Bullies



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Topic: Sociology > Depression
User: "Ilya Shambat"
Date: 30 Aug 2003 06:10:19 PM
Object: Bullies
There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,
whether they be in leadership positions or simply interspersed in
society, harm people who are in any way at their mercy. You see a
heckler at an arts event, and you know a bully. You see a ganglord or
a warlord or a right-wing pundit shouting about other people's
misbehavior, and you know a bully as well.
The bully is the enemy of the artist. The bully attacks spontaneity,
creativity, and softness in people. Above all, the bully attacks -
sincerity. The bully attacks people for the essence of who they are.
Unable to have honesty, sincerity, and creative sharing, the world
with the bully in it becomes the world in which people are guarded,
hateful, mistrustful, fearful, silent and prevented from living a life
worthy of living. The world with the bully in it becomes the world of
people frustrated, put in boxes and afraid to blossom.
There are several bullies I've dealt with on the Internet. They
include PisaCake on alt.abuse.recovery, Robert St. James on
rec.arts.poems, and Gordon Roy Parker on alt.romance. I've also dealt
with several bullies in the lives of women I loved. In every case I
find the bully to fancy himself as having a claim on reality above
that of other people, which leads him to believe that he has a right
to attack their minds. The bully sows self-doubt, unjustified guilt,
sense of weakness. The bully basically tries to nullify the other
person.
Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values. That is
because in these they find justification for not honoring people's
humanity. The person who shows sincerity and sensitivity is, to the
bully, the danger to the lie he wants people to live by - the lie of
their disconnectedness, loneliness and alienation. Whether through the
ridiculous notion of righteousness without love and grace, or through
equally ridiculous notion of realism without acknowledging the reality
of people's creative will and intelligence, or through the still more
ridiculous notion of "sanity" without knowledge or compassion, the
bully attacks everything that has spark of beauty and truth.
Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand. The bully demands that most people be wretched. He
justifies this by claiming intellectual, moral or patriotic
superiority. In all cases, it is a reflection of the moral degeneracy
of his basic nature - for the vileness and ugliness at his core.
The bully thrives on misanthropy and despair. The bully, indeed, sows
such worldviews and attacks those who dare to hope and to live and to
have joy. The bully may say that life is cruel or unfair, nevermind
that life is what we make of it. Or the bully may say that human
nature is sin, nevermind that in doing so he is speaking about his
own.
The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber. So is the
American who wants the woman to stay with a man who beats her or the
Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference. The bully is the enemy of creativity, and as such the
enemy of joy, of happiness, and of progress - of everything, indeed,
that makes the world a place worthy of habitation. The prevalence of
doomsday predictions among the bullies is great indeed, for these are
the people who do not understand and attack wherever they see the
thing that allows humanity to thrive - human creative will, curiosity,
and intelligence.
Fighting bullies is not a matter of personal agenda. It is a matter of
fighting for a world worthy of human habitation. It is a matter of
fighting against that which prevents blossoming, sincerity and
intellectual sharing from taking place. It is a matter of honor and a
matter of love.
.

User: "Doug Bashford"

Title: Re: Bullies 03 Sep 2003 10:46:35 PM
On 30 Aug(Ilya Shambat) wrote

- There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
- live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
- existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
- satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,

Great great post!
I'm thinking of reposting it to *.politics.
Do ya mind?
--Doug
.

User: "Me"

Title: Re: Bullies 30 Aug 2003 06:29:25 PM
"Ilya Shambat" <ishambat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence

Bad poets?
.
User: "Dennis M. Hammes"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 06:39:15 AM
Me wrote:


"Ilya Shambat" <ishambat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence


Bad poets?

STARVING BABIES!!
--
------(m+
~/:o)_|
Keep the gene pool clean.
Your kids have to swim in it.
http://scrawlmark.org
.

User: "Rik Roots"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 05:56:04 AM
Me wrote:


"Ilya Shambat" <ishambat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence


Bad poets?

Shooting bad poets
Rik, knee deep.
--
http://www.kalieda.org/clot/clot.php
Clot: the searchable poetry magazine listing service
.


User: "Chuck Lysaght"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 06:33:57 AM
(Ilya Shambat) wrote in message news:<6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com>...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,
whether they be in leadership positions or simply interspersed in
society, harm people who are in any way at their mercy. You see a
heckler at an arts event, and you know a bully. You see a ganglord or
a warlord or a right-wing pundit shouting about other people's
misbehavior, and you know a bully as well.

The bully is the enemy of the artist. The bully attacks spontaneity,
creativity, and softness in people. Above all, the bully attacks -
sincerity. The bully attacks people for the essence of who they are.
Unable to have honesty, sincerity, and creative sharing, the world
with the bully in it becomes the world in which people are guarded,
hateful, mistrustful, fearful, silent and prevented from living a life
worthy of living. The world with the bully in it becomes the world of
people frustrated, put in boxes and afraid to blossom.

There are several bullies I've dealt with on the Internet. They
include PisaCake on alt.abuse.recovery, Robert St. James on
rec.arts.poems, and Gordon Roy Parker on alt.romance. I've also dealt
with several bullies in the lives of women I loved. In every case I
find the bully to fancy himself as having a claim on reality above
that of other people, which leads him to believe that he has a right
to attack their minds. The bully sows self-doubt, unjustified guilt,
sense of weakness. The bully basically tries to nullify the other
person.

Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values. That is
because in these they find justification for not honoring people's
humanity. The person who shows sincerity and sensitivity is, to the
bully, the danger to the lie he wants people to live by - the lie of
their disconnectedness, loneliness and alienation. Whether through the
ridiculous notion of righteousness without love and grace, or through
equally ridiculous notion of realism without acknowledging the reality
of people's creative will and intelligence, or through the still more
ridiculous notion of "sanity" without knowledge or compassion, the
bully attacks everything that has spark of beauty and truth.

Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand. The bully demands that most people be wretched. He
justifies this by claiming intellectual, moral or patriotic
superiority. In all cases, it is a reflection of the moral degeneracy
of his basic nature - for the vileness and ugliness at his core.

The bully thrives on misanthropy and despair. The bully, indeed, sows
such worldviews and attacks those who dare to hope and to live and to
have joy. The bully may say that life is cruel or unfair, nevermind
that life is what we make of it. Or the bully may say that human
nature is sin, nevermind that in doing so he is speaking about his
own.

The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber. So is the
American who wants the woman to stay with a man who beats her or the
Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference. The bully is the enemy of creativity, and as such the
enemy of joy, of happiness, and of progress - of everything, indeed,
that makes the world a place worthy of habitation. The prevalence of
doomsday predictions among the bullies is great indeed, for these are
the people who do not understand and attack wherever they see the
thing that allows humanity to thrive - human creative will, curiosity,
and intelligence.

Fighting bullies is not a matter of personal agenda. It is a matter of
fighting for a world worthy of human habitation. It is a matter of
fighting against that which prevents blossoming, sincerity and
intellectual sharing from taking place. It is a matter of honor and a
matter of love.

I agree. But in reality, most bullies are scared little children. But
we must fight them, yes. The "bullies" on usenet are nothing more than
names on a computer screen. Ignore them. I, for one, enjoy your
writing. Good luck.
http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html
.
User: "bob"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 02:55:11 PM
(Chuck Lysaght) wrote:

I agree. But in reality, most bullies are scared little children. But
we must fight them, yes. The "bullies" on usenet are nothing more than
names on a computer screen. Ignore them. I, for one, enjoy your
writing. Good luck.

http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html

Umm, Chuck?
Why do you have information about your pistol on your website? Do you
have small hands?
.
User: "tinytim"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 05:50:53 AM
"bob" <thanatos@coldmail.nu> wrote in message
news:tek4lvc935md9d277ii75bmc86ugtrui1d@4ax.com...

chucklysaght@musician.org (Chuck Lysaght) wrote:

I agree. But in reality, most bullies are scared little children. But
we must fight them, yes. The "bullies" on usenet are nothing more than
names on a computer screen. Ignore them. I, for one, enjoy your
writing. Good luck.

http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html


Umm, Chuck?

Why do you have information about your pistol

Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own guns
in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....
Asa
on your website? Do you

have small hands?

.
User: "bob"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 08:09:53 AM
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:50:53 +0000 (UTC), "tinytim"
<athornborough@btinternet.com> wrote:


"bob" <thanatos@coldmail.nu> wrote in message
news:tek4lvc935md9d277ii75bmc86ugtrui1d@4ax.com...

chucklysaght@musician.org (Chuck Lysaght) wrote:

I agree. But in reality, most bullies are scared little children. But
we must fight them, yes. The "bullies" on usenet are nothing more than
names on a computer screen. Ignore them. I, for one, enjoy your
writing. Good luck.

http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html


Umm, Chuck?

Why do you have information about your pistol


Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own guns
in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....

I don't own any but I understand why some people do. It's not an
insecurity issue in most instances. My question was directed towards
Chucky's link to info on his gun on his website.
I don't own a gun because there are too many times I'd shoot myself
with one if I had one.
.

User: "jonah thomas"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 05:57:44 AM
tinytim wrote:

"bob" <thanatos@coldmail.nu> wrote in message

chucklysaght@musician.org (Chuck Lysaght) wrote:

http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html

Umm, Chuck?
Why do you have information about your pistol

Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own guns
in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....

Hey, you don't have to be inadequate to own a gun. (Though it helps.)
Shooting can be just a sport. If somebody plays bridge and has a deck
of cards, would you say "Oh, it must be awful to feel so fucking
insecure that you need to own a deck of cards"? Of course not.
Though you might wonder a little at them if they put information about
their card deck on their website.
.
User: "tinytim"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 06:46:30 AM
"jonah thomas" <j2thomas@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:HCF4b.522$QG5.1944@news.uswest.net...

tinytim wrote:

"bob" <thanatos@coldmail.nu> wrote in message

chucklysaght@musician.org (Chuck Lysaght) wrote:


http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html


Umm, Chuck?


Why do you have information about your pistol


Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own

guns

in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....


Hey, you don't have to be inadequate to own a gun. (Though it helps.)

Shooting can be just a sport. If somebody plays bridge and has a deck
of cards, would you say "Oh, it must be awful to feel so fucking
insecure that you need to own a deck of cards"?

Oh my mistake, I didn't realise you could kill someone with a deck of cards,
nor have I heard the self denece plea either for ownership of cards. I
stand by my origional diagnosis ;-)
I guess you'll wanna keep this going but alas I have to work for a living,
so... byee bye
Asa
Of course not.


Though you might wonder a little at them if they put information about
their card deck on their website.

.
User: "bob"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 08:13:20 AM
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:46:30 +0000 (UTC), "tinytim"
<athornborough@btinternet.com> wrote:


"jonah thomas" <j2thomas@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:HCF4b.522$QG5.1944@news.uswest.net...

tinytim wrote:

"bob" <thanatos@coldmail.nu> wrote in message

chucklysaght@musician.org (Chuck Lysaght) wrote:


http://chucklysaght.envy.nu/MyDailyRant.html


Umm, Chuck?


Why do you have information about your pistol


Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own

guns

in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....


Hey, you don't have to be inadequate to own a gun. (Though it helps.)

Shooting can be just a sport. If somebody plays bridge and has a deck
of cards, would you say "Oh, it must be awful to feel so fucking
insecure that you need to own a deck of cards"?


Oh my mistake, I didn't realise you could kill someone with a deck of cards,

Well, let me help. You could stuff normal cards down someone's throat
until they choked. Metal edged cards could be used to slit someone's
throat.

nor have I heard the self denece plea either for ownership of cards. I
stand by my origional diagnosis ;-)

It's a biased diagnosis. So you are anit-gun. Who gives a crap?

I guess you'll wanna keep this going but alas I have to work for a living,
so... byee bye

heh
.

User: "jonah thomas"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 07:42:18 AM
tinytim wrote:

"jonah thomas" <j2thomas@cavtel.net> wrote

tinytim wrote:

Gosh it must be awful to feel so fucking insecure that you need to own
guns in a civilised first world nation. I sympathise that your such an
inadequate fucker.....

Hey, you don't have to be inadequate to own a gun. (Though it helps.)
Shooting can be just a sport. If somebody plays bridge and has a deck
of cards, would you say "Oh, it must be awful to feel so fucking
insecure that you need to own a deck of cards"?

Oh my mistake, I didn't realise you could kill someone with a deck of cards,
nor have I heard the self denece plea either for ownership of cards. I
stand by my origional diagnosis ;-)

So the point is you can kill somebody with it, and that makes you
inadequate?

I guess you'll wanna keep this going but alas I have to work for a living,
so... byee bye

So, do you drive a car to work? A car you can kill somebody with? I've
seen people put pictures of their cars on websites too.
You might be putting your own ideas into this guy's head. But maybe he
really does feel like he couldn't kill people without a gun, so he does
feel inadequate, while you know you could kill anybody without one so
you feel fully competent and superior. Oh well.
.






User: "Parker_wears_dress"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 03:14:17 AM
(Ilya Shambat) wrote in message news:<6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com>...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,
whether they be in leadership positions or simply interspersed in
society, harm people who are in any way at their mercy. You see a
heckler at an arts event, and you know a bully. You see a ganglord or
a warlord or a right-wing pundit shouting about other people's
misbehavior, and you know a bully as well.

The bully is the enemy of the artist. The bully attacks spontaneity,
creativity, and softness in people. Above all, the bully attacks -
sincerity. The bully attacks people for the essence of who they are.
Unable to have honesty, sincerity, and creative sharing, the world
with the bully in it becomes the world in which people are guarded,
hateful, mistrustful, fearful, silent and prevented from living a life
worthy of living. The world with the bully in it becomes the world of
people frustrated, put in boxes and afraid to blossom.

There are several bullies I've dealt with on the Internet. They
include PisaCake on alt.abuse.recovery, Robert St. James on
rec.arts.poems, and Gordon Roy Parker on alt.romance. I've also dealt
with several bullies in the lives of women I loved. In every case I
find the bully to fancy himself as having a claim on reality above
that of other people, which leads him to believe that he has a right
to attack their minds. The bully sows self-doubt, unjustified guilt,
sense of weakness. The bully basically tries to nullify the other
person.

Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values. That is
because in these they find justification for not honoring people's
humanity. The person who shows sincerity and sensitivity is, to the
bully, the danger to the lie he wants people to live by - the lie of
their disconnectedness, loneliness and alienation. Whether through the
ridiculous notion of righteousness without love and grace, or through
equally ridiculous notion of realism without acknowledging the reality
of people's creative will and intelligence, or through the still more
ridiculous notion of "sanity" without knowledge or compassion, the
bully attacks everything that has spark of beauty and truth.

Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand. The bully demands that most people be wretched. He
justifies this by claiming intellectual, moral or patriotic
superiority. In all cases, it is a reflection of the moral degeneracy
of his basic nature - for the vileness and ugliness at his core.

The bully thrives on misanthropy and despair. The bully, indeed, sows
such worldviews and attacks those who dare to hope and to live and to
have joy. The bully may say that life is cruel or unfair, nevermind
that life is what we make of it. Or the bully may say that human
nature is sin, nevermind that in doing so he is speaking about his
own.

The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber. So is the
American who wants the woman to stay with a man who beats her or the
Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference. The bully is the enemy of creativity, and as such the
enemy of joy, of happiness, and of progress - of everything, indeed,
that makes the world a place worthy of habitation. The prevalence of
doomsday predictions among the bullies is great indeed, for these are
the people who do not understand and attack wherever they see the
thing that allows humanity to thrive - human creative will, curiosity,
and intelligence.

Fighting bullies is not a matter of personal agenda. It is a matter of
fighting for a world worthy of human habitation. It is a matter of
fighting against that which prevents blossoming, sincerity and
intellectual sharing from taking place. It is a matter of honor and a
matter of love.

clinton was an incompetent pervert.
.
User: "Ironywaves"

Title: Re: Bullies 31 Aug 2003 10:53:10 AM
"Parker_wears_dress" <pynn_is_good@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8e3b18f.0308310014.2179acda@posting.google.com...

ishambat@hotmail.com (Ilya Shambat) wrote in message

news:<6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com>...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,
whether they be in leadership positions or simply interspersed in
society, harm people who are in any way at their mercy. You see a
heckler at an arts event, and you know a bully. You see a ganglord or
a warlord or a right-wing pundit shouting about other people's
misbehavior, and you know a bully as well.

The bully is the enemy of the artist. The bully attacks spontaneity,
creativity, and softness in people. Above all, the bully attacks -
sincerity. The bully attacks people for the essence of who they are.
Unable to have honesty, sincerity, and creative sharing, the world
with the bully in it becomes the world in which people are guarded,
hateful, mistrustful, fearful, silent and prevented from living a life
worthy of living. The world with the bully in it becomes the world of
people frustrated, put in boxes and afraid to blossom.

There are several bullies I've dealt with on the Internet. They
include PisaCake on alt.abuse.recovery, Robert St. James on
rec.arts.poems, and Gordon Roy Parker on alt.romance. I've also dealt
with several bullies in the lives of women I loved. In every case I
find the bully to fancy himself as having a claim on reality above
that of other people, which leads him to believe that he has a right
to attack their minds. The bully sows self-doubt, unjustified guilt,
sense of weakness. The bully basically tries to nullify the other
person.

Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values. That is
because in these they find justification for not honoring people's
humanity. The person who shows sincerity and sensitivity is, to the
bully, the danger to the lie he wants people to live by - the lie of
their disconnectedness, loneliness and alienation. Whether through the
ridiculous notion of righteousness without love and grace, or through
equally ridiculous notion of realism without acknowledging the reality
of people's creative will and intelligence, or through the still more
ridiculous notion of "sanity" without knowledge or compassion, the
bully attacks everything that has spark of beauty and truth.

Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand. The bully demands that most people be wretched. He
justifies this by claiming intellectual, moral or patriotic
superiority. In all cases, it is a reflection of the moral degeneracy
of his basic nature - for the vileness and ugliness at his core.

The bully thrives on misanthropy and despair. The bully, indeed, sows
such worldviews and attacks those who dare to hope and to live and to
have joy. The bully may say that life is cruel or unfair, nevermind
that life is what we make of it. Or the bully may say that human
nature is sin, nevermind that in doing so he is speaking about his
own.

The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber. So is the
American who wants the woman to stay with a man who beats her or the
Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference. The bully is the enemy of creativity, and as such the
enemy of joy, of happiness, and of progress - of everything, indeed,
that makes the world a place worthy of habitation. The prevalence of
doomsday predictions among the bullies is great indeed, for these are
the people who do not understand and attack wherever they see the
thing that allows humanity to thrive - human creative will, curiosity,
and intelligence.

Fighting bullies is not a matter of personal agenda. It is a matter of
fighting for a world worthy of human habitation. It is a matter of
fighting against that which prevents blossoming, sincerity and
intellectual sharing from taking place. It is a matter of honor and a
matter of love.


clinton was an incompetent pervert.

You're a Bush fan, I guess?
Will
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 10:12:08 AM
In article <6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com>, Ilya Shambat
says...


There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies.

Economic inequality. Though we can never approach absolute equality, the world
today is becoming increasingly distorted in favor or the super rich, despotic
global mega-corporations, and their lackies.

The bully is the enemy of the artist.

"Art" is a commodity to be sold in the commercial culture. Turn on MTv and see
what passes for "art."

Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values.

Indeed. They are also attracted to all-encompassing authoritarian opinions. They
are intolerant of personal criticism.

Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand.

Whoa there Ilya. Bill Clinton may have given good motive, but he was a centerist
who whored himself out to big business too. The difference between Clinton and
Bush Jr., is that Bush Jr. is a common street crack ***** for special interests.
Clinton at least made his corporate "johns" wear a condom.

The bully demands that most people be wretched.

(Impotence.)

The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber.

No, he's not. For true bullying, try ***** Cheney and the executives of Enron. Or
consider the collective efforts of a whole team of twisted and sadistic men -
those creaps that run Monsanto!

Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference.

See Lenin's NEP. The "commanding heights" can't be left in the hands of the
Halliburtons, Bechtels, Enrons and Monsantos. Nobody should care if you sell
your homegrown pickles at the farmer's market. Do not judge socialism by
deviants like Stalin.
Cat
.
User: "Courageous"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 10:25:36 AM

Do not judge socialism by deviants like Stalin.

In _The Road to Serfdom_, Hayek observed that systems of
centrally concentrated power tend to be ready made for
autocrats to usurp.
In any case, socialism is not _Communism_. Communism is
anti middle class, and against the ownership of private
property. If Marx were alive today, he'd be laughed at for
publishing the _Manifesto_. He'd be considered a crank.
C//
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 09:57:25 PM
In article <77p6lv4is1f52n1qp9vee7280oar8ppf9e@4ax.com>, Courageous says...



Do not judge socialism by deviants like Stalin.


In _The Road to Serfdom_, Hayek observed that systems of
centrally concentrated power tend to be ready made for
autocrats to usurp.

In any case, socialism is not _Communism_. Communism is
anti middle class, and against the ownership of private
property. If Marx were alive today, he'd be laughed at for
publishing the _Manifesto_. He'd be considered a crank.

C//

Just like Hayek and his bizarre little mentor - von Mises. Von Mises freaked out
at a conference in Switzerland and called Milton Friedman a "communist."
Many of Marx's insights are as timely today as they were in the first edition of
Das Kapital. Friedman and Hayek and their ilk embrace an out-moded form of
economic determinism. They are fundamentalists who actually believe that markets
function according to some axiomatic (read metaphysical) law. Even Smith hedged
his bets on abstractions like "the invisible hand." Smith, of course, was the
seminal genius. Marx borrowed many of his ideas directly from Smith.
Cat
.
User: "Doug Bashford"

Title: Re: Bullies 04 Sep 2003 05:50:43 PM
On Tue, 02 Sep
wrote

- Just like Hayek and his bizarre little mentor - von Mises. Von Mises freaked out
- at a conference in Switzerland and called Milton Friedman a "communist."
- Many of Marx's insights are as timely today as they were in the first edition of
- Das Kapital. Friedman and Hayek and their ilk embrace an out-moded form of
- economic determinism. They are fundamentalists who actually believe that markets
- function according to some axiomatic (read metaphysical) law. Even Smith hedged
- his bets on abstractions like "the invisible hand." Smith, of course, was the
- seminal genius. Marx borrowed many of his ideas directly from Smith.
-
- Cat

I've heard damned good arguments that Smith
was (loosly) the firse socialist. The argument
was presented as an econ "test." Chicago school
economists were refusing to take it. <big fat grin>
--Doug
.

User: "Courageous"

Title: Re: Bullies 01 Sep 2003 10:41:16 PM

In _The Road to Serfdom_, Hayek observed that systems of
centrally concentrated power tend to be ready made for
autocrats to usurp.

In any case, socialism is not _Communism_. Communism is
anti middle class, and against the ownership of private
property. If Marx were alive today, he'd be laughed at for
publishing the _Manifesto_. He'd be considered a crank.

Just like Hayek and his bizarre little mentor - von Mises.
Von Mises freaked out at a conference in Switzerland and
called Milton Friedman a "communist."

Friedman appeared not to take this seriously enough to
prevent him from writing the introduction to a reprinting
of an edition of _The Road to Serfdom_.

Many of Marx's insights are as timely today as they were
in the first edition of Das Kapital. Friedman and Hayek
and their ilk embrace an out-moded form of economic determinism.

Communism was dead when it started. Stalin and his ilk tried
to keep it ticking through sheer terror. That's what it took
to keep human beings hooked into to what is otherwise a
a system that they likely will never abide.
C//
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 08:12:03 AM
In article <c548lv8t9n7ctagkm113hoftkjdo2rrvpk@4ax.com>, Courageous says...



In _The Road to Serfdom_, Hayek observed that systems of
centrally concentrated power tend to be ready made for
autocrats to usurp.

In any case, socialism is not _Communism_. Communism is
anti middle class, and against the ownership of private
property. If Marx were alive today, he'd be laughed at for
publishing the _Manifesto_. He'd be considered a crank.


Just like Hayek and his bizarre little mentor - von Mises.
Von Mises freaked out at a conference in Switzerland and
called Milton Friedman a "communist."


Friedman appeared not to take this seriously enough to
prevent him from writing the introduction to a reprinting
of an edition of _The Road to Serfdom_.

Many of Marx's insights are as timely today as they were
in the first edition of Das Kapital. Friedman and Hayek
and their ilk embrace an out-moded form of economic determinism.


Communism was dead when it started. Stalin and his ilk tried
to keep it ticking through sheer terror. That's what it took
to keep human beings hooked into to what is otherwise a
a system that they likely will never abide.

C//

Communism was the antithesis of another failed economic pipe dream - laissez
faire. The NEP might have worked in the long run. But Lenin's death sealed its
fate. Stalin was too brainlessly one dimensional to adjust "the plan". Very much
like our modern "Libertarians", wallowing in the failed determinism of the 19th
century.
But "planned economies" do work. It's working in Europe right now in many
venues. The key seems to be knowing when and where to losen and tighten economic
regulations. "Flexibility."
What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.
This is no longer open to debate. When "Corporations Rule the World", the world
is screwed. Even Smith thought a government run by businessmen was WORSE than a
monarchy!
Cat
"Imperialism is the highest form of capitalism." (V.I. Lenin)
.
User: "Doug Bashford"

Title: Re: Bullies 04 Sep 2003 05:56:51 PM
On Tue, 02 Sep,
wrote about:
Re: Bullies

- But "planned economies" do work. It's working in Europe right now in many
- venues. The key seems to be knowing when and where to losen and tighten economic
- regulations. "Flexibility."
-
- What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
- glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
- free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
- operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
- single-minded pursuit of profits.
-
- This is no longer open to debate. When "Corporations Rule the World", the world
- is screwed. Even Smith thought a government run by businessmen
- was WORSE than a monarchy!

"Fascism should more properly be called
corporatism, since it is the merger
of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

-
- Cat
-
- "Imperialism is the highest form of capitalism." (V.I. Lenin)

** And above all Fascism denies that class-war can
** be the preponderant force in the transformation of
** society....
** --Benito Mussolini, (Fascist dictator), from The
** Internet Modern History Sourcebook
.

User: "Courageous"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 09:52:38 AM

What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.

This is, by and large, intrinsic to their nature. The Executive Officers of
the corporation, plus everyone on staff, really, each have loyalty first and
foremost to the bottom line. Even a small business has more moral accountability
than that, as the small business owner can hold first to some sense of ethics
without believing that in so doing he has a conflict of interest.
This has little to do with the content of _The Communist Manifesto_, however,
in which the essential elements are the removal of the middle class and the
excision of the ownership of all private property.
C//
.
User: "jonah thomas"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 11:21:55 AM
Courageous wrote:

What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.

This is, by and large, intrinsic to their nature. The Executive Officers of
the corporation, plus everyone on staff, really, each have loyalty first and
foremost to the bottom line.

Does this fit your experience? It certainly doesn't fit mine. My
experience has been that everybody on staff tries to look out for
himself. Executives try to improve the business in ways that will
enhance their careers. They try to do things for the company that will
look good on their resumes. Some of them steal from the company when
they think they won't get caught. And they have the option to work
toward the greater good when they think they won't get caught at it.
However, they hypocritically pretend in conversation that the bottom
line is the only thing they care about. They seem to feel that it's
expected of them to pretend that, or at least pay it lip service.
.
User: "Courageous"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 06:40:59 PM

Does this fit your experience?

No, I guess it doesn't. I would have to suppose you are right.
First, self interest, second the bottom line, last: other issues
of ethics, such as whether or not the institution in general is
servicing the public good.
C//
.

User: "CyberDroog"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 12:00:12 PM
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:21:55 -0400, jonah thomas <j2thomas@cavtel.net>
wrote:

Courageous wrote:

This is, by and large, intrinsic to their nature. The Executive Officers of
the corporation, plus everyone on staff, really, each have loyalty first and
foremost to the bottom line.


Does this fit your experience? It certainly doesn't fit mine. My
experience has been that everybody on staff tries to look out for
himself. Executives try to improve the business in ways that will
enhance their careers. They try to do things for the company that will
look good on their resumes. Some of them steal from the company when
they think they won't get caught. And they have the option to work
toward the greater good when they think they won't get caught at it.

This is more like it. Self-interest is always the real bottom line.
---
AMBITION, n. An overmastering desire to be vilified by enemies while living and
made ridiculous by friends when dead.
- Ambrose Bierce
.


User: "CyberDroog"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 11:59:26 AM
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:52:38 GMT, Courageous <jkraska@san.rr.com> wrote:


What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.


This is, by and large, intrinsic to their nature. The Executive Officers of
the corporation, plus everyone on staff, really, each have loyalty first and
foremost to the bottom line. Even a small business has more moral accountability
than that, as the small business owner can hold first to some sense of ethics
without believing that in so doing he has a conflict of interest.

A small businessman has no concern for the bottom line? Rubbish. Every
human being has a concern for the bottom line - even if it comes to their
bottom line being guaranteed by stealing the incomes of others.
---
SELFISH, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bullies 03 Sep 2003 02:57:36 PM
In article <j0j9lv4qr95lhbpp5c2pdl70u6dp0665ot@4ax.com>, CyberDroog says...


On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:52:38 GMT, Courageous <jkraska@san.rr.com> wrote:


What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.


This is, by and large, intrinsic to their nature. The Executive Officers of
the corporation, plus everyone on staff, really, each have loyalty first and
foremost to the bottom line. Even a small business has more moral accountability
than that, as the small business owner can hold first to some sense of ethics
without believing that in so doing he has a conflict of interest.


A small businessman has no concern for the bottom line? Rubbish. Every
human being has a concern for the bottom line - even if it comes to their
bottom line being guaranteed by stealing the incomes of others.

Which is exactly what the poor suffer under the domination of a venal
plutocratic order. For as both Smith and Marx assure us - the true cost of any
commodity is born by the laborer who works to create it. Every subsequent
middleman, marketer, and especially that disreputable crowd of speculators
parasites his bit of that value - won by the sweat and toil of the worker. The
first fruits of every commodity belong, by moral right, to he/she that produces
it by the labor of their own hands.

---
SELFISH, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.

- Ambrose Bierce

Poncho Villa did Bierce a favor by shooting him.
The labor theory of value has a long tradition going back to Marx, Smith,
Ricardo, Locke, and Thomas Aquinas. (See Bertrand Russell's History of
Philosophy, p.635-636.)
Cat
.



User: "CyberDroog"

Title: Re: Bullies 02 Sep 2003 11:57:07 AM
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:12:03 GMT,
wrote:

What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.

This is no longer open to debate. When "Corporations Rule the World", the world
is screwed. Even Smith thought a government run by businessmen was WORSE than a
monarchy!

No longer open to debate? So it's now just a matter of faith. Wonderful.
A deep, inner faith that the soul of man is permanently corrupt?
That's called cynicism.
---
Man is not the creature of circumstances, circumstances are the creatures of
men. We are free agents, and man is more powerful than matter.
- Disraeli, Benjamin
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bullies 03 Sep 2003 02:12:40 PM
In article <3ti9lv00epj9keoquadrkq3v1iuc9ol5qm@4ax.com>, CyberDroog says...


On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:12:03 GMT,

wrote:

What is obvious to even the brainlessly stupid observer (which excludes those
glassy-eyed fanatics at The CATO Institute) is that corporations, completely
free of meaningful regulation, will not regulate themselves. In fact, they will
operate in a moral vacuum, polluting the earth, its people, everything, in the
single-minded pursuit of profits.

This is no longer open to debate. When "Corporations Rule the World", the world
is screwed. Even Smith thought a government run by businessmen was WORSE than a
monarchy!


No longer open to debate? So it's now just a matter of faith. Wonderful.

No, it is a matter of pragmatic experience. We see, both close at hand, and
historically, the spawn of unregulated capitalism. We need to have faith only in
the facts.

A deep, inner faith that the soul of man is permanently corrupt?

That's called cynicism.

And the "greed is good" ethos is the very height of cynicism.
Cat

---
Man is not the creature of circumstances, circumstances are the creatures of
men. We are free agents, and man is more powerful than matter.

- Disraeli, Benjamin

Spoken like a rich man and conservative.
"To many the world is a slum, with the workhouse as an intermediate purgatory
before the grave...Who can hope to make headway against the innumerable adverse
conditions which doom the dweller in Darkest England to eternal and immutable
misery?" (Wm Booth - on the conditions of the laboring poor ing Victorian
[laissez faire] England.)
Cat
.
User: "pink"

Title: Re: Bullies 08 Jan 2004 08:41:06 PM
catbrier@fwiw.com:

And the "greed is good" ethos is the very height of cynicism.

Why?
--
I feel pink.
.








User: "Robert St. James \el corazon del demonio"

Title: Re: Bullies 30 Aug 2003 06:47:54 PM
Is this supposed to be a poem? Because if it is, it sucks big
donkey dicks.
RstJ
alt.support.ilya.12step
"Ilya Shambat" <ishambat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d8c5a02.0308301510.1aa1a24f@posting.google.com...

There is one thing and one thing only that stands between the world we
live in today and a world in which people can live a satisfying
existence, and that is bullies. Bullies are people who derive
satisfaction from keeping other people down. Bullies are people who,
whether they be in leadership positions or simply interspersed in
society, harm people who are in any way at their mercy. You see a
heckler at an arts event, and you know a bully. You see a ganglord or
a warlord or a right-wing pundit shouting about other people's
misbehavior, and you know a bully as well.

The bully is the enemy of the artist. The bully attacks spontaneity,
creativity, and softness in people. Above all, the bully attacks -
sincerity. The bully attacks people for the essence of who they are.
Unable to have honesty, sincerity, and creative sharing, the world
with the bully in it becomes the world in which people are guarded,
hateful, mistrustful, fearful, silent and prevented from living a life
worthy of living. The world with the bully in it becomes the world of
people frustrated, put in boxes and afraid to blossom.

There are several bullies I've dealt with on the Internet. They
include PisaCake on alt.abuse.recovery, Robert St. James on
rec.arts.poems, and Gordon Roy Parker on alt.romance. I've also dealt
with several bullies in the lives of women I loved. In every case I
find the bully to fancy himself as having a claim on reality above
that of other people, which leads him to believe that he has a right
to attack their minds. The bully sows self-doubt, unjustified guilt,
sense of weakness. The bully basically tries to nullify the other
person.

Bullies are attracted to misogyny and traditional values. That is
because in these they find justification for not honoring people's
humanity. The person who shows sincerity and sensitivity is, to the
bully, the danger to the lie he wants people to live by - the lie of
their disconnectedness, loneliness and alienation. Whether through the
ridiculous notion of righteousness without love and grace, or through
equally ridiculous notion of realism without acknowledging the reality
of people's creative will and intelligence, or through the still more
ridiculous notion of "sanity" without knowledge or compassion, the
bully attacks everything that has spark of beauty and truth.

Bullies in America hated Clinton and tried everything in their power
to remove him. That is because Clinton worked for improvement in the
lives of everyone in the world, which is the very thing that the bully
cannot stand. The bully demands that most people be wretched. He
justifies this by claiming intellectual, moral or patriotic
superiority. In all cases, it is a reflection of the moral degeneracy
of his basic nature - for the vileness and ugliness at his core.

The bully thrives on misanthropy and despair. The bully, indeed, sows
such worldviews and attacks those who dare to hope and to live and to
have joy. The bully may say that life is cruel or unfair, nevermind
that life is what we make of it. Or the bully may say that human
nature is sin, nevermind that in doing so he is speaking about his
own.

The Muslim fanatic is a bully of the highest caliber. So is the
American who wants the woman to stay with a man who beats her or the
Communist who cannot conceive of business activity without government
interference. The bully is the enemy of creativity, and as such the
enemy of joy, of happiness, and of progress - of everything, indeed,
that makes the world a place worthy of habitation. The prevalence of
doomsday predictions among the bullies is great indeed, for these are
the people who do not understand and attack wherever they see the
thing that allows humanity to thrive - human creative will, curiosity,
and intelligence.

Fighting bullies is not a matter of personal agenda. It is a matter of
fighting for a world worthy of human habitation. It is a matter of
fighting against that which prevents blossoming, sincerity and
intellectual sharing from taking place. It is a matter of honor and a
matter of love.

.


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