@ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @

Sociology > Depression > @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 1

Topic:	Sociology > Depression
User:	"Rosena"
Date:	20 Oct 2005 09:04:05 AM
Object:	@ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @

We went to meeting at Maria's shool - they think she is worse off than
even we thought - cutting in bathroom etc. - depressed etc. They think
she needs intense intervention - perhaps hospital for couple of weeks
and sort of insist on that before she can come to school.
They gave us number of children physc. hospital program and we called
and are to take Maria in immeidately for "assessment of services" and
evaluation where I guess they will decide if she is in or out patient .
.. . Leif just went to get Maria from school and we will leave in half
hour -
Is anyone here? This is triggering me - I am okay outwardly for Maria,
but scared and spinning. I don't want her in patient away from me but I
DO know that kind of intense intervention may be best . . . I will do
what doctors suggest and you guys suggest (whom I trust)
School said they wanted her back . . . Okay. Just any advice on coping,
or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email me
please.
Rosena
.

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 10:47:36 AM

"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129817045.448975.210820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

If it's a program designed specifically for adoloscents and they have a lot
of activities and therapy and an excellent reputation...maybe. If it's your
typical psych ward and the in patient would be designed to keep her
controlled and get her stabilized on some med concoction, I'd be really
wary. As a matter of fact I'd be wary either way, Rosena, but especially
about inpatient in the psych ward of some hospital.
I was hospitalized at 13 after a suicide attempt (really just a cry for
help, almost always is at that age) into an adoloscent facility and it
wasn't helpful at all. I felt labeled as the problem in the family when
really I was just the symptom. I became a convenient scapegoat, that's how
I saw it at least. What followed was drugs, running away, foster care,
dropping out of high school and finally leaving home for good at 16. So you
can see I have a bias based on my own personal experiences - but that was
due to the quality of the care I received. Perhaps shrinks are better at
teenagers now, I don't know.
One thing to consider is that the most influential people in Maria's life
right now are her peers. You plop her into a group of SI'ing adoloscents
with problems that are exactly like hers (and worse)...I wish she could do a
group therapy with other kids her age in which no socializing was permitted.

They gave us number of children physc. hospital program and we called
and are to take Maria in immeidately for "assessment of services" and
evaluation where I guess they will decide if she is in or out patient .
. . Leif just went to get Maria from school and we will leave in half
hour -

Is anyone here? This is triggering me - I am okay outwardly for Maria,
but scared and spinning. I don't want her in patient away from me but I
DO know that kind of intense intervention may be best . . . I will do
what doctors suggest and you guys suggest (whom I trust)

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

School said they wanted her back . . . Okay. Just any advice on coping,
or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email me
please.

She's your kid. I think you should really go by your instinct on what the
cutting and SI really means. If you truly think she's serious about killing
herself, there's no choice but to make sure she is being closely watched for
a short while, until this crisis passes. If you think it's a cry for help
and attention, give her that along with whatever other help you, your entire
family, can get.
It's an enormous and frightening call to make, I know.
Jean

Rosena

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 10:59:52 AM

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xu-dnbewRoO1IcreRVn-oQ@rogers.com...

<snip>

One thing to consider is that the most influential people in Maria's life
right now are her peers. You plop her into a group of SI'ing adoloscents
with problems that are exactly like hers (and worse)...I wish she could do

group therapy with other kids her age in which no socializing was

permitted.
I was thinking about this. Perhaps interacting with her peers would be a
really good thing, even if it were in an in patient setting. Probably
better than interacting with adult professionals only.
It's a really hard thing to give lame usenet advice on. I think the best
advice I gave was to go with your instincts and to keep her out of an
institutionalized hospital type of psych setting. Personally I think she's
too young for major psychiatric medications, too. We over do this kind of
stuff with children in this day and age, I think.
Jean
'box of salt, take it all with a box of salt'

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

She's your kid. I think you should really go by your instinct on what the
cutting and SI really means. If you truly think she's serious about

killing

herself, there's no choice but to make sure she is being closely watched

for

a short while, until this crisis passes. If you think it's a cry for help
and attention, give her that along with whatever other help you, your

entire

family, can get.

It's an enormous and frightening call to make, I know.

Jean

Rosena

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 11:29:45 AM

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:RN2dnSwq_9GaIsreRVn-sQ@rogers.com...

I was thinking about this. Perhaps interacting with her peers would be a
really good thing, even if it were in an in patient setting. Probably
better than interacting with adult professionals only.

I agree. Especially in a controlled environment where the emphasis is on
why cutting is an unhealthy and dangerous coping mechanism.
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "justpackrat"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 02:11:13 PM

Agree here with Jean in reguards to the meds. Encourage you by all
means to seek immediate treatment and attention. Yet as far as meds?
I'm pretty anti meds period, but especially when it comes to kids as
young as Maria.
God speed and blessings.....if that's not too cheesy to say, but my
heart's intentions are good.
Love, C
Luna wrote:

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xu-dnbewRoO1IcreRVn-oQ@rogers.com...

<snip>

group therapy with other kids her age in which no socializing was

permitted.

I was thinking about this. Perhaps interacting with her peers would be a
really good thing, even if it were in an in patient setting. Probably
better than interacting with adult professionals only.

It's a really hard thing to give lame usenet advice on. I think the best
advice I gave was to go with your instincts and to keep her out of an
institutionalized hospital type of psych setting. Personally I think she's
too young for major psychiatric medications, too. We over do this kind of
stuff with children in this day and age, I think.

Jean
'box of salt, take it all with a box of salt'

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

She's your kid. I think you should really go by your instinct on what the
cutting and SI really means. If you truly think she's serious about

killing

herself, there's no choice but to make sure she is being closely watched

for

a short while, until this crisis passes. If you think it's a cry for help
and attention, give her that along with whatever other help you, your

entire

family, can get.

It's an enormous and frightening call to make, I know.

Jean

Rosena

User: "Nina"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 11:01:25 AM

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:47:36 -0400, "Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a REALLY good point.

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

And this is, too. Frankly, I think that a solution to Maria's
problems has to involve some attempt to solve the problems of her
parents, and that means that EVERYONE has to cooperate, not only in
doing things that make Maria well, but in things that make Rosena and
Leif well, too.

She's your kid. I think you should really go by your instinct on what the
cutting and SI really means. If you truly think she's serious about killing
herself, there's no choice but to make sure she is being closely watched for
a short while, until this crisis passes. If you think it's a cry for help
and attention, give her that along with whatever other help you, your entire
family, can get.

It's an enormous and frightening call to make, I know.

Yeah. I don't know what the right thing to do is, either, although I
don't think that just sticking Maria back into school and hoping that
things get better is an acceptable option. The school won't go for
it, probably, and this situation has arguably been building for a long
time, anyway, although I don't think that this outcome was exactly
obvious.
Rosena, you wrote this last night:

I am hurting about John. I wish people did not call it an obession
like it was an illness to love despite someone's *****. Am I really
dramatic? I don't feel dramatic or beyond the moon. Maybe I cannot see
clearly.

And you know, it IS an illness, although I know you don't want to
accept that... and no one has more right to say that than I do,
because I understand it. The reason when you go back to thinking
about John when you're very stressed... and I've seen you do that
again and again... is because it's part of a whole traumatic series of
events that you've never gotten close to getting over or processing in
a way that's healthy. (All of which is VERY hard to do.) You've put
a lid on all of your own issues, buried yourself in work, and hoped
that they would fix themselves. And, yeah, I totally understand that;
that's my life up until the last couple of years. If you want to get
well, and you have to get well for Maria, if not for yourself, you
need to get some way of dealing with these things, and I think that's
therapy. Medication may stabilize you, but it doesn't make anything
better in the long run. These are cognitive, behavioral issues, and
in the long run, medication is useless for these things as anything
except a tranquilizer, essentially.

.

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 11:25:07 AM

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:f9ffl11b6dv5g51sh6rddg6mnpfq0m42fd@4ax.com...

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:47:36 -0400, "Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a REALLY good point.

It got me to thinking (as I was walking the dog after making my original
post) that it's posible she'll find like minded friends wherever she goes,
there seems to be no shortage of impulsive acting out among teenage girls.
I don't think it's an epidemic by any stretch but it's definitely
significant.
Just worries me that if it's acting out, attention getting behaviour and
knowing the competitive nature of young girls, I can just see the sick
thinking of who can do worse, who is suffering the most. Worries me. Good
way to get introduced to drugs, too.

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

It could help alleviate Rosena's enormous guilt, too. I was thinking about
all the kids who are moved around (military kids, for example) and don't end
up suicidal by the age of 13. Then I was thinking of Rosena's mother and
Rosena herself, it's very possible that Maria just got the mix of tendency
toward depression coupled with a rougher than most childhoods that makes for
the perfect potion for teenage acting out.
Then there's the obvious, if Rosena and Leif are willing to look at
themselves and embrace some sort of therapeutic intervention it could
encourage Maria to do the same. It's not a Maria problem, it's a family
problem, right?

She's your kid. I think you should really go by your instinct on what

the

cutting and SI really means. If you truly think she's serious about

killing

herself, there's no choice but to make sure she is being closely watched

for

a short while, until this crisis passes. If you think it's a cry for

help

and attention, give her that along with whatever other help you, your

entire

family, can get.

It's an enormous and frightening call to make, I know.

This one isn't getting fixed overnight, that's for sure. Get 'em out alive,
unaddicted, healthy and with some sort of future, worry about skipping
through the tulips later.
Jean

Rosena, you wrote this last night:

User: "lisa in mass."
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	21 Oct 2005 02:35:27 PM

Luna wrote...

Just worries me that if it's acting out, attention getting
behaviour and knowing the competitive nature of young
girls, I can just see the sick thinking of who can do
worse, who is suffering the most. Worries me. Good way to
get introduced to drugs, too.

if it's not acting out, she may well resort to drugs as an
additional coping strategy. something to watch for. i was si'ing
in high school. nobody else knew. i did every drug a neighbor's
older brother could supply, though. spent most of my day high.
-lisa
.

User: "Nina"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 11:56:59 AM

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:25:07 -0400, "Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:f9ffl11b6dv5g51sh6rddg6mnpfq0m42fd@4ax.com...

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:47:36 -0400, "Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a REALLY good point.

Well, being a teenage girl IS about acting out, in some ways.

Just worries me that if it's acting out, attention getting behaviour and
knowing the competitive nature of young girls, I can just see the sick
thinking of who can do worse, who is suffering the most. Worries me. Good
way to get introduced to drugs, too.

That's what concerns me. I mean... we've seen people here, in the
past, who've never thought of the idea of cutting, and they get
introduced to the concept, and the next thing you know... Make that a
group of kids, who essentially become role models for each other, and
you can take a problem and intensify it. I mean, in a perfect world,
you'd put Maria with a lot of friends who would see cutting as totally
unacceptable, not the other way around.

I don't see the advantage of trusting doctors completely. They will give
you options, hopefully. I think family therapy is also a must here.

I was thinking about exactly this the other day. You can never, ever
know how things would play out. Sure, it's possible that moving
around has not been great for Maria, but I see that as the absolute
least of the problems here, and it's very likely true that a lot of
this is hereditary.

Then there's the obvious, if Rosena and Leif are willing to look at
themselves and embrace some sort of therapeutic intervention it could
encourage Maria to do the same. It's not a Maria problem, it's a family
problem, right?

Exactly. And it's not a Maria and Rosena problem; it's a Maria and
Rosena and LEIF problem.
.

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 02:35:38 PM

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:cqifl1lmc7cpi4br8rufqfu1pimbti3bpa@4ax.com...

Well, being a teenage girl IS about acting out, in some ways.

But to this extent? I fear it has gone far beyond that. By the time I was
14 *normal* acting out meant breaking curfew, smoking cigarettes, skipping
class, and mouthing off to your parents. I was the only 14 year I knew of
who was carving symbols into my arm and actively trying to die.
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 02:56:32 PM

"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:glS5f.11783$ns3.1012205@news20.bellglobal.com...

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:cqifl1lmc7cpi4br8rufqfu1pimbti3bpa@4ax.com...

Well, being a teenage girl IS about acting out, in some ways.

But to this extent? I fear it has gone far beyond that. By the time I

was

14 *normal* acting out meant breaking curfew, smoking cigarettes, skipping
class, and mouthing off to your parents. I was the only 14 year I knew of
who was carving symbols into my arm and actively trying to die.

I don't think she's actively trying to die, almost the opposite.
You and I were 14 at about the exact same moment and I had lots of friends
doing crap like this to themselves. Lots of long sleeved turtlenecks going
on - to hide the hickeys and the cut marks simultaneously. There were drugs
too, plenty of drugs. Plath poetry. Secret notebooks, stealing our dad's
booze, river parties, divorce and abuse and failing and hitchhiking, tons
of that. It's the dawning of deep meaning in the mind and that can pack one
powerful punch.
I probably pass these girls/women at the A&P now and don't recognize them in
their pillow quilted parkas and nice little 'do's and datebooks full of
appointments. In other words, most people survive their adoloscence,
including girls who cut and talk tough about SI. No, it's not normal but
it's not all that unusual, either.
What I'm trying to say here about this is that the best therapy Maria will
get will come from a healthy peer group and an improved sense of stability
and happiness within her family. It's the entire family that is in trouble
here. Would we even be talking about institutionalizing all of them?
I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.
Jean

--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 04:13:15 PM

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:zqCdnZTbgODia8reRVn-2w@rogers.com...

I don't think she's actively trying to die, almost the opposite.

Not yet, is what I meant.

You and I were 14 at about the exact same moment and I had lots of friends
doing crap like this to themselves. Lots of long sleeved turtlenecks

going

on - to hide the hickeys and the cut marks simultaneously. There were

drugs

too, plenty of drugs. Plath poetry. Secret notebooks, stealing our dad's
booze, river parties, divorce and abuse and failing and hitchhiking, tons
of that. It's the dawning of deep meaning in the mind and that can pack

one

powerful punch.

Exactly. And here we sit in Alt.support.depression talking about it.

I probably pass these girls/women at the A&P now and don't recognize them

their pillow quilted parkas and nice little 'do's and datebooks full of
appointments. In other words, most people survive their adoloscence,
including girls who cut and talk tough about SI. No, it's not normal but
it's not all that unusual, either.

Just because I am alive doesn't mean I survived. You know? That's my
problem with this. I don't think it matters that's it's not unusual. I
think it only matters that it's not normal. And it's all about the kid too.
A hundred kids could have the same background and grow up fine. That ONE
child won't. Who wants to take that chance? I wouldn't if it were my
child.

trouble

here. Would we even be talking about institutionalizing all of them?

I'm all for family therapy. Part of this has been a family problem from the
beginning of the family. Unfortunately and to the detriment of their
children adults get to make their own choices, but doing right by her now at
her age and she might have a whole different and much better outcome than we
did.

I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.

I agree and disagree. Lets just say I feel torn in two over this. What I
meant to say and didn't say clearly was that by the time Maria is 14 it
could be worse if things aren't handled well now. What I meant was, at 12 I
was Maria, doing what Maria is doing, writing about the same things she is,
talking the same way she is. When the doctor told my mother..."All teen
girls go through this stage...all teen girls act out...don't overreact
she'll outgrow it"...my illness, which he was pretty much telling my mother
I didn't have, was never taken seriously and went untreated and it ruined my
life. I am beginning to think I am no good advice wise on this one.
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 04:53:00 PM

"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:XMT5f.11829$ns3.1025901@news20.bellglobal.com...

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:zqCdnZTbgODia8reRVn-2w@rogers.com...

I don't think she's actively trying to die, almost the opposite.

Not yet, is what I meant.

You and I were 14 at about the exact same moment and I had lots of

friends

doing crap like this to themselves. Lots of long sleeved turtlenecks

going

on - to hide the hickeys and the cut marks simultaneously. There were

drugs

too, plenty of drugs. Plath poetry. Secret notebooks, stealing our

dad's

booze, river parties, divorce and abuse and failing and hitchhiking,

tons

of that. It's the dawning of deep meaning in the mind and that can pack

one

powerful punch.

Exactly. And here we sit in Alt.support.depression talking about it.

I have far more vivid memories of my adoloscence than I do of my twenties
and thirties. I guess that's why I'm talking about it, it just seemed to be
such a pivotal point for me and the way I was handled during that time
really fucked me up, long term. Not that I don't come by that honestly or
anything, but being institutionalized, fostered, arrested, etc...it was just
all bad. I'm really talking about myself more than anything, I guess.

I probably pass these girls/women at the A&P now and don't recognize

them

but

it's not all that unusual, either.

too.

A hundred kids could have the same background and grow up fine. That ONE
child won't. Who wants to take that chance? I wouldn't if it were my
child.

I totally understand that - it's just that my own life experiences spell out
the opposite result. I had a cousin kill himself on the grounds of the
Clark Institute in your home town. My brother was under psychiatric care
and *heavily* medicated when he killed himself. My ex was under psychiatric
care when he finally killed himself and tried to numerous times with the
meds his psych was freely prescribing to him.
The key factor in my situation was the treatment of the presenting teen (Me)
as the problem without treating the whole family and it seemed to shift the
focus, causing even a greater chasm between what the kid was trying to say -
"Look at this fucked up situation!" to the kid being treated as the Big
Problem.

What I'm trying to say here about this is that the best therapy Maria

will

get will come from a healthy peer group and an improved sense of

stability

and happiness within her family. It's the entire family that is in

trouble

here. Would we even be talking about institutionalizing all of them?

I'm all for family therapy. Part of this has been a family problem from

the

beginning of the family. Unfortunately and to the detriment of their
children adults get to make their own choices, but doing right by her now

her age and she might have a whole different and much better outcome than

did.

Yeah, and that's the big problem, knowing what the Right Thing to Do
actually is. If any one of us knew that, it'd be so cool. We don't, all we
have are our own problems coloring our own opinions. I'm not trying to make
a case for what Rosena should do about Maria. I don't feel confident enough
to do that. I just think caution and a realiance on the family unit is
something that I didn't get - they just flung me at the professionals and
walked away - it wasn't helpful, it cost me, all of us. I mean, who are
these professionals anyway? Just human beings.

I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.

was Maria, doing what Maria is doing, writing about the same things she

is,

talking the same way she is. When the doctor told my mother..."All teen
girls go through this stage...all teen girls act out...don't overreact
she'll outgrow it"...my illness, which he was pretty much telling my

mother

I didn't have, was never taken seriously and went untreated and it ruined

life. I am beginning to think I am no good advice wise on this one.

I feel exactly the same way, Rhiannon. I worry that my own negative
experiences taint the value of my opinions. The problem with stuff like
this is that it's so far from 2+2=4 as to be in a whole 'nuther galaxy.
I think various opinions are the best. Anyone reading would hopefully
recognize what feels most like the truth of what their family is going
through and adopt that tact. You were ignored when you were going through
your stuff - I was invaded. No wonder we each feel the way we do.
Jean

--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 05:20:46 PM

"Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aIadnaBjhrpXjMXeRVn-vA@rogers.com...

I think various opinions are the best. Anyone reading would hopefully
recognize what feels most like the truth of what their family is going
through and adopt that tact. You were ignored when you were going through
your stuff - I was invaded. No wonder we each feel the way we do.

Jean

Yeah. Everything you said makes perfect sense but this last bit is
brilliant! You're absolutely on target with this. I suppose the best
approach is somewhere in between. I hope Rosena can find it. :)
--
Rhi
.

User: "slunky"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 04:51:39 PM

Luna <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.

Jean

Nor do I. I was an adolescent with very serious mental illness. On one
of the trips to the hospital they decided my mother was unfit to deal
with me (not that she was an unfit parent, just unfit to care for me) I
was removed from her custody and got lost in the system for years,
unable to see my parents as I was removed from the area about 100 miles
away.
I can't say the hospital was a bad experiece, in fact it was very good
for me. I got to interact and peers my own age going through similar
problems. I got on the drugs that keep me semi-stable now. I would only
recommend this, DO NOT TRUST SOCIAL WORKERS. DO NOT GIVE IN TO THEM IF
WHAT THEY RECOMMEND IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO YOU.
regards,
-slunky
.

User: "Luna"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 06:22:46 PM

"slunky" <spam@showingourscars.org> wrote in message
news:dj93hb$n62$1@chessie.cirr.com...

Luna <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.

Jean

Nor do I. I was an adolescent with very serious mental illness. On one
of the trips to the hospital they decided my mother was unfit to deal
with me (not that she was an unfit parent, just unfit to care for me) I
was removed from her custody and got lost in the system for years,
unable to see my parents as I was removed from the area about 100 miles
away.

I can't say the hospital was a bad experiece, in fact it was very good
for me. I got to interact and peers my own age going through similar
problems. I got on the drugs that keep me semi-stable now. I would only
recommend this, DO NOT TRUST SOCIAL WORKERS. DO NOT GIVE IN TO THEM IF
WHAT THEY RECOMMEND IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO YOU.

Yeah. I'd say the same about doctors, too. And schools.
Jean

regards,

-slunky

User: "Nina"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 03:55:12 PM

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:56:32 -0400, "Luna" <lunajean@gmail.com> wrote:

"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:glS5f.11783$ns3.1012205@news20.bellglobal.com...

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:cqifl1lmc7cpi4br8rufqfu1pimbti3bpa@4ax.com...

Well, being a teenage girl IS about acting out, in some ways.

But to this extent? I fear it has gone far beyond that. By the time I

was

I don't think she's actively trying to die, almost the opposite.

You and I were 14 at about the exact same moment and I had lots of friends
doing crap like this to themselves. Lots of long sleeved turtlenecks going
on - to hide the hickeys and the cut marks simultaneously. There were drugs
too, plenty of drugs. Plath poetry. Secret notebooks, stealing our dad's
booze, river parties, divorce and abuse and failing and hitchhiking, tons
of that. It's the dawning of deep meaning in the mind and that can pack one
powerful punch.

I probably pass these girls/women at the A&P now and don't recognize them in
their pillow quilted parkas and nice little 'do's and datebooks full of
appointments. In other words, most people survive their adoloscence,
including girls who cut and talk tough about SI. No, it's not normal but
it's not all that unusual, either.

I think that the thing that probably saved me from a lot worse things
as an adolescent was a good peer group. And I think, too, that
unfortunately the easy access to information about suicide and
self-injury is not a plus. When I was a kid... well, I wasn't
actively suicidal in the way that I became later, although I was
certainly depressed as hell and had lots of behavioral problems. I
never even heard of cutting until my psychiatrist mentioned it to me
when I was in my mid-30s. I thought, why would anyone do that?
<yeah, naive me> But once you start considering these things, they
are amazingly seductive.

What I'm trying to say here about this is that the best therapy Maria will
get will come from a healthy peer group and an improved sense of stability
and happiness within her family. It's the entire family that is in trouble
here. Would we even be talking about institutionalizing all of them?

I don't trust mental health care when it comes to children very much.

I guess that when you get right down to it, I don't trust mental
health care very much, period. But it's a little easier if you're an
adult, and you have some ability to make some kind of judgements for
yourself, and you can try therapists until you find the right
person/treatment/whatever for you. I think it's a hell of a lot
harder for kids, although in some ways, I think that doctors tend of
be less cavalier about mental health problems in kids... for adults,
the immediate response is, stick them on meds and see if it works. I
think that these days, there is at least somewhat more care taken.
Sometimes I really think that the ease of putting people on medication
has done us no long-term favors as a society.
.

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 04:24:24 PM

"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:5k0gl119h4cinndvce94cgltjqd2crkqtp@4ax.com...

I guess that when you get right down to it, I don't trust mental
health care very much, period. But it's a little easier if you're an
adult, and you have some ability to make some kind of judgements for
yourself, and you can try therapists until you find the right
person/treatment/whatever for you. I think it's a hell of a lot
harder for kids, although in some ways, I think that doctors tend of
be less cavalier about mental health problems in kids... for adults,
the immediate response is, stick them on meds and see if it works. I
think that these days, there is at least somewhat more care taken.

Sometimes I really think that the ease of putting people on medication
has done us no long-term favors as a society.

I'm thinking this is just too close to home for me. I think I'm
overreacting. I think you and Jean may have a clearer perspective on this
and Rosena is better off listening to youz guyz. :)
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 11:13:33 AM

"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129817045.448975.210820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I'm so sorry hon. I wish I could hug you right now.

They may be right. The danger in this kind of excessive and uncontrolled
cutting - and it is if she is doing in the school washroom assuming that's
what you're saying - is that it is VERY easy to *accidentally* cut too deep.
OTOH you did say in a previous post that the principal was hysterical, in
which case she may be over reacting and it is not in your best interest to
trust her judgement.

I can only tell you what _I_ would do. In the same situation - if it were
my
child - I would defer to the medical experts in the adolescent program and
trust their judgement. If after the evaluation they think she needs
hospitalization
then I would agree to it. If it were a serious physical illness a parent
would not
hesitate to hospitalize their child and perhaps this should be approached
the same
way. Always better to err on the side of *safe* IMHO.
BUT you also told us the therapist said she was not at risk for suicide or
in
danger and would be okay for now, so I would also contact her ASAP to
tell her what is going on and get her opinion as well. Tell her office it
is an
EMERGENCY and you need advice NOW.

Is anyone here? This is triggering me - I am okay outwardly for Maria,
but scared and spinning. I don't want her in patient away from me but I
DO know that kind of intense intervention may be best . . . I will do
what doctors suggest and you guys suggest (whom I trust)
School said they wanted her back . . . Okay. Just any advice on coping,
or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email me
please.
Rosena

Of course you're scared. This would trigger any parent. Including a
non-depressed
parent. Go easy on yourself. You know how much worse this illness can get
and
yet all of us are still here, still surviving it. In other words, work on
your panic. Just
because this has suddenly become intense and time critical doesn't mean she
is moments
away from some drastic action or behaviour. I trust too that a children's
facility will
handle her a lot more gently and carefully then all the worst possible
things you may
be fearing at the moment. Good luck. I'll be thinking about you both.
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Whiskers"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	21 Oct 2005 08:32:00 AM

On 2005-10-20, Rhiannon <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote:
snip

OTOH you did say in a previous post that the principal was hysterical, in
which case she may be over reacting and it is not in your best interest to
trust her judgement.

Agreed. From what Rosena has told us, I get the feeling that the school
are part of the problem and are trying to make it someone else's problem.
snip

BUT you also told us the therapist said she was not at risk for suicide or
in danger and would be okay for now, so I would also contact her ASAP to
tell her what is going on and get her opinion as well. Tell her office it
is an EMERGENCY and you need advice NOW.

YES!!!
snip

Of course you're scared. This would trigger any parent. Including a
non-depressed parent. Go easy on yourself. You know how much worse this
illness can get and yet all of us are still here, still surviving it. In
other words, work on your panic. Just because this has suddenly become
intense and time critical doesn't mean she is moments away from some
drastic action or behaviour. I trust too that a children's facility will
handle her a lot more gently and carefully then all the worst possible
things you may be fearing at the moment. Good luck. I'll be thinking
about you both.

That goes for me too.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
.

User: "pannah"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 03:24:58 PM

"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129817045.448975.210820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

We went to meeting at Maria's shool - they think she is worse off than
even we thought - cutting in bathroom etc. - depressed etc. They think
she needs intense intervention - perhaps hospital for couple of weeks
and sort of insist on that before she can come to school.

They gave us number of children physc. hospital program and we called
and are to take Maria in immeidately for "assessment of services" and
evaluation where I guess they will decide if she is in or out patient .
. . Leif just went to get Maria from school and we will leave in half
hour -

Is anyone here? This is triggering me - I am okay outwardly for Maria,
but scared and spinning. I don't want her in patient away from me but I
DO know that kind of intense intervention may be best . . . I will do
what doctors suggest and you guys suggest (whom I trust)

School said they wanted her back . . . Okay. Just any advice on coping,
or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email me
please.

Rosena

aww . I knew that was coming. . . There might be a day treatment program
for her around which would be better than inpatient imo. I would go with
least restrictive to start with.
.

User: "justpackrat"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 10:38:55 AM

FWIW, and you didn't necessarily ask my opinion, except I am a mom and
a mom of a depressed 20 year old, angry one I might add. I wish to
god that I would have gotten him some treatment when I was able to.
He's on his own now. It's only going to get worse and then she will
be old enough she doesn't have someone to intervene and make her seek
out treatment.
Best wishes and peace to both of you. Sorry you are going through
this, it has to be hell, I understand bits and pieces. My son is
severely depressed and maybe other things as well, just no diagnosis
since I can't get him to see a doc and isn't doing well in life. Get
some strong treatment going now while you have the say so. Just my
VERY humble opinion, as I'm a flunkee when it comes to being mom.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 08:00:53 PM

On 20 Oct 2005 07:04:05 -0700, "Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com>
wrote:

<(((*>Okay. Just any advice on coping,
<(((*> or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
<(((*> doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email me
<(((*> please.

Maria gets inpatient, so SHE's okay.
School wants her back, so THEY're okay.
Now it's up to you and Leif, and the two of you are NOT okay.
If you & Leif don't start working on yourselves, you're screwing
Maria over. She can't do it all herself, and she shouldn't be
expected to.
You and Leif created this toxic stew, so it's up to the two of
you to do your best to filter out the poison.
I say family therapy for the two of you, at the very least,
preferably with individual therapy for each of you on top of
that.
Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada
.

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 10:41:41 PM

<waitingforgodot@samuel.beckett> wrote in message
news:r6fgl1ta4v1m4edtkuaph848on4tcu4qlh@4ax.com...

On 20 Oct 2005 07:04:05 -0700, "Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com>
wrote:

<(((*>Okay. Just any advice on coping,
<(((*> or if any of you have found ways to approach with your turmoil so
<(((*> doesn't affect child in need in negative way let me know or email

<(((*> please.

Maria gets inpatient, so SHE's okay.

School wants her back, so THEY're okay.

Now it's up to you and Leif, and the two of you are NOT okay.

If you & Leif don't start working on yourselves, you're screwing
Maria over. She can't do it all herself, and she shouldn't be
expected to.

You and Leif created this toxic stew, so it's up to the two of
you to do your best to filter out the poison.

I say family therapy for the two of you, at the very least,
preferably with individual therapy for each of you on top of
that.

Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada

Absolutely. You're right. The family therapy is *critical.*
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Tim Kett"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 08:21:17 PM

waitingforgodot@samuel.beckett wrote:

On 20 Oct 2005 07:04:05 -0700, "Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com>
wrote:

Maria gets inpatient, so SHE's okay.

School wants her back, so THEY're okay.

Now it's up to you and Leif, and the two of you are NOT okay.

If you & Leif don't start working on yourselves, you're screwing
Maria over. She can't do it all herself, and she shouldn't be
expected to.

You and Leif created this toxic stew, so it's up to the two of
you to do your best to filter out the poison.

Thats precisely what I tried to point out. WHO HAD ANGER, that scared
Maria??? I feel that is the root of the problem.

I say family therapy for the two of you, at the very least,
preferably with individual therapy for each of you on top of
that.

Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada

User: "lisa in mass."
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	21 Oct 2005 02:27:33 PM

Rosena wrote...

We went to meeting at Maria's shool - they think she is
worse off than even we thought - cutting in bathroom etc. -
depressed etc. They think she needs intense intervention -
perhaps hospital for couple of weeks and sort of insist on
that before she can come to school.

They gave us number of children physc. hospital program and
we called and are to take Maria in immeidately for
"assessment of services" and evaluation where I guess they
will decide if she is in or out patient . . . Leif just
went to get Maria from school and we will leave in half
hour -

Is anyone here? This is triggering me - I am okay
outwardly for Maria, but scared and spinning. I don't want
her in patient away from me but I DO know that kind of
intense intervention may be best . . . I will do what
doctors suggest and you guys suggest (whom I trust)

School said they wanted her back . . . Okay. Just any
advice on coping, or if any of you have found ways to
approach with your turmoil so doesn't affect child in need
in negative way let me know or email me please.

Rosena

sorry i wasn't here for you. if things are that bad for her,
some time in-patient would be a good thing. i know you want
her home with you, but you can't give her the intensive work
she needs right now.
i don't know a good way to deal with it. follow your heart,
and do the best you can. at least know that you're doing the
right thing here. and be glad that her school can see that
it's an illness, not just a behavioral problem. that can make
it much easier on her when she comes home and wants to re-
integrate.
i certainly wish i could be of more help.
-lisa
.

User: "Rosena"
Title: Re: @ Thank you	20 Oct 2005 07:19:47 PM

Thank you all for such thoughtful heartfelt advice which I made Leif
read too. They did not put Maria in hospital and it looks like she
might do a week of out-patient day program for teens and then her
regular therapy. She will also get pdoc evaluation. And a treatment
plan. We have to wait til tomorrow to get things completely rolling
because of paper work.
All your comments really helped and Leif and I talked about each issue
you, Luna, Nina, Packrat, Rhino, Bobbie and Pannah brought up. So you
can feel you had a real impact and helped even across usenet!
Maria is not liking intensive approach but she is so happy she is not
in patient that her ire is low key. The work with regular therapist is
scheduled to be family too and I guess tomorrow we do that. I learned
a lot about cutting from intake person at hospital and Maria seems to
be at more easily treatable stage (some cut very deep and
disassociative thus not knowing they are doing it).
To Nina - I know that when I get afraid plus stressed my mind turns to
John. And you are right. I bury and work to help bury. And I know
you understand. I am not at risk of contacting him for I am beginning
(believe it or not) to "feel" him as part of a past rather than as an
eternal present.
Maria, the PhD program and trying to still publish is a real full load
and I have several medical things to do (perhaps another operation) for
legs. But next week I will try to find my own therapist through Uni
and grapple with stuff
Right now - we got wood for a fire, marshmellows for hot coco, a
hanging small flying good witch in a green glitter cape,(she is very
arty Jean, I thought of you) and a pumpkin so maybe Maria and I can
just "be" for a bit.
I care about you all = again you all helped so much
P.S. Some of you shared experiences and I know that is hard to do. I
really thought about them when I decided to push for out-patient
intensive seeing that as middle course many of you thought was best.
All of you see to be pretty special women so somehow you took what was
flung at you and carved something from seemingly ugly rock. I admire
you all.
Rosena
.

User: "Rhiannon"
Title: Re: @ Thank you	20 Oct 2005 10:35:02 PM

"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129853987.010015.96160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Thank you all for such thoughtful heartfelt advice which I made Leif
read too. They did not put Maria in hospital and it looks like she
might do a week of out-patient day program for teens and then her
regular therapy. She will also get pdoc evaluation. And a treatment
plan. We have to wait til tomorrow to get things completely rolling
because of paper work.

All your comments really helped and Leif and I talked about each issue
you, Luna, Nina, Packrat, Rhino, Bobbie and Pannah brought up. So you
can feel you had a real impact and helped even across usenet!

Maria is not liking intensive approach but she is so happy she is not
in patient that her ire is low key. The work with regular therapist is
scheduled to be family too and I guess tomorrow we do that. I learned
a lot about cutting from intake person at hospital and Maria seems to
be at more easily treatable stage (some cut very deep and
disassociative thus not knowing they are doing it).

To Nina - I know that when I get afraid plus stressed my mind turns to
John. And you are right. I bury and work to help bury. And I know
you understand. I am not at risk of contacting him for I am beginning
(believe it or not) to "feel" him as part of a past rather than as an
eternal present.

Maria, the PhD program and trying to still publish is a real full load
and I have several medical things to do (perhaps another operation) for
legs. But next week I will try to find my own therapist through Uni
and grapple with stuff

Right now - we got wood for a fire, marshmellows for hot coco, a
hanging small flying good witch in a green glitter cape,(she is very
arty Jean, I thought of you) and a pumpkin so maybe Maria and I can
just "be" for a bit.

I care about you all = again you all helped so much

P.S. Some of you shared experiences and I know that is hard to do. I
really thought about them when I decided to push for out-patient
intensive seeing that as middle course many of you thought was best.
All of you see to be pretty special women so somehow you took what was
flung at you and carved something from seemingly ugly rock. I admire
you all.

Rosena

This is really good news Rosena. I think the family counselling is an
excellent decision and one you won't regret. I'm glad you let Leif read
these posts. The more he understands, the more it helps. I am so proud of
you for taking control of the situation and doing what needed to be done.
Especially having done it together. You're good and loving parents. You
are a strong woman Rosena and you have handled this well. Reward yourself.
:) (((((Rosena)))))
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
.

User: "Whiskers"
Title: Re: @ Thank you	21 Oct 2005 08:35:56 AM

On 2005-10-21, Rosena <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
snip

Right now - we got wood for a fire, marshmellows for hot coco, a
hanging small flying good witch in a green glitter cape,(she is very
arty Jean, I thought of you) and a pumpkin so maybe Maria and I can
just "be" for a bit.

snip
Whiskery Hugs {{{{{Rosena Maria Lief}}}}}
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
.

User: ""
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 03:43:21 PM

Wow. Wish I had some wisdom. IAs a mom of a teen, my heart is breaking
for you, I know this is im[possibly hard.
All I can say is, I'm praying for you all, especially that God watches
over Maria every minute.
Bobbie
.

User: "Used2be"
Title: Re: @ Emergency - Jean, Cindiy, Rhino - Mothers @	20 Oct 2005 07:29:29 PM

i answered you in a private email but i just wanted you to know that i am
thinking about you and maria and saying a prayer for you guys.
~u2b
.

Page 1 of 1

Post reply

WATCH ME MAKE RHINO SAY YEAH YEAH TWICE
rhino dung can be made into paper
GOOD THING RHINO SAID JUGS
HI RHINO
POOR RHINO
@ Cal. Alan, Rhino @
@ Jill - Rhino @
HEY RHINO , HOW MANY

Re: Jean Is A *****
Re: Jean Is A *****
Re: Suck ***** Jean.
Re: ***** Jean *****...//////
Re: ***** Jean *****.
Re: ***** Jean *****...///////
Re: Lez ***** Jean..//

NEWER

pg.2749 pg.2106 pg.1612 pg.1232 pg.940 pg.716 pg.544 pg.412 pg.311 pg.234 pg.175 pg.130 pg.96 pg.70 pg.50 pg.35 pg.24 pg.16 pg.10 pg.6 pg.3 pg.1

OLDER