| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"David Probett" |
| Date: |
17 Dec 2003 08:19:23 AM |
| Object: |
Advice needed urgently: Dothiepin |
Hi
My doctor this morning decided to wean me off Cipramil 10mg/day and on
to Dothiepin (25mg/day).
Can anyone advise me as to whether this is a good idea?
I have been on Cipramil 10mg for 3 years and, whilst I don't like the
SSRI much it has kept me stable.
I have been unable to come off it for any length of time. Equally,
taking more than 10mg/day gives me the shakes.
I have recently experienced a bad viral infection (probably 'flu and
there have been some ongoing longish-term side-effects.
In addition, during the last year, I have been involved in 13 deaths
amoung the family and close friends (including 1 suicide.
In all I have had to attend seven of the funerals - some at distances
of more than 300 miles from my home.
Also, it has been incredibly stressful at work with considerable
re-arrangement of workload, duties, vat amounts of new work being
taken on with minimal increase in staffing levels.
I thought that the recent viral infection had triggered a 'delayed
shock' effect and stress.
The GP has had various blood and urine tests done but all came back as
'normal' In addition an ECG was performed which was said to be OK.
From my quick reading I cannot understand how even a low dose of
Dothiepin, in preference to Cipramil will improve matters.
1. Will I still be able to drive?
2. Will the former mood swings return.
3. There is a contra-indication about painkillers, particularly
Codeine. Is it safe?
4. There is a warning about difficulties in coming off the drug
and withdrawal problems.
I have now been signed off Sick for a month with "Stress" - no
surprise there.
I am scared of what might be about to happen to me if I take the
Dothiepin and whether I can expect any improvement.
Has anyone any experience of this drug, or of making the witch to it
from an SSRI?
Advise appreciated
David
David Probett
davidprobett@pobox.com
ICQ 10558763
Microsoft .NET passportholder
.
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| User: "Doug Laidlaw" |
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| Title: Re: Advice needed urgently: Dothiepin |
17 Dec 2003 06:23:16 PM |
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David Probett wrote:
Hi
My doctor this morning decided to wean me off Cipramil 10mg/day and on
to Dothiepin (25mg/day).
Can anyone advise me as to whether this is a good idea?
I have been on Cipramil 10mg for 3 years and, whilst I don't like the
SSRI much it has kept me stable.
I have been unable to come off it for any length of time. Equally,
taking more than 10mg/day gives me the shakes.
I have recently experienced a bad viral infection (probably 'flu and
there have been some ongoing longish-term side-effects.
In addition, during the last year, I have been involved in 13 deaths
amoung the family and close friends (including 1 suicide.
In all I have had to attend seven of the funerals - some at distances
of more than 300 miles from my home.
Also, it has been incredibly stressful at work with considerable
re-arrangement of workload, duties, vat amounts of new work being
taken on with minimal increase in staffing levels.
I thought that the recent viral infection had triggered a 'delayed
shock' effect and stress.
The GP has had various blood and urine tests done but all came back as
'normal' In addition an ECG was performed which was said to be OK.
From my quick reading I cannot understand how even a low dose of
Dothiepin, in preference to Cipramil will improve matters.
1. Will I still be able to drive?
2. Will the former mood swings return.
3. There is a contra-indication about painkillers, particularly
Codeine. Is it safe?
4. There is a warning about difficulties in coming off the drug
and withdrawal problems.
I have now been signed off Sick for a month with "Stress" - no
surprise there.
I am scared of what might be about to happen to me if I take the
Dothiepin and whether I can expect any improvement.
Has anyone any experience of this drug, or of making the witch to it
from an SSRI?
Advise appreciated
David
David Probett
davidprobett@pobox.com
ICQ 10558763
Microsoft .NET passportholder
I would not interfere with your doctor's advice under any circumstances.
Antidepressants are very much a personal thing, and what is right for me
may not necessarily be right for you. In this regard, I can only repeat
Alexia's comment: "that's something that you'll only know by trying it, I'm
afraid."
It would seem that Dothiepin is another SSRI, although it is listed as a
tricyclic. To quote from a Web site: "Dothiepin works by preventing this
re-absorption of noradrenaline and serotonin back into the nerve cells.
Therefore, it helps prolong the mood-lightening effect of any released
noradrenaline and serotonin. This helps relieve depression." My wife, who
is an Australian pharmacist, is not around to ask, but "tricyclic" refers
to its chemical structure. Its ACTION seems to be similar to an SSRI.
Cipramil (Celexa) is now a fairly old drug. You should not deny yourself
more recent medical advances. I found Cipramil VERY sedating. I did not
really start to improve until I got off it and onto a newer SSRI. (I am
not going to tell you which one, for the reasons I have given.)
The interaction with codeine should not worry you. (Here in Oz, a drug
conflict is an interaction. A contra-indication is some physical condition
you might have which makes this drug inapproporiate.) There are other
pain-killers around. Codeine is contained only in the stronger ones.
Acetaminophen is the common one here. Many interactions and
contraindications listed are only rarely a problem. Discuss these
questions with your doctor. Many drugs in regular daily use interact with
others. I have one that interacts with grapefruit. The Pill can be made
ineffective by antibiotics, girls. That is why it is important to stick
with the same doctor and pharmacist, who have the whole picture. If half
your medication is at one pharmacy, and the rest at another, a conflict
might not be picked up. I have no experience of online pharmacies, but it
would be impossible for them to know you as well as one you visit.
Your hardest time will probably be during the "washout" period, before you
get the Dothiepin up to full strength. Keep in touch with your doctor and
any other support you have during this time. And don't be afraid to post
here.
Doug.
--
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| User: "David Probett" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice needed urgently: Cipramil (10mg) switchover to Dothiepin (25mg) - based in the UK |
01 Feb 2004 01:50:00 PM |
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Hi
About 8 weeks ago I sought the help of NG members, most of whom were
very helpful and supportive.
I am having real problems with either or both medications.
1. How long is the 'washout' period from Cipramil supposed to
last?
I stopped taking it 'suddenly' (at my doctor's suggestion) on 17-Dec
2. I immediately started on the Dothiepin.
I realise that most would consider these to be very small dosages, but
I appear to be susceptible to them.
Things have not been good and appear to be getting worse.
The Dothiepin appears to cause severe 'hangover' effects in the
morning, with me getting better and better all day until, by the
evening I was fantastic.
The sleep was better as well.
However, it was extremely variable and sever anxiety began to creep
in. i.e. If I woke at 5 a.m. and tried to get back to sleep then the
anxiety attacks were frightening.
Also I keep shivering and shaking, usually in the early hours of the
morning but increasingly at 'low' points during the day.
It gets worse if I do not move around. Sitting still (at a PC etc!)
makes it far more likely to occur.
Also I am becoming increasingly tearful, upset and everything else is
becoming a real problem.
Is it the (new) Dothiepin or is it the 'washout' effects from the
Cipramil?
My doctor has said that, if I wish, I can try to revert to Cipramil by
gradually reducing the dosage of Dothiepin (I have it in liquid form
as well) and immediately taking my previous dosage of Cipramil.
Alternatively, she is quite happy for me to continue to take the
Dothiepin and see if it 'settles down'.
I don't know which is the best course of action.
Whichever one I choose would seem to have only a 50% chance of being
the better of the two.
Does anyone have a view on this?
I don't know what to do for the best.
Thanks in advance.
David
David Probett
davidprobett@pobox.com
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| User: "Alexia" |
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| Title: Re: Advice needed urgently: Dothiepin |
17 Dec 2003 11:44:22 AM |
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David Probett wrote:
Hi
My doctor this morning decided to wean me off Cipramil 10mg/day and on
to Dothiepin (25mg/day).
Can anyone advise me as to whether this is a good idea?
I have been on Cipramil 10mg for 3 years and, whilst I don't like the
SSRI much it has kept me stable.
I have been unable to come off it for any length of time. Equally,
taking more than 10mg/day gives me the shakes.
I have recently experienced a bad viral infection (probably 'flu and
there have been some ongoing longish-term side-effects.
In addition, during the last year, I have been involved in 13 deaths
amoung the family and close friends (including 1 suicide.
In all I have had to attend seven of the funerals - some at distances
of more than 300 miles from my home.
Also, it has been incredibly stressful at work with considerable
re-arrangement of workload, duties, vat amounts of new work being
taken on with minimal increase in staffing levels.
I thought that the recent viral infection had triggered a 'delayed
shock' effect and stress.
The GP has had various blood and urine tests done but all came back as
'normal' In addition an ECG was performed which was said to be OK.
From my quick reading I cannot understand how even a low dose of
Dothiepin, in preference to Cipramil will improve matters.
1. Will I still be able to drive?
2. Will the former mood swings return.
3. There is a contra-indication about painkillers, particularly
Codeine. Is it safe?
4. There is a warning about difficulties in coming off the drug
and withdrawal problems.
I have now been signed off Sick for a month with "Stress" - no
surprise there.
I am scared of what might be about to happen to me if I take the
Dothiepin and whether I can expect any improvement.
Has anyone any experience of this drug, or of making the witch to it
from an SSRI?
Advise appreciated
David
David Probett
davidprobett@pobox.com
ICQ 10558763
Microsoft .NET passportholder
Hi David.
I was prescribed Dothiepin (25mg/day)for around 8 months earlier this year,
having been on Fluoxetine beforehand. I found the side effects (tremors and
sweats for the most part) whilst on the drug to be milder than the SSRI,
although I suffered spells of vertigo for some weeks after tapering off
Dothiepin. Dothiepin can have a mild sedative effect and in my case I was
taking it in the evening shortly before bed, which helped with my insomnia.
I was getting up the next day and functioning at work normally with no
"hang-over" from the sedation. I don't drive so can't answer as to whether
it would adversely affect one's ability to drive safely but would imagine
that taking it the night before would help there. As to whether your mood
swings will return, my moods were more stable on Dothiepin than the SSRI but
as with most meds, that's something that you'll only know by trying it, I'm
afraid.
HTH,
A xxx
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| User: "Christina Peterson" |
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| Title: Re: Advice needed urgently: Dothiepin |
17 Dec 2003 04:03:43 PM |
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Hi David,
I have no information on the meds, but wanted to offer my sympathetic
support for all that ***** coming down in the last year. Are you seeing a
therapist as well as the doctor?
Tina
"David Probett" <davidprobett@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:nbp0uvoeqoi34se8h6doad2arj87ukab0l@4ax.com...
Hi
My doctor this morning decided to wean me off Cipramil 10mg/day and on
to Dothiepin (25mg/day).
Can anyone advise me as to whether this is a good idea?
I have been on Cipramil 10mg for 3 years and, whilst I don't like the
SSRI much it has kept me stable.
I have been unable to come off it for any length of time. Equally,
taking more than 10mg/day gives me the shakes.
I have recently experienced a bad viral infection (probably 'flu and
there have been some ongoing longish-term side-effects.
In addition, during the last year, I have been involved in 13 deaths
amoung the family and close friends (including 1 suicide.
In all I have had to attend seven of the funerals - some at distances
of more than 300 miles from my home.
Also, it has been incredibly stressful at work with considerable
re-arrangement of workload, duties, vat amounts of new work being
taken on with minimal increase in staffing levels.
I thought that the recent viral infection had triggered a 'delayed
shock' effect and stress.
The GP has had various blood and urine tests done but all came back as
'normal' In addition an ECG was performed which was said to be OK.
From my quick reading I cannot understand how even a low dose of
Dothiepin, in preference to Cipramil will improve matters.
1. Will I still be able to drive?
2. Will the former mood swings return.
3. There is a contra-indication about painkillers, particularly
Codeine. Is it safe?
4. There is a warning about difficulties in coming off the drug
and withdrawal problems.
I have now been signed off Sick for a month with "Stress" - no
surprise there.
I am scared of what might be about to happen to me if I take the
Dothiepin and whether I can expect any improvement.
Has anyone any experience of this drug, or of making the witch to it
from an SSRI?
Advise appreciated
David
David Probett
davidprobett@pobox.com
ICQ 10558763
Microsoft .NET passportholder
.
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