peterantonrev@gmail.com wrote:

This is not a reply to any particular post but to the thread and
possibly to the whole group:

I'm new here and have not studied Jung's work in any depth. Does this
flame throwing have any bearing on the subject of this forum?

The /Zeitgeist/ has woken up the /Weltanschauung/ and they are having
a great big /gestalt/ ("circle-*****") on each other.
Monkeys don't throw fire; they throw their own turds.

It's too bad that Jung didn't put his monkeys in the Skinner-box,
or he'd have known that.

On the gripping hand, Pavlov had already proved that every time a
dog drools, a psychologist has to ring a bell, so why bother?

For all I know it's an esoteric and symbolic expression of repressed
sexual feelings, but I'm pretty sure that's Freud.

A.s., it's the expression of *****, not "sex," and it's literal, not
"symbolic."
When tired of the world of men, poets go to the zoo to observe the
fundamentals. The animals don't /appreciate/ the meal any more than
do men, but at least they /eat/ it.

Joy Yourcenir wrote:

Does this include telling John to suck your c**k because he disagrees with
you?

It was actually "suck his d*ck".
I still maintain that it could have been "duck".

What's up Dock?

What's down Dock?

I think it's a boat --- might be a yacht.

I dreamed in a nightmare it was a large cod
that had fallen full figured from God.

I worshipped Cod, there, on the Dock,
inclined, I saw a great Cod flock
that told me of Cod's way,
double blessed my poor dead gray,
and baptized my Usey-net socks.

While the limerick's certainly fine
For making a song of a whine,
The nature of rhyme
Has made Tommy a mime,
And there's still only so many syllables in a line.

John wrote:

Well, at least you're talking, Ilya Shambat.. Even, "Suck my duck," is
an
improvement.

I for one don't identify as a liberal. Conservative, either, for that
matter. Manifestos don't do it for me. They're so limiting. And they
don't make much sense.

Politics and government aren't about getting it right every time. They
never do. It's not in the nature of how people think and do things to
always get it right, much less to know ahead of time what the challenges
are
going to be.

Although we see people in different religious and spiritual paths
claiming that if they are in contact with the right powers, they do get
it right all the time for as long as that's where they keep their minds
& hearts. (& we see the same thing believed in science circles, though
embracing a different mechanism). There's people who say that solution
for problems of progress is more progress; for problems of faith is
more faith; for problems of knowledge is more knowledge; for problems
of democracy is more democracy; for problems of self-sacrifice is more
self-sacrifice; for problems of capitalism is more capitalism; etc.

You often write as though it would be a Good Thing if all conservatives
everywhere, but particularly in the good old US of A, and particularly in
the good old South of the good old US of A, were to meet a quick and not
unpainful end. There's a theoretical embarassment there, for you, that
you
never bother even acknowledging: if conservatives are the devil
incarnate,
have nothing to say worth hearing, why do they exist, and why do people
keep
listening to them?

Well, people listened to all kinds of nonsense, didn't they?

We see this attitude (reversed) expressed by conservatives. Many of
them want to assign liberalism to the dustbin of history and blame it
for all the problems and do horrible things to liberal-minded people
(especially women) among them.

Of course I have to fight that.

Do you remember how they acted when CLinton was elected president? How
they kept acting?

Then Rush Limbaugh with his "Reality Check" posters claiming that
nothing people can do can have effect on the planet? The survivalist
idiots? The men who believe that real men should be free from
government - freedom to commit brutality and atrocity to ones around
them - while the same real men should depend on government subsidies
that protect them from foreign competition - competition that is a
necessary outgrowth of the very capitalism they claim to believe in?

It's not all conservatism that I attack (there are some on the Right
that I get along with quite well). It's the abrasive, bullying,
heavy-handed, screaming jerks that we see on radio shows and elsewhere
that want to essentially kill the liberal-minded people.

We see some of that on Internet too.

Conservatives and liberals need each other. Better, the American society
needs both of their voices, and even more, the institutions that protect
and
encourage differences of opinion.

That's true. What I've been seeing though is something completely
different. What I've been seeing is fascism both on the left and the
right: The PC idiocy that tells people what they can say and what they
can't say - and the right-wingers acting like brownshirts and doing
extremely malicious nastiness to anyone who believes anything else.

The Soviet Union didn't make it out of the 20th century. The US has been
around for more than 200 years now. That should tell you something about
the staying power of ideological purity and the messiness of democracy.

Yeah, well. China has been around for a while too. So has the Catholic
Church.

So you don't get secular despotism. That's fine, I don't seek that
either. But can you not see how communities, churches, media, academia,
business, etc, can accomplish a de facto version of the same thing?

Ilya Shambat.