| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Jane" |
| Date: |
11 Dec 2005 09:51:52 PM |
| Object: |
Borderline Personality Disorder |
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Jane
--
"A friend is a person who knows all there is to know about you
and loves you anyway."
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| User: "pannah" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:33:01 PM |
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"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5r6nf.51292$i7.6904@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Jane
--
"A friend is a person who knows all there is to know about you
and loves you anyway."
it's a group of symptoms most prevalent in people who grow up with abuse,
it's not really a disorder in and of itself, it's the results of growing up
with abuse.
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| User: "^s^" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 02:14:53 PM |
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I was told I was a "High Functioning" BPD by a pdoc some years ago. Still
don't know if I buy it or not as most people I have come across seem to
exhibit some or all of the traits to some degree or another. Not to say
that I am not disordered, but that Dx seemed a little broad and catch-all to
me.
I think you would have to be a machine to skip past the criteria without
tripping on your shoelace once or twice.
^s^
">
"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5r6nf.51292$i7.6904@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
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| User: "gravity" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:32:13 AM |
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"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5r6nf.51292$i7.6904@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
self-diagnosis is really tough. i didn't know i had AvPD and depression
until i went to a doctor.
Gravity
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| User: "gravity" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:30:27 AM |
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"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5r6nf.51292$i7.6904@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
well the meds never work for BPD. i'd recommend a boyfriend with a healthy
appetite, a spending spree at a shoe store, and a turbocharged Mustang.
Dr. Gravity
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 04:51:07 AM |
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"gravity" <gravity1@m-net.arbornet.org> wrote in message
news:439d1904$0$86609$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5r6nf.51292$i7.6904@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
well the meds never work for BPD. i'd recommend a boyfriend with a
healthy appetite, a spending spree at a shoe store, and a turbocharged
Mustang.
Dr. Gravity
Got anyone in mind?
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| User: "LittleBrownFish" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 07:13:52 AM |
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I have worked with lots of borderline PDs. Another good way to think of
them is emotionally unstable personalities. They can go through periods
of 'normalcy', but their stress thresholds seem to be MUCH MUCH lower
than most peoples, and they display this in various ways...favourite
ways seem to be deliberate self harm: cutting skin at the wrists
classically, taking paracetamol (as most lay people think this is a
harmless drug), feigning physical illness, manipulation of others, not
taking responsibility for own choices/actions, blames others for bad
things that happen to them, substance use/abuse is common, too, as
these people have the desire to escape from their feelings, 'short
fuse' tempers and unwillingness to reason or rationalise. Also, a
certain neediness and emotional immaturity.
A lot of borderlines come to the mental health services with complaints
of some kind of childhood abuse.
The main thing with any personality disorder is that it is NOT an
illness (and therefore, cannot be treated with drugs...treatment is
learning new skills and coping methods), it is simply a personality
type that is considered 'disordered' because it is outside socially
accepted norms of behaviour.
The border-line individual needs to learn new ways of coping (CBT and
DBT are helpful) and relaxing rather than relying on medications
(favourites are diazepam, lorazepam and zopiclone) and other people to
'make it right' for them.
Another thing to know is that the word 'border-line' does NOT indicate
that the person is 'nearly' a personality disorder, or that this type
of personality disorder is lesser than the other types....the name
tries to imply that these people can sometimes be ok, and sometimes
not. The border-line is the line they transit when passing from one
state to the other.
It is also note worthy that borderline pd does not exist (at least for
very long) in 3rd world countries. When I was told this by an Indian
doctor friend (he told me that there are no BLPDs in India!), I thought
he was being outrageous and provocative. I looked into it and
discovered he was correct. The 3rd world does not have the resources to
spend time and money on people who present with BLPD, and they get no
'rewards' in the form of medication, attention and a label. Therefore,
they drop the behaviour very quickly and concentrate on surviving.
BLPD seems to be a western condition because we pander to it by
offering hospitalisation (which relieves the person of their
stress),anxiolitic medication (again, stress relief) and attention from
medical professionals (more stress relief). Once on this treadmill of
attention seek-attention find, the BLPD learns what to do to absolve
their stress....cut self, or swallow pills to get hospitalised. This
happens from the first admission and is a horribly difficult cycle to
break, sadly.
My explanation is not meant to be judgmental...I am simply trying to
stick with objective facts here. I have worked with BLPDs for many
years now and the pattern is remarkably similar from client to client.
Regards,
LBF
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| User: "LittleBrownFish" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 07:48:04 AM |
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I would like to add that in no way should the BLPD's feelings of
extreme anxiety and sometimes depression be thought of as merely an
act. Yes, they do 'act out' when they feel desperate, and that
eventually makes others close to them fed up, but what they experience
is very intense and very real to them. What they DO need to develop is
self-control and the desire to change their responses.
LBF
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 10:42:54 AM |
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LittleBrownFish wrote:
I have worked with lots of borderline PDs. Another good way to think of
them is emotionally unstable personalities. They can go through periods
of 'normalcy', but their stress thresholds seem to be MUCH MUCH lower
than most peoples, and they display this in various ways...favourite
ways seem to be deliberate self harm: cutting skin at the wrists
classically, taking paracetamol (as most lay people think this is a
harmless drug), feigning physical illness, manipulation of others, not
taking responsibility for own choices/actions, blames others for bad
things that happen to them, substance use/abuse is common, too, as
these people have the desire to escape from their feelings, 'short
fuse' tempers and unwillingness to reason or rationalise. Also, a
certain neediness and emotional immaturity.
I'm so glad someone posted something about personal experiences. I can
also go through periods of normalcy, actually quite long periods of it.
Ok I handle stress really well, I actually perform a lot better under
stress. I did cut, but haven't since 2000 or 2001 can't remember. I
have no idea what paracetamol is. I don't fake being physically ill,
I've had cancer numerous times and radiation, so faking it isn't an
option, I don't need to. I don't know if I manipulate, honestly, I've
never had anyone say that I am a manipulator, though I have been told I
am passive/agressive. I tend to blame myself for everything. I also
point the finger. I don't really drink maybe socially once in a while,
and pot... I went 14 years without smoking it, but this last year with
all the crap that fell apart in my life, pot was a nice sedative. I
don't have a short fuse temper, I am also pretty reasonable. Though I
am pretty needy. Again I don't know about emotional immaturity.
The more I read of your discription, the more I think I was mistaken.
A lot of borderlines come to the mental health services with complaints
of some kind of childhood abuse.
Yes I have been, but wont get into detail here.
My explanation is not meant to be judgmental...I am simply trying to
stick with objective facts here. I have worked with BLPDs for many
years now and the pattern is remarkably similar from client to client.
Thanks I appreciate your sticking with the facts. It freaked me out a
bit last night.
Jane
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| User: "LittleBrownFish" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:00:41 PM |
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Hi Jane,
I'm glad you got something out of what I've written. Another thing I
didn't mention, as poor old Electro did (above), was drama and chaos.
With BLPDs, there is always a sense of drama and their lives are
generally chaotic. His description is pretty spot on.
Btw, paracetamol is an over-the-counter pain-killer. It's cheap, does
its job, but can irreversibly damage your liver if you consume as few
as 16 tablets in one hit. Most lay-people don't know that and therefore
use it as a 'cry for help' overdose method as they think it won't harm
them. Sadly, a lot of people die very miserably because of using it.
All people have traits in their personality. It is only when certain
criteria are met that it becomes a disorder. What you seem to be
describing of yourself is that you have some traits of a BLPD (cutting
is classic). If you manage your life and your relationships adequately,
then it is unlikely that you have the full disorder.
Regards,
LBF
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
13 Dec 2005 10:32:39 AM |
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On 12 Dec 2005 05:13:52 -0800, "LittleBrownFish"
<weirdfeet@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
<snipped for space>
->BLPD seems to be a western condition because we pander to it by
->offering hospitalisation (which relieves the person of their
->stress),anxiolitic medication (again, stress relief) and attention from
->medical professionals (more stress relief). Once on this treadmill of
->attention seek-attention find, the BLPD learns what to do to absolve
->their stress....cut self, or swallow pills to get hospitalised. This
->happens from the first admission and is a horribly difficult cycle to
->break, sadly.
->
->My explanation is not meant to be judgmental...I am simply trying to
->stick with objective facts here. I have worked with BLPDs for many
->years now and the pattern is remarkably similar from client to client.
I'd agree with the statements that if you encounter a true borderline,
you'll know it. Dr. Sid's mentor's advice was eerily accurate. I had
a close friend some years ago who was Dx'd with BPD. When I met her,
she was deeply traumatized due to childhood abuse and losing her
mother in a tragic way. She was depressed and suicidal, no more than
anyone would expect from someone of her experience.
As time went on, her behavior became more bizarre. Due to repeated
overdoses, she ended up with liver and heart damage by her late
twenties. Her behavior became so intolerable, I cut off all contact
with her. I've encountered others since. After remembering the
exhaustion, invented crises and constant drama of my friend, I learned
to flee from obvious borderline individuals. It can be difficult. If
they decide to make you a target, they'll try nearly anything to get
attached. They're pretty verbal about why they want your
"friendship"; you have something "they need and cannot live without".
Becoming entangled with one leads to exhaustion quite soon.
I have a couple of questions. (Everyone else, please read this
carefully before you flame. It's NOT about anyone on ASD!!!)
1. Do you think a label such as BPD gives some individuals, whose
fundamental problem is refusal to mature, license to continue childish
behavior? IMO, many severe borderlines are ridiculously infantile.
They are usually intelligent and spend a great deal of time learning
new and increasingly dangerous ways to draw attention to themselves.
By this, I mean frequent announcements of suicidality, public displays
of overdosing, self-injury, etc.. It's a degree beyond the person
whose cries of pain are sincere; assistance is what they desperately
need and they work with it. BPD's, conversely, just start the drama
machine up again. What do you think?
2. Have you found compulsive lying to be common? If their fabricated
crisis is convincing enough, the BPD person can get a lot of intense
attention out of it. Any observations on why they do this? I am
thinking of an individual I know offline. I cannot fathom their
behavior anymore. I want to understand it in order to avoid it in the
future.
I find the story of the Indian doctor fascinating. Bad behavior, no
reward, no BPD? I think that's a bit simplistic. OTOH, after
personal experience, I wonder if a dose of "sink or swim" is exactly
what some need! Perhaps there's a difference between painful
personality disorder and those who simply need to give up
attention-seeking from earlier years.
Thanks for reading and replying if you choose to.
--
I've always loved me, I was just taught that I didn't.
- %
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| User: "LittleBrownFish" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
13 Dec 2005 04:52:39 PM |
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I have a couple of questions. (Everyone else, please read this
carefully before you flame. It's NOT about anyone on ASD!!!)
1. Do you think a label such as BPD gives some individuals, whose
fundamental problem is refusal to mature, license to continue childish
behavior? IMO, many severe borderlines are ridiculously infantile.
They are usually intelligent and spend a great deal of time learning
new and increasingly dangerous ways to draw attention to themselves.
Hmmm...I had better be careful with my wording here.
For one, I don't think BLPDs refuse to mature, in the same way that a
teenager doesn't refuse to mature. It just happens when it happens.
One thing I have noticed with most (actually, all) PDs (not just
border-lines) is that they have a late maturation age. It seems to
happen to them at least beyond the age of 30. Having said this, I know
a woman who is 46 and still acting out as though she was 12. Sigh.
Yes, there is the risk that the label will give a licence to behave a
certain way, and BLPDs seem more ready to adopt the sick role than a
lot of folks, so yes, the risk is there.
It's such a shame that the very behaviours that these people exhibit
are to gain attention, but all it ultimately ends up doing is forcing
people away :( thus reinforcing the whole negative cycling of
behaviours, feelings of abandonment and want/need of attention.
2. Have you found compulsive lying to be common? If their fabricated
crisis is convincing enough, the BPD person can get a lot of intense
attention out of it. Any observations on why they do this? I am
thinking of an individual I know offline. I cannot fathom their
behavior anymore. I want to understand it in order to avoid it in the
future.
Compulsive lying can be commonplace for a BLPD. It's an
attention-getter, right? All attention's good attention for a
border-line. And BLPDs need/want more attention than most other people.
I can only imagine that they are in some ways, addicted to attention,
if that's possible.
I find the story of the Indian doctor fascinating. Bad behavior, no
reward, no BPD? I think that's a bit simplistic. OTOH, after
personal experience, I wonder if a dose of "sink or swim" is exactly
what some need! Perhaps there's a difference between painful
personality disorder and those who simply need to give up
attention-seeking from earlier years.
Yes, it is simplistic, isn't it? And I was really shocked when he said
it. Especially when I asked how things differed in India and he replied
that Indian families will just be giving the person a slap! And if the
behaviour persists, the person just ends up in the gutter. Isn't it. He
wasn't being provocatve, he was just telling me how it is out there.
I've looked up figures for world-wide statistics on BLPD diagnosis, and
diagnosis rate seems to be the same throughout the world. These figures
confused me, and on further investigation, I found that the figures
didn't say for how long each individual continued to display their
behaviour for. So the statistics meant nothing really. All they tell
you is how many diagnoses have been made ever and nothing about
recovery rates or behaviour change due to cultural/social/political
reasons. IMHO.
Regards
LBF
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| User: "Contrarian" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:47:12 PM |
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Jane <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Not I but I've know ppl with it I think. One
was eerily insightful sometimes. Here's a start:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is one of the most controversial
diagnoses www.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.html
Psychiatry & Psychotherapy. Borderline Personality Disorder.
www.stanford.edu/~corelli/borderline.html
Borderline Personality Disorder: Raising Questions, Finding Answers
www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html
BPD Central - borderline personality disorder - books, cds, info ...
www.bpdcentral.com
www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/main.shtml
--
but the edge is still Out there. Or maybe it's In... HST (1967)
when i got to the edge , i built a deck % (2005)
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| User: "Dr. Siddhartha Vicious" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:59:52 AM |
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x-no-archive:yes
One of my late mentors once mentioned that one way to know you're dealing
with a borderline is if after spending time with the person you feel as if
you are going completely insane. I dated a borderline for a while...and once
we broke up, I felt remarkably sane again. Fancy that.
--
Proud member of the reality-based community
"Contrarian" <adrba65@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kh7nf.56672$Tf5.14801@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Jane <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Not I but I've know ppl with it I think. One
was eerily insightful sometimes. Here's a start:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is one of the most controversial
diagnoses www.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.html
Psychiatry & Psychotherapy. Borderline Personality Disorder.
www.stanford.edu/~corelli/borderline.html
Borderline Personality Disorder: Raising Questions, Finding Answers
www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html
BPD Central - borderline personality disorder - books, cds, info ...
www.bpdcentral.com
www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/main.shtml
--
but the edge is still Out there. Or maybe it's In... HST (1967)
when i got to the edge , i built a deck % (2005)
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| User: "electro" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 01:15:44 AM |
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"Dr. Siddhartha Vicious" <bokonon@ptsi.net> wrote in message
news:404ljfF18ssb8U1@individual.net...
x-no-archive:yes
One of my late mentors once mentioned that one way to know you're dealing
with a borderline is if after spending time with the person you feel as if
you are going completely insane. I dated a borderline for a while...and
once
we broke up, I felt remarkably sane again. Fancy that.
tell me about it..
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| User: "yuluwirri" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 04:04:16 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:59:52 -0600, "Dr. Siddhartha Vicious"
<bokonon@ptsi.net> wrote:
One of my late mentors once mentioned that one way to know you're dealing
with a borderline is if after spending time with the person you feel as if
you are going completely insane. I dated a borderline for a while...and once
we broke up, I felt remarkably sane again. Fancy that.
Yeah but that's unfair Dr Sid. I can remember reading where doctors
would make fun of the people with BPD and it really hurt. I spoke to
my shrink about the rumours and comments made about BPD'ers and he
admits that there is a belief that the people with these disorders are
notoriously hard to treat, however there are also those amongst the
therapists who have great compassion and are able to deal with the
intensities of therapy with these patients. These people are amongst
the most damaged as you know, and it really isn't their fault that
they are so unwell.
--
yuluwirri
~~~~~~~
Fish know.
~~~~~~~
yuluwirri@hotmail.com
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| User: "LittleBrownFish" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
13 Dec 2005 04:42:15 AM |
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"These people are amongst
the most damaged as you know, and it really isn't their fault that
they are so unwell. "
I agree. We all have a personality, and didn't ask to be "built" that
way....(although a personality disorder IS NOT an illness. It's
important to know that)
HOWEVER, all of us of average intellect and above have the ability and
choice to spot flaws in our character (and I guess I would say that a
flaw is something that keeps causing a problem for the individual, or
others around them), then to choose to do something about it, with or
without a therapist. It's when a person doesn't see the flaw as a flaw
that no change is likely to occur. Or worse, when a flaw is noticed,
but allowed to go on, or excuses made for it ("it isn't my fault" etc
etc we've all done it, right?!).
This can apply to, for example, smoking cigarettes, having affairs
behind the partner's back, seeking attention in a potentially harmful
way, not managing our anger etc etc.
So whilst I agree with you in essence saying "it's not their fault
they're so unwell" (altho' they're not ill), I do think that it is in
the individual's hands to have to want to make changes, then work at
those changes. Also, I believe that "it's not my fault" type thinking
potentially inhibits change. Maybe turn it into "I didnt ask for this,
but seeing as I've got it, what am I going to do to make the best out
of it?" This re-worked thinking is very empowering to the individual.
I know quite a few BLPDs who have entered into anger management classes
and similar and have come out the other side with a set of tools which
enables them to adjust their responses to certain situations where they
would have previously exploded. Of course, it takes maturity to reach
that stage where one decides enough is enough, I need to change my
life.
Regards
LBF
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| User: "alvintchase" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 03:45:30 PM |
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Jane wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Jane
--
"A friend is a person who knows all there is to know about you
and loves you anyway."
I used to think I might have that, but then I sometimes can picture
myself having just about every disorder known, and unknown... I try not
to label myself to much these days, or at least worry about it too
much... no matter what labels we fit into or labels that are imposed on
us, we are all complex, 3 dimensional people, labels can't define who
we are...
-"Alvintchase"
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| User: "Noon Cat Nick" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 11:48:55 PM |
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Jane wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
My ex-wife has it. If you've got it, you don't have it as bad as her,
from what I can tell.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 04:50:44 AM |
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"Noon Cat Nick" <chatdemidiSPAMBEGONE@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:439D0F47.3090602@hotmail.com...
Jane wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average
symptoms are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
My ex-wife has it. If you've got it, you don't have it as bad as her, from
what I can tell.
Oh that's what Lisa has? I don't feel like I behave remotely like that.
Yet again I only got one side of her, it wasn't pleasant.
Jane
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| User: "Charles" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 11:52:02 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 05:48:55 GMT, Noon Cat Nick
<chatdemidiSPAMBEGONE@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jane wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
My ex-wife has it. If you've got it, you don't have it as bad as her,
from what I can tell.
Nobody had it as bad as her!
<:-)
And I do believe Jane knows who she is.
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| User: "GlennT" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:25:34 PM |
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Jane wrote:
Does anyone here have it? Can you describe to me what the average symptoms
are like in your life? I'm thinking I might have this.
Jane
I only know of one person who had been diagnosed thus and he was
actually pretty weird. He lived in our street and would walk his
wheelbarrow a lot. He wasn't very friendly and would tell the
kids off if he thought they were making too much noise. Our
neighbours knew his mother which is how we got to know the
diagnosis. Apparently he had a job so I guess he was reasonably
functional. OCD (Obsessive Compulsive) seems to be more common
but this is all anecdotal so basically meaningless.
Just my way of saying hi! ;)
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:33:30 PM |
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"GlennT" <askme@noname.com> wrote in message
news:5Z6nf.7543$vH5.377830@news.xtra.co.nz...
Just my way of saying hi! ;)
Hi Glenn, I copied this from a page and you've known me for sometime. I know
I've been abscent but I've posted so much personal stuff about myself, I'd
be curious if you saw "me" in this stuff.
What is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)?
A borderline writes:
"Being a borderline feels like eternal hell. Nothing less. Pain, anger,
confusion, hurt, never knowing how I'm gonna feel from one minute to the
next. Hurting because I hurt those who I love. Feeling misunderstood.
Analyzing everything. Nothing gives me pleasure. Once in a great while I
will get "too happy" and then anxious because of that. Then I self-medicate
with alcohol. Then I physically hurt myself. Then I feel guilty because of
that. Shame. Wanting to die but not being able to kill myself because I'd
feel too much guilt for those I'd hurt, and then feeling angry about that so
I cut myself or O.D. to make all the feelings go away. Stress!"
Therapists use a book called "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual" (DSM) to
make mental health diagnoses. They've outlined nine traits that borderlines
seem to have in common; the presence of five or more of them may indicate
BPD.
However, please note the following:
Everyone has all these traits to a certain extent. Especially teenagers.
These traits must be long-standing (lasting years) and persistent. And they
must be intense.
Be very careful about diagnosing yourself or others. In fact, don't do it.
Top researchers guide patients through several days of testing before they
make a diagnosis. Don't make your own diagnosis on the basis of a WWW site
or a book!
Many people who have BPD also have other concerns, such as depression,
eating disorders, substance abuse - even multiple personality disorder or
attention deficit disorder. It can be difficult to isolate what is BPD and
what might be something else. Again, you need to talk to a qualified
professional.
DSM-IV Definition of BPD
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,
self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood
and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the
following:
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include
suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized
by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is
called "splitting."
Following is a definition of splitting from the book I Hate You, Don't Leave
Me by Jerry Kreisman, M.D. From page 10:
The world of a BP, like that of a child, is split into heroes and villains.
A child emotionally, the BP cannot tolerate human inconsistencies and
ambiguities; he cannot reconcile anther is good and bad qualities into a
constant coherent understanding of another person. At any particular moment,
one is either Good or EVIL. There is no in-between; no gray area....people
are idolized one day; totally devalued and dismissed the next.
Normal people are ambivalent and can experience two contradictory states
atone time; BPs shift back and forth, entirely unaware of one feeling state
while in the other.
When the idealized person finally disappoints (as we all do, sooner or
later) the borderline must drastically restructure his one-dimensional
conceptionalization. Either the idol is banished to the dungeon, or the
borderline banishes himself in other to preserve the all-good image of the
other person.
Splitting is intended to shield the BP from a barrage of contradictory
feelings and images and from the anxiety of trying to reconcile those
images. But splitting often achieves the opposite effect. The frays in the
BP's personality become rips, and the sense of his own identity and the
identity of others shifts even more dramatically and frequently.
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense
of self.
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g.,
spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do
not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating
behavior.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense
episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and
only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness.
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent
displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes
somewhat removed from "reality," whether this be daydreaming, performing
actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on
automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of
"association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one's
identity, with the rest of the world.
There is no "pure" BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the most
common. BPD may coexist with:
Post traumatic stress disorder
Mood disorders
Panic/anxiety disorders
Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have a problem with substance abuse)
Gender identity disorder
Attention deficit disorder
Eating disorders
Multiple personality disorder
Obsessive-compulsive disorder
Statistics about BPD
BPs comprise:
2% of the general population
10% of all mental health outpatients
20% of psychiatric inpatients
75% of those diagnosed are women
75% have been physically or sexually abused
.
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| User: "electro" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 11:18:06 PM |
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I'd been really drawn in and interested by this as well.. .(when it was
originally posted), and cut/pasted emailed some of it to ds' grandmother..
...because I think ds' mother suffers from it. She has all the symptoms (and
acutely) except for the physical self-harm.. ..though she physically harmed
me, which I think counts by proxy.
Her mother agrees.. ..and also thinks that she suffers some
schizoaffective type issues. But ds' mother has refused psych testing
repeatedly, (even when it was presented to her by a child welfare worker, as
an ultimatum about their involvement - when she'd originally run off with
our son), so she's never been diagnosed.
sorry.. ..I'm just babbling. From what I know of you (which, granted, isn't
very much), I doubt you have it. From what I understand, most borderlines
wouldn't be eager to self-diagnose, or admit there is a problem with the
self.. ..especially publicly like you have. I could be completely wrong
however.
how are you doing tonight Jane?
Ty
"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:627nf.51303$i7.46898@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"GlennT" <askme@noname.com> wrote in message
news:5Z6nf.7543$vH5.377830@news.xtra.co.nz...
Just my way of saying hi! ;)
Hi Glenn, I copied this from a page and you've known me for sometime. I
know
I've been abscent but I've posted so much personal stuff about myself, I'd
be curious if you saw "me" in this stuff.
What is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)?
A borderline writes:
"Being a borderline feels like eternal hell. Nothing less. Pain, anger,
confusion, hurt, never knowing how I'm gonna feel from one minute to the
next. Hurting because I hurt those who I love. Feeling misunderstood.
Analyzing everything. Nothing gives me pleasure. Once in a great while I
will get "too happy" and then anxious because of that. Then I
self-medicate
with alcohol. Then I physically hurt myself. Then I feel guilty because of
that. Shame. Wanting to die but not being able to kill myself because I'd
feel too much guilt for those I'd hurt, and then feeling angry about that
so
I cut myself or O.D. to make all the feelings go away. Stress!"
Therapists use a book called "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual" (DSM) to
make mental health diagnoses. They've outlined nine traits that
borderlines
seem to have in common; the presence of five or more of them may indicate
BPD.
However, please note the following:
Everyone has all these traits to a certain extent. Especially teenagers.
These traits must be long-standing (lasting years) and persistent. And
they
must be intense.
Be very careful about diagnosing yourself or others. In fact, don't do it.
Top researchers guide patients through several days of testing before they
make a diagnosis. Don't make your own diagnosis on the basis of a WWW site
or a book!
Many people who have BPD also have other concerns, such as depression,
eating disorders, substance abuse - even multiple personality disorder or
attention deficit disorder. It can be difficult to isolate what is BPD and
what might be something else. Again, you need to talk to a qualified
professional.
DSM-IV Definition of BPD
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,
self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early
adulthood
and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of
the
following:
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not
include
suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships
characterized
by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is
called "splitting."
Following is a definition of splitting from the book I Hate You, Don't
Leave
Me by Jerry Kreisman, M.D. From page 10:
The world of a BP, like that of a child, is split into heroes and
villains.
A child emotionally, the BP cannot tolerate human inconsistencies and
ambiguities; he cannot reconcile anther is good and bad qualities into a
constant coherent understanding of another person. At any particular
moment,
one is either Good or EVIL. There is no in-between; no gray area....people
are idolized one day; totally devalued and dismissed the next.
Normal people are ambivalent and can experience two contradictory states
atone time; BPs shift back and forth, entirely unaware of one feeling
state
while in the other.
When the idealized person finally disappoints (as we all do, sooner or
later) the borderline must drastically restructure his one-dimensional
conceptionalization. Either the idol is banished to the dungeon, or the
borderline banishes himself in other to preserve the all-good image of the
other person.
Splitting is intended to shield the BP from a barrage of contradictory
feelings and images and from the anxiety of trying to reconcile those
images. But splitting often achieves the opposite effect. The frays in the
BP's personality become rips, and the sense of his own identity and the
identity of others shifts even more dramatically and frequently.
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or
sense
of self.
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging
(e.g.,
spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do
not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating
behavior.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense
episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours
and
only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness.
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g.,
frequent
displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative
symptoms.
Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes
somewhat removed from "reality," whether this be daydreaming, performing
actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on
automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of
"association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one's
identity, with the rest of the world.
There is no "pure" BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the
most
common. BPD may coexist with:
Post traumatic stress disorder
Mood disorders
Panic/anxiety disorders
Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have a problem with substance abuse)
Gender identity disorder
Attention deficit disorder
Eating disorders
Multiple personality disorder
Obsessive-compulsive disorder
Statistics about BPD
BPs comprise:
2% of the general population
10% of all mental health outpatients
20% of psychiatric inpatients
75% of those diagnosed are women
75% have been physically or sexually abused
.
|
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 04:49:36 AM |
|
|
"electro" <pewter_toast@NOhotmailSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:iK7nf.95887$Gd6.20375@pd7tw3no...
I'd been really drawn in and interested by this as well.. .(when it was
originally posted), and cut/pasted emailed some of it to ds' grandmother..
..because I think ds' mother suffers from it. She has all the symptoms
(and
acutely) except for the physical self-harm.. ..though she physically
harmed
me, which I think counts by proxy.
Her mother agrees.. ..and also thinks that she suffers some
schizoaffective type issues. But ds' mother has refused psych testing
repeatedly, (even when it was presented to her by a child welfare worker,
as
an ultimatum about their involvement - when she'd originally run off with
our son), so she's never been diagnosed.
sorry.. ..I'm just babbling. From what I know of you (which, granted,
isn't
very much), I doubt you have it. From what I understand, most borderlines
wouldn't be eager to self-diagnose, or admit there is a problem with the
self.. ..especially publicly like you have. I could be completely wrong
however.
how are you doing tonight Jane?
Ty
I was doing ok last night. I guess maybe I was looking to hard at the
characteristics. I do fit most of them. You are correct though about BPD,
their one personality trait is to be in denial. I've never denied my
illness. As far as admitting I have a problem publicly? This doesn't feel
like public. You are probably correct, it was just so eerie in a way.
Jane
.
|
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| User: "electro" |
|
| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 09:55:25 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Jycnf.51390$i7.3299@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
I was doing ok last night. I guess maybe I was looking to hard at the
characteristics. I do fit most of them. You are correct though about
BPD,
their one personality trait is to be in denial. I've never denied my
illness. As far as admitting I have a problem publicly? This doesn't
feel
like public. You are probably correct, it was just so eerie in a way.
Jane
the thing is, I fit a lot of those characteristics too.. ..the biggest
indicator is when all of those traits are *acute*, and ongoing. My ex was
extremely difficult to be around, because there was always some kind of
drama/chaos being created out of nothing. I remember this one time, I was
sleeping over at her place, after a night of little incidence, (I had a
final exam the next day, she was staying up all night cleaning). Several
times after I'd fallen asleep, she came into the room, turned the light full
on, and banged around in the closet loudly. After about the thrid time
doing this.. ..I rolled over and lightly moaned her name out, deflatedly.
She immediately jumped down my throat and began berating me up and down
(*loudly*) for being "just like her father" who she had to tip-toe around,
and how abusive he was, and therefore, how abusive/touchy/etc I was. I
meekly told her to just leave me alone, so I could sleep, (as I was really
just exhausted), I rolled over and pulled the blanket over my head.. ..but
she wouldn't have it. I ended up having to get out of bed, get dressed, and
walk 6 blocks home in the middle of the night in sub-zero weather.. .because
she just wouldn't let it go. I silently did this (got up and left) while
she screamed accusations at my back.. ..then she chased me down to plead
with me not to leave.. ..and then ultimately told me it was "over" when I
didn't respond.
This is just an (mild) example of what it's like to be around.. ..there
are definitely worse times.. ..I think I've repressed a lot of the
memories..
I really gotta wonder what the hell is wrong with *me*, that I put up with
that ***** for so long.
Ty
.
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 11:59:38 AM |
|
|
electro wrote:
the thing is, I fit a lot of those characteristics too.. ..the biggest
indicator is when all of those traits are *acute*, and ongoing. My ex was
extremely difficult to be around, because there was always some kind of
drama/chaos being created out of nothing. I remember this one time, I was
sleeping over at her place, after a night of little incidence, (I had a
final exam the next day, she was staying up all night cleaning). Several
times after I'd fallen asleep, she came into the room, turned the light full
on, and banged around in the closet loudly. After about the thrid time
doing this.. ..I rolled over and lightly moaned her name out, deflatedly.
She immediately jumped down my throat and began berating me up and down
(*loudly*) for being "just like her father" who she had to tip-toe around,
and how abusive he was, and therefore, how abusive/touchy/etc I was. I
meekly told her to just leave me alone, so I could sleep, (as I was really
just exhausted), I rolled over and pulled the blanket over my head.. ..but
she wouldn't have it. I ended up having to get out of bed, get dressed, and
walk 6 blocks home in the middle of the night in sub-zero weather.. .because
she just wouldn't let it go. I silently did this (got up and left) while
she screamed accusations at my back.. ..then she chased me down to plead
with me not to leave.. ..and then ultimately told me it was "over" when I
didn't respond.
This is just an (mild) example of what it's like to be around.. ..there
are definitely worse times.. ..I think I've repressed a lot of the
memories..
I really gotta wonder what the hell is wrong with *me*, that I put up with
that ***** for so long.
Ty
Yeah the more I hear and read about it the more I don't think it is me.
I mean yes I resemble BPD but not to those extremes.
As far as putting up with it? Well we all put up with stuff for one
reason or another. I stayed married to a man who had 6 affairs...
It's learning from that experience is what is important.
Jane
.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:41:42 PM |
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OMG this is me! I found another reference and sure as *****, they could have
been recording my life, check this out.
http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/mediakit/definition.shtml
.
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| User: "GlennT" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:54:24 PM |
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Jane wrote:
OMG this is me! I found another reference and sure as *****, they could have
been recording my life, check this out.
http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/mediakit/definition.shtml
Interesting. I think this indicates it might be worth checking
out. I wouldn't be too hasty with a conclusion. Those symptoms
are pretty damn all encompassing.
.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
11 Dec 2005 10:59:02 PM |
|
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"GlennT" <askme@noname.com> wrote in message
news:7o7nf.7559$vH5.378372@news.xtra.co.nz...
Jane wrote:
OMG this is me! I found another reference and sure as *****, they could
have been recording my life, check this out.
http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/mediakit/definition.shtml
Interesting. I think this indicates it might be worth checking out. I
wouldn't be too hasty with a conclusion. Those symptoms are pretty damn
all encompassing.
Very true, but it was just so shocking to read my life and my behavior on a
web site. Jeez I don't remember who it was, either Rhiannon or w2b who
asked me a while back if I had Borderline Personality Disorder. I didn't
think about it until tonight, feeling shitty, thought I'd look it up and see
what it was about. I feel almost sick to my stomach while reading it. My
new health insurance is suppose to be starting after the new year. I think
I'll dive into this. Guess a little therapy might be a good thing. I mean
I don't have as many crashes and hypomanic episodes off the meds, it could
be I was misdiagnosed? Who knows but I want to know.
Jane
.
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| User: "Rhiannon" |
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| Title: Re: Borderline Personality Disorder |
12 Dec 2005 12:49:59 PM |
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"Jane" <jarsenal66nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3q7nf.51314$i7.9070@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Very true, but it was just so shocking to read my life and my behavior on
a
web site. Jeez I don't remember who it was, either Rhiannon or w2b who
asked me a while back if I had Borderline Personality Disorder.
I asked you if you dwell in the past a lot but not if you have Borderline.
You have always fit the criteria for Bipolar Disorder. At least from what
you have told me and from what I have observed from your posts. OTOH the
description you listed sounds a lot like BD too so it is possible you were
misdiagnosed. You might want to investigate it further.
--
Rhiannon
rhianon@sympatico.ca
The Labyrinth
http://thelabyrinthofr.blogspot.com
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