can be pitted against scripture, then that further shows t=
hat
scripture is inconsistent.
Yep!
It is very easy to find opposing viewpoints in the bible, which makes it
difficult to disceen what the true message(s) of the bible is/are, and
very difficult to follow the bible as whole, when following one part of
the bible contradicts another.
~~~~~~~
This only happens for those that are ignorant of the Bible. As you
must be from the scriptures you have quoted below.
Jesus the Christ was the God of the Old Teastament that was seen.
1Co 10:1 And, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant that all our
fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea.
1Co 10:2 And all were baptized to Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1Co 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food,
1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of
the spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
The Father has never been seen by anyone human.
~~~~~~~
Fundamentalists start with their erroneous dogma and then attempt to prove
thiongs from the bible regardless of the historical evidence to the
contrary. =A0Most fundamentalist Bible Study is pooling of ignorance.
Take this basic feature of God .............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To see or not to see God:
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:=
23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his frien=
d=2E"
(Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
OR
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me a=
nd
live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Further links:
1001 Errors in the Christian Biblehttp://hometown.aol.com/abdulreis/myhom=
epage/
Biblical Inconsistencieshttp://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_mor=
gan/inconsistencies....
Skeptics Annotated Biblehttp://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & linkshttp:/=
/www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.s=
oundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "Mark T moi@home0745677486877876405698336579" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
17 Feb 2007 07:28:53 PM |
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"nancy" <nwd53@aol.com> wroteth:
Jesus the Christ was the God of the Old Teastament that was seen.
Not according to the scripotures that you seem ignorant of .....
--
"He is not a man, as I am" Job 9:32
--
"the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He
should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I am God, and not man" Hosea 11:9
--
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
--
"I [Jesus] am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, MY GOD AND YOUR GOD" -
John 20:17
Does God have a God?????
--
"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I
[YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]."
Isaiah 45:21
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "nancy" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
18 Feb 2007 02:02:55 PM |
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On Feb 17, 8:28?pm, "Mark T" <moi@home0745677486877876405698336579>
wrote:
"nancy" <n...@aol.com> wroteth:
Jesus the Christ was the God of the Old Teastament that was seen.
Not according to the scripotures that you seem ignorant of .....
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been a student of
God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about 2 years
~~~~~~~
"He is not a man, as I am" Job 9:32
~~~~~~~
Mart T., the Jews are right.....there is ~only~ ONE God and that is
the Father. He is the ~only~ ONE that is immortal.
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be
approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be
honor and power everlasting. Amen.
~~~We know this is speaking of the Father, because the Son has been
seen. They are seperate entities.
1Co 15:27 For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that
all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts
Him who has put all things under Him.
1Co 15:28 But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son
Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to
Him, so that God may be all things in all
~~~ So you see, yes, Jesus does have a God, the Father. Everything and
I mean everything was created by the Father... this goes for the Son,
too.
Pro 8:22 The Lord possessed me from the beginning of His way, before
His works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was anointed from everlasting, from the beginning, before
the earth ever was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there
were no springs heavy with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was
brought forth.
Pro 8:26 before He had made the earth, or the fields or the highest
part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a
circle upon the face of the deep;
Pro 8:28 when He set the clouds above; when He made the strong
fountains of the deep;
Pro 8:29 when He gave to the sea its limit that the waters should not
pass His command; when He appointed the foundations of the earth;
Pro 8:30 even I was a workman at His side; and I was daily His
delight, rejoicing always before Him;
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in the world, His earth; and my delight was with
the sons of men.
~~~ The Son is God's Spokesman. He spoke for the Father most of the
time, but there are recorded times the Father has spoken....such as:
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For He received honor and glory from God the Father, when
was borne to Him a voice from the excellent glory, "This is My beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased."
~~~God imputes immorality to whom He pleases. As He has done to His
Son, Jesus the Christ. ...as He will do for the saints....His
angels...
~~~~~~~
--
"the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He
should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I am God, and not man" Hosea 11:9
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
--
"I [Jesus] am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, MY GOD AND YOUR GOD" -
John 20:17
Does God have a God?????
--
"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I
[YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]."
Isaiah 45:21
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & linkshttp://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
18 Feb 2007 11:01:42 PM |
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On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <nwd53@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
But hey, as long as you get to believe in your newspaper
prophet, that's all that matters, right? After all, you're
doctrine is more important than the word of God, right?
And let us note that this idiot claims that symbolism is
a bad thing, when in reality, the Bible is full of symbolism
and Revelation, for example, is highly symbolic!
Now go ahead and defend your newspaper prophet,
all the while, ignoring the part where he has picked
his targets and has been wrong each time. Make an
excuse for it, as if "wrong" does not mean "wrong".
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "nancy" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 09:02:58 AM |
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|
On Feb 19, 12:01=EF=BF=BDam, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. =A0You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. =A0Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. =A0A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. =A0That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... =A0I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
Isaiah was talking about the future. Babylon has not been destroyed
like Sodom and Gomorrah, now has it?
Rev 18:21 And one strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone
and threw it into the sea, saying, So on an impulse the great city,
Babylon, will be thrown down and not at all will be found any more.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and of musicians. and flutists,
and of trumpeters will be heard no more at all in you. And every
craftsman of any craft will not be found any more in you. And the
sound of a mill will never more be heard at all in you.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a lamp will never more shine at all in
you. And the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride will never more
be heard at all in you. For your merchants were the great ones of the
earth; for by your sorceries all nations were deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints,
and of all those who were slain on the earth.
You are nothing more than a bible-thumper, blowing hot air. I am here
to tell you I am not intimidated by your crude language.
You didn't answer the post because you couldn't.
~~~~~~~
But hey, as long as you get to believe in your newspaper
prophet, that's all that matters, right? =A0After all, you're
doctrine is more important than the word of God, right?
And let us note that this idiot claims that symbolism is
a bad thing, when in reality, the Bible is full of symbolism
and Revelation, for example, is highly symbolic!
Now go ahead and defend your newspaper prophet,
all the while, ignoring the part where he has picked
his targets and has been wrong each time. =A0Make an
excuse for it, as if "wrong" does not mean "wrong".
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. =A0I won't believe you. =A0To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
21 Feb 2007 08:29:58 AM |
|
|
On 20 Feb 2007 07:02:58 -0800, "nancy" <nwd53@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. ou follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot.
nother "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened.
few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. hat's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
Isaiah was talking about the future. Babylon has not been destroyed
like Sodom and Gomorrah, now has it?
Actually, yes, it has. And the truth is, that he said that
it has been rebuilt, which means that it had to have been
destroyed. So that comment doesn't fly.
Rev 18:21 And one strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone
and threw it into the sea, saying, So on an impulse the great city,
Babylon, will be thrown down and not at all will be found any more.
The Babylon in Revelation, is not the literal city of Babylon.
You are nothing more than a bible-thumper, blowing hot air.
You say this, while quoting the Bible.
Furthermore, what is wrong with believing God's word
over some man?
You didn't answer the post because you couldn't.
You can dream whatever you want to. I did deal with
this issue Scripturally.
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
|
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| User: "nancy" |
|
| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
21 Feb 2007 02:52:51 PM |
|
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On Feb 21, 9:29=EF=BF=BDam, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 07:02:58 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. =A0ou follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot.
nother "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened.
=A0few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. =A0hat's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
Isaiah was talking about the future. Babylon has not been destroyed
like Sodom and Gomorrah, now has it?
Actually, yes, it has. =A0And the truth is, that he said that
it has been rebuilt, which means that it had to have been
destroyed. =A0So that comment doesn't fly.
~~~~~~~
Isaiah was speaking of a future time. Babylon has ~never~ been
destroyed like
Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and Gomorrah has ~never~ been found.
Babylon, that sets on the Euphrates River in Iraq, has been located
and is in the process of being rebuilt.
Your quarrel has no merit. One many for God and ~zero~ for you.
~~~~~~~
Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the majestic beauty of
the Chaldees, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
Rev 18:21 =A0And one strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone
and threw it into the sea, saying, So on an impulse the great city,
Babylon, will be thrown down and not at all will be found any more.
The Babylon in Revelation, is not the literal city of Babylon.
You are nothing more than a bible-thumper, blowing hot air.
You say this, while quoting the Bible.
Furthermore, what is wrong with believing God's word
over some man?
You didn't answer the post because you couldn't.
You can dream whatever you want to. =A0I did deal with
this issue Scripturally.
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. =A0I won't believe you. =A0To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 11:15:29 AM |
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nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01�am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. �You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. �Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. �A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. �That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... �I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
===>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
“FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE.” -- L.
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| User: "nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
20 Feb 2007 12:36:12 PM |
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On Feb 20, 12:15 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
wrote:
nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. ?You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. ?Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. ?A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. ?That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... ?I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
===>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
"FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE." -- L.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~
My entire life I have been one that needed someone.....anyone that I
could cling to.....not so today. 8-)
God has shown me I could be standing in the middle of the
Brotherhood..... I could be standing next to Neviile and not have a
relationship with Him and be lost. I have had no contact from any of
the Brotherhood for almost 3 years, now, execpt for one that I posted
maybe 3 or 4 times, in those 3 years.The knowledge God has given to me
comes from God.
I have come to this group with no one but God. I have quoted no one
but God. To tell you there is SOMEONE preaching the truth and where
you may find him. To tell you, you can prove by the Bible what he
says.
I'm not trying convert anyone....I DON"T have the power! The only
power I have is to be obedient to God. I will only be here for awhile.
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
21 Feb 2007 08:30:45 AM |
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On 20 Feb 2007 10:36:12 -0800, "nancy" <nwd53@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 20, 12:15 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
wrote:
nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. ?You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. ?Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. ?A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. ?That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... ?I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
===>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
"FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE." -- L.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~
My entire life I have been one that needed someone.....anyone that I
could cling to.....not so today. 8-)
And yet, cling to someone is what you do.
You seem to be worshipping this man.
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
21 Feb 2007 03:07:42 PM |
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On Feb 21, 9:30=EF=BF=BDam, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 10:36:12 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 20, 12:15 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
wrote:
nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 12:02:55 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
~~~~~~~
No, I do not know all of the scriptures. I have only been
a student of God's prophet, Neville V. Stevens for about
2 years
~~~~~~~
And there it is. ?You follow some guy and then claim
to be serving God.
Has it ever occurred to you, to be a student of Christ,
instead of some man who claims to be a prophet?
The man is an idiot. ?Another "newspaper prophet".
Whatever is in the news, he claims is Bible prophecy
being fulfilled.
Of course, when that failed, he moves on to another
target he can call "The AntiChrist", or some such
nonsense, but of course, never, not once says....
"The last times I picked the other guys, I was wrong."
This idiot tried to claim that Babylon has been rebuilt,
when no such thing has happened. ?A few mock buildings
and some scam artists standing around selling trinkets,
does not Babylon make.
And of course, none of these "newspaper prophets"
let it bother than that the Bible clearly says that
Babylon would never be rebuilt. ?That's because
their pride and vanity get in the way of truth. (:
So let's see what this idiot says...
"For hundreds of years church leaders have believed that
Babylon would never arise again. In practical terms, there
would seem to be no purpose in rebuilding it. It was a safe
bet to conclude that it would never arise again - even though
the Bible says otherwise."
So according to him, the Bible says that it would be rebuilt.
Hmmmm... ?I guess Isaiah was wrong, in chapter 13, when
he spoke by inspiration of God, which would make God wrong.
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
=3D=3D=3D>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
"FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE." -- L.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~
My entire life I have been one that needed someone.....anyone that I
could cling to.....not so today. 8-)
And yet, cling to someone is what you do.
You seem to be worshipping this man.
~~~~~~~
Not so..... I never thought it would be like this, but for the first
time in my life the Bible makes sense. I do not worship Neville
Stevens, but I sure do thank God for him.
You see, God uses people for His will. Oh, the Bible tells us He could
use angels or even stones, but in this day, as the days of old, God
uses prophets.
This is today.
Malachi is the Levite Book. It tells us to watch for the endtime
prophet.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
~~~~~~~
--
Hope for a physical kingdom is to deny Christ's words.
He dispelled that idea in Luke 17:20-21 and He never
said, "But later it will be", nor can Jesus be quoted
anywhere in Scripture saying that it will be physical.
Reading other passages that you think say it will be,
is not to refute this statement, but rather, it is to
pit the Bible against itself and an Apostle against
his Lord, since it would be a contradiction!
I would not want to be in that position!
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. =A0I won't believe you. =A0To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
21 Feb 2007 10:28:54 PM |
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"nancy" <nwd53@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1172092062.324446.254970@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 21, 9:30?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 10:36:12 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 20, 12:15 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
wrote:
nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
===>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
"FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE." -- L.-
~~~~~~~
My entire life I have been one that needed someone.....anyone that I
could cling to.....not so today. 8-)
And yet, cling to someone is what you do.
You seem to be worshipping this man.
~~~~~~~
Not so..... I never thought it would be like this, but for the first
time in my life the Bible makes sense. I do not worship Neville
Stevens, but I sure do thank God for him.
You see, God uses people for His will. Oh, the Bible tells us He could
use angels or even stones, but in this day, as the days of old, God
uses prophets.
This is today.
*An angel that give us insight to God's Word is also called a Messenger.
Malachi is the Levite Book. It tells us to watch for the endtime
prophet.
*Malachi is the last book of the Old Testament
The Endtime prophet was Jesus Christ.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
Elijah was John the Baptist that made way for the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 11:13-14
13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
M,
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| User: "nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
22 Feb 2007 08:38:00 AM |
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On Feb 21, 11:28?pm, "Mistylien" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:
"nancy" <n...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1172092062.324446.254970@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 21, 9:30?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 10:36:12 -0800, "nancy" <n...@aol.com>
claimed:
On Feb 20, 12:15 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
wrote:
nancy wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:01?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
~~~~~~~
Neville V. Stevens would rather die than to try to make God wrong.
===>For him "God's Truth" is whatever Neville says it is.
Because he believes in the "God" he created inside his own head.
"FOR EVERY SECTARIAN DOCTRINE THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN
DOCTRINE." -- L.-
~~~~~~~
My entire life I have been one that needed someone.....anyone that I
could cling to.....not so today. 8-)
And yet, cling to someone is what you do.
You seem to be worshipping this man.
~~~~~~~
Not so..... I never thought it would be like this, but for the first
time in my life the Bible makes sense. I do not worship Neville
Stevens, but I sure do thank God for him.
You see, God uses people for His will. Oh, the Bible tells us He
could
use angels or even stones, but in this day, as the days of old, God
uses prophets.
This is today.
*An angel ?that give us insight to God's Word ?is also called a
Messenger.
~~~To my knowledge I have never seen such an angel.
Malachi is the Levite Book. It tells us to watch for the endtime
prophet.
*Malachi is the last book of the Old Testament
~~~ Yes, it is. It is also a book that is qoted in the New Testament,
by Christ, Himself.
* The Endtime prophet was Jesus Christ.
~~~ No, Jesus was the Messiah, He fulfilled all that was require of
Him for His first coming....but not for His last.
Mal 4:5 ?Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the
coming
of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
* Elijah ?was John the Baptist ?that made way for the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 11:13-14
13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to
come.
~~~ Yes, John did come in the spirit of Elijah before the first coming
of Christ.
John did no miracles and he did not fulfill all prophecy.
Luk 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill
shall be brought low, and the crooked shall be straight, and the rough
ways shall be made smooth.
Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."
There is another to come before the ~Day of the Lord~. Elijah, Neville
V. Stevens, is here today. What he is restoring is God's truth that
was hijacked about two thousand years ago.
Mat 17:11 And answering Jesus said to them, Elijah truly shall come
first and restore all things.
~~~~~~~
M,- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
23 Feb 2007 12:46:48 AM |
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"nancy" <nwd53@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1172155080.033420.184300@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 21, 11:28?pm, "Mistylien" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:
"nancy" <n...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1172092062.324446.254970@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 21, 9:30?am, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 10:36:12 -0 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |