| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Ghamph" |
| Date: |
13 Dec 2007 03:50:05 PM |
| Object: |
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity, his teachings, his very existence. He was, after all,
omniscient, wasn't he? Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings? What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand, if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior knowledge,
his intention for the future, his relationship with his Dad, etc.
I'm sure many Christians will say that he did, and point to the Gospels. But
that's unsatisfactory for any number of reasons.
* First, the Gospels were not written by him. (They weren't written by
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John either, but that's another topic for another
day.) They were written by unknown authors anywhere from 30 to 100 years
after he allegedly died. Why didn't he write his own memoirs?
* Second, they are incomplete. They have little biographical information
in them about his first 30 years, for instance, dwelling on his last three,
and between the four Gospels, they contradict each other in many respects.
Where's an editor when you need one?
* Third, the fact that he was supposedly a carpenter's son, and hence
relatively uneducated, should not have prevented him leaving some evidence
of his own existence. He was god (for god's sake)! He could do anything he
wanted. To point to his apparent illiteracy is a non-starter of an argument
or defense. What's the point of having someone else write his biography,
when an autobiography would have been far more convincing?
So why did he not leave some evidence of his existence? A lock of hair would
be nice. Maybe a photograph? (he could do it, he was GOD after all.)
The obvious answer is.well.obvious, isn't it?
********************
John said, on August 2nd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
A year or so ago I decided to re-read the 4 Gospels. I can't find my damn
notes on the reading (I'd love to cite examples here).
I found some really interesting contradictions. And, equally, some really
FASCINATING agreement. 2 of the books in particular had many word-for-word
agreements. Anyone who knows anything about plagiarism will quickly realize
what this means.
If you and I see exactly the same event and then write a couple of
paragraphs describing it, the odds against us writing even a single sentence
exactly the same are astronomical. A whole paragraph? For all intents and
purposes - impossible. Now, if you argue that "nothing is impossible for
God", then the problem is that by not doing it consistently, the obvious
impression is left with any reasonable person that some of it was lifted,
either by the original author of one of the books or some scribe at some
later point. Why would God want to deceive you in to seeing plagiarism?
The parts that are contradictory are interesting. Here's one I remember - In
one book the scene from Jesus' burial tomb has certain people coming to it
and greeted by an angel as bright as the sun and another book has different
people as the first to show up there and greeted by a "man". Both man and
angel both give the same basic story that Jesus has risen.
We all know many examples from old and new testaments that we can criticize
on some level. I think these are particularly telling because the 4 Gospels
are the basis of what every Christian believes and fundamentalists will tell
you that it's the absolute unerring word of God. To them I say, how is that
possible based on the above?
.
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
13 Dec 2007 04:39:28 PM |
|
|
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity, his teachings, his very existence. He was, after all,
omniscient, wasn't he? Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings? What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand, if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior knowledge,
his intention for the future, his relationship with his Dad, etc.
I'm sure many Christians will say that he did, and point to the Gospels. But
that's unsatisfactory for any number of reasons.
* First, the Gospels were not written by him. (They weren't written by
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John either, but that's another topic for another
day.) They were written by unknown authors anywhere from 30 to 100 years
after he allegedly died. Why didn't he write his own memoirs?
* Second, they are incomplete. They have little biographical information
in them about his first 30 years, for instance, dwelling on his last three,
and between the four Gospels, they contradict each other in many respects.
Where's an editor when you need one?
* Third, the fact that he was supposedly a carpenter's son, and hence
relatively uneducated, should not have prevented him leaving some evidence
of his own existence. He was god (for god's sake)!
€€ How could he have been God if he was the sole student who attended a
40-day seminar in the Negev that was taught by God ? Also, if Jesus was
God. then was not Jesus Jesus' father ?
He could do anything he
wanted.
€€ He could not revise history.
To point to his apparent illiteracy is a non-starter of an argument
or defense. What's the point of having someone else write his biography,
when an autobiography would have been far more convincing?
So why did he not leave some evidence of his existence? A lock of hair would
be nice. Maybe a photograph? (he could do it, he was GOD after all.)
The obvious answer is.well.obvious, isn't it?
€€ it's obvious to me that it does not add up.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
13 Dec 2007 05:37:09 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity, his teachings, his very existence. He was, after all,
omniscient, wasn't he? Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings? What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand, if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior knowledge,
his intention for the future, his relationship with his Dad, etc.
I'm sure many Christians will say that he did, and point to the Gospels. But
that's unsatisfactory for any number of reasons.
* First, the Gospels were not written by him. (They weren't written by
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John either, but that's another topic for another
day.) They were written by unknown authors anywhere from 30 to 100 years
after he allegedly died. Why didn't he write his own memoirs?
* Second, they are incomplete. They have little biographical information
in them about his first 30 years, for instance, dwelling on his last three,
and between the four Gospels, they contradict each other in many respects.
Where's an editor when you need one?
* Third, the fact that he was supposedly a carpenter's son, and hence
relatively uneducated, should not have prevented him leaving some evidence
of his own existence. He was god (for god's sake)!
€€ How could he have been God if he was the sole student who attended a
40-day seminar in the Negev that was taught by God ? Also, if Jesus was
God. then was not Jesus Jesus' father ?
I would sincerely not expect such silly discourse from people who
claim to be thoughtful, thinking adults!
One lives and learns. Religious intolerance, and racial tolerance
are alive and well and hiding in Usenet!
He could do anything he
wanted.
€€ He could not revise history.
To point to his apparent illiteracy is a non-starter of an argument
or defense. What's the point of having someone else write his biography,
when an autobiography would have been far more convincing?
So why did he not leave some evidence of his existence? A lock of hair would
be nice. Maybe a photograph? (he could do it, he was GOD after all.)
The obvious answer is.well.obvious, isn't it?
€€ it's obvious to me that it does not add up.
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
13 Dec 2007 09:51:37 PM |
|
|
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity, his teachings, his very existence. He was,
after all,
omniscient, wasn't he? Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings? What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand, if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior
knowledge,
his intention for the future, his relationship with his Dad, etc.
I'm sure many Christians will say that he did, and point to the
Gospels. But
that's unsatisfactory for any number of reasons.
* First, the Gospels were not written by him. (They weren't written by
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John either, but that's another topic for another
day.) They were written by unknown authors anywhere from 30 to 100 years
after he allegedly died. Why didn't he write his own memoirs?
* Second, they are incomplete. They have little biographical
information
in them about his first 30 years, for instance, dwelling on his last three,
and between the four Gospels, they contradict each other in many respects.
Where's an editor when you need one?
* Third, the fact that he was supposedly a carpenter's son, and hence
relatively uneducated, should not have prevented him leaving some evidence
of his own existence. He was god (for god's sake)!
€€ How could he have been God if he was the sole student who attended a
40-day seminar in the Negev that was taught by God ? Also, if Jesus was
God. then was not Jesus Jesus' father ?
I would sincerely not expect such silly discourse from people who
claim to be thoughtful, thinking adults!
€€ the questions are not indeterminant.
One lives and learns. Religious intolerance, and racial tolerance
are alive and well and hiding in Usenet!
He could do anything he
wanted.
€€ He could not revise history.
To point to his apparent illiteracy is a non-starter of an argument
or defense. What's the point of having someone else write his biography,
when an autobiography would have been far more convincing?
So why did he not leave some evidence of his existence? A lock of
hair would
be nice. Maybe a photograph? (he could do it, he was GOD after all.)
The obvious answer is.well.obvious, isn't it?
€€ it's obvious to me that it does not add up.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
16 Dec 2007 09:24:49 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
You truly haven't read much of the Bible, have you?
One of His most famous mini-sermons began with heckling.
"Hey, PREACHER! Do we pay taxes, or not?"
(this turned into the mini-sermon where He asked a person in the
audience for a coin)
Your comments indicate -- knowledgeable-- WORLDLY knowledgeable
skeptic that you are -- you don't have even a rudimentary knowledge of
scripture! (< that's what we call the Bible)
his very existence.
??? People of His day were supposed to ask Him, "Are you really
there? You really aren't there, are you?"
He was,
after all,
omniscient, wasn't he?
^ ^ ^ Sounds like you have some doubts.
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others? How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
I wonder why you-- such a KNOWLEDGABLE un-believer-- hang out in a
Christian group so much!
(people will talk)
What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand,
Why EXACTLY would Jesus need to write anything down?
He knew (being God, being omniscient-- as you said) that the
apostles would write it all down.
(they may have been taking notes while He preached)
YOU don't know otherwise!
You WANT to THINK otherwise!
if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior
knowledge,
????
Um... in most respects, he did!
It isn't His fault that you choose to not believe!
There are plenty of people smarter than me, smarter than you (MUCH
smarter than YOU), who DO believe.
Shall I list a dozen names of some very smart Christians?
I bet you'd call William J Clinton and Hillary R "pretty smart."
He's an openly-confessing Christian.
I believe the world will agree in 20 years (many already agree) that
Ron Reagan was one of our best, and one of our smartest Presidents.
ANOTHER openly-professing Christian.
Then there are two of the most famous GENERALS in the world, Gen
Colin Powell, and Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, both OUTSPOKEN Christians.
Then we have a dozen astronauts from John Glenn to Col Jim Irwin, to
Gus Grissom (the one whose capsule sank)
I don't know about you, but I'd say astronauts are pretty smart
fellows. Last I heard, one count has it that up to 1/3 of our
astronauts are Christians.
Pretty smart guys, and they're convinced.
What's YOUR problem?
I know judges (Judge Mullian - People's Court)
Judge Joe Brown, Judge Greg Mathis
Judge Maybelline Ephraim
shall I continue?
I know doctors who are Christians. They're pretty smart!
I know lawyers who are. I know nurses who are.
I know engineers who are. I know programmers and technicians who are.
In fact, when you sneer about "stupid, gullible Christians"
you're saying I'm stupid and gullible.
his intention for the future, his relationship with his Dad, etc.
Hmmm. Al that is in the Bible.
I'm sure many Christians will say that he did, and point to the
Gospels. But
that's unsatisfactory for any number of reasons.
Your narrow view doesn't count.
Too many disagree with your view of "the views."
* First, the Gospels were not written by him. (They weren't written by
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John either, but that's another topic for another
day.)
That is not true. We do have evidence that
1. eyewitnesses 2. who KNEW Him wrote the gospels.
They were written by unknown authors anywhere from 30 to 100 years
after he allegedly died
Not true, and it's easy to challenge who wrote the gospels WHEN,
THOUSANDS of years later.
In a thousand years, I wonder if anyone will be able to prove, with
HARD Evidence, that YOU existed.
Unlikely!
.. Why didn't he write his own memoirs?
I suppose you could make plans to ask Him.
Perhaps you'd like to take a moment and ask Him now.
* Second, they are incomplete.
In your opinion, which many don't share.
Most Bible scholars-- at least the conservative
theologians/scholars, don't agree.
They'd say-- as I would say-- "we have what we need."
It's a wonder, as old as the Bible is, that we have any documents at
all! That all by itself is a proof of their veracity.
They have little biographical
information
in them about his first 30 years, for instance, dwelling on his last three,
AGAIN, most scholars don't believe that matters.
Name me any citizen of the 1st century or before, who we have
endless biographical details about.
If we had exhaustive details about Jesus, some might be tempted to
worship places He slept, places He ate His meals. They might want to
worship cups He drank from.
and between the four Gospels, they contradict each other in many respects.
"Many?"
I don't think so. Having read the 4 gospels MANY times over 60
years, I keep looking for these "discrepancies."
They don't exist outside your mind.
Where's an editor when you need one?
* Third, the fact that he was supposedly a carpenter's son, and hence
relatively uneducated, should not have prevented him leaving some evidence
of his own existence.
As a Jewish male, He received the typical temple education, as
evidenced by His ability to get up on Saturday in the Temple, open the
scrolls, and read from the prophets.
He could read, and He knew the language of His people.
If you're going to make fun of a fictional character, making
reference to His inadequacies is not just not classy, it's down right
stupid.
And there is evidence of His existence.
And now, I've given you several paragraphs to show some evidence of
intelligent life.
You haven't.
Sorry! My bad!
I had mistakenly placed you among the intellects.
John w
snip
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
17 Dec 2007 08:06:54 AM |
|
|
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
I wonder why you-- such a KNOWLEDGABLE un-believer-- hang out in a
Christian group so much!
• I unbelieve what holy men made up after his 3-yr lecture-tour was over
and he was out of here.
(people will talk)
• I could not possibly care less what others think of me.
What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand,
• Guffaw
Why EXACTLY would Jesus need to write anything down?
He knew (being God, being omniscient-- as you said) that the
apostles would write it all down.
• The syntax shifts in the 4-gospels indicate they entrusted the writing
end of things to scribes.
(they may have been taking notes while He preached)
YOU don't know otherwise!
You WANT to THINK otherwise!
• The outline of the Sermon on the Mount is easy to remember.
if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior
knowledge,
????
Um... in most respects, he did!
It isn't His fault that you choose to not believe!
There are plenty of people smarter than me, smarter than you (MUCH
smarter than YOU), who DO believe.
Shall I list a dozen names of some very smart Christians?
I bet you'd call William J Clinton and Hillary R "pretty smart."
He's an openly-confessing Christian.
• If Wild Bill was all that smart, when asked about Monica, he would
have, grinned a JFK grin, looked at the ceiling, and said "next
question."
I believe the world will agree in 20 years (many already agree) that
Ron Reagan was one of our best, and one of our smartest Presidents.
ANOTHER openly-professing Christian.
• Ronald Reagan suceeded in deregulating the home-loan industry,
resulting in the current sub-prime collapse.
Then there are two of the most famous GENERALS in the world, Gen
Colin Powell, and Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, both OUTSPOKEN Christians.
• John D. Rockefeller, the guy who co-founded Standard Oil and built it
into a monipoly using tactics of the Sicilian Mafia, was a devout
Christian
Then we have a dozen astronauts from John Glenn to Col Jim Irwin, to
Gus Grissom (the one whose capsule sank)
I don't know about you, but I'd say astronauts are pretty smart
fellows. Last I heard, one count has it that up to 1/3 of our
astronauts are Christians.
Pretty smart guys, and they're convinced.
What's YOUR problem?
• too many birthdays, too many strokes.
I know judges (Judge Mullian - People's Court)
• Do you think Marilyn believes the RCCs bovine feces on human reproduction?
Judge Joe Brown, Judge Greg Mathis
Judge Maybelline Ephraim
shall I continue?
I know doctors who are Christians. They're pretty smart!
• Anybody who can be convinced that a guy was a student at a 40-day
semininar that he simultaneously taught, can not possibly be all that
smart.
I know lawyers who are. I know nurses who are.
I know engineers who are. I know programmers and technicians who are.
In fact, when you sneer about "stupid, gullible Christians"
you're saying I'm stupid and gullible.
• If you swallowed the story about the student actually being the
teacher, there's not much doubt.
• enough
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 02:21:02 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:06:54 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
On THAT ^ ^ ^ we agree.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
So you are saying that that's a HUGE group of people-- people
INCLUDING Gen Norman Schwarzkopf and Gen Colin Powell (two men who
share my faith), and greats like John Glenn and Col Jim Irwin (two of
the astronauts)
and a LONG list of scientists, judges, lawyers, doctors, engineers,
all sorts of scientists...
Who don't use the reasoning ability God gave them.
In other words, if they've been places you haven't been, if they've
seen things you haven't seen, and they have come to a VASTLY different
view on God,
they're unthinking automatons.
I resent that. I have been around the world (likely places YOU have
not been), I have an education, I have LOTS of life experience you
know ZERO about.
But BECAUSE I am a Christian, you consider me an uneducated,
unthinking idiot.
??
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
It must, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time fighting it.
ARe you Don Quixote, tilting at windmills? ARe you mad?
I wonder why you-- such a KNOWLEDGABLE un-believer-- hang out in a
Christian group so much!
• I unbelieve what holy men made up after his 3-yr lecture-tour was over
and he was out of here.
You are not qualified.
(people will talk)
• I could not possibly care less what others think of me.
Well, we have that in common. I don't care what others think of me,
and I don't care what others think of you.
But you got this DAFT view of Christianity from SOMEWHERE outside
yourself. I've just run into "your views" so many times before that I
KNOW they're not unique to you!
THEREFORE, in a HUGE way, you don't think for yourself!
What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand,
• Guffaw
Why EXACTLY would Jesus need to write anything down?
He knew (being God, being omniscient-- as you said) that the
apostles would write it all down.
• The syntax shifts in the 4-gospels indicate they entrusted the writing
end of things to scribes.
Did you have a point in there somewhere?
And-- kindly don't analyze the gospels that way. You TRULY are not
qualified. I have not read of you saying you've been to a single
solitary seminary.
I haven't heard you brag about your fluency in Hebrew, Koine Greek,
or Syriac!
(they may have been taking notes while He preached)
YOU don't know otherwise!
You WANT to THINK otherwise!
• The outline of the Sermon on the Mount is easy to remember.
I note you keep digressing.
DO try to stay topical.
Jesus was one of the early MASTERS of teaching and preaching.
He used HUMOR, He was TOPICAL, and He used very simple outlines.
if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior
knowledge,
????
Um... in most respects, he did!
It isn't His fault that you choose to not believe!
There are plenty of people smarter than me, smarter than you (MUCH
smarter than YOU), who DO believe.
Shall I list a dozen names of some very smart Christians?
I bet you'd call William J Clinton and Hillary R "pretty smart."
??? I don't consider either a Christian.
He's an openly-confessing Christian.
So was Judas Iscariot, however briefly.
"By their fruits shall they be known."
• If Wild Bill was all that smart, when asked about Monica, he would
have, grinned a JFK grin, looked at the ceiling, and said "next
question."
Nope. Will Bill knew his constituency. They flat didn't care.
I believe the world will agree in 20 years (many already agree) that
Ron Reagan was one of our best, and one of our smartest Presidents.
ANOTHER openly-professing Christian.
• Ronald Reagan suceeded in deregulating the home-loan industry,
resulting in the current sub-prime collapse.
And of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and you are
entitled to be wrong.
Ron Reagan was so significant, that today-- DECADES later-- his
economic policy is called "Reaganomics."
Then there are two of the most famous GENERALS in the world, Gen
Colin Powell, and Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, both OUTSPOKEN Christians.
• John D. Rockefeller, the guy who co-founded Standard Oil and built it
into a monipoly using tactics of the Sicilian Mafia, was a devout
Christian
I've heard similiar comments about Christians celebrating Christmas
"which was originally a pagan holiday."
What John D Rockefeller did worked at the time. It might not work
today.
William Gates Jr has used VERY extreme and illegal tactics to put
Microsoft Corp on the world map. He doesn't claim to be a Christian,
last I heard.
If he does, he needs to do a LOT of repenting. Last I was aware, his
company (hint: it begins with an "M") still uses illegal hiring /
firing practices.
( He's simply too rich-- too powerful-- to prosecute)
Then we have a dozen astronauts from John Glenn to Col Jim Irwin, to
Gus Grissom (the one whose capsule sank)
I don't know about you, but I'd say astronauts are pretty smart
fellows. Last I heard, one count has it that up to 1/3 of our
astronauts are Christians.
Pretty smart guys, and they're convinced.
What's YOUR problem?
• too many birthdays, too many strokes.
I know judges (Judge Mullian - People's Court)
• Do you think Marilyn believes the RCCs bovine feces on human reproduction?
I think we all have our blind spots.
You, too!
Judge Joe Brown, Judge Greg Mathis
Judge Maybelline Ephraim
shall I continue?
I know doctors who are Christians. They're pretty smart!
• Anybody who can be convinced that a guy was a student at a 40-day
semininar that he simultaneously taught, can not possibly be all that
smart.
All you have just said ^ ^ is that you don't believe in the
supernatural.
If you believed in the supernatural, you might even believe that a
Man-God had stood up in a small fishing craft in the midst of a
hurricane at sea and that he had calmed the storm INSTANTLY with a few
words.
That is no more far-fetched than the story you just ridiculed.
But you missed the point of the story you ridiculed if you believe
that Jesus was both student and teacher of that "40-day seminar."
God didn't teach Him anything.
But it's interesting that you brushed aside (or you were perhaps
not bright enough to NOTICE) the actual details of that event.
Jesus was "tempted" with half-a-dozen things that wouldn't be a
"temptation" to any mortal man.
I know lawyers who are. I know nurses who are.
I know engineers who are. I know programmers and technicians who are.
In fact, when you sneer about "stupid, gullible Christians"
you're saying I'm stupid and gullible.
• If you swallowed the story about the student actually being the
teacher, there's not much doubt.
^ ^ ^ If that's what you got from the story about His time in the
wildnerness, you missed the whole point and MOST of the details.
In which case, you really shouldn't be calling even dead people
"dumb!"
• enough
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 04:32:21 AM |
|
|
In article <2dhhm3luaj0piopub5h6c1eggo9h05ofc3@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:06:54 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
On THAT ^ ^ ^ we agree.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
So you are saying that that's a HUGE group of people-- people
INCLUDING Gen Norman Schwarzkopf and Gen Colin Powell (two men who
share my faith), and greats like John Glenn and Col Jim Irwin (two of
the astronauts)
and a LONG list of scientists, judges, lawyers, doctors, engineers,
all sorts of scientists...
Who don't use the reasoning ability God gave them.
• We need slow down and go on a case by case basis here. Name one church
at a time and, if it be the case, I will furnish evidence that the
hierarchy of that org teaches that the laity should let the leaders do the
thinking. .
In other words, if they've been places you haven't been, if they've
seen things you haven't seen, and they have come to a VASTLY different
view on God,
• Either they are told such or they are not.
they're unthinking automatons.
• it is not easy to overerestimate the power of thought control brought
about by repeated suggestion from a charismatic, father-figure leader when
it is reinforced by peer pressure.
I resent that. I have been around the world (likely places YOU have
not been), I have an education, I have LOTS of life experience you
know ZERO about.
But BECAUSE I am a Christian, you consider me an uneducated,
unthinking idiot.
??
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
It must, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time fighting it.
• my bailiwick seems to be parasites, both electronic and human.
ARe you Don Quixote, tilting at windmills? ARe you mad?
• Possibly. I'm mad as hell that I got snagged by the AMT when I sold my
Apple stock.
I wonder why you-- such a KNOWLEDGABLE un-believer-- hang out in a
Christian group so much!
• I unbelieve what holy men made up after his 3-yr lecture-tour was over
and he was out of here.
You are not qualified.
• Anyone to whom God gave me a modicum of reasoning ability, is.
(people will talk)
• I could not possibly care less what others think of me.
Well, we have that in common. I don't care what others think of me,
and I don't care what others think of you.
• congrats
But you got this DAFT view of Christianity from SOMEWHERE outside
yourself.
• The views I have about Christian doctrine are based on Thinking about it.
I've just run into "your views" so many times before that I
KNOW they're not unique to you!
THEREFORE, in a HUGE way, you don't think for yourself!
What
better proof than writings , documents, in his own hand,
• Guffaw
Why EXACTLY would Jesus need to write anything down?
He knew (being God, being omniscient-- as you said) that the
apostles would write it all down.
• The syntax shifts in the 4-gospels indicate they entrusted the writing
end of things to scribes.
Did you have a point in there somewhere?
• Matthew did not write the Gospel According to Matthew. Instead, it was
written by scribes and was based on interviews with those who had heard
his lectures.
And-- kindly don't analyze the gospels that way. You TRULY are not
qualified. I have not read of you saying you've been to a single
solitary seminary.
• From what I have heard about the local one I can see from my back yard,
it should be called Saint John's Semenary.
I haven't heard you brag about your fluency in Hebrew, Koine Greek,
or Syriac!
• I don't know ***** about Navajo either.
(they may have been taking notes while He preached)
YOU don't know otherwise!
You WANT to THINK otherwise!
• The outline of the Sermon on the Mount is easy to remember.
I note you keep digressing.
DO try to stay topical.
• the Sermon on the Mount tossses the proverbial monkey wrench into post
4th century Christian doctrine
Jesus was one of the early MASTERS of teaching and preaching.
He used HUMOR, He was TOPICAL, and He used very simple outlines.
• so simple that many did not get it.
if possible, that
clearly and unequivocally demonstrate his existence, his superior
knowledge,
????
Um... in most respects, he did!
It isn't His fault that you choose to not believe!
There are plenty of people smarter than me, smarter than you (MUCH
smarter than YOU), who DO believe.
Shall I list a dozen names of some very smart Christians?
I bet you'd call William J Clinton and Hillary R "pretty smart."
??? I don't consider either a Christian.
He's an openly-confessing Christian.
So was Judas Iscariot, however briefly.
"By their fruits shall they be known."
• If Wild Bill was all that smart, when asked about Monica, he would
have, grinned a JFK grin, looked at the ceiling, and said "next
question."
Nope. Will Bill knew his constituency. They flat didn't care.
I believe the world will agree in 20 years (many already agree) that
Ron Reagan was one of our best, and one of our smartest Presidents.
ANOTHER openly-professing Christian.
• Ronald Reagan suceeded in deregulating the home-loan industry,
resulting in the current sub-prime collapse.
And of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and you are
entitled to be wrong.
• I remember Reagan joyously signing the legislation.
Ron Reagan was so significant, that today-- DECADES later-- his
economic policy is called "Reaganomics."
• Reagan's tax rates were insightful and rightful. W's were blightful.
Then there are two of the most famous GENERALS in the world, Gen
Colin Powell, and Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, both OUTSPOKEN Christians.
• John D. Rockefeller, the guy who co-founded Standard Oil and built it
into a monipoly using tactics of the Sicilian Mafia, was a devout
Christian
I've heard similiar comments about Christians celebrating Christmas
"which was originally a pagan holiday."
• True. When Jesus/Yeshua was born c. 4BC, Romans celebrated 25-December
as the Persian God Mithra's birthday.
What John D Rockefeller did worked at the time. It might not work
today.
• with the RICO Act, definitely not.
William Gates Jr has used VERY extreme and illegal tactics to put
Microsoft Corp on the world map. He doesn't claim to be a Christian,
last I heard.
• correct. Bill knows way too much about the early history of Christianity.
If he does, he needs to do a LOT of repenting.
• indeed
Last I was aware, his
company (hint: it begins with an "M") still uses illegal hiring /
firing practices.
• Bill thinks he's above the law and that it's really okay to jump up and
down on his desk.
( He's simply too rich-- too powerful-- to prosecute)
• quite. He could probably buy Congress.
Then we have a dozen astronauts from John Glenn to Col Jim Irwin, to
Gus Grissom (the one whose capsule sank)
I don't know about you, but I'd say astronauts are pretty smart
fellows. Last I heard, one count has it that up to 1/3 of our
astronauts are Christians.
Pretty smart guys, and they're convinced.
What's YOUR problem?
• too many birthdays, too many strokes.
I know judges (Judge Mullian - People's Court)
• Do you think Marilyn believes the RCCs bovine feces on human reproduction?
I think we all have our blind spots.
You, too!
• Surely, but I'm not donating money to any organized religion.
Judge Joe Brown, Judge Greg Mathis
Judge Maybelline Ephraim
shall I continue?
I know doctors who are Christians. They're pretty smart!
• Anybody who can be convinced that a guy was a student at a 40-day
semininar that he simultaneously taught, can not possibly be all that
smart.
All you have just said ^ ^ is that you don't believe in the
supernatural.
If you believed in the supernatural, you might even believe that a
Man-God
• If Jesus was a Man-God, who was he talking to when he said "My God, My
God, why have you foresaken me" at the hour of his death ?
had stood up in a small fishing craft in the midst of a
hurricane at sea and that he had calmed the storm INSTANTLY with a few
words.
That is no more far-fetched than the story you just ridiculed.
But you missed the point of the story you ridiculed if you believe
that Jesus was both student and teacher of that "40-day seminar."
God didn't teach Him anything.
• So why did he attend the 40-day seminar ?
But it's interesting that you brushed aside (or you were perhaps
not bright enough to NOTICE) the actual details of that event.
Jesus was "tempted" with half-a-dozen things that wouldn't be a
"temptation" to any mortal man.
• name the 6.
I know lawyers who are. I know nurses who are.
I know engineers who are. I know programmers and technicians who are.
In fact, when you sneer about "stupid, gullible Christians"
you're saying I'm stupid and gullible.
• If you swallowed the story about the student actually being the
teacher, there's not much doubt.
^ ^ ^ If that's what you got from the story about His time in the
wildnerness, you missed the whole point and MOST of the details.
In which case, you really shouldn't be calling even dead people
"dumb!"
• lot's of dead people got there by making a dumb mistake. My 19-yr old
neighbor, April, liked to drive fast - even in the rain, a mistake which
eventually proved to be her bane.
• enough
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 06:33:31 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:32:21 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <2dhhm3luaj0piopub5h6c1eggo9h05ofc3@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:06:54 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
On THAT ^ ^ ^ we agree.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
So you are saying that that's a HUGE group of people-- people
INCLUDING Gen Norman Schwarzkopf and Gen Colin Powell (two men who
share my faith), and greats like John Glenn and Col Jim Irwin (two of
the astronauts)
and a LONG list of scientists, judges, lawyers, doctors, engineers,
all sorts of scientists...
Who don't use the reasoning ability God gave them.
• We need slow down and go on a case by case basis here. Name one church
at a time and, if it be the case, I will furnish evidence that the
hierarchy of that org teaches that the laity should let the leaders do the
thinking. .
I don't think so, and I won't allow you to manipulate me. I had the
good fortune of attending two seminaries. One I'm sure you've heard
of. I went to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA. It's
ecumenical, non-denominational. They don't ask for a denominational
affiliation, last I was aware.
I was sitting in class with Roman Catholics, with Pentecostals, with
Methodists, with Presbyterians, with Mennonites.
All agreed on the "basics" of the New Testament gospel as preached
by The Master.
I attended a 2nd seminary, concurrently with Fuller: California
Graduate School Of Theology in Glendale, CA.
Both schools were ecumenical.
I can say for all the denominations OTHER than the Roman Catholics.
ALL encourage the everyday guy to sit and STUDY with the scholars,
then form his own opinions, with the Holy Spirit's guidance.
As a case in point, I disagreed MULTIPLE times with the lessons
taught. That was ENCOURAGED. ALL the profs asked was that I SUPPORT my
POV with scripture.
The prof would ask a general question. "How many would agree that
_________________ ?"
Of a class of 300 students, I would be the ONE who would disagree.
The prof would frown, and say, "very well, Mr Weatherly, what do YOU
say about the passage we're studying? Kindly give scriptural support."
I'd answer, I'd give several verses. And the prof, staring down the
barrel of a DIFFERENT opinion, would give ME the "Gold Star" for the
day.
I had a totally different opinion, but I backed it up with the
BIBLE!.
That's how I was brought up. "Know the Bible" and you can't go wrong.
What YOU demonstrate is NO basic knowledge of Scripture!
In other words, if they've been places you haven't been, if they've
seen things you haven't seen, and they have come to a VASTLY different
view on God,
• Either they are told such or they are not.
they're unthinking automatons.
• it is not easy to overerestimate the power of thought control brought
about by repeated suggestion from a charismatic, father-figure leader when
it is reinforced by peer pressure.
So, you believe it when you're told-- over and over and over and
over and over again by the RCC that "no church buildings of ANY kind
were built UNTIL the RCC began to build them in the 4th C AD."
Horse pucky! I've been to a 1st Century church building that St Paul
the Apostle built in Turkey. (the church at Ephesus)
I've been to a church built in the early 4th C (325 AD) in England.
I resent that. I have been around the world (likely places YOU have
not been), I have an education, I have LOTS of life experience you
know ZERO about.
But BECAUSE I am a Christian, you consider me an uneducated,
unthinking idiot.
??
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
It must, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time fighting it.
• my bailiwick seems to be parasites, both electronic and human.
It would help if we spoke the same language.
Your witticisms are lost on me when you aren't speaking a language
I understand.
I don't understand your language.
So I suggest -- if you are trying to communicate (you may not be) --
you get past the urge to be "cutesy", and you focus on communicating
meaningfully.
ARe you Don Quixote, tilting at windmills? ARe you mad?
• Possibly. I'm mad as hell that I got snagged by the AMT when I sold my
Apple stock.
"I give up."
Only one of us is trying to communicate.
SNIP. I stopped here.
john w
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 11:35:57 AM |
|
|
In article <793im3dsj122e9f8k1on6h50ir6rhbs4dh@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:32:21 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <2dhhm3luaj0piopub5h6c1eggo9h05ofc3@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:06:54 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that
people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
On THAT ^ ^ ^ we agree.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
So you are saying that that's a HUGE group of people-- people
INCLUDING Gen Norman Schwarzkopf and Gen Colin Powell (two men who
share my faith), and greats like John Glenn and Col Jim Irwin (two of
the astronauts)
and a LONG list of scientists, judges, lawyers, doctors, engineers,
all sorts of scientists...
Who don't use the reasoning ability God gave them.
• We need to slow down and go on a case by case basis here. Name one church
at a time and, if it be the case, I will furnish evidence that the
hierarchy of that org teaches that the laity should let the leaders do the
thinking. .
I don't think so, and I won't allow you to manipulate me. I had the
good fortune of attending two seminaries. One I'm sure you've heard
of. I went to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA. It's
ecumenical, non-denominational. They don't ask for a denominational
affiliation, last I was aware.
I was sitting in class with Roman Catholics, with Pentecostals, with
Methodists, with Presbyterians, with Mennonites.
All agreed on the "basics" of the New Testament gospel as preached
by The Master.
I attended a 2nd seminary, concurrently with Fuller: California
Graduate School Of Theology in Glendale, CA.
Both schools were ecumenical.
I can say for all the denominations OTHER than the Roman Catholics.
ALL encourage the everyday guy to sit and STUDY with the scholars,
then form his own opinions, with the Holy Spirit's guidance.
As a case in point, I disagreed MULTIPLE times with the lessons
taught. That was ENCOURAGED. ALL the profs asked was that I SUPPORT my
POV with scripture.
The prof would ask a general question. "How many would agree that
_________________ ?"
Of a class of 300 students, I would be the ONE who would disagree.
The prof would frown, and say, "very well, Mr Weatherly, what do YOU
say about the passage we're studying? Kindly give scriptural support."
I'd answer, I'd give several verses. And the prof, staring down the
barrel of a DIFFERENT opinion, would give ME the "Gold Star" for the
day.
I had a totally different opinion, but I backed it up with the
BIBLE!.
That's how I was brought up. "Know the Bible" and you can't go wrong.
What YOU demonstrate is NO basic knowledge of Scripture!
• ___
In other words, if they've been places you haven't been, if they've
seen things you haven't seen, and they have come to a VASTLY different
view on God,
• Either they are told such or they are not.
they're unthinking automatons.
• it is not easy to overerestimate the power of thought control brought
about by repeated suggestion from a charismatic, father-figure leader when
it is reinforced by peer pressure.
So, you believe it when you're told-- over and over and over and
over and over again by the RCC that "no church buildings of ANY kind
were built UNTIL the RCC began to build them in the 4th C AD."
• no. I don't believe salvation can be found only indoors.
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in
the midst of them" [Matt 18:20]
Horse pucky! I've been to a 1st Century church building that St Paul
the Apostle built in Turkey. (the church at Ephesus)
I've been to a church built in the early 4th C (325 AD) in England.
• Congratulations
I resent that. I have been around the world (likely places YOU have
not been), I have an education, I have LOTS of life experience you
know ZERO about.
But BECAUSE I am a Christian, you consider me an uneducated,
unthinking idiot.
??
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
It must, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time fighting it.
• my bailiwick seems to be parasites, both electronic and human.
It would help if we spoke the same language.
Your witticisms are lost on me when you aren't speaking a language
I understand.
• Many of the magazine articles I authored were about parasitic
oscillations in radio frequency transmitters.
end
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 08:47:30 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:35:57 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <793im3dsj122e9f8k1on6h50ir6rhbs4dh@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:32:21 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <2dhhm3luaj0piopub5h6c1eggo9h05ofc3@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:06:54 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <oqjbm3hqi69cffk5ekechitrab09e8q6to@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:51:37 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <gfg3m3pu1jrmvv2iqu65o12mro0sb23r99@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:28 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <13m3a5dnb3l781b@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
Would Jesus ride the short bus to school?
As the Son of God, Jesus certainly must have known that
people might
question his divinity,
??? Of course, He knew! People questioned His deity in His day!
They challenged His deity to His face!
"If you're really the Son of God, come down off that cross!"
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, tell us which of us punched you in
the face."
"If you're REALLY the Son of God, do a miracle for me! I want to
WATCH!" (early voyeurism)
his teachings,
??? What do you think the hecklers were all about?
• Probably Jewish holy men who the Son of man's teachings would put out
of a job.
On THAT ^ ^ ^ we agree.
...
Why not leave some proof, some brain droppings?
Why don't you respect others?
• I resoect those who do their own thinking. Catholics, Mormonites,
Muslims, JWs and others are trained not to use the reasoning ability that
God gave them.
So you are saying that that's a HUGE group of people-- people
INCLUDING Gen Norman Schwarzkopf and Gen Colin Powell (two men who
share my faith), and greats like John Glenn and Col Jim Irwin (two of
the astronauts)
and a LONG list of scientists, judges, lawyers, doctors, engineers,
all sorts of scientists...
Who don't use the reasoning ability God gave them.
• We need to slow down and go on a case by case basis here. Name one church
at a time and, if it be the case, I will furnish evidence that the
hierarchy of that org teaches that the laity should let the leaders do the
thinking. .
I don't think so, and I won't allow you to manipulate me. I had the
good fortune of attending two seminaries. One I'm sure you've heard
of. I went to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA. It's
ecumenical, non-denominational. They don't ask for a denominational
affiliation, last I was aware.
I was sitting in class with Roman Catholics, with Pentecostals, with
Methodists, with Presbyterians, with Mennonites.
All agreed on the "basics" of the New Testament gospel as preached
by The Master.
I attended a 2nd seminary, concurrently with Fuller: California
Graduate School Of Theology in Glendale, CA.
Both schools were ecumenical.
I can say for all the denominations OTHER than the Roman Catholics.
ALL encourage the everyday guy to sit and STUDY with the scholars,
then form his own opinions, with the Holy Spirit's guidance.
As a case in point, I disagreed MULTIPLE times with the lessons
taught. That was ENCOURAGED. ALL the profs asked was that I SUPPORT my
POV with scripture.
The prof would ask a general question. "How many would agree that
_________________ ?"
Of a class of 300 students, I would be the ONE who would disagree.
The prof would frown, and say, "very well, Mr Weatherly, what do YOU
say about the passage we're studying? Kindly give scriptural support."
I'd answer, I'd give several verses. And the prof, staring down the
barrel of a DIFFERENT opinion, would give ME the "Gold Star" for the
day.
I had a totally different opinion, but I backed it up with the
BIBLE!.
That's how I was brought up. "Know the Bible" and you can't go wrong.
What YOU demonstrate is NO basic knowledge of Scripture!
• ___
In other words, if they've been places you haven't been, if they've
seen things you haven't seen, and they have come to a VASTLY different
view on God,
• Either they are told such or they are not.
they're unthinking automatons.
• it is not easy to overerestimate the power of thought control brought
about by repeated suggestion from a charismatic, father-figure leader when
it is reinforced by peer pressure.
So, you believe it when you're told-- over and over and over and
over and over again by the RCC that "no church buildings of ANY kind
were built UNTIL the RCC began to build them in the 4th C AD."
• no. I don't believe salvation can be found only indoors.
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in
the midst of them" [Matt 18:20]
Horse pucky! I've been to a 1st Century church building that St Paul
the Apostle built in Turkey. (the church at Ephesus)
I've been to a church built in the early 4th C (325 AD) in England.
Pardon me! I meant "early 6th", which was 525 AD.
• Congratulations
I resent that. I have been around the world (likely places YOU have
not been), I have an education, I have LOTS of life experience you
know ZERO about.
But BECAUSE I am a Christian, you consider me an uneducated,
unthinking idiot.
??
How EXACTLY does Christianity harm
YOU? Be specific.
• Where did you get the looneytunes idea that Christianity harms me ?
It must, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time fighting it.
• my bailiwick seems to be parasites, both electronic and human.
It would help if we spoke the same language.
Your witticisms are lost on me when you aren't speaking a language
I understand.
• Many of the magazine articles I authored were about parasitic
oscillations in radio frequency transmitters.
end
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
17 Dec 2007 07:45:39 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 01:14:05 AM |
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
17 Dec 2007 10:34:32 AM |
|
|
In article <9avcm3tak7e3e89fsqqqg0inp2s9tf7lo9@4ax.com>, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
** Is Elaine going over the top ?
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 01:17:35 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:34:32 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <9avcm3tak7e3e89fsqqqg0inp2s9tf7lo9@4ax.com>, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
** Is Elaine going over the top ?
???? Where have YOU been?
Elaine is LONG gone!
She's created a whole new ceiling and sailed over that!
I said SEVERAL years ago that she'd had a psychotic break. People
made fun of me. She's now proving GRAPHICALLY, beyond QUESTION that
she's had a psychotic break.
which is why I recently took to labeling her "Insane Elaine."
("it fits")
Elaine's "out there" (mis)behavior indicates NO control, NO thought
or impulse control, NO consideration WHATEVER for the ramifications of
her (mis)behavior.
She frankly doesn't give one nano-second's consideration to the
ramifications. She's Out Of Control.
That is the very definition of a "sociopath."
Elaine-- to put it briefly-- is a walking bomb.
And when she explodes, I predict people are going to get hurt.
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 03:32:24 AM |
|
|
In article <56hhm3hepeim4fjdbsb8t2s0d57nbfrv29@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:34:32 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <9avcm3tak7e3e89fsqqqg0inp2s9tf7lo9@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
** Is Elaine going over the top ?
???? Where have YOU been?
Elaine is LONG gone!
She's created a whole new ceiling and sailed over that!
• Alas, thanx. Maybe she finally realized that Baptist doctrine is
pretty much derived from Catholic doctrine, and it warped her mind?
I said SEVERAL years ago that she'd had a psychotic break. People
made fun of me. She's now proving GRAPHICALLY, beyond QUESTION that
she's had a psychotic break.
which is why I recently took to labeling her "Insane Elaine."
("it fits")
• well at least it rhymes
Elaine's "out there" (mis)behavior indicates NO control, NO thought
or impulse control, NO consideration WHATEVER for the ramifications of
her (mis)behavior.
She frankly doesn't give one nano-second's consideration to the
ramifications. She's Out Of Control.
That is the very definition of a "sociopath."
Elaine-- to put it briefly-- is a walking bomb
..• there are jobs begging for such women in the porn film industry - so
why is she wasting time on Usenet ?
And when she explodes, I predict people are going to get hurt.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 06:19:15 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 01:32:24 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <56hhm3hepeim4fjdbsb8t2s0d57nbfrv29@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:34:32 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <9avcm3tak7e3e89fsqqqg0inp2s9tf7lo9@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
** Is Elaine going over the top ?
???? Where have YOU been?
Elaine is LONG gone!
She's created a whole new ceiling and sailed over that!
• Alas, thanx. Maybe she finally realized that Baptist doctrine is
pretty much derived from Catholic doctrine, and it warped her mind?
??? In fact, Baptist doctrine predates Catholic.
If you were ever to SURVEY the New Testament rules (start with the
rules Jesus set out: "Love the Lord your God..", "love each other,"
"Love each other like I loved you (and gave my life for you--
eventually", go into all the world and preach the good news I've
declared to you..."
Begin with those (those are NOT rules/laws the RCC focuses on), and
then comb through the epistles to find the rules the apostles tacked
on. "Don't concern yourselves with what you eat." etc.
Elaine takes one of Jesus' most basic rules, "Do unto others as you
would that they do to you", and she says, "that means, "do unto other
CHRISTIANS..." Then she says, "John Weatherly isn't a Christian, so
that law doesn't apply." Then she says she can treat me as she pleases
because I am a child of Satan.
"convenient." No one (she's REPEATEDLY said) NO ONE is allowed to
judge HER, but she judges EVERYONE else (read "John Weatherly")
Elaine's problem is that she doesn't recognize ANY rules. Elaine is
one who believes that any "rules" are for OTHERS.
Someone who knows the rules but believes they're above those rules
is the walking definition of a sociopath.
I said SEVERAL years ago that she'd had a psychotic break. People
made fun of me. She's now proving GRAPHICALLY, beyond QUESTION that
she's had a psychotic break.
which is why I recently took to labeling her "Insane Elaine."
("it fits")
• well at least it rhymes
That's because I'm also a writer / poet.
I worked on the title for awhile, til I came up with something that
FIT (it's true in my opinion), and it rhymes. That's the poet in me.
Elaine's "out there" (mis)behavior indicates NO control, NO thought
or impulse control, NO consideration WHATEVER for the ramifications of
her (mis)behavior.
She frankly doesn't give one nano-second's consideration to the
ramifications. She's Out Of Control.
That is the very definition of a "sociopath."
Elaine-- to put it briefly-- is a walking bomb
.• there are jobs begging for such women in the porn film industry - so
why is she wasting time on Usenet ?
Because Elaine the Insane has made it her life's work to be IN HERE
every HOUR she can spare to stalk and harass me.
I say "stalk" because she's combed the internet, she's spent God
knows how much money to FIND every SCRAP of information she can on ME.
Who the HELL am I? But Elaine has made it her life's work
(seriously, she's "on a mission for God!") to find every detail of my
life. And she's POSTED it in here.
That has taken a LOT of her time. Time she could devote to useful
pursuits.
But she's devoting it (wasting it) on attempting to make my life
miserable.
She hasn't succeeded.
Have you noticed-- in the past several days-- that she's right back
to mis-behavior of several years ago? She's AGAIN posting my last
known street address.
Why?
And when she explodes, I predict people are going to get hurt.
.
|
|
|
| User: "•R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 11:25:24 AM |
|
|
In article <ci2im3dhpl04a806nghm69fd6biri4ccq3@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 01:32:24 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <56hhm3hepeim4fjdbsb8t2s0d57nbfrv29@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:34:32 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <9avcm3tak7e3e89fsqqqg0inp2s9tf7lo9@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:24:49 -0800, the other party quoth:
ATTENTION:
Typical bragging, blowing, posturing, gesticulating, and routine
CRAPPOLA has prompted the Internet Censorship Squad to over-rule his
post.
Due to the obvious wasted bandwidth space, the above individual's post
has been determined to be unnecessary, totally unacceptable, and has
been DELETED.
** Is Elaine going over the top ?
???? Where have YOU been?
Elaine is LONG gone!
She's created a whole new ceiling and sailed over that!
• Alas, thanx. Maybe she finally realized that Baptist doctrine is
pretty much derived from Catholic doctrine, and it warped her mind?
??? In fact, Baptist doctrine predates Catholic.
• The Baptist Church has it's roots in the 1500s. Roman Church doctrine
was established in the 300s.
If you were ever to SURVEY the New Testament rules (start with the
rules Jesus set out: "Love the Lord your God..", "love each other,"
"Love each other like I loved you (and gave my life for you--
eventually", go into all the world and preach the good news I've
declared to you..."
Begin with those (those are NOT rules/laws the RCC focuses on), and
then comb through the epistles to find the rules the apostles tacked
on. "Don't concern yourselves with what you eat." etc.
Elaine takes one of Jesus' most basic rules, "Do unto others as you
would that they do to you", and she says, "that means, "do unto other
CHRISTIANS..."
• Damn!
Then she says, "John Weatherly isn't a Christian, so
that law doesn't apply." Then she says she can treat me as she pleases
because I am a child of Satan.
• Hell hath no fury ... ...
"convenient." No one (she's REPEATEDLY said) NO ONE is allowed to
judge HER, but she judges EVERYONE
• Elaine is the uncontested censor librorum of ARCR-C.
else (read "John Weatherly")
Elaine's problem is that she doesn't recognize ANY rules. Elaine is
one who believes that any "rules" are for OTHERS.
• yes
Someone who knows the rules but believes they're above those rules
is the walking definition of a sociopath.
• Sociopath is a bit strong. I rate her as a wannabe controller.
I said SEVERAL years ago that she'd had a psychotic break. People
made fun of me. She's now proving GRAPHICALLY, beyond QUESTION that
she's had a psychotic break.
which is why I recently took to labeling her "Insane Elaine."
("it fits")
• well at least it rhymes
That's because I'm also a writer / poet.
I worked on the title for awhile, til I came up with something that
FIT (it's true in my opinion), and it rhymes. That's the poet in me.
Elaine's "out there" (mis)behavior indicates NO control, NO thought
or impulse control, NO consideration WHATEVER for the ramifications of
her (mis)behavior.
She frankly doesn't give one nano-second's consideration to the
ramifications. She's Out Of Control.
That is the very definition of a "sociopath."
Elaine-- to put it briefly-- is a walking bomb
.• there are jobs begging for such women in the porn film industry - so
why is she wasting time on Usenet ?
Because Elaine the Insane has made it her life's work to be IN HERE
every HOUR she can spare to stalk and harass me.
• if I don't get harrassment and death threats, I know I need to improve
on my comments.
I say "stalk" because she's combed the internet, she's spent God
knows how much money to FIND every SCRAP of information she can on ME.
Who the HELL am I? But Elaine has made it her life's work
(seriously, she's "on a mission for God!") to find every detail of my
life. And she's POSTED it in here.
• If she posted every detail of my life, people would be bored to tears
-- Like the time I got arrested by the police when I was 16 for riding a
bicycle at night with only one light instead of two.
That has taken a LOT of her time. Time she could devote to useful
pursuits.
But she's devoting it (wasting it) on attempting to make my life
miserable.
She hasn't succeeded.
Have you noticed-- in the past several days-- that she's right back
to mis-behavior of several years ago? She's AGAIN posting my last
known street address.
Why?
• I don't know, but I post my home telephone number, street address, and
an idiot-resistant how to get here map on my Web site.
cheers
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Would Jesus ride the short bus to school? |
19 Dec 2007 08:44:52 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:25:24 -0800, (•R. L. Measures) wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
| | | | | | | | | | | |
