| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Western World" |
| Date: |
30 Nov 2004 08:43:33 PM |
| Object: |
Why Christians were persecuted |
In the classical world there was not only a celebration of this life, it
was one of religious diversity and tolerance. From backyard cults to
mystery religions to lukewarm emperor cults people were engaaged in all
kinds of festivities and rituals.
When Christianity came on the scene it was first considered another
mystery cult with the same themes found in paganism; virgin births and
godmen. Mithraism also had a virgin born godman-savior who died and rose
after three days.
But the empire soon found out that Christianity was different than the
rest. In a world where people were tolerant of other religious beliefs,
Christianity said that all religions but itself were demonic and false.
With these claims, Christianity became, in an empire of religious
diversity, an uncivilizing religion.
Consequently, some emperors decided that Christianity was bad for the
stability of the empire. It is for this reason that Gibbon in his great
work on the decline of the Roman Empire, makes a case for Christianity
being a factor in it's fall.
It was not religious intolerance that prompted the emperors, it was
Christianity's religious intolerance and lack of Roman values of
religious tolerance cultural civility that brought about the
persecutions. For the better part of a millenium, different religious
beliefs had lived side by side with no problems. For the better part of
a millenium, paganism was an attiude of religious tolerance. When
Christianity came on the scene, all the civility and tolerance that Rome
had embraced, was put in jeopardy.
There were only two major persecutions of Christians. Decius and
Diocletian, both hell-bent on keeping Roman traditions alive, were
religious conservatives. The fables we hear about Christians being
thrown to the Lions in the Forum are not based in fact. They are
Christian propaganda.
Diocletian's persecutions never demanded a Christian to denounce his
religion. Cultural myth would have us think this was so but the fact is
that Christians were never required to denounce their faith; only to
accept others. To the emperors, religious tolerance was a stabilizing
factor in the empire. What was required was to accpt other religions by
sacrificing.
But Christianity was fanatical about exclusivity and could not tolerate
other faiths.
In the end, after 15 centuries of religious intolerance and barbarity,
paganism won because the modern principles of liberty incorporate
religious liberty for all. This was a great virtue of the Roman Empire
and now we find it in most western constitutions.
===========================
===========================
CHRISTIANITY
RISE BY DICTATORSHIP
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RL/
ARCHEOLOGY:
Captivity and Exodus are not based in fact
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/DECONSTRUCTING/index.html
.
|
|
| User: "Roger Pearse" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
04 Dec 2004 03:53:15 PM |
|
|
(Western World) wrote in message news:<13447-41AD2FD5-437@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net>...
In the classical world there was not only a celebration of this life, it
was one of religious diversity and tolerance.
And nailing head down anyone who disagreed.
From backyard cults to mystery religions to lukewarm emperor cults
people were engaaged in all kinds of festivities and rituals.
I'm not sure whether you are endorsing all this superstition, and if
so, why?
When Christianity came on the scene it was first considered another
mystery cult with the same themes found in paganism; virgin births and
godmen.
By whom? In which source?
Mithraism also had a virgin born godman-savior who died and rose
after three days.
I'm afraid this is a vulgar mistake. No such story is to be found in
ancient literature.
But the empire soon found out that Christianity was different than the
rest. In a world where people were tolerant of other religious beliefs,
Christianity said that all religions but itself were demonic and false.
As Jews did. The Romans perceived Christians initially as Jews. But
I think you too believe all religious positions other than your own
are demonic and false, so I'm unclear what point you're making here
<smile>.
With these claims, Christianity became, in an empire of religious
diversity, an uncivilizing religion.
This claim is not made in antiquity. I think you're merely accusing
Christians of holding values not popular with the powerful of today.
Well, they weren't popular with the powerful of then either, but this
hardly makes them wrong or wicked, does it?
Consequently, some emperors decided that Christianity was bad for the
stability of the empire.
I think we might reasonably ask whether any ancient text says this, or
whether this is a piece of invention. Christian became illegal; how
is not known.
It is for this reason that Gibbon in his great
work on the decline of the Roman Empire, makes a case for Christianity
being a factor in it's fall.
Anti-Christian writers often do that; intolerance makes people write
that sort of thing.
It was not religious intolerance that prompted the emperors,
I'm not sure what definition of 'religious intolerance' would not fit
this situation rather well, actually.
it was Christianity's religious intolerance and lack of Roman values of
religious tolerance cultural civility that brought about the
persecutions.
Hitler would have likewise said that Jewish intolerance and lack of
German values brought about the death-camps. Don't do this sort of
argument: it's very nasty.
For the better part of a millenium, different religious
beliefs had lived side by side with no problems.
Apart from when they did not, of course.
For the better part of a millenium, paganism was an attiude of
religious tolerance. When Christianity came on the scene, all
the civility and tolerance that Rome had embraced, was put in jeopardy.
That can happen when a society adopts bigotry.
There were only two major persecutions of Christians. Decius and
Diocletian, both hell-bent on keeping Roman traditions alive, were
religious conservatives. The fables we hear about Christians being
thrown to the Lions in the Forum are not based in fact. They are
Christian propaganda.
Nonsense.
Diocletian's persecutions never demanded a Christian to denounce his
religion.
You posted elsewhere a list of citations from Eusebius etc showing the
opposite.
Cultural myth would have us think this was so but the fact is
that Christians were never required to denounce their faith; only to
accept others. To the emperors, religious tolerance was a stabilizing
factor in the empire. What was required was to accpt other religions by
sacrificing.
And so abandon their own.
But Christianity was fanatical about exclusivity and could not tolerate
other faiths.
Nor, it seems, can you.
In the end, after 15 centuries of religious intolerance and barbarity,
paganism won because the modern principles of liberty incorporate
religious liberty for all.
Including people at Waco?
This was a great virtue of the Roman Empire
and now we find it in most western constitutions.
Not from pagan origins, but from Christian ones.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
05 Dec 2004 10:57:21 AM |
|
|
Roger Pearse wrote:
Tales_of_the_Western_World@webtv.net (Western World) wrote in message
news:<13447-41AD2FD5-437@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net>...
In the classical world there was not only a celebration of this life, it
was one of religious diversity and tolerance.
And nailing head down anyone who disagreed.
From backyard cults to mystery religions to lukewarm emperor cults
people were engaaged in all kinds of festivities and rituals.
I'm not sure whether you are endorsing all this superstition, and if
so, why?
When Christianity came on the scene it was first considered another
mystery cult with the same themes found in paganism; virgin births and
godmen.
By whom? In which source?
Mithraism also had a virgin born godman-savior who died and rose
after three days.
I'm afraid this is a vulgar mistake. No such story is to be found in
ancient literature.
Such ignorance! Hercules for one, who is saved from his funeral pyre by
Zeus and who ascends, Jesus-like to heaven. Born of the virgin Alcmena and
Zeus.
But the empire soon found out that Christianity was different than the
rest. In a world where people were tolerant of other religious beliefs,
Christianity said that all religions but itself were demonic and false.
As Jews did. The Romans perceived Christians initially as Jews. But
I think you too believe all religious positions other than your own
are demonic and false, so I'm unclear what point you're making here
<smile>.
With these claims, Christianity became, in an empire of religious
diversity, an uncivilizing religion.
This claim is not made in antiquity. I think you're merely accusing
Christians of holding values not popular with the powerful of today.
Well, they weren't popular with the powerful of then either, but this
hardly makes them wrong or wicked, does it?
Consequently, some emperors decided that Christianity was bad for the
stability of the empire.
I think we might reasonably ask whether any ancient text says this, or
whether this is a piece of invention. Christian became illegal; how
is not known.
It is for this reason that Gibbon in his great
work on the decline of the Roman Empire, makes a case for Christianity
being a factor in it's fall.
Anti-Christian writers often do that; intolerance makes people write
that sort of thing.
It was not religious intolerance that prompted the emperors,
I'm not sure what definition of 'religious intolerance' would not fit
this situation rather well, actually.
it was Christianity's religious intolerance and lack of Roman values of
religious tolerance cultural civility that brought about the
persecutions.
Hitler would have likewise said that Jewish intolerance and lack of
German values brought about the death-camps. Don't do this sort of
argument: it's very nasty.
For the better part of a millenium, different religious
beliefs had lived side by side with no problems.
Apart from when they did not, of course.
For the better part of a millenium, paganism was an attiude of
religious tolerance. When Christianity came on the scene, all
the civility and tolerance that Rome had embraced, was put in jeopardy.
That can happen when a society adopts bigotry.
There were only two major persecutions of Christians. Decius and
Diocletian, both hell-bent on keeping Roman traditions alive, were
religious conservatives. The fables we hear about Christians being
thrown to the Lions in the Forum are not based in fact. They are
Christian propaganda.
Nonsense.
Diocletian's persecutions never demanded a Christian to denounce his
religion.
You posted elsewhere a list of citations from Eusebius etc showing the
opposite.
Cultural myth would have us think this was so but the fact is
that Christians were never required to denounce their faith; only to
accept others. To the emperors, religious tolerance was a stabilizing
factor in the empire. What was required was to accpt other religions by
sacrificing.
And so abandon their own.
But Christianity was fanatical about exclusivity and could not tolerate
other faiths.
Nor, it seems, can you.
In the end, after 15 centuries of religious intolerance and barbarity,
paganism won because the modern principles of liberty incorporate
religious liberty for all.
Including people at Waco?
This was a great virtue of the Roman Empire
and now we find it in most western constitutions.
Not from pagan origins, but from Christian ones.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
06 Dec 2004 10:45:38 AM |
|
|
"wbarwell" <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:covhn3$g9m@library2.airnews.net...
Roger Pearse wrote:
<huge snip>
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Bush - the President, Kerry - a Senator
Cheerful Charlie
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sean C" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
01 Dec 2004 01:32:20 AM |
|
|
In article <13447-41AD2FD5-437@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net>, Western
World <Tales_of_the_Western_World@webtv.net> wrote:
They ran out of chew toys for the lions?
Sean C
.
|
|
|
| User: "Deoxyribo Nuclayton Acid" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
01 Dec 2004 07:29:01 PM |
|
|
"Sean C" <redhawk@/burnspammersalive/hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:011220040232201956%redhawk@/burnspammersalive/hvc.rr.com...
In article <13447-41AD2FD5-437@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net>, Western
World <Tales_of_the_Western_World@webtv.net> wrote:
They ran out of chew toys for the lions?
Yes...and unlike Jews, the lions get just that little bit extra skin!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Western World" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
01 Dec 2004 02:40:10 AM |
|
|
redhawk@/burnspammersalive/hvc.rr.com (Sean=A0C) writes:
They ran out of chew toys for the lions?
HAW!
That is funny!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
CHRISTIANITY
RISE BY DICTATORSHIP
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RL/
ARCHEOLOGY:
Captivity and Exodus are not based in fact
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/DECONSTRUCTING/index.html
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "gaffo" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
01 Dec 2004 10:39:16 PM |
|
|
Western World wrote:
In the classical world there was not only a celebration of this life, it
was one of religious diversity and tolerance. From backyard cults to
mystery religions to lukewarm emperor cults people were engaaged in all
kinds of festivities and rituals.
When Christianity came on the scene it was first considered another
mystery cult with the same themes found in paganism; virgin births and
godmen. Mithraism also had a virgin born godman-savior who died and rose
after three days.
But the empire soon found out that Christianity was different than the
rest. In a world where people were tolerant of other religious beliefs,
Christianity said that all religions but itself were demonic and false.
With these claims, Christianity became, in an empire of religious
diversity, an uncivilizing religion.
*****.
Consequently, some emperors decided that Christianity was bad for the
stability of the empire.
no ***** sherlock, but not because of the above pap. The Emperors
DEMANDED to be worshiped as God or God's appointed.
ONLY the Jews and Christians refused to do such. All other religions had
no qualms in worshiping the Emperors.
Jews were wiped out in 70AD and later in 138AD...........soon they
numbered so few that they were not a threat or on the Roman radar.
Christians were the inverse. Few in number at first and so invisible -
latter too many to ignore and few would bow to the demand of Rome WRT
the Caeser.
I suspect that fact that Christians worshiped a dead man as a God
(unlike the Jews), and yet refused to worship the living ruler of the
Roman Empire was often seen as offending the honour of the Emperor and
Rome herself. The result was easy to predict.
It is for this reason that Gibbon in his great
work on the decline of the Roman Empire, makes a case for Christianity
being a factor in it's fall.
It was not religious intolerance that prompted the emperors, it was
Christianity's religious intolerance and lack of Roman values of
religious tolerance cultural civility that brought about the
persecutions.
I dissagree. it is ONLY the issue of fealty to the Emperor as King over
Christ.
Had Christians allowed themselves to include the Emperor to be worshiped
as a God equal to Jesus, they would not have been persecuted.
Nearly all christians finally did just that during the Middle Ages.
Devine Rights of Kings doctrine ruled for centuries.
For the better part of a millenium, different religious
beliefs had lived side by side with no problems.
such as?
Jewish and Greek religion did not get along that well. Roman IS Greek.
did the Etruscan Religion get along with Greek Roman?
For the better part of
a millenium, paganism was an attiude of religious tolerance.
"paganism" - is crude word given to "heathens" by the Christians. It
included hundreds of differing Cults and Religious doctrines.
........might as well say "infidel" "heretic" or
"gentile".............means nothing more than "the others"
When
Christianity came on the scene, all the civility and tolerance that Rome
had embraced, was put in jeopardy.
It was Rome's intolerance for NOT allowing their citizens to NOT worship
the Emperor!
A fealty oath to serve the Empire as a citizen should have been enough.
A personal oath to worship some chuck dictator is asking too much - even
in an Empire.
There were only two major persecutions of Christians. Decius and
Diocletian,
wrong!.........Nero, Domecian, Commodus, Marcus Arelious....more I'm sure.
why do you think Revelation was written during the reign of Domecian?
Because he was such a Boy Scout toward the Christains?
both hell-bent on keeping Roman traditions alive, were
religious conservatives.
All dictators are Conservatives. They stay in power that way.
The fables we hear about Christians being
thrown to the Lions in the Forum are not based in fact. They are
Christian propaganda.
*****.
Diocletian's persecutions never demanded a Christian to denounce his
religion. Cultural myth would have us think this was so but the fact is
that Christians were never required to denounce their faith;
true
only to
accept others.
no not true.
they were called upon to recognize the Emperor as God (or his
representative).
Most Christians denied to bend on this issue. The few that did were spared.
To the emperors, religious tolerance was a stabilizing
factor in the empire.
Because the Roman Citizens accepted that the Emporer was a God!
What was required was to accpt other religions by
sacrificing.
*****. what was required was absolute service and worship of the
ruler of the Empire - as is the case in all Fascist States since the
begining of time.
"acceptance" of other faiths is irrelivant.
But Christianity was fanatical about exclusivity
no, that was more the jews. no matter - irrelvant.
and could not tolerate
other faiths.
irrelvant.
In the end, after 15 centuries of religious intolerance and barbarity,
paganism won because the modern principles of liberty incorporate
religious liberty for all. This was a great virtue of the Roman Empire
and now we find it in most western constitutions.
There were no Virtues in the Roman Empire.
Unlike the Roman Republic before it.
--
The courts have unanimously (and erroneously) refused to let defense
attorneys argue for nullification, typically by insisting that the jury
has no power to consider what the law should be, and that juries have no
lawful task but to decide whether the defendant broke the law. Yet, in a
fit of sheer inconsistency, the same federal courts of appeals are also
unanimous that it is permissible for prosecutors to urge juries to act
as the "conscience of the community" and use their verdict to "send a
message" about whether society should be willing to tolerate the
defendant's alleged conduct. James J. Duane, "What Message Are We
Sending to Criminal Jurors When We Ask Them to 'Send a Message' With
Their Verdict?," 22 Am. J. Crim. Law 565, 576-79 (1995).
The Sixth Amendment creates a right for the defendant to insist on a
jury to act as a community conscience and protect him from government
oppression, and yet only the State is allowed, when it chooses, to ask
the jury to consider matters of morality and conscience. Id. at 590-602.
Thus have we witnessed a complete perversion of the constitutional
priorities and structure.
One might fairly summarize the case law this way: "You may hope that the
jury will refuse to apply a harsh, unfair, or inequitable law, but you
may not urge them to do so." Steven Lubet, Modern Trial Advocacy 436 (1993)
If the jury feels the law is unjust, we recognize the undisputed power
of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as
given by a judge, and contrary to the evidence...If the jury feels that
the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or that exigent
circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason
which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to
acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision.
4th Circuit Court of Appeals, United States v. Moylan, 1969
[The jury has an] unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in
disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...The
pages of history shine on instances of the jury's exercise of its
prerogative to disregard uncontradicted evidence and instructions of the
judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law.
D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, Unites States v. Dougherty, 1972
It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty...to find the verdict
according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience,
though in direct opposition to the directionof the court.
John Adams, 1771
......it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact, and to refer the law
arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the
subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to
any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the
judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law
and fact.
Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia," 1782
It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the
other hand,presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still
both objects are within your power of decision.....you have a right to
take it upon yourselves to judge of both,and to determine the law as
well as the fact in controversy.
Chief Justice John Jay, Georgia v. Brailsford, 1794
Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction...if
exercising their judgement with discretion and honesty they have a clear
conviction that the charge of the court is wrong.
Alexander Hamilton, 1804
The jury has the power to bring a verdict in the teeth of both the law
and the facts.
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Horning v. District of Columbia, 1920
.
|
|
|
| User: "Western World" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
02 Dec 2004 06:44:28 PM |
|
|
(gaffo) wrote regarding some hollywood version of the
Roman empire; namely the role of emperor worship in the persecution of
Christians
These claims of their importance arent based in fact. For a primer on
the Roman emperors go to http://www.roman-emperors.org and click on the
index.
Emperor worship had nothing to do with it. It was popular in the earlier
periods of the Roman Republic I know that Christian sites say otherwise,
but the historians of the day dont support the Christian proganada of
emperor worship. The historian quoted here was a Christian. The source
from late antiquity posted here support my claim that the Christians
were ordered to sacrifice, not worship any emperor. That is hollywood
fable derived from long standing Christian propaganda.
Diocletian: Edicts Against The Christians
FROM THE CHRISTIAN WRITER EUSEBIUS:
(Hist Ecc. viii 6.) Then as the first decrees were followed by others
commanding that those in prison should be set free, if they would
sacrifice, but that those who refused should be tormented with countless
tortures; who could again at that time count the multitude of .martyrs
throughout each province, and especially throughout Africa and among the
race of the Moors, in Thebais and throughout Egypt, from which having
already gone into other cities and, provinces, they became illustrious
in their martyrdoms.
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 3.) During the second year the war against us
increased greatly. Urbanus was then governor of the province and edicts
were first issued to him, in which it was commanded that all the people
throughout the city should sacrifice and pour out libations to the
idols.
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 4.)...For in the second attack upon us by Maximinus,
in the third year of the persecution against us edicts of the tyrant
were issued for the first time that all the people should offer
sacrifice and that the that the rulers of the city should see to this
diligently and zealously. Heralds went through the whole city of
Caesaream by the orders of the governor, summoning men, women and
children to the temples of the idols, and in addition the chiliarchs
were calling upon each one by name from a roll.
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 9). All at once decrees of Maximinus again got abroad
against everywhere throughout the province. The governors, and in
addition the military prefects, incited by edicts, letters and and
public ordinances the magistrates, together with generals and the city
clerks in all the cities, to fulfill the imperial edicts which commanded
that the altars of the idols should be rebuilt with all zeal and that
all the men, together with the women and children, even infants at the
breast, should offer sacrifice and pour out libations ; and these urged
them anxiously, carefully to make the people taste of the sacrifices ;
and that the viands in the market should be polluted by the libations of
the sacrifices ; and that watches should be stationed before the baths,
so as to defile those who washed in these with the all-abominable
sacrifices
===========================
===========================
CHRISTIANITY
RISE BY DICTATORSHIP
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RL/
ARCHEOLOGY:
Captivity and Exodus are not based in fact
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/DECONSTRUCTING/index.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roger Pearse" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
04 Dec 2004 03:41:43 PM |
|
|
(Western World) wrote in message news:<2520-41AFB6EC-268@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net>...
gaffo@usenet.net (gaffo) wrote regarding some hollywood version of the
Roman empire; namely the role of emperor worship in the persecution of
Christians
The Romans themselves were a bit ambivalent about the idea of
worshipping the emperor, at least initially. I think Augustus tried
to discourage it, but it was taken up eagerly in the East where
emperors had often been saluted as divine in some sense. Later
emperors adopted the Eastern idea. Have a look on google under
'imperial cult' for some sites.
One, <http://pompeii.virginia.edu/icbmap.html> gives details of the
temple of the imperial cult at Pompeii, with the sanctuary of the
Genius of Augustus.
Another <http://janusquirinus.org/essays/Cult.html> discusses how the
imperial cult evolved.
Christians were accused of treason for not participating in the
(largely symbolic) imperial cult.
See the Acts of the Scillitan martyrs, from the official court record:
<http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/scillitan.html>
'And when the proconsul yet again pressed him, and said, "Swear by the
fortune of Caesar," he answered, "Since thou art vainly urgent that,
as thou sayest, I should swear by the fortune of Caesar, and
pretendest not to know who and what I am, hear me declare with
boldness, I am a Christian.' (Martyrdom of Polycarp 10,
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-13.htm#P969_176936).
From Tertullian, Apologeticum 10:1, '"You do not worship the gods,"
you say; "and you do not offer sacrifices for the emperors." Well, we
do not offer sacrifice for others, for the same reason that we do not
for ourselves,-namely, that your gods are not at all the objects of
our worship.' (http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-05.htm#c10).
Lactantius refers to the lost legal handbook of Ulpian, De officiis
proconsularis, and states that one book was devoted to the punishments
to be inflicted on Christians.
Pardon me if I do not seek out others, since I have other things to
do, but this should get you started.
These claims of their importance arent based in fact. For a primer on
the Roman emperors go to http://www.roman-emperors.org and click on the
index.
I'm not sure the author of this site would agree with this position,
tho.
Emperor worship had nothing to do with it. It was popular in the earlier
periods of the Roman Republic.
I think you've tripped over your own words here. After all, in which
portions of the Roman Republic was emperor worship popular? <smile>
Emperor worship a feature of the *imperial* period.
I know that Christian sites say otherwise, but the historians of the
day dont support the Christian proganada of emperor worship.
Which historians have you in mind?
The historian quoted here was a Christian. The source
from late antiquity posted here support my claim that the Christians
were ordered to sacrifice, not worship any emperor.
These sources are Christian, tho. If you assert that Christian
sources are unreliable, can you use them?
Diocletian: Edicts Against The Christians
FROM THE CHRISTIAN WRITER EUSEBIUS:
(Hist Ecc. viii 6.) Then as the first decrees were followed by others
commanding that those in prison should be set free, if they would
sacrifice, but that those who refused should be tormented with countless
tortures; who could again at that time count the multitude of .martyrs
throughout each province, and especially throughout Africa and among the
race of the Moors, in Thebais and throughout Egypt, from which having
already gone into other cities and, provinces, they became illustrious
in their martyrdoms.
This does not discuss the object of sacrifice, tho?
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 3.) During the second year the war against us
increased greatly. Urbanus was then governor of the province and edicts
were first issued to him, in which it was commanded that all the people
throughout the city should sacrifice and pour out libations to the
idols.
Nor this.
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 4.)...For in the second attack upon us by Maximinus,
in the third year of the persecution against us edicts of the tyrant
were issued for the first time that all the people should offer
sacrifice and that the that the rulers of the city should see to this
diligently and zealously. Heralds went through the whole city of
Caesaream by the orders of the governor, summoning men, women and
children to the temples of the idols, and in addition the chiliarchs
were calling upon each one by name from a roll.
Nor this.
(De Mart. Pal. ch. 9). All at once decrees of Maximinus again got abroad
against everywhere throughout the province. The governors, and in
addition the military prefects, incited by edicts, letters and and
public ordinances the magistrates, together with generals and the city
clerks in all the cities, to fulfill the imperial edicts which commanded
that the altars of the idols should be rebuilt with all zeal and that
all the men, together with the women and children, even infants at the
breast, should offer sacrifice and pour out libations ; and these urged
them anxiously, carefully to make the people taste of the sacrifices ;
and that the viands in the market should be polluted by the libations of
the sacrifices ; and that watches should be stationed before the baths,
so as to defile those who washed in these with the all-abominable
sacrifices
Nor this.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Western World" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Christians were persecuted |
02 Dec 2004 06:59:06 PM |
|
|
I wrote:
There were only two major persecutions
of Christians. Decius and Diocletian,
Gaffo wrote:
wrong!.........Nero, Domecian, Commodus,
Marcus Arelious....more I'm sure.
I said -major- persecutions. There were seven periods of persecutions
but only Diocletian and Decius were major.
The empire didnt persecute other religions because they accepted other
faiths for the good of the state.
Christianity came along and said to hate this life and tolerate no other
religion.
After that period, Constantine, Constantius, Valens, Gratian,
Theodosius, Honorius, Arcadius, Theodosius II, Marcian, and Justinian
all persecuted non-christians. They were as bad as Decius and
Diocletian. And Pope Gregory told landwoners that if the peasants
wouldnt convert to Christianity, jack their rents up.
And all the way thru this, "saints" like Ambrose, Augustine and John
Chrysostom pushed for religious intolerance and persecution. Saint
Martin spent his time, when he wasnt at his monastery, buring down
temples and shrines
Look at Justinian! A tyrant of tyrants!
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RLJUSTINIAN/
===========================
===========================
CHRISTIANITY
RISE BY DICTATORSHIP
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RL/
ARCHEOLOGY:
Captivity and Exodus are not based in fact
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/DECONSTRUCTING/index.html
.
|
|
|
|
|

|
Related Articles |
|
|