| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Franz Bestuchev" |
| Date: |
24 Sep 2005 11:41:11 PM |
| Object: |
British speak |
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
--
I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space,
were it not that I have had dreams.
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| User: "Contrarian" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 01:25:14 AM |
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Franz Bestuchev <franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Numerous regional dialects, more pronounced than in the .us
Then there's the class thing.
Are they just screwing with me?
No. Maybe with each other sometimes.
--
but the edge is still Out there. Or maybe it's In... HST (1967)
when i got to the edge , i built a deck % (2005)
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| User: "Franz Bestuchev" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:20:16 PM |
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"Contrarian" <adrba65@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eprZe.36304$Tf5.15719@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Franz Bestuchev <franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some
who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect?
Numerous regional dialects, more pronounced than in the .us
That's one thing I don't get. How can you live in such a small area and
maintain that level of regional distinction.
Then there's the class thing.
Again, why would there still be an "upper class" kind of accent.
Are they just screwing with me?
No. Maybe with each other sometimes.
No, I personally offended the Queen...that's why I think they have it out
for me. We were eating nachos and I was telling her to put jalapeno peppers
in them and she refused, so I put one in while she wasn't looking. MI5 has
been riding my ***** about it ever since.
--
but the edge is still Out there. Or maybe it's In... HST (1967)
when i got to the edge , i built a deck % (2005)
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| User: "Teilhard Knight" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:36:25 AM |
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Franz Bestuchev wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and
some who sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect? Are they just screwing with me?
American English is a regional dialect. You speak *English*, not American,
and you should bear that in mind. For a discussion of regional dialects
refer yourself to Neo, he knows all about them.
--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial
I'm not screwed up................It's all in my mind.
Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox
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| User: "Franz Bestuchev" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:14:41 PM |
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"Teilhard Knight" <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3pmrarFb65b5U1@individual.net...
Franz Bestuchev wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and
some who sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect? Are they just screwing with me?
American English is a regional dialect. You speak *English*, not American,
and you should bear that in mind. For a discussion of regional dialects
refer yourself to Neo, he knows all about them.
Well, the thing is I do speak english...but I know the regional accents.
That's what I don't know about British english.
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| User: "Teilhard Knight" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:44:30 PM |
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Franz Bestuchev wrote:
"Teilhard Knight" <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3pmrarFb65b5U1@individual.net...
Franz Bestuchev wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and
some who sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect? Are they just screwing with me?
American English is a regional dialect. You speak *English*, not
American, and you should bear that in mind. For a discussion of
regional dialects refer yourself to Neo, he knows all about them.
Well, the thing is I do speak english...but I know the regional
accents. That's what I don't know about British english.
You might be right there. Personally I find hard to understand you
sometimes. You use a lot of slang and the way you structure the language is
difficult for me.
--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial
I'm not screwed up................It's all in my mind.
Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox
.
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| User: "Alan Harding" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
26 Sep 2005 04:18:34 PM |
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In message <3pmo35Fb70atU1@individual.net>, Franz Bestuchev
<franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> writes
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
Yes, yes, yes, no. There's also accent to be considered.
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 11:06:18 AM |
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On 2005-09-25, Franz Bestuchev <franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
Tufty is a glove puppet who never speaks, so I don't know what that sounds
like ;))
Apart from the indigenous languages (Cornish, Welsh, Irish Gaelic, Manx
Gaelic, Scots Gaelic, Norman-French, English, Scots, BSL) there are
regional dialects and accents too numerous to count. Then there are the
'class' variations, and 'jargons', and 'slang'. Even when speaking
'standard English' some British people find it difficult to understand each
other.
Outside London and the 'Home Counties', where you might encounter more than
300 languages let alone all regional varieties of English, a keen ear can
discern a person's antecedents with sometimes remarkable precision. When
Professor Higgins (in 'My Fair Lady' or 'Pygmalion') pinpoints someones
birth place and mother's birth place and the school they went to and which
London street they now live in and what they do for work, he was not
exaggerating greatly.
Imagine Boston, Charleston, and San Antonio, all cheek by jowel on
Manhatten Island, with Harvard and Jamaica just across the bridge.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Teilhard Knight" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:34:26 PM |
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Whiskers wrote:
On 2005-09-25, Franz Bestuchev <franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and
some who sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect? Are they just screwing with me?
Tufty is a glove puppet who never speaks, so I don't know what that
sounds like ;))
Apart from the indigenous languages (Cornish, Welsh, Irish Gaelic,
Manx Gaelic, Scots Gaelic, Norman-French, English, Scots, BSL) there
are regional dialects and accents too numerous to count. Then there
are the 'class' variations, and 'jargons', and 'slang'. Even when
speaking 'standard English' some British people find it difficult to
understand each other.
Outside London and the 'Home Counties', where you might encounter
more than 300 languages let alone all regional varieties of English,
a keen ear can discern a person's antecedents with sometimes
remarkable precision. When Professor Higgins (in 'My Fair Lady' or
'Pygmalion') pinpoints someones birth place and mother's birth place
and the school they went to and which London street they now live in
and what they do for work, he was not exaggerating greatly.
Imagine Boston, Charleston, and San Antonio, all cheek by jowel on
Manhatten Island, with Harvard and Jamaica just across the bridge.
Yes that's right. I had a hard time understanding lower class people in
Britain. We do not have that problem in Mexico where the Spanish we speak is
homogeneous in a great deal. One can always understand each other regardless
the part of the country we are from. And I must say, it is the same in all
Latin America. I can understand perfectly a South or Central American. We
have sometimes different terms for things, but I think that's inevitable.
But as Neo says sometimes we have problems understanding someone from the
peninsula. When one watches Spanish TV shows sometimes we understand
nothing.
--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial
I'm not screwed up................It's all in my mind.
Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox
.
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
26 Sep 2005 01:06:57 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Teilhard Knight scripsit:
Yes that's right. I had a hard time understanding lower class people in
Britain. We do not have that problem in Mexico where the Spanish we speak is
homogeneous in a great deal. One can always understand each other regardless
the part of the country we are from. And I must say, it is the same in all
Latin America. I can understand perfectly a South or Central American. We
have sometimes different terms for things, but I think that's inevitable.
You mean you understand Caribbean "Spanish" OK, with all that obscure
slang
plus the lack of word endings? ;-)
But as Neo says sometimes we have problems understanding someone from the
peninsula. When one watches Spanish TV shows sometimes we understand
nothing.
Please don't tell me you people watch our TV over there. It's not that
it's awful, it's
that it's awful AND harmful to your neurons. Stop it, before it's too
late. Don't go
the way of the French and Belgians (some people I talked to told me
they see
our series over there - and they insisted that their own TV isn't any
better. Now
THAT's scary. Quo vadis, Europa?).
Traditionally, TV here used "standard Spain Spanish", which isn't at
all what
everybody speaks. Now you see more regional accents, but in a
controlled
fashion. As in Britain, you can tell which region, province, city,
social status
and sometimes even neighbourhood a person is from, which isn't
necessarily
something you might want on TV/radio, hence the "neutral" (to our ears,
probably heavily accented to yours) accent used by most news anchors
and the like.
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| User: "Teilhard Knight" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
26 Sep 2005 01:55:47 AM |
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neoholistic wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Teilhard Knight scripsit:
Yes that's right. I had a hard time understanding lower class people
in Britain. We do not have that problem in Mexico where the Spanish
we speak is homogeneous in a great deal. One can always understand
each other regardless the part of the country we are from. And I
must say, it is the same in all Latin America. I can understand
perfectly a South or Central American. We have sometimes different
terms for things, but I think that's inevitable.
You mean you understand Caribbean "Spanish" OK, with all that obscure
slang
plus the lack of word endings? ;-)
Actually I do not have much experience with Caribbean Spanish. Never had a
friend or acquaintance from there, but the people from there who come to
here we can understand fairly well. Maybe they polish their Spanish maybe
they speak like that, I do not know. We make jokes about Cubans and not much
about Puerto Ricans who are a bunch apart in the hearts of Latin Americans.
But as Neo says sometimes we have problems understanding someone
from the peninsula. When one watches Spanish TV shows sometimes we
understand nothing.
Please don't tell me you people watch our TV over there. It's not that
it's awful, it's
that it's awful AND harmful to your neurons. Stop it, before it's too
late. Don't go
the way of the French and Belgians (some people I talked to told me
they see
our series over there - and they insisted that their own TV isn't any
better. Now
THAT's scary. Quo vadis, Europa?).
Traditionally, TV here used "standard Spain Spanish", which isn't at
all what
everybody speaks. Now you see more regional accents, but in a
controlled
fashion. As in Britain, you can tell which region, province, city,
social status
and sometimes even neighbourhood a person is from, which isn't
necessarily
something you might want on TV/radio, hence the "neutral" (to our
ears, probably heavily accented to yours) accent used by most news
anchors and the like.
We have Spanish TV by cable or other means like satellite. My partner and I
used to watch an Spanish TV show about jokes. There were some people in the
show who were like big containers of jokes and never repeated one. But we
soon got tired of it because most of the cases we missed the joke by the way
the person telling it spoke. It was hard for me to accept that people could
understand each other with those sounds. Spanish news were good, though.
--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial
I'm not screwed up................It's all in my mind.
Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 03:44:22 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:41:11 -0600, "Franz Bestuchev"
<franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
That reminds me of a Scottish movie I watched a while back. They were
speaking English, but the movie had to be subtitled to understand it.
--
BAROMETER, n. An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of
weather we are having.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 05:22:11 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Franz Bestichev scripsit:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some who
sound all tufty?
(What does "tufty" mean in this context?)
This summer I got sick while visiting my mother. She's now living in a
rural town,
which lacks a hospital, so they took me to the closest one, in...
another rural
town. I only spent there some hours, thankfully. I could hardly
understand some
of the people there - and nothing at all of what was said on the PA
(the fact
that they all shouted instead of speaking didn't help).
Mind you, this town is only some 30 km from Seville, and already the
dialect
shift is significant (Seville-speak is as aberrant as anywhere in
southern
Spain, but it's at least intellegible for the most part. Except when it
isn't).
Now, take this group of villages, distant only some 20 km from each
other
(one of them is where my father's family is from). People from any of
them
don't always understand those from the next village. And when I say
"don't
understand", I mean not a damn word (this phenomenon is mostly limited
to the speech of old people though).
I understand this happens all over Europe, even in this global age.
It's the
USA which is exceptional in this regard.
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
All of the above in differing proportions ;P
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| User: "Franz Bestuchev" |
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| Title: Re: British speak |
25 Sep 2005 12:26:07 PM |
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"neoholistic" <neoholistic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127643731.078158.163010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
x-no-archive: yes
Franz Bestichev scripsit:
What's the deal with some British people who I can't understand and some
who
sound all tufty?
(What does "tufty" mean in this context?)
Dunno, made it up. It just seemed like the best made up word to describe the
"fancier" kind of accent...
This summer I got sick while visiting my mother. She's now living in a
rural town,
which lacks a hospital, so they took me to the closest one, in...
another rural
town. I only spent there some hours, thankfully. I could hardly
understand some
of the people there - and nothing at all of what was said on the PA
(the fact
that they all shouted instead of speaking didn't help).
My favorite is the bus drivers here announcing the stops with heavy
breathing and mumbling. You aren't getting off at the proper stop if you
rely on that.
Mind you, this town is only some 30 km from Seville, and already the
dialect
shift is significant (Seville-speak is as aberrant as anywhere in
southern
Spain, but it's at least intellegible for the most part. Except when it
isn't).
Now, take this group of villages, distant only some 20 km from each
other
(one of them is where my father's family is from). People from any of
them
don't always understand those from the next village. And when I say
"don't
understand", I mean not a damn word (this phenomenon is mostly limited
to the speech of old people though).
I understand this happens all over Europe, even in this global age.
It's the
USA which is exceptional in this regard.
I suppose so. I've always suspected that television is what brought about
such homogenous accents. It could also be related to how much americans move
around the country. Live in the north-west for a while, move to Montana,
then to Ohio, to S. California...
Is there a middle ground? Is it a socio-economic thing? A regional
dialect?
Are they just screwing with me?
All of the above in differing proportions ;P
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