Religions > Bible > You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Richard Dawkins" |
| Date: |
09 Feb 2006 10:29:52 PM |
| Object: |
You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", then
claim that Jesus never existed.
--
~There are no true atheists in Christian newsgroups.~
~Science is infallible but those hiding behind it are not~
~"If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that
it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and
therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark
would be without meaning.~
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
09 Feb 2006 10:42:43 PM |
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Richard Dawkins wrote:
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", then
claim that Jesus never existed.
Yeah,I added that one to the list over at Tektonics.
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 10:28:38 AM |
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<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",
then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would later
make up a failure?
I think Jesus thought he was leading an uprising against the Romans.
Instead he was executed.
Christianity was later taylored by his followers to explain that failure.
Capella a.a #5
150 bible errors, bible atrocities, bible contradictions, failed prophecies,
etc...
http://www.goatstar.org
.
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 01:30:51 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:28:38 -0600, "Rockett Crawford" <capella@airmail.net>
wrote:
<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",
then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would later
make up a failure?
I think Jesus thought he was leading an uprising against the Romans.
Instead he was executed.
Christianity was later taylored by his followers to explain that failure.
That's an interesting spin on it I don't remember hearing before. Any
recommended reading along those lines? :-? Just curious. :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************
Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 03:11:43 PM |
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"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:063vu190oskune1sdfog1gmpr77s0vjp7a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:28:38 -0600, "Rockett Crawford"
<capella@airmail.net>
wrote:
<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",
then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would later
make up a failure?
I think Jesus thought he was leading an uprising against the Romans.
Instead he was executed.
Christianity was later taylored by his followers to explain that failure.
That's an interesting spin on it I don't remember hearing before. Any
recommended reading along those lines? :-? Just curious. :-)
--
I was going to suggest just doing a search on "Jesus" and "Eschatologist,"
but this appears to just bring up a lot of noise.
Non-apologetic scholars are mainly divided into two groups. Those that think
Jesus was an Echatologist and those that think he was a Reformer.
An Eschatologist is someone that is predicting the end of the world. In the
Gospels Jesus appears to give several clues that he thought the end was
coming and he even clearly claims that it would happen in the lifetime of
his disciples.
(Mat 16:27-28 NRSV) "For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done.
Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death
before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Note that "Son of
Man" doesn't necessarily mean himself).
Jesus also sounded as if a battle was to come:
(Mat 10:34 NRSV) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the
earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
At the time, Judea had been under the dominations of different nations for a
few centuries (the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Greeks, and the Romans).
It was hoped and predicted that a Messiah would arise in the vein of Moses
and David that would lead the Jewish people out of their domination. The
author of Matthew goes out of his way through geneology, his scriptural
references, and through his "Mystery Hero" birth story adventures to portray
Jesus in this manner.
It was thought by some that John the Baptist might be this Messiah (which
they also referred to as the next "Elija").
Jesus appeared to think that an uprising against the Romans was about to
happen that would be supernaturally joined by God and would result in the
end of the world.
I personally think that Jesus was a small time cult leader that had a
control over a small number of people (disciples) in much the same way Jim
Jones controlled his followers, as well as David Koresh, Charles Manson,
etc... All thought their leaders had supernatural powers and all ended up
with their leader's egos forcing issues that involved death and an expected
massive change or supposed end of the world, but instead just ended up with
either the death of the leader and followers or imprisonment. Some think
that the temple incident might have been Jesus' attempt to get the uprising
going.
It was after the temple incident that Jesus was arrested and executed.
Over the next decades other people on different occassions tried to rise up
and lead uprisings which eventually led to a massive Roman crackdown and the
destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Meanwhile the devoted followers of Jesus were left baffled because their
leader was gone and had to make some sense of the tragedy. This is how the
evolution of the Christian beliefs began.
Paul promoted the concept of redemption, possibly because he was from Tarsus
which had a strong Mithric following. Mithraism already had a similar
redemption process except it involved one's sins being washed away by actual
Bull's blood.
Early on Paul was instrumental in helping to turn the execution of Jesus
into a version of this redemption for Christians in which the believer's
sins were "spiritually" washed away by the blood of Jesus instead of a bull.
There were also some concepts borrowed from Greek mystery religions. The
Jewish people at the time had previously been under the domination and
"hellonization" of Greece for some time (they even spoke and wrote in Greek,
the language that the NT is written).
Anyway just a summary.
take care,
Capella a.a #5
What's up with Piltdown?
http://www.goatstar.org
.
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 03:19:36 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:11:43 -0600, "Rockett Crawford" <capella@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:063vu190oskune1sdfog1gmpr77s0vjp7a@4ax.com...
<snip>
That's an interesting spin on it I don't remember hearing before. Any
recommended reading along those lines? :-? Just curious. :-)
--
I was going to suggest just doing a search on "Jesus" and "Eschatologist,"
but this appears to just bring up a lot of noise.
Non-apologetic scholars are mainly divided into two groups. Those that think
Jesus was an Echatologist and those that think he was a Reformer.
<snip for brevity>
Anyway just a summary.
take care,
Capella a.a #5
A hell of a GOOD one, I must say! I really appreciate your taking the time to
type that all out, I found it a fascinating post, and in terms that are easy to
understand. You don't happen to have any books out, do you? You'd make a good
writer if you're not already. Thanks again! :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is when its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 03:42:09 PM |
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"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:mf9vu19rfndq1fmb6hef5ka7u05cmaji1b@4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:11:43 -0600, "Rockett Crawford"
<capella@airmail.net>
wrote:
A hell of a GOOD one, I must say! I really appreciate your taking the
time to
type that all out, I found it a fascinating post, and in terms that are
easy to
understand. You don't happen to have any books out, do you? You'd make a
good
writer if you're not already. Thanks again! :-)
Thanks!
The best book I can recommend is "Mythology's Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus"
by William Harwood (Prometheus books).
It's a facinating read that takes you from the Big Bang through the
development of early religions, and through basically the entire Bible.
take care,
Capella a.a #5
What's up with Piltdown?
http://www.goatstar.org/what%e2%80%99s-up-with-piltdown/
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 03:04:52 PM |
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Rockett Crawford wrote:
<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary
evidence", then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would
later make up a failure?
When you have a lemonmake lemonade.
Jesus the wordly messiah, leader of the world, was a
bust. So they made him a soter god, like other soter gods.
And lied their heads off about what happened after he was
executed.
I think Jesus thought he was leading an uprising against the Romans.
Instead he was executed.
Christianity was later taylored by his followers to explain that
failure.
Capella a.a #5
150 bible errors, bible atrocities, bible contradictions, failed
prophecies, etc...
http://www.goatstar.org
--
To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous
quality in the captain and a positive crime in a statesman.
- George Santayana
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 03:18:05 PM |
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"wbarwell" <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:11uv8ii34adsf9c@corp.supernews.com...
Rockett Crawford wrote:
<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary
evidence", then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would
later make up a failure?
When you have a lemonmake lemonade.
Jesus the wordly messiah, leader of the world, was a
bust. So they made him a soter god, like other soter gods.
And lied their heads off about what happened after he was
executed.
Excellent points. The early followers had to rationalize the sudden and
unexpected death of their leader.
Capella a.a #5
150 bible atrocities, bible errors, bible contradictions, failed prophecies,
etc...
http://www.goatstar.org
.
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
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| Title: Did Jesus actually exist? (was Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192) |
12 Feb 2006 03:15:01 PM |
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"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:063vu190oskune1sdfog1gmpr77s0vjp7a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:28:38 -0600, "Rockett Crawford"
<capella@airmail.net>
wrote:
<jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:1139546563.374014.284320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",
then
claim that Jesus never existed.
I think Jesus existed, because he failed. I doubt Christians would later
make up a failure?
I think Jesus thought he was leading an uprising against the Romans.
Instead he was executed.
Christianity was later taylored by his followers to explain that failure.
That's an interesting spin on it I don't remember hearing before. Any
recommended reading along those lines? :-? Just curious. :-)
--
I was going to suggest just doing a search on "Jesus" and "Eschatologist,"
but this appears to just bring up a lot of noise.
Non-apologetic scholars are mainly divided into two groups. Those that think
Jesus was an Echatologist and those that think he was a Reformer.
An Eschatologist is someone that is predicting the end of the world. In the
Gospels Jesus appears to give several clues that he thought the end was
coming and he even clearly claims that it would happen in the lifetime of
his disciples.
(Mat 16:27-28 NRSV) "For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done.
Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death
before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Note that "Son of
Man" doesn't necessarily mean himself).
Jesus also sounded as if a battle was to come:
(Mat 10:34 NRSV) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the
earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
At the time, Judea had been under the dominations of different nations for a
few centuries (the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Greeks, and the Romans).
It was hoped and predicted that a Messiah would arise in the vein of Moses
and David that would lead the Jewish people out of their domination. The
author of Matthew goes out of his way through geneology, his scriptural
references, and through his "Mystery Hero" birth story adventures to portray
Jesus in this manner.
It was thought by some that John the Baptist might be this Messiah (which
they also referred to as the next "Elija").
Jesus appeared to think that an uprising against the Romans was about to
happen that would be supernaturally joined by God and would result in the
end of the world.
I personally think that Jesus was a small time cult leader that had a
control over a small number of people (disciples) in much the same way Jim
Jones controlled his followers, as well as David Koresh, Charles Manson,
etc... All thought their leaders had supernatural powers and all ended up
with their leader's egos forcing issues that involved death and an expected
massive change or supposed end of the world, but instead just ended up with
either the death of the leader and followers or imprisonment. Some think
that the temple incident might have been Jesus' attempt to get the uprising
going.
It was after the temple incident that Jesus was arrested and executed.
Over the next decades other people on different occassions tried to rise up
and lead uprisings which eventually led to a massive Roman crackdown and the
destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Meanwhile the devoted followers of Jesus were left baffled because their
leader was gone and had to make some sense of the tragedy. This is how the
evolution of the Christian beliefs began.
Paul promoted the concept of redemption, possibly because he was from Tarsus
which had a strong Mithric following. Mithraism already had a similar
redemption process except it involved one's sins being washed away by actual
Bull's blood.
Early on Paul was instrumental in helping to turn the execution of Jesus
into a version of this redemption for Christians in which the believer's
sins were "spiritually" washed away by the blood of Jesus instead of a bull.
There were also some concepts borrowed from Greek mystery religions. The
Jewish people at the time had previously been under the domination and
"hellonization" of Greece for some time (they even spoke and wrote in Greek,
the language that the NT is written).
Anyway just a summary.
take care,
Capella a.a #5
What's up with Piltdown?
http://www.goatstar.org
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus actually exist? (was Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating |
12 Feb 2006 03:32:43 PM |
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Certainly not the character IESOUS found in the Gospels.-- L.
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: You may be a Fundy God-Hating anti theist moron if : NO 192 |
12 Feb 2006 10:36:37 AM |
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wrote:
Richard Dawkins wrote:
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", then
claim that Jesus never existed.
Yeah,I added that one to the list over at Tektonics.
So you have actual extra-biblical, non-forged evidence Jesus existed?
.
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