| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
10 Jan 2008 02:58:28 PM |
| Object: |
Who Are God's Chosen People? |
Who Are God's Chosen People?
As you study this subject in light of this essay, you
may find that it contradicts what you have been taught.
If this is so, it is because you have been taught a
"system," not the scripture. What does the term "chosen
people" mean? Many think immediately of Israel. Is this
correct? What does the Bible say?
Who was Deuteronomy 7:6 (speaking of 'chosen people')
spoken to? Deuteronomy 6:3-4 reveals it was spoken to
Israel. At that time, Israel consisted of all those that
came out of Egypt with Moses (see Deuteronomy 7:8).
A very similar verse is Deuteronomy 14:2. In 1 Chronicles
16:13, Israel is called "His chosen ones": David wrote
Psalm 33:12; 105:6, 43. And Isaiah records these words
from the Lord: Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:10,20; 44:1. In Isaiah
48:12, the Lord refers to them as "My called." And Daniel
calls them "His chosen people" (Daniel 11:15).
From the above, it can be seen that the phrase,
"chosen people" definitely applied to Israel. But, what was
the composition of Old Testament Israel? According to
the Bible, Israel was made up of:
1) The descendants of Jacob (Exodus 1:1; Joshua 13:6, etc.),
And...
2) Those who joined Israel through circumcision and keeping
the law (Exodus 12:48ff).
Keeping the covenant was a requirement for all those who
wished to remain a part of Israel (Genesis 17:14, Exodus
12:15,19; 30:32,38; 31:14; Leviticus 7:20-21, 25,27;
17:4,9-10, 14; 18:29; 19:8; and Numbers 15:30-31).
These Scriptures, and many others, show that membership
in the nation of Israel was dependent on obedience to God's
commandments. To disobey God was to lose one's citizenship.
When most people think of Old Testament Israel, they
think exclusively in terms of Israel as a nation. Yet, this
is not the true Biblical meaning of "Israel". The name
"Israel" has always had a twofold significance: one
national, and the other religious. For example Exodus 19:6
and Amos 9:11-12 proclaims that the remnant of Israel
would be largely an entity of religious instead of national
destination. Isaiah says much the same thing (Isaiah
56:7-8).
The primary meaning of "Israel" in the Old Testament
stands for the religious covenant community, the people who
worship God in truth and Spirit. Secondarily, it denotes a
distinct ethnic group or nation which is called to become
spiritual Israel. Decisive for the Old Testament prophets
and their prophecies is the theological quality of the
'people of God,' not their ethnic and political
characteristics.
Contrary to the claims of Hal Lindsey, and other
dispensational authors (Charles Ryrie, etc.), the blessing
of Israel's election was not unconditional. When the
election service is withheld, the election loses its
meaning, and therefore fails. .If Israel ceased to
acknowledge God to be her Lord, then she declared that she
no longer wished to be His people. Her high calling to be
the 'Chosen People' was not the mark of Divine indulgence or
favoritism, but a summons to a task exacting and unceasing,
and election and task were so closely bound together that
she could not have one without the other."
Did Old Testament Israel lose her election? As Paul
would say, "God forbid!" The Old Testament prophesied in
many places that a "remnant" would be saved. The question
is: Of whom was this remnant to consist? According to
Jeremiah 31:31-34, the remnant would be made up of those who
"know the Lord," and whose sins would be forgiven completely
(unlike under the Old Covenant - Hebrews 10:1-4). This was
to be made possible through the initiation of a "new
covenant." This New Covenant (or "Testament" -KJV) was
ratified by Jesus at His crucifixion, shown to His disciples
in symbolic form in the Last Supper (Matthew 26:28, Mark
14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25).
Is New Testament Israel any different from Old Testament
Israel? The Israel of the New Covenant is made up of 1)
those descendants of Jacob who believed in the Messiah
(Matthew 10:6; 15:24; Acts 2:36-41; 21:20, etc.), and, 2)
those who joined Israel through spiritual circumcision and
the keeping of the new "law" (Romans 2:28-29; 13:10; 1
Timothy 1:5).
With the establishment of the New Covenant, physical
descent was no longer a determining factor for entrance into
Israel. Only those who believed in the Messiah could enter
or remain a part of Israel. Let us examine what the Bible
has to say on the subject in Jeremiah 11:16. Verse 17 says
this was directed to "the house of Israel, and the house of
Judah." Read what Hosea says of Israel in Hosea 14:6.
Paul picks up the olive tree motif in Romans 11:17-24.
He says those Jews who rejected the Messiah were themselves
rejected and "broken off" (or cut off, to use the Old
Testament term) from the "olive tree" of Israel (verse 20).
The apostle showed that the only possible way to remain a
citizen of Israel was to believe in Jesus as Messiah. This
citizenship was also offered to the Gentiles on the same
condition. If they would put their faith in the Messiah of
Israel, they would be made fellow citizens of Israel
(Ephesians 2:19). Christ created His church, not beside
Israel, but as the faithful remnant of Israel that inherits
the covenant promises and responsibilities. Christ's church
is not separated from the Israel of God, only from the
Christ-rejecting Jewish nation.
The identification of the church with Israel is explicit
in Peter's first epistle (1 Peter 2:9). Here, Peter
definitively states that those who "believe" in Christ Jesus
(1 Peter 2:7) were the "chosen race" and the "holy nation"
(1 Peter 2:9; compare Exodus 19:6; Deuteronomy 7:6; and
14:2). Only in Christ could Israel as a nation have remained
the true covenant people of God. God's covenant people are
no longer distinguished by racial or territorial
characteristics, but exclusively by their faith in Christ.
And the land we have inherited is a spiritual one. The
spiritual blessings of citizenship in the Israel of God are
ours as servants of Christ, but what of the "unconditional"
land promises of the so-called "Palestinian Covenant"?
Is present Israel a fulfillment of prophesy?
One of the most common assertions of the premillennial
dispensationalist today is that the formation of the State
of Israel in 1948 is proof that the Jews are still "God's
Chosen People," and that He still has prophetic plans for
them. (This has been asserted more vigorously than ever due
to the recent hostilities in the Middle East). It is claimed
that God was at work bringing the Jews back to their
"ancient homeland," and that they have a Biblical right to
claim Palestine as their own. Are these claims correct? Was
the formation of the State of Israel evidence of God's
blessing? Of God's election?
Just what Scriptures do dispensationalists use to
support these claims? How do they come to their conclusions?
As you may know already, the dispensationalist uses what he
calls a "literal hermeneutic." That is, he claims to
interpret the words of the Bible at face value,
understanding them in their "normal," everyday usage and
meaning. This extremely literal hermeneutic is then used to
"interpret" the prophecies of the Old Testament that speak
of the return of God's people to the Holy Land. However,
this literalism is also used as an excuse to ignore the
plain reinterpretation by the New Testament writers of these
very same prophecies. Even when the inspired writers of the
New Testament give a meaning to the Old Testament.
prophecies other than a "literal" one, the dispensationalist
will say that this is not the complete meaning, and that
these prophecies "remain to be realized for Israel."
One of the Scriptures the dispensationalist claims was
fulfilled by the 1948 formation of the State of Israel is
found in Ezekiel 36-37. This prophecy was given to Ezekiel
during the Babylonian captivity (Ezekiel 1:1-2), and
foretold the eventual return of Israel to their land. Tied
in with this prophecy was the prediction of the coming
Messiah (Ezekiel 38), and the inauguration of the New
Covenant. As we know from both secular history and the New
Testament, the people did return to the land and the Messiah
did come and establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28).
Despite this, dispensationalists deny fulfillment of either
of these prophecies, saying they found only a "partial
fulfillment" in Israel's return and Christ's first advent.
They further allege that the re-gathering of Jews to form
the current State of Israel is part of the final
fulfillment. They say the blessings of the "Palestinian
Covenant" are only now coming into existence. The promises
of such passages as Deuteronomy 30 are touted as "Scriptural
basis" for Israel's re-gathering. How should we answer such
claims?
According to Deuteronomy 30:1-8, a necessary condition
for the re-gathering of Israel to Palestine was returning to
the Lord (verses 2-3). Based on this clear passage of
Scripture, it can be definitely concluded that the State of
Israel, which now exists, was not formed as a result of the
blessings of this covenant (the "Palestinian Covenant" of
the Scofield Bible).
The Jews of 1948 (except for maybe a few isolated
individuals) did not turn to the Lord. And, to base the
formation of Israel upon their alleged "faithfulness" to
Judaism is to betray a fundamental misunderstanding of what
Judaism is. Some think the Jew of today has a special
advantage, perhaps even salvation without Christ, because
they believe in the God of the Old Testament, and follow the
Old Testament religion. This overlooks the fact that the
religion of the Old Testament was based on making sacrifices
for sins (Leviticus 17:11). It also ignores the statements
of the New Testament that there is absolutely NO salvation
outside Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:10-12), and that the Old
Testament religion was no longer efficacious (Hebrews 7-10).
The Lord of the New Testament is Jesus. This revelation
casts light on who the Lord of the Old Testament is. For
example, Peter quotes Joel 2:32 as being fulfilled in Jesus
(Acts 2:21).
What shall we answer when the dispensationalist claims
the existence of the State of Israel today is "proof" of
God's covenant blessing upon them? With the clear backing of
Scripture, we can say, "NO!" We can then point to
Deuteronomy 30:1-8 as proof that the Israel of today is
definitely not the Israel of the Bible! But, what about the
land promised to Abraham?
Paul, in citing the promise to Abraham, does not limit
the territory to Palestine: It was NOT through the law that
Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would
be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that
comes by faith (Romans 4:13). This is an extension of the
statement of Jesus in Matthew 5:5, in which the meek shall
inherit not merely Palestine, but the earth. As you can see,
the inheritance is for Abraham and his offspring. The
dispensationalist believes Jewish people are entitled to the
inheritance based on their racial extraction or ethnic
heritage. But, Paul counters this idea in Galatians 3:7,29.
In case he hasn't made it clear enough, Paul reiterates for
those who expect some special privilege for physical
descendants of Abraham: "Now to Abraham's and his seed the
promises were made. He does not say, And to seeds' as of
many, but as of one, And to your seed, who is Christ"
(Galatians 3:16). The only way to inherit anything is in
Christ! The Jewish leaders who came to John the Baptist
thought the Kingdom was theirs automatically by virtue of
their heritage. (Matthew 3:9). The Apostle Paul states the
nature of true Jewishness in Romans 2:28,29; 9:6-8; 11:5-7.
The full scope of Israel's prophets was not
nationalistic, but universal, with an increasing cosmic
dimension which took in heaven and earth (Isaiah 65:17;
24:21-23). The writer of Hebrews assures them Abraham was
not looking merely to Palestine for fulfillment of the
promises. He looked for "a better country," and a city
"whose builder and maker is God" (Hebrews 11:10,16). The
continuity of the Old Testament terms and Middle East images
in Hebrews assures the church that God's promise has neither
failed nor been postponed, but is experienced now in Christ
(Hebrews 6:5), And, the land promises made to Abraham are
fulfilled in the universal Kingdom of God.
In conclusion, we have studied the subject of who God's
Chosen People are, and have found that, according to the
Bible, Israel is now composed of all those who believe in
Jesus as Messiah. It is not correct, therefore, to state
that the church has REPLACED Israel. Rather, the church IS
the continuity of the Old Testament Israel of God; it has
only replaced the Jewish nation. There is no more "Jew" and
"Gentile" racial distinctions. All nations are now a part of
Spiritual Israel in Christ. Christ's kingdom is here now in
fullness. All (who were a part of the true spiritual) Israel
were saved and given the inheritance (Romans 11:26).
With the advent of the war in the Middle East, many
people are wondering what is taking place in a prophetic
sense. As preterists, we can say with assurance that the
events now taking place are NOT a fulfillment of prophecy.
We know that all prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70, at which
time the New Covenant was fully established, making the
Kingdom available to all who would believe in Jesus as
Savior (Messiah). Some emotionalism is understandable in
time of war. However, we need not fear the Great Tribulation
or being "left behind" in the Rapture. We know by the time
limitations recorded in the New Testament that these things
have already occurred, and we are living in the new
spiritual promised land.
Speaking of Jews, here is what the scripture says:
Isaiah 65:15, "And ye shall leave your name for a
curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and
call his servants by another name:"
Matthew 21:43, "Therefore say I unto you, The
kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a
nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
The above two verses were fulfilled in 70 AD, when the
Jews were slayed, the temple burned down, and the Kingdom of
God was taken from the Jews and given to all who believe in
Christ.
Other Proof that there is no Jewish Race Today
After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, the nation
of Israel, after the flesh, was scattered throughout the
earth, and lost all tribal relations. This scattering was
made immutable due to the fact that all tribal genealogical
records were destroyed with the Temple in A.D. 70. The
simple fact is that there is no existing Jewish race. Not
only the Bible confirms this (as already revealed), but the
writings of worldly authorities, including Jewish resources
as well. Consider the following quotations:
The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1973): "The Jews As A Race:
The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to
the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropocentric
measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world
indicate that they differ greatly from one another with
respect to all the important physical characteristics" (vol.
12, page 1054).
Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem (1971): "It is a common
assumption, and one that sometimes seems ineradicable even
in the face of evidence to the contrary, that the Jews of
today constitute a race, a homogeneous entity easily
recognizable. From the preceding discussion of the origin
and early history of the Jews, it should be clear that in
the course of their formation as a people and a nation they
had already assimilated a variety of racial strains from
people moving into the general area they occupied. This had
taken place by interbreeding and then by conversion to
Judaism of a considerable number of communities. . . .
"Thus, the diversity of the racial and genetic
attributes of various Jewish colonies of today renders any
unified racial classification of them a contradiction in
terms. Despite this, many people readily accept the notion
that they are a distinct race. This is probably reinforced
by the fact that some Jews are recognizably different in
appearance from the surrounding population. That many can't
be easily identified is overlooked and the stereotype for
some is extended to all - a not uncommon phenomenon"
(Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, 1971, vol. 3, p. 50).
Encyclopedia Americana (1986): "Racial and Ethnic
Considerations. Some theorists have considered the Jews a
distinct race, although this has no factual basis. In every
country in which the Jews lived for a considerable time,
their physical traits came to approximate those of the
indigenous people. Hence the Jews belong to several distinct
racial types, ranging, for example, from fair to dark. Among
the reasons for this phenomenon are voluntary or involuntary
miscegenation and the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism"
(Encyclopedia Americana, 1986, vol. 16, p. 71).
Collier's Encyclopedia (1977): "A common error and
persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a
'race! This is scientifically fallacious, from the
standpoint of both physical and historical tradition.
Investigations by anthropologists have shown that Jews are
by no means uniform in physical character and that they
nearly always reflect the physical and mental
characteristics of the people among whom they live"
(Collier's Encyclopedia, 1977, vol. 13, p. 573).
Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia (1970): "In 1970 the
Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as one
born of a Jewish mother or a convert" (vol. 14, p. 214).
H.G. Wells: "There can be little doubt that the
scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the
Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin
to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political
rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous
proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in
Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being
conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab
tribes who were Jews in the time of Muhammad, and a Turkish
people who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth
century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal
of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic.... The main part
of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea"
(The Outline of History, p. 505).
John Bray: "Many Christians do not know that the vast
majority of so-called Jews in the world today are the
Ashkenazim Jews, while the remainder of them are the
Sephardim Jews. The Ashkenazim Jews have as their background
not the nation of Israel but a country called Khazaria,
which country at one time was the largest country in Europe.
The settlers of Khazaria were Turks and Huns. In A.D. 740
King Bulan of Khazaria decided to adopt the Judaistic
religion for his country. A number of Jews were already
living there. So he converted to Judaism, along with all his
officials, and whole nation ended up being known as a nation
of Jews. In 970, Russia came in and dominated the situation,
and the Khazars were scattered, many of them going down into
Poland and Lithuania. Where at the dawn of our modern
civilization the largest concentration of Jews were found.
Today, the largest percentage of so-called Jews in the world
have as their background this group of people" (This
information is fully documented in detail in John Bray's
book, Israel in Bible Prophecy).
Today, being a Jew simply means that one is of the
Judaistic religion or a convert to it, or else in a
"brotherhood" of those who are. Therefore, being a Jew has
nothing to do with race. We are familiar with a number of
notable figures, such as Sammy Davis, Jr., Elizabeth Taylor,
Madonna, and Tom Arnold, in fact, who became Jews by
conversion to the religion of Judaism.
Therefore, we can clearly and confidently assert that
there is no such thing as a Jewish race, nor ever can there
be. Since the fall of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the
nation of Israel in the first century, the nation calling
itself Israel has consisted of a collection of people from
nearly every nation in the world, with no relation to the
twelve tribes of the historical nation known as Israel. Any
attempts to state that there is, or will ever again be, a
race of Israelites are proven to be futile and of no force.
There is no Jewish race.
What should a follower of Christ think of Jews?
Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one
outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in
the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and
circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in
the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Followers of Christ ARE Jews! Followers of Christ have
not REPLACED Israel…the followers of Christ ARE Israel.
Spiritual Israel.
Final Thoughts
Jews do not practice "Old Testament religion;" they are
not almost Christians, lacking only acceptance of the
Messiah and the New Testament. They do not worship the true
God, not even the “God of the Old Testament” Jesus was quite
adamant: If they had believed Moses, they would believe Him.
(John 5:46-47) They don't believe the Old Testament either.
The religion of Judaism is a Talmudic faith, not Biblical.
Those who support, as the majority of premillenialists do,
the secular nation of Israel at this time, simply because
they are so-called Jews, and claim the premillenial system
relies on Israel as a pivotal aspect of itself, give succor
to apostates and enemies of Christ, and actually encourage
them in their unbelief.
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/chosen.html
--
If the professor on Gilligan's Island can make a radio
out of a coconut, why can't he fix a hole in a boat?
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
11 Jan 2008 12:25:55 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gn1do31j0a3cdce8k5b9odegjm13u4hra9@4ax.com...
Who Are God's Chosen People?
The gospel elect church and the enemy-of-the-gospel elect Jews:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all
Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.
When He gathers "his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to
the other:" (Matt 24:31)
The church goes to the place prepared:
John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have
told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a
place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I
am, there ye may be also.
And His Jewish elect are gathered to Israel:
Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O
my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your
graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
2 John 1:7 (ASV)
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess
not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who Are God's Chosen People? |
12 Jan 2008 08:50:26 AM |
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On Jan 10, 10:25=A0pm, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < =A0SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:gn1do31j0a3cdc=
e8k5b9odegjm13u4hra9@4ax.com...
Who Are God's Chosen People?
The gospel elect church and the enemy-of-the-gospel elect Jews:
Romans 11:25-29
=A0 =A0 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this myst=
ery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so a=
ll
Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: =A0For this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. =A0As concerning th=
e
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, the=
y
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. =A0For the gifts and calling of God ar=
e
without repentance.
When He gathers "his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to
the other:" (Matt 24:31)
The church goes to the place prepared:
John 14:2-3
=A0 =A0 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would=
have
told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a
place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where =
I
am, there ye may be also.
And His Jewish elect are gathered to Israel:
Ezekiel 37:12
=A0 =A0 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Beh=
old, O
my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your
graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
2 John 1:7 (ASV)
=A0 =A0 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that c=
onfess
not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist.
His,
--http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto =A0 =A0 =A0 Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a=
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
This movie has already been done. It was called The Night of the
Living Dead.
.
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| User: "Mordecai mldavisplease dont" |
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| Title: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
11 Jan 2008 03:30:40 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture" into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises given to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though "Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor, has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said, not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
11 Jan 2008 06:40:57 AM |
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"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor, has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said, not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mordecai mldavisplease dont" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
12 Jan 2008 05:28:24 AM |
|
|
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor, has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said, not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah and
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the "failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
The reason I bothered to speak is I am dedicated ... because I am motivated by
the most high - towards this new covenant of Jeremiah.
And I am motivated towards it because the most high spoke and that word he spoke
motivated me and directed me ... in a complex pattern of psychological choices
and desires - until it came upon and built upon this specific foundation.
Thus I am aware that the word of the most high goes out and accomplishes what it
was sent out to do ... because I WATCHED it with interest and wonder, in my own
life.
And as a matter of interest - I was curious as to what the NT said on this
subject.
The subject is dealt with several times, the most intricate study is found in
the book of revelation.
The amount of effort which the NT spend on this subject says that those who
wrote the NT were very intrigued with this subject.
However, none of this is going to help Pastor Dave.
You see - he has not been taught HOW to seek the truth.
He starts with a logical model with certain assumptions - he builds the model
and makes certain conclusions - then he finds that which does not fit and he
tries to make it fit.
He goes to ... incredible lengths to make it fit.
If the promises to israel are not null and void, then the events in 70 CE and
again in 132 CE are not an indication of the end of the age.
If they are not, then his entire assumptions are false.
So he goes and looks at his assumptions - say "But my assumptions are sound,
there is NO OTHER WAY to read them ... ergo the events against the Jews is wrong
.... and it does not matter how much evidence you present, he is not going to
believe it.
If his assumptions are correct, AND his logic is correct, THEN his conclusions
will be correct.
If his conclusions are false ... then either his assumptions are false, or his
logic is false.
ONE fact overturns the most intricate, most thoroughly thought out theory.
The wise man, having a child like disposition of being open to the truth - will
look again.
The fool being schooled in "I know the answers" is incapable of looking.
Unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
I knew, before I began, that there was no way to reach him. He has too much
pain, and too much resources built into his model.
In hurt at his rejection for believing an unpopular doctrine - he has held
stubbornly to the truth as he sees it.
But perhaps, the truth he seeks is not the path he has walked.
I can only hope that he considers - and takes his own love of truth - and
chooses another path.
However, regardless - let me conclude - Am Israel Hai, the people of Israel live
.... and there is ONE people of Israel, they are referred to as ONE. not plural.
This then, is the answer to most of the problems with his ideas.
There is only ONE people of Israel.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
12 Jan 2008 10:06:20 AM |
|
|
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4788A458.6D4F4ED0@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to
Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain
things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of
Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises
given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor,
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said,
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the
nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is
my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah and
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he
went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead
brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the
"failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
There was no failure. The new covenant is a work in progress and it will be
established after the judgment. In the interim the law is unchanged:
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Christians are free from its condemnation (Rom 8:1-2), and the Jews are
to observe it:
Galatians 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a
debtor to do the whole law.
The not knowing the day of His coming (Lk 19:44) determined that it would
come through the gentiles, not through the Jews.
The reason I bothered to speak is I am dedicated ... because I am
motivated by
the most high - towards this new covenant of Jeremiah.
And I am motivated towards it because the most high spoke and that word he
spoke
motivated me and directed me ... in a complex pattern of psychological
choices
and desires - until it came upon and built upon this specific foundation.
Thus I am aware that the word of the most high goes out and accomplishes
what it
was sent out to do ... because I WATCHED it with interest and wonder, in
my own
life.
And as a matter of interest - I was curious as to what the NT said on this
subject.
The subject is dealt with several times, the most intricate study is found
in
the book of revelation.
The amount of effort which the NT spend on this subject says that those
who
wrote the NT were very intrigued with this subject.
However, none of this is going to help Pastor Dave.
You see - he has not been taught HOW to seek the truth.
He starts with a logical model with certain assumptions - he builds the
model
and makes certain conclusions - then he finds that which does not fit and
he
tries to make it fit.
He goes to ... incredible lengths to make it fit.
If the promises to israel are not null and void, then the events in 70 CE
and
again in 132 CE are not an indication of the end of the age.
If they are not, then his entire assumptions are false.
So he goes and looks at his assumptions - say "But my assumptions are
sound,
there is NO OTHER WAY to read them ... ergo the events against the Jews is
wrong
... and it does not matter how much evidence you present, he is not going
to
believe it.
If his assumptions are correct, AND his logic is correct, THEN his
conclusions
will be correct.
If his conclusions are false ... then either his assumptions are false, or
his
logic is false.
ONE fact overturns the most intricate, most thoroughly thought out theory.
The wise man, having a child like disposition of being open to the truth -
will
look again.
The fool being schooled in "I know the answers" is incapable of looking.
Unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the kingdom of
heaven.
I knew, before I began, that there was no way to reach him. He has too
much
pain, and too much resources built into his model.
In hurt at his rejection for believing an unpopular doctrine - he has held
stubbornly to the truth as he sees it.
But perhaps, the truth he seeks is not the path he has walked.
I can only hope that he considers - and takes his own love of truth - and
chooses another path.
However, regardless - let me conclude - Am Israel Hai, the people of
Israel live
... and there is ONE people of Israel, they are referred to as ONE. not
plural.
This then, is the answer to most of the problems with his ideas.
There is only ONE people of Israel.
There is one people of Israel, the house of Jacob, renamed Israel, his
natural and adopted children. The gentiles are coming in as adopted
children.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promise of G_d to Abraham? |
12 Jan 2008 03:20:19 PM |
|
|
On Jan 12, 8:06=A0am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message=
news:4788A458.6D4F4ED0@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get th=
e
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his=
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to
Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation =A0... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of th=
is
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise=
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in a=
ll
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will=
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain
things,
and one outcome of this is that =A0we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of
Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture=
"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises
given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss yo=
ur
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor,=
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said,=
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did=
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the
nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reali=
ty
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:=
Romans 11:25-29
=A0 =A0 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. =A0An=
d so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Si=
on
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: =A0For this =
is
my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. =A0As concerning=
the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. =A0For the gifts and calling of God=
are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto =A0 =A0 =A0 Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God a=
s
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the=
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah a=
nd
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the=
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he
went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead
brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the
"failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the=
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in th=
e
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
There was no failure. The new covenant is a work in progress and it will b=
e
established after the judgment. In the interim the law is unchanged:
Matthew 5:18
=A0 =A0 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or =
one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
dum, dum, dittilie dum, then why did Jesus prevent the ***** from
being stoned to death according to the law (Torah)? Why did Jesus not
agree that loving your neighbor only applied to Jews and not non-Jews,
as the Torah teaches? The Jews almost universally reject Jesus
because he presumed to change the Torah, which according to Torah
itself is the sure sign of a false prophet. Do you doubt that Jesus
did change the Torah that the Jews had received?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promise of G_d to Abraham? |
13 Jan 2008 07:33:43 AM |
|
|
<pjmutnick@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1947dc56-4b13-4d43-89d8-2a2dadb4114e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 12, 8:06 am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
messagenews:4788A458.6D4F4ED0@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get
the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to
Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of
this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in
all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain
things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of
Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret
scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises
given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss
your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor,
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said,
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the
nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or
reality
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And
so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of
Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is
my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning
the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God
are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God
as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah
and
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he
went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead
brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the
"failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in
the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
There was no failure. The new covenant is a work in progress and it will
be
established after the judgment. In the interim the law is unchanged:
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
^dum, dum, dittilie dum, then why did Jesus prevent the ***** from
^being stoned to death according to the law (Torah)?
Have you read the Torah?
Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he
that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the
adulteress shall surely be put to death.
To let one party go and kill the other is Torah?
Read it again, they let her go.
He advised them to act according to the law, and added to let who was
without sin cast the first stone. "He that is without sin among you, let him
first cast a stone at her" (John 8:7).
His compassion did not violate the law, or the Lamb would not have been
without blemish.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promise of G_d to Abraham? |
13 Jan 2008 08:30:52 AM |
|
|
On Jan 13, 5:33=A0am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<pjmutn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1947dc56-4b13-4d43-89d8-2a2dadb4114e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 12, 8:06 am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
messagenews:4788A458.6D4F4ED0@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get
the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, h=
is
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to
Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of
this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promi=
se
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in=
all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew wi=
ll
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, w=
e
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain
things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of
Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside=
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret
scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises
given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss
your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancesto=
r,
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has sai=
d,
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also d=
id
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the
nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or
reality
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promise=
s:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part i=
s
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And=
so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of
Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this i=
s
my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning
the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election=
,
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God
are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God=
as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including t=
he
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah=
and
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got t=
he
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he=
went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead
brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the
"failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to t=
he
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in
the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
There was no failure. The new covenant is a work in progress and it will=
be
established after the judgment. In the interim the law is unchanged:
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
^dum, dum, dittilie dum, then why did Jesus prevent the ***** from
^being stoned to death according to the law (Torah)?
Have you read the Torah?
Leviticus 20:10
=A0 =A0 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even=
he
that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the
adulteress shall surely be put to death.
To let one party go and kill the other is Torah?
Read it again, they let her go.
He advised them to act according to the law, and added to let who was
without sin cast the first stone. "He that is without sin among you, let h=
im
first cast a stone at her" (John 8:7).
He did NOT advise them to act according to Torah. He changed the
Torah, or, as you say, he added to Torah, and according to the Torah,
as the Jews interpret it, that is the sign of a false prophet. "He
that is without sin..." is NOT in the Torah.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promise of G_d to Abraham? |
15 Jan 2008 03:59:21 AM |
|
|
<pjmutnick@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7c2cd920-4782-44bc-a95e-caa5bad8770e@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 13, 5:33 am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<pjmutn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1947dc56-4b13-4d43-89d8-2a2dadb4114e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 12, 8:06 am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
messagenews:4788A458.6D4F4ED0@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get
the
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son,
his
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to
Abraham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation ... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of
this
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his
promise
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in
all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew
will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways,
we
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain
things,
and one outcome of this is that we seek and strive and achieve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of
Israel,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret
scripture"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises
given
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss
your
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my
ancestor,
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has
said,
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also
did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the
nature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or
reality
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his
promises:
Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part
is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And
so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of
Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this
is
my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning
the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the
election,
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God
are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God
as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including
the
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah
and
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got
the
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he
went to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead
brought the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the
"failure."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to
the
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in
the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
There was no failure. The new covenant is a work in progress and it will
be
established after the judgment. In the interim the law is unchanged:
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
^dum, dum, dittilie dum, then why did Jesus prevent the ***** from
^being stoned to death according to the law (Torah)?
Have you read the Torah?
Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he
that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the
adulteress shall surely be put to death.
To let one party go and kill the other is Torah?
Read it again, they let her go.
He advised them to act according to the law, and added to let who was
without sin cast the first stone. "He that is without sin among you, let
him
first cast a stone at her" (John 8:7).
^He did NOT advise them to act according to Torah. He changed the
^Torah, or, as you say, he added to Torah, and according to the ^Torah,
^as the Jews interpret it, that is the sign of a false prophet. "He
^that is without sin..." is NOT in the Torah.
He didn't change anything.
He said they should stone her. It is the "they" in Torah that disuaded the
ones accusing her from proceeding.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Debra" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
15 Jan 2008 04:06:56 PM |
|
|
On Jan 12, 3:28=EF=BF=BDam, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in messa=
ge
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get the=
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, his =
only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to Abraha=
m.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation =EF=BF=BD..=
.. an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of thi=
s
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promise =
onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in al=
l
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew will
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we a=
re
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain thi=
ngs,
and one outcome of this is that =EF=BF=BDwe seek and strive and achiev=
e.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of Israe=
l,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside yo=
ur
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scripture"=
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises giv=
en
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss you=
r
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor, =
has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said, =
not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also did
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the nat=
ure
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or realit=
y is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises:
Romans 11:25-29
=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignoran=
t of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. =EF=BF=
=BDAnd so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sio=
n
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: =EF=BF=BDFor =
this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. =EF=BF=BDAs conce=
rning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, t=
hey
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. =EF=BF=BDFor the gifts and calling o=
f God are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Preparing the way of =
the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as=
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the c=
oncept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah and=
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he wen=
t to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead broug=
ht the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the "failure=
.."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in the
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
The reason I bothered to speak is I am dedicated ... because I am motivate=
d by
the most high - towards this new covenant of Jeremiah.
And I am motivated towards it because the most high spoke and that word he=
spoke
motivated me and directed me ... in a complex pattern of psychological cho=
ices
and desires - until it came upon and built upon this specific foundation.
Thus I am aware that the word of the most high goes out and accomplishes w=
hat it
was sent out to do ... because I WATCHED it with interest and wonder, in m=
y own
life.
And as a matter of interest - I was curious as to what the NT said on this=
subject.
The subject is dealt with several times, the most intricate study is found=
in
the book of revelation.
The amount of effort which the NT spend on this subject says that those wh=
o
wrote the NT were very intrigued with this subject.
However, none of this is going to help Pastor Dave.
You see - he has not been taught HOW to seek the truth.
He starts with a logical model with certain assumptions - he builds the mo=
del
and makes certain conclusions - then he finds that which does not fit and =
he
tries to make it fit.
He goes to ... incredible lengths to make it fit.
If the promises to israel are not null and void, then the events in 70 CE =
and
again in 132 CE are not an indication of the end of the age.
If they are not, then his entire assumptions are false.
So he goes and looks at his assumptions - say "But my assumptions are soun=
d,
there is NO OTHER WAY to read them ... ergo the events against the Jews is=
wrong
... and it does not matter how much evidence you present, he is not going =
to
believe it.
If his assumptions are correct, AND his logic is correct, THEN his conclus=
ions
will be correct.
If his conclusions are false ... then either his assumptions are false, or=
his
logic is false.
ONE fact overturns the most intricate, most thoroughly thought out theory.=
The wise man, having a child like disposition of being open to the truth -=
will
look again.
The fool being schooled in "I know the answers" is incapable of looking.
Unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the kingdom of hea=
ven.
I knew, before I began, that there was no way to reach him. He has too muc=
h
pain, and too much resources built into his model.
In hurt at his rejection for believing an unpopular doctrine - he has held=
stubbornly to the truth as he sees it.
But perhaps, the truth he seeks is not the path he has walked.
I can only hope that he considers - and takes his own love of truth - and
chooses another path.
However, regardless - let me conclude - Am Israel Hai, the people of Israe=
l live
... and there is ONE people of Israel, they are referred to as ONE. not pl=
ural.
This then, is the answer to most of the problems with his ideas.
There is only ONE people of Israel.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is=
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I agree Mordecai!
Debra
.
|
|
|
| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: What is the promice of G_d to Abraham? |
15 Jan 2008 05:36:27 PM |
|
|
On Jan 15, 5:06 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 12, 3:28=EF=BF=BDam, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in mes=
sage
news:47873740.4EC61FC@internode.on.net...
Pastor Dave wrote:
This is the key question - if you ask the right question - you get t=
he
right answer.
There were many promises to Abraham.
Some are to the entire earth.
Some are to his many children
Some are not.
One in particular is to bring a covenant to Abraham onto his son, hi=
s only
son, Isaac.
This promise has continually been kept - not for Israel, but to Abra=
ham.
He himself describes this promise to a thousand generation =EF=BF=BD=
.... an
everlasting promise.
Do you claim that the fulfilment of this earth is a REPUDIATION of t=
his
promise by the most high?
I can testify that the most high has written the words of his promis=
e onto
my heart.
He has shown me those words ...
The most high motivates, we choose.
You can ALSO see the results in the success of the Jewish people in =
all
areas in which they compete with non Jews.
Exactly as he has said ... for when we do evil, then the non Jew wil=
l
become greater than us financially, but when we walk in his ways, we=
are
superior in this area.
This is because the words on our heart motivate us to seek certain t=
hings,
and one outcome of this is that =EF=BF=BDwe seek and strive and achi=
eve.
I do not care what your stand is ... if you have the promises of Isr=
ael,
you will be greater than us, and greater than those who are outside =
your
promises
If you do not have said promises - you will not.
That moves the argument out of "How the hell do I interpret scriptur=
e"
into
"This is the real world - what is G_d doing here?"
And in every test, the outcome is that Israel retains the promises g=
iven
to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now it is Sabbath. I have neither time, nor inclination to discuss y=
our
beliefs.
However, I thought "It is sabbath -a time to rejoice" and I though
"Should
I not give a blessing to another on such a day?
Here is my blessing -
The Most high is honourable and for the sake of Abraham, my ancestor=
, has
continued the vows he has made.
It is only his honour which has made him say - and do as he has said=
, not
the works of myself (who is unworthy), nor my ancestors (who also di=
d
evil), only his honour.
You ought to know the honour of my G_d.
Thus I have spoken to you - to bless you with the knowledge of the n=
ature
and the morality of the most high.
He does not renege on his promises ...
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or real=
ity is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
And the Christian Scriptures agree. He does not renege on his promises=
:
Romans 11:25-29
=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignor=
ant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is=
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. =EF=
=BF=BDAnd so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of S=
ion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: =EF=BF=BDFo=
r this is my
covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. =EF=BF=BDAs con=
cerning the
gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,=
they
are beloved for the fathers' sakes. =EF=BF=BDFor the gifts and calling=
of God are
without repentance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Preparing the way o=
f the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God =
as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
I am well aware of many of the NT verses on this subject - including the=
concept
that JC came to being the covenant of jeremiah (which is only to Judah a=
nd
Israel) and FAILED. If he had succeeded, then only we would have got the=
covenant. Ergo the failure was deliberate. Because of this failure, he w=
ent to
the cross and instead of bringing said covenant of jeremiah, instead bro=
ught the
covenant of the cross. And thus the covenant of the cross was the "failu=
re."
As the covenant of the cross was for all, and supposedly superior to the=
covenant of Israel, - this 'failure' is fantastic.
However, this does not mean that he will not succeed, that will be in th=
e
future.
In fact - it says he will do so.
The reason I bothered to speak is I am dedicated ... because I am motiva=
ted by
the most high - towards this new covenant of Jeremiah.
And I am motivated towards it because the most high spoke and that word =
he spoke
motivated me and directed me ... in a complex pattern of psychological c=
hoices
and desires - until it came upon and built upon this specific foundation=
..
Thus I am aware that the word of the most high goes out and accomplishes=
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