| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Trishamolson" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2004 04:36:23 AM |
| Object: |
@ Kim @ |
Hey -- was trying to respond to your post, but lost it. I was half kidding
when I recommended falling in love -- but half serious too. Right person,
right time, it is the thing that makes life magic. Obviously, it doesn't just
drop in our laps.
In regard to telling anyone to do "do something," the point was exactly that --
we all complain, and some of us get paralyzed for a bit unable to move -- but
no matter how bad it gets, we HAVE to keep trying, make small moves if need be,
think of alternatives, crawl forward on our belly if that is all we can do. You
are a good example of a woman who keeps going no matter what. I get impatient
with the vicitim cry that sees everything -- absolutely everything in life --
in terms of what has been done to him or her and takes zero responsiblity for
making a life.
In my book -- telling someone to "do something" is good advice. I have received
it myself and tell myself the same thing when it starts to get too dark to
move.
love
me
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 07:36:34 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2004 09:36:23 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
->I get impatient
->with the vicitim cry that sees everything -- absolutely everything in life --
->in terms of what has been done to him or her and takes zero responsiblity for
->making a life.
That's easy to say if you are coming from a relatively sheltered
position and have something to work with.
I have no respect for you, Rosena. You aren't a strong woman, you are
a poseur. The minute things get a little tough, you escape into your
overly romantic fantasy life and dream of some hero-figure man to save
you. Or you run here to ASD with your helpless little-girl act. Yet
you seem to find it easy to aim your righteous indignation at me.
Why? Afraid of what life would be like if you had to stand on your
own and give up your adolescent fantasies? Afraid you might end up
like me? Does it make you feel superior to scream at me? Are you
screaming at me, or what you see in yourself?
I am fed up with being called a "victim". Given my history, still
being alive proves I am not a victim. I've fought to survive since
Day One. Guess I'm getting older, tired and discouraged. But that
dosen't matter.
Guess it never occurred to anyone that I ended up the way I am through
a lifetime lack of caring and kindness. Oh, wait. I'm strong, I'm
smart, I don't need any help. I'm tough, I can take people beating up
on me all the time.
Tell _yourself_ that the next time depression is at its worst and
there's not a soul in the world to give a damn if you live or die. Be
stuck living surrounded by a bunch of people who don't want to do a
damn thing with their lives and want to latch onto you for whatever
they can get. Have nowhere to turn for hope, help or reassurance.
Have little hope of escape because your lifelong illness has thwarted
every effort at improvement. Do it for several years. Then listen to
people scream at you "get up and do something!".
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 07:45:05 AM |
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"notchimera" <disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote in message
news:vfdi70hliand976jrd6mjriqhf4375kgbo@4ax.com...
On 11 Apr 2004 09:36:23 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
->I get impatient
->with the vicitim cry that sees everything -- absolutely everything
in life --
->in terms of what has been done to him or her and takes zero
responsiblity for
->making a life.
That's easy to say if you are coming from a relatively sheltered
position and have something to work with.
I have no respect for you, Rosena. <snip>
She actually does something - she works at her life. You just sit there
doing nothing but complaining, major poundage of complaining. Years and
years of it. It's pretty sickening, really. You always have some sort
of reason why someone else makes it and you don't. Check into a mirror
for yourself one of these days. Cheap at Home Depot.
Jean
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 07:55:45 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:45:05 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
->> That's easy to say if you are coming from a relatively sheltered
->> position and have something to work with.
->>
->> I have no respect for you, Rosena. <snip>
->
->She actually does something - she works at her life. You just sit there
->doing nothing but complaining, major poundage of complaining. Years and
->years of it. It's pretty sickening, really. You always have some sort
->of reason why someone else makes it and you don't. Check into a mirror
->for yourself one of these days. Cheap at Home Depot.
I have to have two surgeries. Can I come stay with you for the
recovery period? No? Guess the doctors will keep turning me down,
then.
If I go to work and lose the entitlements I live on, and the lifelong
pattern of breakdown occurs, and I have no savings, can I come stay
with you until I find another place to live? No? Guess I'll do what I
have to do to stay off the street, then.
Do you have to put up with childish drooling and sexual harassment
every time you walk out of your front door? No? Guess I'll keep
meditating and taking Ativan on bad days to avoid kicking some smarmy
Mama's Boy's *****.
Have you had therapists tell you that your main problem is "you need
to soften up, go out and serve other people", yet go silent when you
say your main concern is getting yourself out of poverty? "Softening
up" isn't getting me out of the pits of the underclass. Neither will
wasting what little energy I have left on hours of altruism.
How many nights do you spend wishing there were someone, anyone you
could call or visit with just for a couple of hours of pleasant
distraction and reassurance? Not whining, not "save me" *****, not
"I'm utterly and totally complete within myself" crap, just someone to
care if you fucking wake up tomorrow? No? Then try it and get back
to me.
Have you forgotten how to use a killfile, Jean? If you don't like me,
why do you keep reading my posts? Or is it more fun to play
self-righteous Know-It-All Alpha Mama and knock me into the ground?
I'm sick of you, too.
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:11:48 AM |
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"notchimera" <disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote in message
news:6afi70lsbq1ngiv2ke8ir7jek9i8i7ab5l@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:45:05 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
->> That's easy to say if you are coming from a relatively sheltered
->> position and have something to work with.
->>
->> I have no respect for you, Rosena. <snip>
->
->She actually does something - she works at her life. You just sit
there
->doing nothing but complaining, major poundage of complaining. Years
and
->years of it. It's pretty sickening, really. You always have some
sort
->of reason why someone else makes it and you don't. Check into a
mirror
->for yourself one of these days. Cheap at Home Depot.
I have to have two surgeries. Can I come stay with you for the
recovery period? No? Guess the doctors will keep turning me down,
then.
Get in touch with a local church and explain your dilemma - oops.
That'd mean DOING something.
I know someone here in my hometown who did exactly this as a matter of
fact - oh, and his surgeries meant that that he would be blind for the
recovery period.
If I go to work and lose the entitlements I live on, and the lifelong
pattern of breakdown occurs, and I have no savings, can I come stay
with you until I find another place to live? No? Guess I'll do what I
have to do to stay off the street, then.
Do what? Absolutely nothing? Even if you did *something*, unpaid, it
would be better. Christ I could shake you - don't you understand that
you will NEVER feel good about yourself so long as you contribute
absolutely nothing to the world surrounding you? You're always yakking
about how you have nothing left to give and you never understand that
giving doesn't have to deplete you, it can actually fill you up, give
your life a purpose and a meaning.
Do you have to put up with childish drooling and sexual harassment
every time you walk out of your front door? No? Guess I'll keep
meditating and taking Ativan on bad days to avoid kicking some smarmy
Mama's Boy's *****.
heh, no but my daughter does and somehow she's surviving. We were all
teenagers once Claudia - we all went through it. Ignore them, they're
assholes.
Have you had therapists tell you that your main problem is "you need
to soften up, go out and serve other people", yet go silent when you
say your main concern is getting yourself out of poverty? "Softening
up" isn't getting me out of the pits of the underclass. Neither will
wasting what little energy I have left on hours of altruism.
How's a life of sitting in your stupid apartment working for you? Maybe
you should take your therapists advice, maybe they know what they're
talking about.
How many nights do you spend wishing there were someone, anyone you
could call or visit with just for a couple of hours of pleasant
distraction and reassurance? Not whining, not "save me" *****, not
"I'm utterly and totally complete within myself" crap, just someone to
care if you fucking wake up tomorrow? No? Then try it and get back
to me.
I'm alone a lot but luckily I don't have much loneliness. I think it
has a lot to do with having a reason to get up in the morning.
Have you forgotten how to use a killfile, Jean? If you don't like me,
why do you keep reading my posts? Or is it more fun to play
self-righteous Know-It-All Alpha Mama and knock me into the ground?
I'm sick of you, too.
You seek to knock down Rosena, someone who's got at least as much on her
plate as you do, and that pissed me off. You could look to her for
inspiration but no, you belittle her and that does suck.
Jean
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| User: "Trishamolson" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:34:19 AM |
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Dear Jean,
That is so funny!! We thought of exactly the same solution. I think going to a
priest or pastor who could find help for recovery is a really workable idea . .
..wish she'd do it.
Well, I am out of this conversation. I just had to speak up, it was bothering
me.
It was just so lovely of you to speak up for me. It is always nice to get a
nod from a friend. I still have this idea of some kind of Canada meet for
Tara, you, Kim and I (and maybe Marybeth who is in New York too I think.
best
.
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:37:13 AM |
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"Trishamolson" <trishamolson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040411093419.08170.00000175@mb-m11.aol.com...
Dear Jean,
That is so funny!! We thought of exactly the same solution. I think
going to a
priest or pastor who could find help for recovery is a really workable
idea . .
.wish she'd do it.
She won't.
Well, I am out of this conversation. I just had to speak up, it was
bothering
me.
It was just so lovely of you to speak up for me. It is always nice to
get a
nod from a friend. I still have this idea of some kind of Canada meet
for
Tara, you, Kim and I (and maybe Marybeth who is in New York too I
think.
I've already met Kim - we used to live in the same city and then she
left. I currently have a couple of boxes of her books in my storage
room. :-)
It's just stupid that I haven't met Tara, we live two hours apart and
she's one of my fave women here. One day.
Jean
best
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:51:19 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:37:13 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
->> That is so funny!! We thought of exactly the same solution. I think
->going to a
->> priest or pastor who could find help for recovery is a really workable
->idea . .
->> .wish she'd do it.
->
->She won't.
I have a reason for avoiding churches. I've explained it. I have
trouble to this day walking by churches, into church buildings to
attend AA meetings or any benign activity.
There's more to the farm story. Back in the city, my therapist, an
ordained minister and licensed social worker, was part of the plot I
mentioned. I saw him for months, did some actual healing work, not
realizing I was being manipulated. He later confessed, with great
shame, he was under orders to manipulate me by his church superiors.
I would never turn to a religious figure for anything again. I find
spiritual fulfillment in Nature now. At least they didn't crush my
relationship with the Divine. It took years to separate spirituality
from that lousy experience.
So. Before you sling your arrows, consider there may be a bigger
picture.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 09:59:31 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2004 13:34:19 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
<(((*> I still have this idea of some kind of Canada meet for
<(((*> Tara, you, Kim and I (and maybe Marybeth who is in New York too I think.
There are several other asders in upstate NY, including K9 who
met me at the bus station during my all-too-brief stopover in
Albany when I went down to NYC in 2002.
K9, I hope you're lurking, sweetie, and that if we get this meet
off the ground, we'll have the pleasure of your company.
Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:22:15 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:11:48 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
->> I have to have two surgeries. Can I come stay with you for the
->> recovery period? No? Guess the doctors will keep turning me down,
->> then.
->
->Get in touch with a local church and explain your dilemma - oops.
->That'd mean DOING something.
Easy for you to say. You didn't spend six months of your life trapped
in the middle of fucking nowhere with a bunch of "church" people who
wanted to turn you into obedient free farm labor and a fucking
Stepford Wife to some guy in the congregation. Oh, wait, you're
already married? Minor inconvenience.
->I know someone here in my hometown who did exactly this as a matter of
->fact - oh, and his surgeries meant that that he would be blind for the
->recovery period.
Good for him.
->Do what? Absolutely nothing? Even if you did *something*, unpaid, it
->would be better. Christ I could shake you - don't you understand that
->you will NEVER feel good about yourself so long as you contribute
->absolutely nothing to the world surrounding you? You're always yakking
->about how you have nothing left to give and you never understand that
->giving doesn't have to deplete you, it can actually fill you up, give
->your life a purpose and a meaning.
It dosen't pay my fucking bills, Jean. When I can pay my bills and
have a decent place to live, then I can give to someone else.
->> Do you have to put up with childish drooling and sexual harassment
->> every time you walk out of your front door? No? Guess I'll keep
->> meditating and taking Ativan on bad days to avoid kicking some smarmy
->> Mama's Boy's *****.
->
->heh, no but my daughter does and somehow she's surviving. We were all
->teenagers once Claudia - we all went through it. Ignore them, they're
->assholes.
I'm fucking 42 years old and I'm fucking sick of it. Excuse me for
being tired of being treated like a piece of meat since I grew
breasts.
Enroll your daughter in self-defense classes. She'll be able to stand
up for herself and you can obsess less.
->> Have you had therapists tell you that your main problem is "you need
->> to soften up, go out and serve other people", yet go silent when you
->> say your main concern is getting yourself out of poverty? "Softening
->> up" isn't getting me out of the pits of the underclass. Neither will
->> wasting what little energy I have left on hours of altruism.
->
->How's a life of sitting in your stupid apartment working for you? Maybe
->you should take your therapists advice, maybe they know what they're
->talking about.
If I'm going to "not sit in my stupid apartment", it's not to be going
out to wipe someone's ***** and not get paid for it.
->> How many nights do you spend wishing there were someone, anyone you
->> could call or visit with just for a couple of hours of pleasant
->> distraction and reassurance? Not whining, not "save me" *****, not
->> "I'm utterly and totally complete within myself" crap, just someone to
->> care if you fucking wake up tomorrow? No? Then try it and get back
->> to me.
->
->I'm alone a lot but luckily I don't have much loneliness. I think it
->has a lot to do with having a reason to get up in the morning.
Yeah, guess that's a big difference.
->> Have you forgotten how to use a killfile, Jean? If you don't like me,
->> why do you keep reading my posts? Or is it more fun to play
->> self-righteous Know-It-All Alpha Mama and knock me into the ground?
->> I'm sick of you, too.
->
->You seek to knock down Rosena, someone who's got at least as much on her
->plate as you do, and that pissed me off. You could look to her for
->inspiration but no, you belittle her and that does suck.
Rosena has spoken and is quite capable of defending herself. She
dosen't need your help.
Get off your fucking high horse. I don't want you as my Alpha Mama.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:51:21 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:22:15 GMT,
notchimera<disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote:
I don't want you as my Alpha Mama.
Ha. I love this phrase. Jean, you can be my Alpha Mama any time you
like.
Actually, I'd give quite a lot for someone who was willing to listen
to me complain and then give me sound practical advice about what I
need to do. (Yes, Michael does that, but he's a little too involved
with the whole thing.) It's been a long time since I've had either a
mother or a good friend who was really a part of my life.
Nina
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 10:18:31 AM |
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"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:94ji7090i4rc86uvcsjfsjkirqjkbknlnq@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:22:15 GMT,
notchimera<disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote:
I don't want you as my Alpha Mama.
Ha. I love this phrase. Jean, you can be my Alpha Mama any time you
like.
I'll make you soup Nina. I'd better run out and buy you some chocolate
too!
Actually, I'd give quite a lot for someone who was willing to listen
to me complain and then give me sound practical advice about what I
need to do. (Yes, Michael does that, but he's a little too involved
with the whole thing.) It's been a long time since I've had either a
mother or a good friend who was really a part of my life.
My mom is the advice giving queen, maybe that's where I get it. :-) It
can get really annoying - but one thing it does is juxtapose solutions
onto most of my problem type trains of thought. Not that I always
follow my own advice (or hers), of course. Just like people tend to
ignore mine most of the time. :-)
Jean
Nina
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 12:42:35 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:18:31 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:94ji7090i4rc86uvcsjfsjkirqjkbknlnq@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:22:15 GMT,
notchimera<disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote:
I don't want you as my Alpha Mama.
Ha. I love this phrase. Jean, you can be my Alpha Mama any time you
like.
I'll make you soup Nina. I'd better run out and buy you some chocolate
too!
Dark, please. :-) My son only likes white chocolate, so that's what
the Easter Bunny brought us, and I hate the nasty stuff. Even the
overpriced high-quality Swiss stuff that I brought him from Chicago.
Actually, I'd give quite a lot for someone who was willing to listen
to me complain and then give me sound practical advice about what I
need to do. (Yes, Michael does that, but he's a little too involved
with the whole thing.) It's been a long time since I've had either a
mother or a good friend who was really a part of my life.
My mom is the advice giving queen, maybe that's where I get it. :-) It
can get really annoying - but one thing it does is juxtapose solutions
onto most of my problem type trains of thought. Not that I always
follow my own advice (or hers), of course. Just like people tend to
ignore mine most of the time. :-)
Well, advice (as well as many other things) is a funny thing, and it
depends a lot on where your head is at. I mean, I can think of so
many things here in which people give concrete and well-reasoned
advice, and the person simply can't hear it for what it is, because of
where they are at the moment. <no, I am NOT talking about anyone in
specific here> I can think of a billion examples of myself in the
same situation, things that I should have listened to, but I wasn't
ready then.
The trouble with my mother (one of the problems with my mother,
anyway) is that you can't just air a problem. She has to solve it for
you, and she won't listen to the reasons why the solution won't work
for you. And, well, I can see it both ways... I can see cases in
which she was right, and I probably should have listened, but I can
also see cases where she was really wrong. But in either case, a
discussion would have been a LOT more valuable than a pre-packaged
solution.
Nina
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:52:38 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:51:21 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
->Actually, I'd give quite a lot for someone who was willing to listen
->to me complain and then give me sound practical advice about what I
->need to do. (Yes, Michael does that, but he's a little too involved
->with the whole thing.) It's been a long time since I've had either a
->mother or a good friend who was really a part of my life.
Everyone is different. If you desire a mother figure, that's fine. I
do not.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 10:14:20 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:52:38 GMT,
notchimera<disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:51:21 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
->Actually, I'd give quite a lot for someone who was willing to listen
->to me complain and then give me sound practical advice about what I
->need to do. (Yes, Michael does that, but he's a little too involved
->with the whole thing.) It's been a long time since I've had either a
->mother or a good friend who was really a part of my life.
Everyone is different. If you desire a mother figure, that's fine. I
do not.
Your choice. I don't want a mother, either. But I certainly miss the
presence of caring women in my life. To me, it's a very great loss.
Nina
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 10:19:12 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:14:20 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
->Your choice. I don't want a mother, either. But I certainly miss the
->presence of caring women in my life. To me, it's a very great loss.
I'm sorry for the lack in your life. I understand.
I would love equal, close female friends like you describe. I've had
them in the past, life is definitely emptier without them.
Being mothered makes me uncomfortable. Demanding mother figures bring
up an ugly response in me. Different personalities, different
idiosyncracies.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 10:36:22 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:19:12 GMT,
notchimera<disabilitybum@poverty.com> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:14:20 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
->Your choice. I don't want a mother, either. But I certainly miss the
->presence of caring women in my life. To me, it's a very great loss.
I'm sorry for the lack in your life. I understand.
I would love equal, close female friends like you describe. I've had
them in the past, life is definitely emptier without them.
Being mothered makes me uncomfortable. Demanding mother figures bring
up an ugly response in me. Different personalities, different
idiosyncracies.
I guess that what I think of in a mother is different. Not because
this is the kind of mother that I *have*, I might add, but because
it's the kind of mother that I wish that I had had. Compassionate,
accepting, and loving, but able also to say what is true to me without
evasion and sugarcoating and lies.
Demanding is something else. Demanding and manipulative, which is
pretty much what I do have... although she's toned down a lot, and
she's not much in my life... is a completely different league.
Nina
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| User: "Trishamolson" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:12:07 AM |
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Okay,
one at a time:
I have to have two surgeries. Can I come stay with you for the>recovery
period? No? Guess the doctors will keep turning me down, >then.
Then you lie, say you have help, and spend recovery alone. Or you find a
doctor who will do it. Or you go to a local church and explain the problem and
get help from someone in the congregation (this would work).
If I go to work and lose the entitlements I live on, and the lifelong>pattern
of breakdown occurs, and I have no savings, can I come stay >with you until I
find another place to live? No? Guess I'll do what I >have to do to stay off
the street, then.
You hate being poor. You scream about it endlessly. So, you must make money not
to be poor. (or shut up about it). You find a job and work and run the risk.
All living is a risk. You take risks! You are being a coward. That is hard to
watch. And you see doctor more often, as you work, to moniter your mental
health.
Do you have to put up with childish drooling and sexual harassment
every time you walk out of your front door? No?
Are you kidding? Jean is a beautiful woman, you think she never fends off
drooling men? Because men want to pick up on you, you cry? This is immature
and just silly. (plus you seem to have an aversion to liking people for who
they are irrespective from what you can get from them)
Have you had therapists tell you that your main problem is "you need>to soften
up, go out and serve other people", yet go silent when you >say your main
concern is getting yourself out of poverty?
What do you do to get out of poverty? Why can't you be a kind woman at the same
time?
How many nights do you spend wishing there were someone, anyone you
could call or visit with just for a couple of hours of pleasant>distraction
and reassurance? Not whining, not "save me" *****, not >"I'm utterly and
totally complete within myself" crap, just someone to >care if you fucking
wake up tomorrow? No?
Again are you kidding??? Don't you realize that probably Jean and most women
here have been in exactly this place? What do you know about any ASDer?? Yes,
you are alone -- but unloving people do not entice love. It is easy to strike
up a conversation with a woman friend -- email people here on ASD, go to a
regular coffee house etc. You want something more than a friend.
I don't dislike you and I doubt Jean dislikes you. But you simply have to stop
being a coward and take risks, such as a job, or talking to someone etc. and
stop complaining about needy people when all you do is scream about your own
needs.
Rosena
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:25:11 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2004 13:12:07 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
->>I have to have two surgeries. Can I come stay with you for the>recovery
->period? No? Guess the doctors will keep turning me down, >then.
->
->Then you lie, say you have help, and spend recovery alone. Or you find a
->doctor who will do it. Or you go to a local church and explain the problem and
->get help from someone in the congregation (this would work).
See my response to Jean.
->You hate being poor. You scream about it endlessly. So, you must make money not
->to be poor. (or shut up about it). You find a job and work and run the risk.
->All living is a risk. You take risks! You are being a coward. That is hard to
->watch. And you see doctor more often, as you work, to moniter your mental
->health.
I do see the doctor often.
I don't want to be fucking homeless. Surely you understand that!
->>Do you have to put up with childish drooling and sexual harassment
->>every time you walk out of your front door? No?
->
->Are you kidding? Jean is a beautiful woman, you think she never fends off
->drooling men? Because men want to pick up on you, you cry? This is immature
->and just silly. (plus you seem to have an aversion to liking people for who
->they are irrespective from what you can get from them)
I'm fucking sick of it. I'm not a ***** piece of meat! Hooray for
women who like male attention. I don't.
->>Have you had therapists tell you that your main problem is "you need>to soften
->up, go out and serve other people", yet go silent when you >say your main
->concern is getting yourself out of poverty?
->
->What do you do to get out of poverty? Why can't you be a kind woman at the same
->time?
Being a "kind woman" got me where I am today. ***** that.
->>How many nights do you spend wishing there were someone, anyone you
->>could call or visit with just for a couple of hours of pleasant>distraction
->and reassurance? Not whining, not "save me" *****, not >"I'm utterly and
->totally complete within myself" crap, just someone to >care if you fucking
->wake up tomorrow? No?
->
->Again are you kidding??? Don't you realize that probably Jean and most women
->here have been in exactly this place? What do you know about any ASDer?? Yes,
->you are alone -- but unloving people do not entice love. It is easy to strike
->up a conversation with a woman friend -- email people here on ASD, go to a
->regular coffee house etc. You want something more than a friend.
But I'm mean and cruel and poor and crazy. Wah wah wah.
->I don't dislike you and I doubt Jean dislikes you. But you simply have to stop
->being a coward and take risks, such as a job, or talking to someone etc. and
->stop complaining about needy people when all you do is scream about your own
->needs.
I'll remember that next time you start on one of your rescue
fantasies.
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| User: "Trishamolson" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 07:54:08 AM |
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I do not mean this harshly - and I will not engage in a drawn out discussion.
It is painful to watch your constant complaints and endless explanations for
why you cannot do anything to change your life. You sound -- from your posts
-- like a very selfish woman who resents the idea of ever loving, caring, or
being kind to another. You sound, often, as if *you* are seeking a sugar daddy
to care for you.
You do not seem to get that one gets filled up, and finds joy, by giving to
others -- old women on the street, children in the park, friends on ASD and so
forth. You appear instead to be tight-hearted. It is very very sad to watch.
You know nothing about me. I spent years on the streets since 11 years old. I
know homelessness and living without food or shoes very well. Don't lecture me.
It is precisely those years that taught me one must fight to create beauty and
not lay down whinning. I have been you . . .and perhaps worse. You fight or
give up: you appear to give up.
I "scream" at you because it is sad to see you try nothing -- it appears --
nothing to make life a tiny bit better. It hurts to see someone turn giving and
charity of heart into some cruel human game of takers and abusers.
As far as my romantic oulook, I plead guilty. I believe strongly in the beauty,
romance, delight, wonder, miraculous, unfathomable, insanity of this precious
gift we are given to know how to love and to be loved. And I believe too one
needs to live life as it should be, not as it is. Only then do we transfigure
the ugly into something fine and beautous.
But I doubt you hear a word I am saying for I fear your anger, resentfulness,
lack of charity, and insistence that somehow you have it rougher than anyone
else here on ASD will not help you to find what you so desperately seek --
companionship and a kindred spirit.
I wish you luck. But no, I do not respect those who lay down and moan about
what life is doing to them without ever trying to act to make life a bit
better.
Rosena
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:07:22 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2004 12:54:08 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
->I do not mean this harshly - and I will not engage in a drawn out discussion.
->
->It is painful to watch your constant complaints and endless explanations for
->why you cannot do anything to change your life. You sound -- from your posts
->-- like a very selfish woman who resents the idea of ever loving, caring, or
->being kind to another. You sound, often, as if *you* are seeking a sugar daddy
->to care for you.
A "sugar daddy" is the last thing I want. I actually want to be cared
for by someone as other than a sex toy or servant.
I have never been able to earn an adequate living due to my illness.
Sorry if no one likes that, it's my reality. The last thing I want
or need is to end up as some arrogant man's slave just to keep a roof
over my head. BTDT.
->You do not seem to get that one gets filled up, and finds joy, by giving to
->others -- old women on the street, children in the park, friends on ASD and so
->forth. You appear instead to be tight-hearted. It is very very sad to watch.
Actually, I perform acts of kindness every day. I'm a rarity on my
bike as a female. Little kids see me and wave. I realize they're
getting an important image and always make sure to smile and wave.
There's many more examples of how I assist other people on a daily
basis. I do it because I want to, don't want to turn this into a
worthiness contest.
I have nearly nothing. Yet there's a woman who sits by the local
grocery store soliciting donations for a local charity that feeds
homeless people. Every month, when I get my check, I give her five
dollars. If I had more, I'd give more. I practice kindness away from
the computer every day. I just don't want to wipe anyone's ***** or
suck up to anyone who's going to turn on me for not living up to
_their_ standards for me. Including yours.
->You know nothing about me. I spent years on the streets since 11 years old. I
->know homelessness and living without food or shoes very well. Don't lecture me.
->It is precisely those years that taught me one must fight to create beauty and
->not lay down whinning. I have been you . . .and perhaps worse. You fight or
->give up: you appear to give up.
I am sorry about your past history.
Then you, of all people, ought to know how hard the struggle is.
Especially when you get older and sicker and have less energy to
fight.
->I "scream" at you because it is sad to see you try nothing -- it appears --
->nothing to make life a tiny bit better. It hurts to see someone turn giving and
->charity of heart into some cruel human game of takers and abusers.
You know what it's like to be sick of being abused, degraded and taken
advantage of.
->As far as my romantic oulook, I plead guilty. I believe strongly in the beauty,
->romance, delight, wonder, miraculous, unfathomable, insanity of this precious
->gift we are given to know how to love and to be loved. And I believe too one
->needs to live life as it should be, not as it is. Only then do we transfigure
->the ugly into something fine and beautous.
The artistic vision is nice. Personality difference, I guess. I've
always had to compromise artistic vision (yes, I have one) for
survival issues.
->But I doubt you hear a word I am saying for I fear your anger, resentfulness,
->lack of charity, and insistence that somehow you have it rougher than anyone
->else here on ASD will not help you to find what you so desperately seek --
->companionship and a kindred spirit.
No, I don't expect anyone on ASD to help me find what I need. I come
here to vent frustration like everyone else.
->I wish you luck. But no, I do not respect those who lay down and moan about
->what life is doing to them without ever trying to act to make life a bit
->better.
This is where communicating on the Internet does not show the entire
picture. You don't see what I do every day just to get up and keep
walking. Nor do I see what you must do to accomplish the same.
Stop insulting me and I'll stop insulting you.
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| User: "Trishamolson" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:18:05 AM |
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I did not mean anything I said as an insult. And Claudia it was real nice to
hear the things you do like waving at the children or giving the old lady money
for the homeless shelter and so forth.
I do know how hard it is -- I really really know from first hand experience,
and I know how lonley and hopeless it can all seem. I know you need someone to
put her or his arms around you and tell you that you are important and cared
for, I wish I could do that for you.
All I am saying -- in short -- is don't give in, don't give up, don't yield to
despair. Try little little things to make "it" better. I really do wish you
luck and hope you find happiness.
Rosena
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 08:35:48 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2004 13:18:05 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
->I did not mean anything I said as an insult. And Claudia it was real nice to
->hear the things you do like waving at the children or giving the old lady money
->for the homeless shelter and so forth.
I do give where I can. I'm quite angry right now, but most times I am
grateful. I'm aware of the greater suffering around me and do what I
can to ease it. I try to give away my gratitude. I just don't report
it to ASD. Would sound like bragging or "look how cool I am". I
don't care what people think. I care about doing what is right and
just in my spirit. If that means defending myself on occasion, I will
do that as well.
->I do know how hard it is -- I really really know from first hand experience,
->and I know how lonley and hopeless it can all seem. I know you need someone to
->put her or his arms around you and tell you that you are important and cared
->for, I wish I could do that for you.
I wish I could do that for myself. Love starts inside. If love is
inside, it radiates and attracts like souls. It's hard to do when
every day is a struggle. You know what I am saying, surely.
->All I am saying -- in short -- is don't give in, don't give up, don't yield to
->despair. Try little little things to make "it" better. I really do wish you
->luck and hope you find happiness.
I do, Rosena, every single day. I look for beauty, and hope, and the
wonderful things in the world. I don't speak much of that here,
either. Perhaps if I did, people on ASD like yourself would have a
broader picture of who I am. Or, perhaps, some people on ASD would
try to lean on me emotionally the way they used to. I don't have the
energy for it. It's not selfishness, it's survival.
Believe it or not, I'd rather not fight with anyone, including you.
Life is hard enough without making things harder for one another.
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| User: "TwelveAngryBadgers" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 05:29:23 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 11 Apr 2004 09:36:23 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
Hey -- was trying to respond to your post, but lost it. I was half kidding
when I recommended falling in love -- but half serious too. Right person,
right time, it is the thing that makes life magic. Obviously, it doesn't just
drop in our laps.
Nor is it always magic even if it does.
In regard to telling anyone to do "do something," the point was exactly that --
we all complain, and some of us get paralyzed for a bit unable to move -- but
no matter how bad it gets, we HAVE to keep trying, make small moves if need be,
think of alternatives, crawl forward on our belly if that is all we can do.
I agree with you here!
You are a good example of a woman who keeps going no matter what.
*Energizer bunny* boom boom boom*
i only keep going because it's more difficult to hit a moving target.
I get impatient with the vicitim cry that sees everything -- absolutely everything in life --
in terms of what has been done to him or her and takes zero responsiblity for
making a life.
Imagine the frustration shrinks must feel. i bet while we're rehashing
the same old problems in their office, they're silently planning their
next vacation.
But i think i know what you mean, because we're not shrinks, we're
unpaid peers, and therefore we care MORE than the shrinks do when
people here are in an endless loop. It's ironic that people attack in
here (and on the other side) because they care too much about the
person and want to give them a 'wake up call', or something. i guess
it could be akin to a RL intervention?
Then again sometimes it's just people being mean for the sake of it.
Never seen that from you though. I know your heart is in the right
place.
In my book -- telling someone to "do something" is good advice. I have received
it myself and tell myself the same thing when it starts to get too dark to
move.
love
me
'Do something' is good advice, we're agreed on that. Specifically
telling someone to fall in love, or to find love, in order to get rid
of their depression, is not only misinformation, it's kind of cruel.
BTW, Happy Easter and i had a feeling i'd be seeing my name in headers
after i hit 'send' on that reply. ;)
Tell Maria Happy Easter from me too. Did you buy her any chocolate
bunnies, or an Easter basket? Edwina's (hehehe) Easter goodies are
stashed in my closet, and she hasn't found them yet! (unlike her
Christmas presents).
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| User: "Trishamolson" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 05:55:05 AM |
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Hey -- why are you up so early??
Nor is it always magic even if it does.
We both know this, eh?
In regard to telling anyone to do "do something," the point was exactly that
-->>we all complain, and some of us get paralyzed for a bit unable to move --
but>>no matter how bad it gets, we HAVE to keep trying, make small moves if
need >be, >>think of alternatives, crawl forward on our belly if that is all we
can do.
I agree with you here!
I know you do for you are one of my examples to follow to life :)
You are a good example of a woman who keeps going no matter what.
*Energizer bunny* boom boom boom*
He he -- I relate to that silly comercial
i only keep going because it's more difficult to hit a moving target.
I get impatient with the vicitim cry that sees everything -- absolutely
everything in life --
in terms of what has been done to him or her and takes zero responsiblity
for>>making a life.
Imagine the frustration shrinks must feel. i bet while we're rehashing
the same old problems in their office, they're silently planning their
next vacation.
I know _ I am embarrased in therapy for I always sit there thinking "this
doctor has got to think I am pathetic!" Aside from money, one reason I don't
go anymore.
But i think i know what you mean, because we're not shrinks, we're
unpaid peers, and therefore we care MORE than the shrinks do when
people here are in an endless loop. It's ironic that people attack in
here (and on the other side) because they care too much about the
person and want to give them a 'wake up call', or something. i guess
it could be akin to a RL intervention?
Yes. I know the frustration others feel with me at times is born of concern. I
guess I get frustrated too with others.
Then again sometimes it's just people being mean for the sake of it.
Never seen that from you though. I know your heart is in the right
place.
Thanks sweetie. Wish you were here and I'd give you a nice breakfast and an
easter egg.
'Do something' is good advice, we're agreed on that. Specifically
telling someone to fall in love, or to find love, in order to get rid
of their depression, is not only misinformation, it's kind of cruel.
You are right (as usual). Should have thought of that.
BTW, Happy Easter and i had a feeling i'd be seeing my name in headers
after i hit 'send' on that reply. ;)
i knew, you knew.
Tell Maria Happy Easter from me too. Did you buy her any chocolate
bunnies, or an Easter basket?
Yep -- The Easter Bunny left her goodies! She is getting to old to believe
anymore, its sad.
Edwina's (hehehe) Easter goodies are
stashed in my closet, and she hasn't found them yet! (unlike her
Christmas presents).
Hope you have a wonderful day. Are you two alone or guests? Are you cooking?
Where are you? I am confused, Canada or U.S.?
love
me
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| User: "TwelveAngryBadgers" |
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| Title: Re: @ Kim @ |
11 Apr 2004 06:21:57 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 11 Apr 2004 10:55:05 GMT, (Trishamolson)
wrote:
Hey -- why are you up so early??
I'm not, i'm up late. ;)
Nor is it always magic even if it does.
We both know this, eh?
Well ya! And look at all the other examples of relationships in
trouble, they're everywhere.
I know _ I am embarrased in therapy for I always sit there thinking "this
doctor has got to think I am pathetic!" Aside from money, one reason I don't
go anymore.
Oh i wasn't recommending that people stop seeing their shrinks, no no
no! Sometimes when the shrinks awake from their reveries, they can
have valuable input. The one i was seeing in California was really
good, helped me a lot. But i do recall that i kept apologizing for
repeating myself.
Yep -- The Easter Bunny left her goodies! She is getting to old to believe
anymore, its sad.
Edwina caught me scribbling the Letter from Santa on Christmas Eve,
and placing it under the tree. Busted! She no longer believes in him
nor the Easter bunny.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
Thank you, i hope you and Maria have a nice Easter as well.
Are you two alone or guests? Are you cooking?
Where are you? I am confused, Canada or U.S.?
love
me
We'll be alone for Easter, no duck after all (i know - boohoohoo, just
like Christmas, our family tradition for the past few years now has
been to see a great movie matinee on Christmas Day - last year was
"Return of the King"). We actually have a blast together on these
holidays, Edwina is still and always the kewlest person i've ever been
around. We probably have a better time just hanging out and doing what
we want than those unfortunate family members who are obligated to
show up and be civil around each other on holidays. Yech!
As for where i am ... well umm.. let's just say that this year, the
Easter Bunny arrived in a most unusual form. ;)
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