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Topic: Sociology > Depression
User: "Trishamolson"
Date: 09 Jun 2004 08:08:14 AM
Object: @@
In reading and researching for the thesis, the weight of the question of the
meaning -- moral and spiritual significance -- of pain and suffering in
medieval punishment struck me, though the question of course was right there
demanding to be answered all along. The answer to my question as a historical
matter implicates the question of how can suffering exist in a world created by
an absolutely just God. Put idfferently, is evil justified? Does it have a
place in His cosmos?
The answers that Aquinas and Julian of Norwich give to this question are
astounding . . . utterly astouding for they imply that evil always as a shred
of good within it. When one thinks concretely about horrific evils such as
happened with the Nazis, or even closer to the present such as Sept 11, it
becomes an astounding and hard hard thought to think (of course I am not
explaining here how they see it as retaining good -- that will take 50 pages or
more).
But I realize in doing this work that it implicates a question I have always
asked, I can recall asking it as young as 5 when I tried to hang myself, how
does one account for evil if God is absolute good? Silly eh, an infant wanting
a theodicy.
I hope I can do this work. I have been so exhausted and spun lately. The move
is in 4 weeks. Behind in everything, though I forced myself to go to a
presentation last night. Trying to "be" *in* the world. But depression, as
everyone knows, puts up obstacle after obstacle to thriving. . . I really wish
to do a decent job on this thesis out of respect for thinkers like Aquinas who
spent a life thinking through thoughts I can barely wrap my brain around.
Anyone read Aquinas "On Evil"? Incredible. Hope everyone is well.
Rosena
.

User: "Alan Harding"

Title: Re: @@ 09 Jun 2004 03:10:28 PM
In message <20040609090814.02692.00000686@mb-m28.aol.com>, Trishamolson
<trishamolson@aol.com> writes


In reading and researching for the thesis, the weight of the question of the
meaning -- moral and spiritual significance -- of pain and suffering in
medieval punishment struck me, though the question of course was right there
demanding to be answered all along. The answer to my question as a historical
matter implicates the question of how can suffering exist in a world created by
an absolutely just God. Put idfferently, is evil justified? Does it have a
place in His cosmos?

The answers that Aquinas and Julian of Norwich give to this question are
astounding . . . utterly astouding for they imply that evil always as a shred
of good within it. When one thinks concretely about horrific evils such as
happened with the Nazis, or even closer to the present such as Sept 11, it
becomes an astounding and hard hard thought to think (of course I am not
explaining here how they see it as retaining good -- that will take 50 pages or
more).

But I realize in doing this work that it implicates a question I have always
asked, I can recall asking it as young as 5 when I tried to hang myself, how
does one account for evil if God is absolute good? Silly eh, an infant wanting
a theodicy.

I hope I can do this work. I have been so exhausted and spun lately. The move
is in 4 weeks. Behind in everything, though I forced myself to go to a
presentation last night. Trying to "be" *in* the world. But depression, as
everyone knows, puts up obstacle after obstacle to thriving. . . I really wish
to do a decent job on this thesis out of respect for thinkers like Aquinas who
spent a life thinking through thoughts I can barely wrap my brain around.

Anyone read Aquinas "On Evil"? Incredible. Hope everyone is well.

What are you going to do when you've finished evil and suffering?
Forgiveness, perhaps?
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
User: "Trishamolson"

Title: Re: @@ 09 Jun 2004 05:38:06 PM

What are you going to do when you've finished evil and suffering?
Forgiveness, perhaps?

Hi you -- hope meeting well for your son. This is last reply and/or email I
send tonight. Too wipe mentally to think. But just wanted to say quick that all
my work up to now has dealth with mercy and grace in the context of punishment.
The sense of the idea that wrongs and sin can be forgiven. Ten years worth of
work. But finally, I decided, I had to face other side of the coin and ask is
punishment imposed even death sometimes the righteous course? And so too, is
there any room for grace even in that act? Or, can suffering be a good?
All big questions, eh?
I owe you another email and will write. Just too messed up right now to
converse or communicate.
me
.


User: "Whiskers"

Title: Re: @@ 09 Jun 2004 05:32:47 PM
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:08:14 +0000,
(Trishamolson)
wrote:
snip

But I realize in doing this work that it implicates a question I have
always asked, I can recall asking it as young as 5 when I tried to hang
myself, how does one account for evil if God is absolute good? Silly eh,
an infant wanting a theodicy.

snip
That's a perfectly good question, and one that (as you now know) has
plagued some of the worlds greatest thinkers. Five-year-olds ask the
/best/ questions (sometimes!) :))
I think it boils down to "how can I understand God's purpose?" and "come
to that, what /is/ God's purpose?". As we are a part of that purpose, I
doubt if we'll ever know the answers to such questions (at least, not in
this life), so a more useful debate might be "how do we [ie I] deal with ...".
Non-monotheistic philosophies have other suggestions, which in practical
terms also seem to end up with "how do we ..." (as far as my limited
dilletante studies go).
Asking questions gets you a lot further than knowing the answers :))
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
.
User: "Alan Harding"

Title: Re: @@ 10 Jun 2004 01:44:08 AM
In message
<pan.2004.06.09.22.32.43.806364@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>, Whiskers
<catwheezel@operamail.com> writes

snip

That's a perfectly good question, and one that (as you now know) has
plagued some of the worlds greatest thinkers. Five-year-olds ask the
/best/ questions (sometimes!) :))

The five-year-old in my latest story asks 'Mummy, where are my Tigger
'jamas?'
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
User: "Whiskers"

Title: Re: @@ 10 Jun 2004 10:16:53 AM
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:44:08 +0100, Alan Harding
<Alan@harding.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message
<pan.2004.06.09.22.32.43.806364@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>, Whiskers
<catwheezel@operamail.com> writes

snip

That's a perfectly good question, and one that (as you now know) has
plagued some of the worlds greatest thinkers. Five-year-olds ask the
/best/ questions (sometimes!) :))


The five-year-old in my latest story asks 'Mummy, where are my Tigger
'jamas?'

Sounds like a good question to me :))
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
.




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