| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
26 Feb 2006 11:29:53 AM |
| Object: |
Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
Many who deny the words of Jesus, in which He stated
that He would return within that generation, demand
to know about the working of miracles. They ask when
those things happened.
What they miss, due to their ignorance of history,
is that "miracle working" was not an uncommon thing.
It was not uncommon at all. The difference with Jesus,
is that even though He had worked miracles that had
been seen before, even the feeding of many with a small
amount of food. But He also worked miracles that had
not been seen before.
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing, as reported by Tacitus (55?-117?C.E.), the
famous Roman historian, in 'Histories', Book IV, 81.
The interesting part, is that "the Deity" referred to
in this quote, is Jesus Christ.
To quote...
******************* START **********************
"During these months in which Vespasian continued
at Alexandria [in 70C.E.], waiting for the usual set
time of the summer-gales of wind, and stayed for
settled fair weather at sea, many miraculous events
happened: by which the good will of heaven, and a
kind of inclination of the Deity in his favour, was
declared.
A certain man of the vulgar sort at Alexandria,
well known for the decay of his eyes, kneeled down
by him and groaned, and begged of him the cure
of his blindness, as by the admonition of Serapis,
the god which this superstitious nation worships
above others. He also desired that the emperor
would be pleased to put some of his spittle upon
the balls of his eyes. Another infirm man there,
who was lame of his hand, prayed Caesar, as by
the same god's suggestion, to tread upon him
with his foot.
Vespasian at first began to laugh at them, and to
reject them and when they were instant with him,
he sometimes feared he should have the reputation
of a vain person and sometimes, upon the solicitation
of the infirm, he flattered himself and others
flattered him, with the hopes of succeeding. At last
he ordered his physicians to give their opinion,
whether this sort of blindness and lameness were
curable by the art of man or not? The physicians
answered uncertainly, that the one had not the
visual faculty utterly destroyed, and that he might
be restored, if the obstacles were removed; that
the other's limbs were disordered, but if a healing
virtue were made use of, they were capable of being
made whole. Perhaps they say, the gods are willing
to assist, and that the emperor is chosen by divine
interposition.
However, they said at last, that if the cures
succeeded, Caesar would have the glory; if not,
the poor miserable objects would only be laughed at.
Whereupon Vespasian imagined that his good fortune
would be universal, and that nothing on that account
could be incredible; so he looked cheerfully, and in
the sight of the multitude, who stood in great
expectation, he did what they desired him; upon
which the lame hand was recovered, and the blind
man saw immediately. Both these cures
are related to this day by those that were present
and when speaking falsely they will get no reward."
******************** END *********************
The fact is, that Jesus said in Luke 21:20-22, that
when Jerusalem was destroyed, "ALL THINGS
WRITTEN" would "BE FULFILLED" and that
happened in 70 AD.
So while the futurists try to put Daniel into the
future, the fact is, that Daniel was "written". :)
Jesus also said that the Temple would be torn down,
stone by stone and when Rome destroyed Jerusalem
in 70 AD, they burned the Temple and afterward,
tore it apart, stone by stone, to retrieve the melted
gold that ran in between them, thus fulfilling Jesus'
words to the letter!
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
26 Feb 2006 02:22:57 PM |
|
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"Pasta Dave" <> wrote in message ...
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing, as reported by Tacitus (55?-117?C.E.), the
famous Roman historian, in 'Histories', Book IV, 81.
The interesting part, is that "the Deity" referred to
in this quote, is Jesus Christ.
And you know this HOW??
Let's read the article!!
To quote...
******************* START **********************
"During these months in which Vespasian continued
at Alexandria [in 70C.E.], waiting for the usual set
time of the summer-gales of wind, and stayed for
settled fair weather at sea, many miraculous events
happened: by which the good will of heaven, and a
kind of inclination of the Deity in his favour, was
declared.
OOOPS, Diety not named!!
A certain man of the vulgar sort at Alexandria,
well known for the decay of his eyes, kneeled down
by him and groaned, and begged of him the cure
of his blindness, as by the admonition of Serapis,
the god which this superstitious nation worships
above others.
OOOOOPS this man of a vulgar sort, begged to be cured, as by the admonition
of Serapis??
I think there was a temple to Serapis at Alexandria!!
He also desired that the emperor
would be pleased to put some of his spittle upon
the balls of his eyes. Another infirm man there,
who was lame of his hand, prayed Caesar, as by
the same god's suggestion, to tread upon him
with his foot.
OOOOOPS, the lame man prayed Caesar, by the same GOD's Suggestion. The same
God?? Is that Serapis again??
It's amazing. NOT one reference to Jesus Christ, but a direct reference to
Serapis, yet Davey Boy, sees it as being Jesus??
h him,
he sometimes feared he should have the reputation
of a vain person and sometimes, upon the solicitation
of the infirm, he flattered himself and others
flattered him, with the hopes of succeeding. At last
he ordered his physicians to give their opinion,
whether this sort of blindness and lameness were
curable by the art of man or not? The physicians
answered uncertainly, that the one had not the
visual faculty utterly destroyed, and that he might
be restored, if the obstacles were removed; that
the other's limbs were disordered, but if a healing
virtue were made use of, they were capable of being
made whole. Perhaps they say, the gods are willing
to assist, and that the emperor is chosen by divine
interposition.
Perhaps if the GODS are willing. GODS, plural??
Davey please read the words, not what you want it to say!!
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
26 Feb 2006 11:58:16 PM |
|
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"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
Many who deny the words of Jesus, in which He stated
that He would return within that generation,
Your lie, not His words.
demand
to know about the working of miracles. They ask when
those things happened.
When did these greater miracles happen?
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that
I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
They'll be performed by His church without spot or wrinkle, which follows
the cutting off of the offending members.
<snip>
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing,
Romans 13:3-4
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou
then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have
praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But
if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him
that doeth evil.
It was their faith, not Vespasian.
<snip>
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
As you've been shown:
Which generation? Since the Greek word here is the word used for a natural
son, genea, "this generation" is what was generated by Jacob.
If He had used the word for generation which was used for an adopted son,
genos, He would have been referring to what was generated by adoption, the
church, as in 1 Pet 2:9.
If He had used the more general word for generation, gennema, He would have
been referring to what was generated by Adam, mankind, as in the following
where he uses:
Matthew 23:33-36
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: what was generated by Adam:
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of
them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all
the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation [genea: what was generated by Jacob].
How does mankind escape the damnation of hell? by all their sins, the sins
of the world, coming upon Jesus, one of many generated by Jacob, on the
cross.
The Last Days were in the first century:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
The last days are still with us. They are the time of the messiah, from His
first coming to the judgment. They're the last three millennial days
spanning from the first millennial day:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
to the 7th millennial day:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt
with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be
burned up.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 10:28:05 AM |
|
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wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
Many who deny the words of Jesus, in which He stated
that He would return within that generation,
Your lie, not His words.
demand
to know about the working of miracles. They ask when
those things happened.
When did these greater miracles happen?
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that
I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
They'll be performed by His church without spot or wrinkle, which follows
the cutting off of the offending members.
<snip>
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing,
Romans 13:3-4
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou
then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have
praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But
if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him
that doeth evil.
It was their faith, not Vespasian.
<snip>
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
As you've been shown:
Which generation? Since the Greek word here is the word used for a natural
son, genea, "this generation" is what was generated by Jacob.
If He had used the word for generation which was used for an adopted son,
genos, He would have been referring to what was generated by adoption, the
church, as in 1 Pet 2:9.
If He had used the more general word for generation, gennema, He would have
been referring to what was generated by Adam, mankind, as in the following
where he uses:
Matthew 23:33-36
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: what was generated by Adam:
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of
them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all
the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation [genea: what was generated by Jacob].
How does mankind escape the damnation of hell? by all their sins, the sins
of the world, coming upon Jesus, one of many generated by Jacob, on the
cross.
The Last Days were in the first century:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
The last days are still with us. They are the time of the messiah, from His
first coming to the judgment. They're the last three millennial days
spanning from the first millennial day:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
to the 7th millennial day:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt
with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be
burned up.
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefor, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
http://tinyurl.com/k4ffa
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/1gen.html
http://tinyurl.com/ap3zf
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/11begin.html
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
owd
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 10:32:22 PM |
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"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
Many who deny the words of Jesus, in which He stated
that He would return within that generation,
Your lie, not His words.
demand
to know about the working of miracles. They ask when
those things happened.
When did these greater miracles happen?
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works
that
I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because
I
go unto my Father.
They'll be performed by His church without spot or wrinkle, which
follows
the cutting off of the offending members.
<snip>
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing,
Romans 13:3-4
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt
thou
then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt
have
praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good.
But
if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword
in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him
that doeth evil.
It was their faith, not Vespasian.
<snip>
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
As you've been shown:
Which generation? Since the Greek word here is the word used for a
natural
son, genea, "this generation" is what was generated by Jacob.
If He had used the word for generation which was used for an adopted
son,
genos, He would have been referring to what was generated by adoption,
the
church, as in 1 Pet 2:9.
If He had used the more general word for generation, gennema, He would
have
been referring to what was generated by Adam, mankind, as in the
following
where he uses:
Matthew 23:33-36
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: what was generated by Adam:
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of
them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in
your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come
all
the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous
Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation [genea: what was generated by Jacob].
How does mankind escape the damnation of hell? by all their sins, the
sins
of the world, coming upon Jesus, one of many generated by Jacob, on the
cross.
The Last Days were in the first century:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
The last days are still with us. They are the time of the messiah, from
His
first coming to the judgment. They're the last three millennial days
spanning from the first millennial day:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not
eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
to the 7th millennial day:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the
which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall
melt
with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall
be
burned up.
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation, and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is referring to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by Adam. The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to what is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefor, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking of what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
http://tinyurl.com/k4ffa
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/1gen.html
http://tinyurl.com/ap3zf
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/11begin.html
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
owd
.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 11:08:20 PM |
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|
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is referring to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by Adam. The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to what is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefor, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking of what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
http://tinyurl.com/k4ffa
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/1gen.html
http://tinyurl.com/ap3zf
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/11begin.html
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
owd
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 10:01:55 PM |
|
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"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However, attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of time, the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefor, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
http://tinyurl.com/k4ffa
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/1gen.html
http://tinyurl.com/ap3zf
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/11begin.html
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
owd
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
|
| User: "oldwetdog" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 10:35:58 PM |
|
|
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However, attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of time, the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefor, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
Beginning of Sorrows
A short list of events seen by this generation,
-+-
These are the beginning of sorrows
The first Seal was opened
About 1880-1900
World War One and
the World Wide Flu epidemic
Satan was released from the pit
Communism
Delusion, Evolution, and
14 billion year old expanding universe
The second Seal was opened
About 1925-1940
World War Two, and
the Atomic Bomb
The third Seal was opened
About 1945-1950
World wide weather changes
Drought and Famine
Times of the Gentiles ended
1967
The return of God's People (Mat 1:21)
To Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
http://tinyurl.com/8d7ml
The fourth Seal and First four Trumpets are next.
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" can only mean one of two generations:
either the generation who heard Him describe the events,
or the generation which sees the described events.
This generation was not the generation He was speaking to.
Therefore it can only be the generation which sees the events.
Our Generation.
http://tinyurl.com/k4ffa
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/1gen.html
http://tinyurl.com/ap3zf
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/tlb/11begin.html
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
owd
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
01 Mar 2006 07:12:58 PM |
|
|
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120a95gnol0kna0@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However,
attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually
discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of time,
the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would
refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is
referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by
Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to
what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send
his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefore, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking
of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
Beginning of Sorrows
A short list of events seen by this generation,
The folks generated by Jacob will not pass.
These are the beginning of sorrows
The first Seal was opened
About 1880-1900
World War One and
the World Wide Flu epidemic
Satan was released from the pit
Communism
Delusion, Evolution, and
14 billion year old expanding universe
Correction. What you will find seven times in scripture is reference to the
Lord sitting at the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made His
footstool. At the first seal the other lion's whelp (Gen 49:9, Deut 33:22)
rides out, making His enemies His footstool, which is why Michael stands
when the second horseman, who takes peace from the earth, rides out. The
work was temporarily done and he wasn't standing.
The second Seal was opened
About 1925-1940
World War Two, and
the Atomic Bomb
The third Seal was opened
About 1945-1950
World wide weather changes
Drought and Famine
Times of the Gentiles ended
1967
The return of God's People (Mat 1:21)
To Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
http://tinyurl.com/8d7ml
The fourth Seal and First four Trumpets are next.
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" can only mean one of two generations:
either the generation who heard Him describe the events,
or the generation which sees the described events.
The word used here for generation is genea, the word which denotes a natural
son, used by the Author to designate who was generated by Jacob. When
referring to all mankind, the word used for generation is gennema: who was
generated by Adam, and when referring to the church, the adoption, the word
used for generation is genos which is also used to denote an adopted son.
There is much in scripture which will be missed if this isn't grasped.
This generation was not the generation He was speaking to.
Therefore it can only be the generation which sees the events.
Our Generation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
|
| User: "oldwetdog" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
01 Mar 2006 08:37:58 PM |
|
|
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120a95gnol0kna0@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However,
attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually
discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of time,
the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would
refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is
referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by
Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to
what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send
his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefore, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking
of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
Beginning of Sorrows
A short list of events seen by this generation,
The folks generated by Jacob will not pass.
There are many sons of Jacob and Judah in The Church...
These are the beginning of sorrows
The first Seal was opened
About 1880-1900
World War One and
the World Wide Flu epidemic
Satan was released from the pit
Communism
Delusion, Evolution, and
14 billion year old expanding universe
Correction. What you will find seven times in scripture is reference to the
Lord sitting at the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made His
footstool. At the first seal the other lion's whelp (Gen 49:9, Deut 33:22)
rides out, making His enemies His footstool, which is why Michael stands
when the second horseman, who takes peace from the earth, rides out. The
work was temporarily done and he wasn't standing.
The second Seal was opened
About 1925-1940
World War Two, and
the Atomic Bomb
The third Seal was opened
About 1945-1950
World wide weather changes
Drought and Famine
Times of the Gentiles ended
1967
The return of God's People (Mat 1:21)
To Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
http://tinyurl.com/8d7ml
The fourth Seal and First four Trumpets are next.
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" can only mean one of two generations:
either the generation who heard Him describe the events,
or the generation which sees the described events.
There are many sons of Jacob in this generation of mankind who
witnessed the return of the Faithful sons of Jacob to Jerusalem.
Mat 1:21 included any sons of Abraham--including Judah.
The word used here for generation is genea, the word which denotes a natural
son, used by the Author to designate who was generated by Jacob. When
referring to all mankind, the word used for generation is gennema: who was
generated by Adam, and when referring to the church, the adoption, the word
used for generation is genos which is also used to denote an adopted son.
There is much in scripture which will be missed if this isn't grasped.
This generation was not the generation He was speaking to.
Therefore it can only be the generation which sees the events.
Our Generation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
02 Mar 2006 05:29:10 PM |
|
|
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120cmka20u7lvef@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120a95gnol0kna0@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
fredstover@email.com wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However,
attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually
discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of
time,
the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would
refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is
referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer
to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general
word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by
Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to
what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall
all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming
in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send
his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather
together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefore, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking
of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
Beginning of Sorrows
A short list of events seen by this generation,
The folks generated by Jacob will not pass.
There are many sons of Jacob and Judah in The Church...
True, Israel was blinded in part, but when genea depart from the law, they
become part of the chosen genos (1 Pet 2:9)
These are the beginning of sorrows
The first Seal was opened
About 1880-1900
World War One and
the World Wide Flu epidemic
Satan was released from the pit
Communism
Delusion, Evolution, and
14 billion year old expanding universe
Correction. What you will find seven times in scripture is reference to
the
Lord sitting at the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made
His
footstool. At the first seal the other lion's whelp (Gen 49:9, Deut
33:22)
rides out, making His enemies His footstool, which is why Michael stands
when the second horseman, who takes peace from the earth, rides out. The
work was temporarily done and he wasn't standing.
The second Seal was opened
About 1925-1940
World War Two, and
the Atomic Bomb
The third Seal was opened
About 1945-1950
World wide weather changes
Drought and Famine
Times of the Gentiles ended
1967
The return of God's People (Mat 1:21)
To Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
http://tinyurl.com/8d7ml
The fourth Seal and First four Trumpets are next.
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" can only mean one of two generations:
either the generation who heard Him describe the events,
or the generation which sees the described events.
There are many sons of Jacob in this generation of mankind who
witnessed the return of the Faithful sons of Jacob to Jerusalem.
Mat 1:21 included any sons of Abraham--including Judah.
Except He's speaking of what was generated by Israel (Jacob) not passing.
The word used here for generation is genea, the word which denotes a
natural
son, used by the Author to designate who was generated by Jacob. When
referring to all mankind, the word used for generation is gennema: who
was
generated by Adam, and when referring to the church, the adoption, the
word
used for generation is genos which is also used to denote an adopted
son.
There is much in scripture which will be missed if this isn't grasped.
This generation was not the generation He was speaking to.
Therefore it can only be the generation which sees the events.
Our Generation.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
|
| User: "oldwetdog" |
|
| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
02 Mar 2006 05:49:55 PM |
|
|
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120cmka20u7lvef@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:120a95gnol0kna0@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1207mm6ag126r2b@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1206a4ncaopei30@corp.supernews.com...
wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
clip
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
The word is living, and it isn't discerned by reading. However,
attention to
the wording is a means of explaining what has been Spiritually
discerned. In
this case, if He were using the modern connotation of a period of
time,
the
word would have been gennema [what was generated by Adam], which would
refer
to all the people of the same time.
and their differences were
noted. He is referring to what was generated, and using the word
translated
generation, which also denotes a natural son, indicating he is
referring
to
what was generated naturally by Jacob. Just as He uses another word
translated generation, which also denotes an adopted son, to refer
to
the
church grafted into the promise by adoption. And the more general
word
for
generation to refer to mankind in general, the folks generated by
Adam.
The
Author is using three different words for a reason, He referring to
what
is
generated by three different generators.
He had given a list of events which would occur prior to His
return, so His People could recognize it.
And we're still waiting to see some of them
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
Tribulation referred to in Mat 24:15, Daniel 9:27
Which is seen again in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:3-6,7, 13:4-14
This event has not yet occurred
True.
shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And
then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall
all
the
tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming
in
the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send
his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather
together
his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He said "this generation"
The generation He described the events to, did not see them.
therefore, "this generation" must be the generation which sees
"the beginning of sorrows" and the Abomination. Dan 9:27.
He isn't using generation in its secondary sense at all. He speaking
of
what
was generated naturally by Jacob: Israel.
The generation who sees those events will not pass away until
they all are fulfilled.
No, see above.
That is, from 'the beginning of sorrows' to His Return is one
generation.
A rubber yard stick?
Beginning of Sorrows
A short list of events seen by this generation,
The folks generated by Jacob will not pass.
There are many sons of Jacob and Judah in The Church...
True, Israel was blinded in part, but when genea depart from the law, they
become part of the chosen genos (1 Pet 2:9)
These are the beginning of sorrows
The first Seal was opened
About 1880-1900
World War One and
the World Wide Flu epidemic
Satan was released from the pit
Communism
Delusion, Evolution, and
14 billion year old expanding universe
Correction. What you will find seven times in scripture is reference to
the
Lord sitting at the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made
His
footstool. At the first seal the other lion's whelp (Gen 49:9, Deut
33:22)
rides out, making His enemies His footstool, which is why Michael stands
when the second horseman, who takes peace from the earth, rides out. The
work was temporarily done and he wasn't standing.
The second Seal was opened
About 1925-1940
World War Two, and
the Atomic Bomb
The third Seal was opened
About 1945-1950
World wide weather changes
Drought and Famine
Times of the Gentiles ended
1967
The return of God's People (Mat 1:21)
To Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/d7nk8
http://tinyurl.com/8d7ml
The fourth Seal and First four Trumpets are next.
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled."
"This generation" can only mean one of two generations:
either the generation who heard Him describe the events,
or the generation which sees the described events.
There are many sons of Jacob in this generation of mankind who
witnessed the return of the Faithful sons of Jacob to Jerusalem.
Mat 1:21 included any sons of Abraham--including Judah.
Except He's speaking of what was generated by Israel (Jacob) not passing.
This generation
"This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
This generation, including specifically those children of Jacob
and Judah who are faithful, and who witnessed WW2 and their
return to Jerusalem . . .
(Luke 21:24) "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled"
By THEIR return the times of the Gentiles was fulfilled in 1967
THIS generation will not all pass away until ALL these things be
fulfilled.
ALL these things
One generation
This Generation.
The word used here for generation is genea, the word which denotes a
natural
son, used by the Author to designate who was generated by Jacob. When
referring to all mankind, the word used for generation is gennema: who
was
generated by Adam, and when referring to the church, the adoption, the
word
used for generation is genos which is also used to denote an adopted
son.
There is much in scripture which will be missed if this isn't grasped.
This generation was not the generation He was speaking to.
Therefore it can only be the generation which sees the events.
Our Generation.
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| User: "Systemrecovery" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 11:00:58 PM |
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oldwetdog wrote:
<..>
thing is...as long as you see me posting, you can be assured that none
of the seals have been open
when I stop posting...then it's on
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 07:27:12 AM |
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:08:20 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Working over the word "generation" does not tell us which
generation...
The context tells us which generation He is speaking about when
He says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
There were three different words for generation,
Fred, I think we are pretty much agreed, except for some perhaps
minor details...
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
Translation: When the definition doesn't suit you,
ignore it.
The fact is, the word is used to note a living
generation.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Romans 13:11-2
11) And that, knowing the time, that NOW it is
high time to awake out of sleep: for NOW is our
salvation nearer than when we believed.
12) The night is far spent, the day is AT HAND:
let us therefore cast off the works of darkness,
and let us put on the armor of light.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 10:01:55 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:grj802t3qghp7h8iuunbf5vd7pfgqsn527@4ax.com...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:08:20 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
<Snip>
Yes, agreed; but laboring over the word, and the definition of
the word, is not where the understanding is found. His Word is a
living Thing, and His Spirit gives understanding of His Word.
Translation: When the definition doesn't suit you,
ignore it.
The fact is, the word is used to note a living
generation.
As usual, your fact is a lie!
<Snip>
The Last Days were in the first century:
The last days are the time of the Messiah, the three millennial days at the
end of the week of millennial days.
Day 1:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The Last Days:
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the
Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be
exalted above the hills; and all nations [goyim: uncircumcised] shall flow
unto it.
The Seventh Day:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt
with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be
burned up.
<Snip>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 12:32:00 AM |
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:58:16 GMT, wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
As you've been shown:
Which generation? Since the Greek word here is the word used for a natural
son, genea, "this generation" is what was generated by Jacob.
If He had used the word for generation which was used for an adopted son,
genos, He would have been referring to what was generated by adoption, the
church, as in 1 Pet 2:9.
If He had used the more general word for generation, gennema, He would have
been referring to what was generated by Adam, mankind, as in the following
where he uses:
Matthew 23:33-36
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: what was generated by Adam:
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of
them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all
the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation [genea: what was generated by Jacob].
How does mankind escape the damnation of hell? by all their sins, the sins
of the world, coming upon Jesus, one of many generated by Jacob, on the
cross.
Who does Paul refer to when mentioning "Abraham's Seed"?
Isaac, Ishmael ... or Jesus Christ?
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 10:32:22 PM |
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"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:u0cgisyahbjq$.10vfxrmahvi9z.dlg@40tude.net...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:58:16 GMT, wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
As you've been shown:
Which generation? Since the Greek word here is the word used for a
natural
son, genea, "this generation" is what was generated by Jacob.
If He had used the word for generation which was used for an adopted
son,
genos, He would have been referring to what was generated by adoption,
the
church, as in 1 Pet 2:9.
If He had used the more general word for generation, gennema, He would
have
been referring to what was generated by Adam, mankind, as in the
following
where he uses:
Matthew 23:33-36
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: what was generated by Adam:
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore,
behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of
them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in
your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come
all
the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous
Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation [genea: what was generated by Jacob].
How does mankind escape the damnation of hell? by all their sins, the
sins
of the world, coming upon Jesus, one of many generated by Jacob, on the
cross.
Who does Paul refer to when mentioning "Abraham's Seed"?
Isaac, Ishmael ... or Jesus Christ?
Which time? In theses verses he refers to himself, Israel, and both the
folks in orange and the adoption.
Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an
Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor. 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the
seed of Abraham? so am I.
Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
27 Feb 2006 10:49:57 PM |
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:32:22 GMT, wrote:
Who does Paul refer to when mentioning "Abraham's Seed"?
Isaac, Ishmael ... or Jesus Christ?
Which time? In theses verses he refers to himself, Israel, and both the
folks in orange and the adoption.
Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an
Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor. 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the
seed of Abraham? so am I.
Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And
to seeds", as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed", who is Christ.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according
to the promise. [Galatians 3:16,29 NKJV]
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
28 Feb 2006 10:01:54 PM |
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"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:1sfcqr814cvse$.1cj331ropepaf$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:32:22 GMT, wrote:
Who does Paul refer to when mentioning "Abraham's Seed"?
Isaac, Ishmael ... or Jesus Christ?
Which time? In theses verses he refers to himself, Israel, and both the
folks in orange and the adoption.
Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am
an
Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor. 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they
the
seed of Abraham? so am I.
Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the
seed.
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And
to seeds", as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed", who is Christ.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according
to the promise. [Galatians 3:16,29 NKJV]
In that verse He refers to Christ.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found (Is 55:6)
Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in (Rom 11:25)
Why then say the scribes that ELYH (Elijah) must first come? (Matt 17:10)
I will send you El YH (LORD God) the prophet before the coming of the great
and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal 4:5)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "Cleo" |
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| Title: Re: Working of Miracles - Already Happened! |
26 Feb 2006 01:38:11 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0n302lmhoip6dp7692j6vh6dh52ubqa4h@4ax.com...
Many who deny the words of Jesus, in which He stated
that He would return within that generation, demand
to know about the working of miracles. They ask when
those things happened.
What they miss, due to their ignorance of history,
is that "miracle working" was not an uncommon thing.
It was not uncommon at all. The difference with Jesus,
is that even though He had worked miracles that had
been seen before, even the feeding of many with a small
amount of food. But He also worked miracles that had
not been seen before.
But even Emperor Vespasian, who was involved in
the destruction of Jerusalem, indulged publicly in
healing, as reported by Tacitus (55?-117?C.E.), the
famous Roman historian, in 'Histories', Book IV, 81.
The interesting part, is that "the Deity" referred to
in this quote, is Jesus Christ.
To quote...
******************* START **********************
"During these months in which Vespasian continued
at Alexandria [in 70C.E.], waiting for the usual set
time of the summer-gales of wind, and stayed for
settled fair weather at sea, many miraculous events
happened: by which the good will of heaven, and a
kind of inclination of the Deity in his favour, was
declared.
A certain man of the vulgar sort at Alexandria,
well known for the decay of his eyes, kneeled down
by him and groaned, and begged of him the cure
of his blindness, as by the admonition of Serapis,
the god which this superstitious nation worships
above others. He also desired that the emperor
would be pleased to put some of his spittle upon
the balls of his eyes. Another infirm man there,
who was lame of his hand, prayed Caesar, as by
the same god's suggestion, to tread upon him
with his foot.
Vespasian at first began to laugh at them, and to
reject them and when they were instant with him,
he sometimes feared he should have the reputation
of a vain person and sometimes, upon the solicitation
of the infirm, he flattered himself and others
flattered him, with the hopes of succeeding. At last
he ordered his physicians to give their opinion,
whether this sort of blindness and lameness were
curable by the art of man or not? The physicians
answered uncertainly, that the one had not the
visual faculty utterly destroyed, and that he might
be restored, if the obstacles were removed; that
the other's limbs were disordered, but if a healing
virtue were made use of, they were capable of being
made whole. Perhaps they say, the gods are willing
to assist, and that the emperor is chosen by divine
interposition.
However, they said at last, that if the cures
succeeded, Caesar would have the glory; if not,
the poor miserable objects would only be laughed at.
Whereupon Vespasian imagined that his good fortune
would be universal, and that nothing on that account
could be incredible; so he looked cheerfully, and in
the sight of the multitude, who stood in great
expectation, he did what they desired him; upon
which the lame hand was recovered, and the blind
man saw immediately. Both these cures
are related to this day by those that were present
and when speaking falsely they will get no reward."
******************** END *********************
The fact is, that Jesus said in Luke 21:20-22, that
when Jerusalem was destroyed, "ALL THINGS
WRITTEN" would "BE FULFILLED" and that
happened in 70 AD.
Really? That is not what my Bible says.
Luke 21: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know
that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them
which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the
countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may
be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in
those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon
this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away
captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the
Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the
waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things
which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and
great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up
your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
It says nothing about Jerusalm being distroyed only that they were
surrounded. The above Scripture even does not say a thing about the Temple
being distroyed. We know what Jesus said in Matthew 24:2.
And it is not would be fulfilled, in Luke 21:22, but may be fulfilled.
compassed: verse 20, Strongs
2944 kuklow kukloo koo-klo'-o
from the same as 2945; ; v
AV-compass about | |
