| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"CyberDroog" |
| Date: |
18 May 2005 08:30:15 AM |
| Object: |
Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a while. I was
reminded of it again by a recent post. So I started considering the 7, 8,
9 cans of soda, or more, I drink per day.
This is day three of my soda boycott. It's just anecdotal, but I seem to
be having a strange craving for food shortly after waking up. Usually the
thought of eating in the morning makes me wretch. But I just had five eggs
(scrambled) with ketchup (from experience I know that makes some other
people wretch), and an English muffin with raspberry preserves, plus some
milk with my fish oil. That's about 46 grams of protein total.
Yesterday I polished off the rest of the Mac & Tom (macaroni and tomatoes,
with ground beef) for breakfast. Yesterday I was also hungry again by
lunch time, and then again at dinner time.
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
feeling. All the times in my life where I've been hospitalized I usually
started to feel better. The common thread was much less soda and three
meals a day brought to me. Other times when I had a relatively good
appetite, I was attributing feeling better to having an appetite. Could it
be the other way around - that eating more regularly spaced meals was
making me feel better?
I wonder if there is something to this blood sugar idea. I'm not thinking
I have to do without soda forever - from what I've read the important part
is having sufficient protein in your system whenever you eat or drink
sugary foods - but for now I'm just doing without it. It's probably not
rocket science to assume that drinking all that soda was interfering with
my appetite for decent food. And since I was drinking soda from the time I
woke up, I wasn't getting much protein until lunch or dinner.
Does anyone have any in-depth knowledge about sugars? I have still been
drinking milk. Lactose is a sugar, isn't it? But not a refined sugar, I
suppose. What about Gatorade? I don't mean all day long, but I like
Gatorade after sitting in the jacuzzi or sauna. I also use Gatorade to
dilute my concentrated mineral liquid. Is the Gatorade okay, provided I
have already gotten protein in my system?
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
--
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
- Robert Heinlein
.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 11:04:10 PM |
|
|
CyberDroog wrote...
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a
while. I was reminded of it again by a recent post. So I
started considering the 7, 8, 9 cans of soda, or more, I
drink per day.
This is day three of my soda boycott. It's just anecdotal,
but I seem to be having a strange craving for food shortly
after waking up. Usually the thought of eating in the
morning makes me wretch. But I just had five eggs
(scrambled) with ketchup (from experience I know that makes
some other people wretch), and an English muffin with
raspberry preserves, plus some milk with my fish oil.
That's about 46 grams of protein total.
Yesterday I polished off the rest of the Mac & Tom
(macaroni and tomatoes, with ground beef) for breakfast.
Yesterday I was also hungry again by lunch time, and then
again at dinner time.
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an
overwhelming craving for ice cream, which I satisfied.
It's as if my body knew what was missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to
have a sinking feeling. All the times in my life where
I've been hospitalized I usually started to feel better.
The common thread was much less soda and three meals a day
brought to me. Other times when I had a relatively good
appetite, I was attributing feeling better to having an
appetite. Could it be the other way around - that eating
more regularly spaced meals was making me feel better?
I wonder if there is something to this blood sugar idea.
I'm not thinking I have to do without soda forever - from
what I've read the important part is having sufficient
protein in your system whenever you eat or drink sugary
foods - but for now I'm just doing without it. It's
probably not rocket science to assume that drinking all
that soda was interfering with my appetite for decent food.
And since I was drinking soda from the time I woke up, I
wasn't getting much protein until lunch or dinner.
Does anyone have any in-depth knowledge about sugars? I
have still been drinking milk. Lactose is a sugar, isn't
it? But not a refined sugar, I suppose. What about
Gatorade? I don't mean all day long, but I like Gatorade
after sitting in the jacuzzi or sauna. I also use Gatorade
to dilute my concentrated mineral liquid. Is the Gatorade
okay, provided I have already gotten protein in my system?
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex
carbohydrates I can eat nearer to bedtime. From what I've
read, this might help regulate blood sugar while you sleep,
and also aids in the production of melatonin/serotonin.
if you're finding that you do better on a low sugar diet and
eating regular meals, you might want your doc to do a glucose
tolerance test. not only to look for early diabetes, but to
see if you have hypoglycemia. either one could make your
depression worse.
btw, gatorade is loaded with sugar. think of it as non-
carbonated soda.
sorry.
-lisa
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
19 May 2005 07:43:35 AM |
|
|
On 19 May 2005 04:04:10 GMT, "lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote:
if you're finding that you do better on a low sugar diet and
eating regular meals, you might want your doc to do a glucose
tolerance test. not only to look for early diabetes, but to
see if you have hypoglycemia. either one could make your
depression worse.
This is only anecdotal, but I have tested my blood sugar quite often. My
mother is type 2 diabetic, so if I'm there and happen to help her with the
glucose meter I go ahead and test myself also. I don't recall ever testing
over 108, even when I was slurping on a one liter Mountain Dew up to and
while doing the test.
--
EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
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| User: "Youll Never Know" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
29 May 2005 05:56:03 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:43:35 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On 19 May 2005 04:04:10 GMT, "lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote:
if you're finding that you do better on a low sugar diet and
eating regular meals, you might want your doc to do a glucose
tolerance test. not only to look for early diabetes, but to
see if you have hypoglycemia. either one could make your
depression worse.
This is only anecdotal, but I have tested my blood sugar quite often. My
mother is type 2 diabetic, so if I'm there and happen to help her with the
glucose meter I go ahead and test myself also. I don't recall ever testing
over 108, even when I was slurping on a one liter Mountain Dew up to and
while doing the test.
Check your fasting BG also.
I found once I was actually diagnosed with diabetes (Type 2)
controlling not just sugar but ALL carbs has had a mojor effect, it's
not just the BG per se but the changes which seem improtant, knocking
down the spikes has reduced the dips and I guess that would prolly
also be true if you generated more insulin, levelling out the BG and
the insulin seems to have knock-on effects on all manner of systems
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
.
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| User: "wombn" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
29 May 2005 11:53:29 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:03 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:43:35 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On 19 May 2005 04:04:10 GMT, "lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote:
if you're finding that you do better on a low sugar diet and
eating regular meals, you might want your doc to do a glucose
tolerance test. not only to look for early diabetes, but to
see if you have hypoglycemia. either one could make your
depression worse.
This is only anecdotal, but I have tested my blood sugar quite often. My
mother is type 2 diabetic, so if I'm there and happen to help her with the
glucose meter I go ahead and test myself also. I don't recall ever testing
over 108, even when I was slurping on a one liter Mountain Dew up to and
while doing the test.
Check your fasting BG also.
I found once I was actually diagnosed with diabetes (Type 2)
controlling not just sugar but ALL carbs has had a mojor effect, it's
not just the BG per se but the changes which seem improtant, knocking
down the spikes has reduced the dips and I guess that would prolly
also be true if you generated more insulin, levelling out the BG and
the insulin seems to have knock-on effects on all manner of systems
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
what are your A1cs? I frequently have those 200+ spikes, but am not
sure how it affects my A1cs. This last quarter on my new pump has
been my 2nd best quarter in 5 years. I'm eagerly awaiting the test
results.
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
How 'bout pasta? I find pasta takes so long to digest that I can go
hypo before it's done, unlesss I space out my insulin.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
|
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| User: "Youll Never Know" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
30 May 2005 07:40:36 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:53:29 -0700, wombn
<wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:03 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
what are your A1cs? I frequently have those 200+ spikes, but am not
sure how it affects my A1cs. This last quarter on my new pump has
been my 2nd best quarter in 5 years. I'm eagerly awaiting the test
results.
Usually around 6.5. But I have something of a disrespect for the A1c.
it misses out a lot of stuff which can be dangerous. It's a good
baseline number but AFAIK you can get a good A1c by keeping good
numbers all the time, or keeping better numbers most of the time with
dangerous spikes in between.
I have somewhat different priorities from you I guess, I still have
enough beta cells to generate a basal level of insulin but I no longer
seem able to store it and release a bolus when I eat carbs,
particularly in the morning: one of my priorities at the moment is to
avoid anyhing which kills any more of them. Also I'm not sure of your
status with insulin resistance, I find I can "walk off" the spikes by
yomping round the block, lets the muscles soak up the glucose quite
quickly, can you do that?
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
How 'bout pasta? I find pasta takes so long to digest that I can go
hypo before it's done, unlesss I space out my insulin.
Er, eat less pasta? <G>
No *for me* pasta is somewhat slower than wheat, probably slower than
potatoes but to a degree it depends what it's mixed with, fat seems to
slow down the absorbtion but then I'm not supposed to eat that cos it
buggers the lipids. What I have found is that mixing different carbs
seems to have more than an additive effect, maybe if you tried eating
something else carby with the pasta it might speed up the digestion?
Less pasta plus a small slice of bread?
Maybe you could try shooting less insulin nearer to the time you eat
the pasta, test every half hour or less, see how that goes? That's NOT
a recommendation just a suggestion I've heard.
Here
http://www.dafne.uk.com/
Prolly preaching to the converted, this was a German concept which the
Brits have adopted for Type 1s, bearing in mind their "treatment" for
Type 2 seems to consist of not giving you a meter because the strips
are too expensive, if they consider this to be cost-effective it's
probably well worth investigating.
I try to do the same thing in reverse, eating to the amount of insulin
I produce. It's an endless game though isn't it, trying to track and
balance one thing against the other?
Wish you luck with your tests.
.
|
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| User: "wombn" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
30 May 2005 09:46:26 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:40:36 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:53:29 -0700, wombn
<wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:03 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
what are your A1cs? I frequently have those 200+ spikes, but am not
sure how it affects my A1cs. This last quarter on my new pump has
been my 2nd best quarter in 5 years. I'm eagerly awaiting the test
results.
Usually around 6.5.
WOW.
But I have something of a disrespect for the A1c.
it misses out a lot of stuff which can be dangerous.
?!?!?! How so?
It's a good
baseline number but AFAIK you can get a good A1c by keeping good
numbers all the time, or keeping better numbers most of the time with
dangerous spikes in between.
I have somewhat different priorities from you I guess, I still have
enough beta cells to generate a basal level of insulin but I no longer
seem able to store it and release a bolus when I eat carbs,
Would that be considered a later form of Type 2? Or is there some
other process going on?
particularly in the morning: one of my priorities at the moment is to
avoid anyhing which kills any more of them.
true.
Also I'm not sure of your
status with insulin resistance, I find I can "walk off" the spikes by
yomping round the block, lets the muscles soak up the glucose quite
quickly, can you do that?
If I had any muscles left, yeah. But I took too long getting the
Hashimoto's diagnosed (autoimmune distruction of the thyroid) and I
just can't seem to crawl up out of that hole even though my dosage has
been stable for at least a year.
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
How 'bout pasta? I find pasta takes so long to digest that I can go
hypo before it's done, unlesss I space out my insulin.
Er, eat less pasta? <G>
:-) Mostly I do. But sometimes Thor whips up a batch... I'm even
less resistent to pizza.
No *for me* pasta is somewhat slower than wheat, probably slower than
potatoes but to a degree it depends what it's mixed with, fat seems to
slow down the absorbtion but then I'm not supposed to eat that cos it
buggers the lipids. What I have found is that mixing different carbs
seems to have more than an additive effect, maybe if you tried eating
something else carby with the pasta it might speed up the digestion?
cheese. mmmm.
Less pasta plus a small slice of bread?
cheese. mmmm. :-)
Maybe you could try shooting less insulin nearer to the time you eat
the pasta, test every half hour or less, see how that goes? That's NOT
a recommendation just a suggestion I've heard.
My pump can be programmed to release the bolus over some spell of
time. I'm still working on it. Haven't hit the right pattern yet.
But then, I still haven't figured out how to calculate the carbs right
for spaghetti, either!
Here
http://www.dafne.uk.com/
Yeah, that's sort of how I was taught. Except I'm on the pump, so I
only use quick-acting, but the pump trickles it out 24x7 for the
long-acting action.
Prolly preaching to the converted, this was a German concept which the
Brits have adopted for Type 1s, bearing in mind their "treatment" for
Type 2 seems to consist of not giving you a meter because the strips
well, t2's are fortunate here to get a meter, but only 2 strips a day
at places like Kaiser. (I hate Kaiser--don't get me started)
are too expensive, if they consider this to be cost-effective it's
probably well worth investigating.
I try to do the same thing in reverse, eating to the amount of insulin
I produce. It's an endless game though isn't it, trying to track and
balance one thing against the other?
Yup. And then there's weight gain/loss issues, colds and flus and
activity levels and... and and and...
I think the destruction process has finally finished for me. I'm not
getting spurts anymore. Just gaining weight! ACK.
Wish you luck with your tests.
thank you!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
|
|
|
| User: "%. surfs@uniserve" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
30 May 2005 09:49:22 PM |
|
|
"wombn" <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfjn91pc6e9cf6c35m724pps0ct7ldnjjn@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:40:36 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:53:29 -0700, wombn
<wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:03 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
what are your A1cs? I frequently have those 200+ spikes, but am not
sure how it affects my A1cs. This last quarter on my new pump has
been my 2nd best quarter in 5 years. I'm eagerly awaiting the test
results.
Usually around 6.5.
WOW.
But I have something of a disrespect for the A1c.
it misses out a lot of stuff which can be dangerous.
?!?!?! How so?
It's a good
baseline number but AFAIK you can get a good A1c by keeping good
numbers all the time, or keeping better numbers most of the time with
dangerous spikes in between.
I have somewhat different priorities from you I guess, I still have
enough beta cells to generate a basal level of insulin but I no longer
seem able to store it and release a bolus when I eat carbs,
Would that be considered a later form of Type 2? Or is there some
other process going on?
particularly in the morning: one of my priorities at the moment is to
avoid anyhing which kills any more of them.
true.
Also I'm not sure of your
status with insulin resistance, I find I can "walk off" the spikes by
yomping round the block, lets the muscles soak up the glucose quite
quickly, can you do that?
If I had any muscles left, yeah. But I took too long getting the
Hashimoto's diagnosed (autoimmune distruction of the thyroid) and I
just can't seem to crawl up out of that hole even though my dosage has
been stable for at least a year.
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
How 'bout pasta? I find pasta takes so long to digest that I can go
hypo before it's done, unlesss I space out my insulin.
Er, eat less pasta? <G>
:-) Mostly I do. But sometimes Thor whips up a batch... I'm even
less resistent to pizza.
No *for me* pasta is somewhat slower than wheat, probably slower than
potatoes but to a degree it depends what it's mixed with, fat seems to
slow down the absorbtion but then I'm not supposed to eat that cos it
buggers the lipids. What I have found is that mixing different carbs
seems to have more than an additive effect, maybe if you tried eating
something else carby with the pasta it might speed up the digestion?
cheese. mmmm.
Less pasta plus a small slice of bread?
cheese. mmmm. :-)
Maybe you could try shooting less insulin nearer to the time you eat
the pasta, test every half hour or less, see how that goes? That's NOT
a recommendation just a suggestion I've heard.
My pump can be programmed to release the bolus over some spell of
time. I'm still working on it. Haven't hit the right pattern yet.
But then, I still haven't figured out how to calculate the carbs right
for spaghetti, either!
Here
http://www.dafne.uk.com/
Yeah, that's sort of how I was taught. Except I'm on the pump, so I
only use quick-acting, but the pump trickles it out 24x7 for the
long-acting action.
Prolly preaching to the converted, this was a German concept which the
Brits have adopted for Type 1s, bearing in mind their "treatment" for
Type 2 seems to consist of not giving you a meter because the strips
well, t2's are fortunate here to get a meter, but only 2 strips a day
at places like Kaiser. (I hate Kaiser--don't get me started)
are too expensive, if they consider this to be cost-effective it's
probably well worth investigating.
I try to do the same thing in reverse, eating to the amount of insulin
I produce. It's an endless game though isn't it, trying to track and
balance one thing against the other?
Yup. And then there's weight gain/loss issues, colds and flus and
activity levels and... and and and...
I think the destruction process has finally finished for me. I'm not
getting spurts anymore. Just gaining weight! ACK.
Wish you luck with your tests.
thank you!
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
and i get stuck with nothing but 5's
.
|
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| User: "Youll Never Know" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
31 May 2005 07:50:19 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:49:22 -0700, "%." <surfs@uniserve> wrote:
and i get stuck with nothing but 5's
You're cured. Go home.
.
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| User: "Youll Never Know" |
|
| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
31 May 2005 07:49:57 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:46:26 -0700, wombn
<wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:40:36 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:53:29 -0700, wombn
<wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:03 -0400, You'll Never Know
<spam@spamspamspam.org.invalid> wrote:
I can go from fasting around 90 up to 200 and back down to 120 within
two hours so the FBG and 2 hour GTT misses me, then two more hours
later I'm down to 60 - 70 territory, so by some standards I'm not
diabetic BUT most of the symptoms disappear if I stay below 120 and
preferably less, and that knocks out the hypos too.
what are your A1cs? I frequently have those 200+ spikes, but am not
sure how it affects my A1cs. This last quarter on my new pump has
been my 2nd best quarter in 5 years. I'm eagerly awaiting the test
results.
Usually around 6.5.
WOW.
Yes with the wind in the right direction I'm hardly diabetic at all. I
had to buy my own meter and strips and take a metric shitload of
readings in to the doctor to prove what was going on in between the
"nomal" numbers.
But I have something of a disrespect for the A1c.
it misses out a lot of stuff which can be dangerous.
?!?!?! How so?
It's kind of an average, gives you a good idea of how much glucose is
in the blood over the time the blood cells are alive but not whether
that's a level level or a series of peaks and troughs. Easy to measure
and has quite a lot of predictive value but you also need to control
the peaks, a lot of the actual damage is down to the height of the
spikes from the research I read.
It's a good
baseline number but AFAIK you can get a good A1c by keeping good
numbers all the time, or keeping better numbers most of the time with
dangerous spikes in between.
I have somewhat different priorities from you I guess, I still have
enough beta cells to generate a basal level of insulin but I no longer
seem able to store it and release a bolus when I eat carbs,
Would that be considered a later form of Type 2? Or is there some
other process going on?
Technically I'm still only "prediabetic", as far as I can see from my
meter what's missing (especially in the morning) is the ability to
produce the initial flush on insulin on eating carbs, hence I can
generate some spectacular spikes but they're fairly short-lived as the
insulin trickles out. What I have to do is eat to the insulin like no
carbs, few carbs and slow carbs, depending on the time of day.
Look at Stefano del Prato's paper here
http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145_pnt
I've gotten as far as the loss of first-phase insulin but the second
phase still seems to be working.
The more actual research I read (rather than the digested versions)
the more convinced I am that there are actually a whole bunch of
similar but different conditions called "diabetes" much like there are
a whole bunch of similar but different conditions called "depression".
Some Type 2s develop high FBG first, mine is still resolutely normal,
it's the postprandials that are gone off to lala land. I don't have
many of the other possibly causal symptoms like I'm not overweight.
What I *do* have is Type 2 running all through one side of my family
(the depression runs all through the other side) I was gobsmacked to
discover it was predominantly males who were affected and that most of
them died young. Which was why I didn't know this previously, and why
I got paranoid enough to do something about it. Most of the females
and unaffected males are long-lived but still usually die of heart
failure/high blood pressure/high cholesterol axis things so it looks
like they carry the same genetics and in some individuals they work
quicker.
particularly in the morning: one of my priorities at the moment is to
avoid anyhing which kills any more of them.
true.
That's one of the major differences between Type 1 and Type 2, we lose
the cells gradually over time so we get the opportuntiy (IF DIAGNOSED
<glares>) to slow down the degeneration with diet exercise and drugs,
yours get carried off quick.
Also I'm not sure of your
status with insulin resistance, I find I can "walk off" the spikes by
yomping round the block, lets the muscles soak up the glucose quite
quickly, can you do that?
If I had any muscles left, yeah. But I took too long getting the
Hashimoto's diagnosed (autoimmune distruction of the thyroid) and I
just can't seem to crawl up out of that hole even though my dosage has
been stable for at least a year.
<pricks up ears. Then takes it out again>
There's one of those almost-patterns to so many diseases with an
autoimmune component, I just bet somewhere there's a connection
between the autoimmune destruction of your thyroid and the autoimmune
destruction of your pancreas. Did you get any form of viral infection
shortly before this occurred? Do you actually have depression as well
as a separate entity or was that also connected to the Hashimoto's?
Think cortisol/CRH/CRF. I have something like 23 papers here I'm
ploughing through originally for someone else with Cushings depression
and diabetes but now for my own amusement, there's a pattern there but
I didn't find it yet, smewhere in between cortisol TNF interleukins
and other factors of inflammation and immune response.
Not necessarily low-carbing, but lower-carbing, seems the way to go,
have a look at the GI and Glycemic Load and try to work out your own
personal sensitivities, for me wheat is nearly as bad as sugar in the
am, oats are nearly always OK, other carbs are in between.
How 'bout pasta? I find pasta takes so long to digest that I can go
hypo before it's done, unlesss I space out my insulin.
Er, eat less pasta? <G>
:-) Mostly I do. But sometimes Thor whips up a batch... I'm even
less resistent to pizza.
<drools>
Make him put labels saying POISON on the plate.
No *for me* pasta is somewhat slower than wheat, probably slower than
potatoes but to a degree it depends what it's mixed with, fat seems to
slow down the absorbtion but then I'm not supposed to eat that cos it
buggers the lipids. What I have found is that mixing different carbs
seems to have more than an additive effect, maybe if you tried eating
something else carby with the pasta it might speed up the digestion?
cheese. mmmm.
Keep taking those statins.
Less pasta plus a small slice of bread?
cheese. mmmm. :-)
Keep taking the fish (oil) too, mebbe you'll get away with it . . .
Maybe you could try shooting less insulin nearer to the time you eat
the pasta, test every half hour or less, see how that goes? That's NOT
a recommendation just a suggestion I've heard.
My pump can be programmed to release the bolus over some spell of
time. I'm still working on it. Haven't hit the right pattern yet.
But then, I still haven't figured out how to calculate the carbs right
for spaghetti, either!
Yes that's something we have in common, I can eat x grams of carbs
without fuss but x+1 grams = disaster. Then they keep changing x when
they think I'm not looking.
http://www.dafne.uk.com/
Yeah, that's sort of how I was taught. Except I'm on the pump, so I
only use quick-acting, but the pump trickles it out 24x7 for the
long-acting action.
So what do you do, turn it up before you eat? Or do you get an
"override" button? Theoretically when you know what you're doing you
could emulate what "normies"™ do naturally. Makes you realise just how
much sophisticated stuff goes on behind the scenes eh?
Prolly preaching to the converted, this was a German concept which the
Brits have adopted for Type 1s, bearing in mind their "treatment" for
Type 2 seems to consist of not giving you a meter because the strips
well, t2's are fortunate here to get a meter, but only 2 strips a day
at places like Kaiser. (I hate Kaiser--don't get me started)
Yeah I also read that "Evidence-based" paper <spit>
Pretty much what I got initially, go away and come back when you need
your first amputation. As someone wrote, perhaps they're running short
of Soylent Green.
are too expensive, if they consider this to be cost-effective it's
probably well worth investigating.
I try to do the same thing in reverse, eating to the amount of insulin
I produce. It's an endless game though isn't it, trying to track and
balance one thing against the other?
Yup. And then there's weight gain/loss issues, colds and flus and
activity levels and... and and and...
Pacman was never like this.
I think the destruction process has finally finished for me. I'm not
getting spurts anymore. Just gaining weight! ACK.
Oh is that where it went? I'm still losing. Not that I was actually
overweight but I was collecting something of a gut.
Wish you luck with your tests.
thank you!
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
19 May 2005 02:33:39 AM |
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On 19 May 2005 04:04:10 GMT, "lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote:
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex
carbohydrates I can eat nearer to bedtime. From what I've
read, this might help regulate blood sugar while you sleep,
and also aids in the production of melatonin/serotonin.
if you're finding that you do better on a low sugar diet and
eating regular meals, you might want your doc to do a glucose
tolerance test. not only to look for early diabetes, but to
see if you have hypoglycemia. either one could make your
depression worse.
btw, gatorade is loaded with sugar. think of it as non-
carbonated soda.
sorry.
welll..... I wouldn't think of it as carb**loaded**. 14 gm per 8 oz.
That's almost the same as my whole milk (13 gm).
Cokes, OTOH..... 38 gm per can (or about 25 gm per 8 oz)
So maybe half-loaded. :-)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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| User: "Eddie" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 04:04:54 PM |
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CyberDroog wrote:
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a while. I was
reminded of it again by a recent post. So I started considering the
7, 8,
9 cans of soda, or more, I drink per day.
- Robert Heinlein
I have a post in this group somewhere on this very subject. Can't
remember the subject I put on it tho. Been a couple of weeks ago I
think. I'll try to dig it out later.
Eddie
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 04:46:58 PM |
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On 18 May 2005 14:04:54 -0700, "Eddie" <hardbark@wowway.com> wrote:
CyberDroog wrote:
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a while. I was
reminded of it again by a recent post. So I started considering the
7, 8,
9 cans of soda, or more, I drink per day.
- Robert Heinlein
I have a post in this group somewhere on this very subject. Can't
remember the subject I put on it tho. Been a couple of weeks ago I
think. I'll try to dig it out later.
"For what it is worth......" was the subject. That is what got me thinking
about it again.
--
PREDILECTION, n. The preparatory stage of disillusion.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Eddie" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 06:24:51 PM |
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I have a post in this group somewhere on this very subject. Can't
remember the subject I put on it tho. Been a couple of weeks ago I
think. I'll try to dig it out later.
"For what it is worth......" was the subject. That is what got me
thinking
about it again.
- Ambrose Bierce
Well good Ambrose......everything I said in that post still holds true
for me.
Eddie
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 06:50:50 PM |
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On 18 May 2005 16:24:51 -0700, "Eddie" <hardbark@wowway.com> wrote:
I have a post in this group somewhere on this very subject. Can't
remember the subject I put on it tho. Been a couple of weeks ago I
think. I'll try to dig it out later.
"For what it is worth......" was the subject. That is what got me
thinking
about it again.
- Ambrose Bierce
Well good Ambrose......everything I said in that post still holds true
for me.
Thanks for the inspiration! But I'm not Ambrose... Ambrose is the author
of the quote in that particular message.
--
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips
in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
- Douglas Adams
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| User: "yellow river, with millie & mollie" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 08:43:08 AM |
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CyberDroog wrote:
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a while. I was
reminded of it again by a recent post. So I started considering the 7, 8,
9 cans of soda, or more, I drink per day.
This is day three of my soda boycott. It's just anecdotal, but I seem to
be having a strange craving for food shortly after waking up. Usually the
thought of eating in the morning makes me wretch. But I just had five eggs
(scrambled) with ketchup (from experience I know that makes some other
people wretch), and an English muffin with raspberry preserves, plus some
milk with my fish oil. That's about 46 grams of protein total.
How many grams of sugar and saturated fat?
Yesterday I polished off the rest of the Mac & Tom (macaroni and tomatoes,
with ground beef) for breakfast. Yesterday I was also hungry again by
lunch time, and then again at dinner time.
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Regular ice cream is full of sugar and saturated fat.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
feeling. All the times in my life where I've been hospitalized I usually
started to feel better. The common thread was much less soda and three
meals a day brought to me. Other times when I had a relatively good
appetite, I was attributing feeling better to having an appetite. Could it
be the other way around - that eating more regularly spaced meals was
making me feel better?
I wonder if there is something to this blood sugar idea. I'm not thinking
I have to do without soda forever - from what I've read the important part
is having sufficient protein in your system whenever you eat or drink
sugary foods - but for now I'm just doing without it. It's probably not
rocket science to assume that drinking all that soda was interfering with
my appetite for decent food. And since I was drinking soda from the time I
woke up, I wasn't getting much protein until lunch or dinner.
You can drink diet soda. It's sugar free.
Does anyone have any in-depth knowledge about sugars? I have still been
drinking milk. Lactose is a sugar, isn't it? But not a refined sugar, I
suppose.
Yes, lactose is a sugar. The body has to convert it to glucose, which
slows down its absorption.
What about Gatorade? I don't mean all day long, but I like
Gatorade after sitting in the jacuzzi or sauna. I also use Gatorade to
dilute my concentrated mineral liquid. Is the Gatorade okay, provided I
have already gotten protein in my system?
If I remember correctly, there is plenty of sugar in Gatorade.
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
--
- yellow river, with millie and mollie
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| User: "Bev Thornton" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 03:40:37 PM |
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On 2005-05-18, CyberDroog wrote:
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
feeling. All the times in my life where I've been hospitalized I usually
started to feel better. The common thread was much less soda and three
meals a day brought to me. Other times when I had a relatively good
appetite, I was attributing feeling better to having an appetite. Could it
be the other way around - that eating more regularly spaced meals was
making me feel better?
Yes.
Counting by sodas is misleading. Sugars content is what counts.
Gatorade and alcohol count, too. Nevermind milk, it's balanced by itself.
You can count it, but that's a different deal.
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
Do a reconnaissance of your pantry.
--
<bevthornton@despammed.com> Support: <http://www.mercycorps.org/>
Let one admonish; let one teach; let one forbid the wrong;
and one will be loved by the good and hated by the bad.
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 03:04:43 PM |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:30:15 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The subject is something I have been mulling over for a while. I was
reminded of it again by a recent post. So I started considering the 7, 8,
9 cans of soda, or more, I drink per day.
This is day three of my soda boycott. It's just anecdotal, but I seem to
be having a strange craving for food shortly after waking up. Usually the
thought of eating in the morning makes me wretch. But I just had five eggs
(scrambled) with ketchup (from experience I know that makes some other
people wretch), and an English muffin with raspberry preserves, plus some
milk with my fish oil. That's about 46 grams of protein total.
Yesterday I polished off the rest of the Mac & Tom (macaroni and tomatoes,
with ground beef) for breakfast. Yesterday I was also hungry again by
lunch time, and then again at dinner time.
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
feeling. All the times in my life where I've been hospitalized I usually
started to feel better. The common thread was much less soda and three
meals a day brought to me. Other times when I had a relatively good
appetite, I was attributing feeling better to having an appetite. Could it
be the other way around - that eating more regularly spaced meals was
making me feel better?
that's definitely the case with me. I don't usually feel hunger, so I
usually have to remind myself to eat. Although, now that I'm actively
trying to lose weight, I'm actually feeling hungry at times.
I wonder if there is something to this blood sugar idea. I'm not thinking
I have to do without soda forever - from what I've read the important part
is having sufficient protein in your system whenever you eat or drink
sugary foods - but for now I'm just doing without it. It's probably not
rocket science to assume that drinking all that soda was interfering with
my appetite for decent food. And since I was drinking soda from the time I
woke up, I wasn't getting much protein until lunch or dinner.
Does anyone have any in-depth knowledge about sugars? I have still been
not from this angle.
drinking milk. Lactose is a sugar, isn't it? But not a refined sugar, I
suppose. What about Gatorade? I don't mean all day long, but I like
Gatorade after sitting in the jacuzzi or sauna. I also use Gatorade to
dilute my concentrated mineral liquid. Is the Gatorade okay, provided I
have already gotten protein in my system?
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
Pasta seems to me to be a very slow carb, interestingly--maybe that's
because of all the cheese I put on it? The lists below indicate it's
a high glycemic food, so maybe it's the cheese.
Anyway, it takes me at least 5-6 hours to digest. Which is why I have
to space out my insulin. My insulin lasts about 4 hours, and if I
give it all to myself right when I eat, then I invariably go too low
at about hour 3. And then it swings back up too high because I had to
treat the low.
http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm
Have you ever read Protein Power? Interesting book. I can't remember
very many factoids from it though. But I think they do address some
of your questions in there.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 03:19:38 PM |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:43 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:30:15 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
I had a mild headache the first two days. But I had already cut way down
on the amount of caffeine I was drinking.
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
Pasta seems to me to be a very slow carb, interestingly--maybe that's
because of all the cheese I put on it? The lists below indicate it's
a high glycemic food, so maybe it's the cheese.
I'm a little confused about the high/low glycemic stuff I've been reading.
Some of the anti-sugar articles I have read suggest, for instance, eating
potatoes nearer to bedtime. But they are high-glycemic.
--
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a
fool trusts either of them.
- P.J. O'Rourke
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| User: "jake" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
19 May 2005 06:17:53 AM |
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CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:43 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:30:15 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
I had a mild headache the first two days. But I had already cut way down
on the amount of caffeine I was drinking.
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
Pasta seems to me to be a very slow carb, interestingly--maybe that's
because of all the cheese I put on it? The lists below indicate it's
a high glycemic food, so maybe it's the cheese.
I'm a little confused about the high/low glycemic stuff I've been reading.
Some of the anti-sugar articles I have read suggest, for instance, eating
potatoes nearer to bedtime. But they are high-glycemic.
the GI-stuff IS confusing. Actually, glycemic load matters more then
glycemic index. For instance, if you eat a small quantity of a high-GI
food, it won't affect your blood sugar much at all.
.
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 03:37:51 PM |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:19:38 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:43 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:30:15 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The day before that I also ate breakfast, and then got an overwhelming
craving for ice cream, which I satisfied. It's as if my body knew what was
missing.
Maybe it's just another blind alley, but I'm starting to have a sinking
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
I had a mild headache the first two days.
I hate you.
But I had already cut way down
on the amount of caffeine I was drinking.
I trying to think of what kinds of starchy, complex carbohydrates I can eat
nearer to bedtime. From what I've read, this might help regulate blood
sugar while you sleep, and also aids in the production of
melatonin/serotonin.
Pasta seems to me to be a very slow carb, interestingly--maybe that's
because of all the cheese I put on it? The lists below indicate it's
a high glycemic food, so maybe it's the cheese.
I'm a little confused about the high/low glycemic stuff I've been reading.
yeah, why can't this stuff be easy?! <lays on the floor and kicks
feet>
Some of the anti-sugar articles I have read suggest, for instance, eating
potatoes nearer to bedtime. But they are high-glycemic.
I suppose it's because they're complex carbs. Which doesn't seem to
affect its glycemic index.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 04:44:44 PM |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:37:51 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:19:38 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:43 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
I had a mild headache the first two days.
I hate you.
Hehehe, well for your benefit I might be willing to inflict a small head
injury... ;)
Some of the anti-sugar articles I have read suggest, for instance, eating
potatoes nearer to bedtime. But they are high-glycemic.
I suppose it's because they're complex carbs. Which doesn't seem to
affect its glycemic index.
That's what I gather. The more complex carbs are supposed to help even out
your blood sugar over a long period such as the nightly fast.
--
REPORTER, n. A writer who guesses his way to the truth and dispels it
with a tempest of words.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: Blood, Sugar, and Depression |
18 May 2005 04:56:33 PM |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:44:44 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:37:51 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:19:38 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:43 -0700, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
I'm finding this very interesting. Are you getting caffiene
withdrawal headaches?
I had a mild headache the first two days.
I hate you.
Hehehe, well for your benefit I might be willing to inflict a small head
injury... ;)
Thor has found that banging a phone on his head improves my mood
dramatically.
Some of the anti-sugar articles I have read suggest, for instance, eating
potatoes nearer to bedtime. But they are high-glycemic.
I suppose it's because they're complex carbs. Which doesn't seem to
affect its glycemic index.
That's what I gather. The more complex carbs are supposed to help even out
your blood sugar over a long period such as the nightly fast.
I adore potatoes (slathered in chesse and ranch dressing, of course),
but it does horrid stuff to my BGs.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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