| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"neoholistic" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2004 10:56:27 PM |
| Object: |
Can't sleep |
x-no-archive: yes
Are there Easter holidays were you live?
We have them over here, sort of. Schools and universities close for the week, and thursday and friday are holidays for everybody else as well.
We have a local tradition of supposedly religious celebrations - they lost their religious character long ago, but are kept as a tradition, much like the japanese aren't samurais or shoguns any more yet keep theirs (people might try to force you into believing there's anything religious in our Holy Week celebrations - believe me, I know quite some people that are into them...).
These celebrations involve, among other equally er, exciting, activities, the carrying around of some very heavy, quite baroque looking platforms with rather pathetic looking (but skillfully carved) sculptures depicting scenes of Christ's Passion. It's a show in itself. There are even people wearing purple gowns and cone-shaped hoods. Kind of a kitsch, catholic KKK parade. Nightmarish.
And, for some mysterious reason, they have a very large audience, in situ. Hundreds of thousands of people, no less. As I said, tradition.
They're especially popular in Andalusia, which is one of the countries that make up this multinational thing called collectively "Spain" - namely, the southernmost one. National Geographic, right to a news server near you.
Said platforms are taken out for a little stroll around some streets in the old quarter of our cities.
In Andalusia, that means *old* quarters - with old streets. Which are quite narrow. Barely enough for the platforms to fit (the human tide that accompanies them somehow manages to flow around them, fitting in whatever little space is left).
When the bombs explode, they'll cause a bloodbath.
With so many people in close proximity, the blasts will kill several hundreds directly.
In the chaos of people trying to escape through those narrow, crowded streets, running over each other, smashing and trampling on the other bypassers, the body count will go up to the thousands.
I can hear the screams in my head. And if I close my eyes, I can see the whole scene too. In technicolor.
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
--
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
05 Apr 2004 11:01:06 PM |
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"neoholistic" <ekqbwpo@terra.es> wrote in message
news:LTpcc.4397267$uj6.14299199@telenews.teleline.es...
x-no-archive: yes
Are there Easter holidays were you live?
We have them over here, sort of. Schools and universities close for the
week, and thursday and friday are holidays for everybody else as well.
We have a local tradition of supposedly religious celebrations - they lost
their religious character long ago, but are kept as a tradition, much like
the japanese aren't samurais or shoguns any more yet keep theirs (people
might try to force you into believing there's anything religious in our Holy
Week celebrations - believe me, I know quite some people that are into
them...).
These celebrations involve, among other equally er, exciting, activities,
the carrying around of some very heavy, quite baroque looking platforms with
rather pathetic looking (but skillfully carved) sculptures depicting scenes
of Christ's Passion. It's a show in itself. There are even people wearing
purple gowns and cone-shaped hoods. Kind of a kitsch, catholic KKK parade.
Nightmarish.
And, for some mysterious reason, they have a very large audience, in situ.
Hundreds of thousands of people, no less. As I said, tradition.
They're especially popular in Andalusia, which is one of the countries
that make up this multinational thing called collectively "Spain" - namely,
the southernmost one. National Geographic, right to a news server near you.
Said platforms are taken out for a little stroll around some streets in
the old quarter of our cities.
In Andalusia, that means *old* quarters - with old streets. Which are
quite narrow. Barely enough for the platforms to fit (the human tide that
accompanies them somehow manages to flow around them, fitting in whatever
little space is left).
When the bombs explode, they'll cause a bloodbath.
With so many people in close proximity, the blasts will kill several
hundreds directly.
In the chaos of people trying to escape through those narrow, crowded
streets, running over each other, smashing and trampling on the other
bypassers, the body count will go up to the thousands.
I can hear the screams in my head. And if I close my eyes, I can see the
whole scene too. In technicolor.
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
if you can't sleep , get up
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 11:21:05 AM |
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X-No-Archive: Yes
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:56:27 +0000, neoholistic <ekqbwpo@terra.es> wrote:
snip
I can hear the screams in my head. And if I close my eyes, I can see the
whole scene too. In technicolor.
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
Nightmares usually don't come true. People everywhere are going to be more
vigilant than usual, and a crowd of vigilant people is a lot of eyes and
ears, so the danger is probably not a great deal worse than in the past.
In the UK, we roll cheeses and kick shins and go snorkelling in bogs; not
many idols on parade.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 07:40:37 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Whiskers wrote:
<snip>
Nightmares usually don't come true. People everywhere are going to be more
vigilant than usual, and a crowd of vigilant people is a lot of eyes and
ears, so the danger is probably not a great deal worse than in the past.
The odds against dying in a terrorist attack are neglictible, compared to those of being involved in a car crash, for example.
It makes no sense to live in fear.
And besides we've come to accept terrorism, with ETA and in the past with GRAPO as well.
I was in a fatalistic mood last night, though, induced by an equally fatalistic conversation I had. Anybody who has seen the crowds in the narrow streets of Seville will know what I meant when I said it would be butchery.
But well, if ***** happens, we'll deal with it.
In the UK, we roll cheeses and kick shins and go snorkelling in bogs; not
many idols on parade.
Roll cheeses? You mean, running down a slope or anything?
The idol thing seems to run strong among catholics. If only they knew that the catholic church 'adapted' the old local divinities (mostly godesses)... that's exactly what the romans did, or tried to do.
Heck, all the 'virgins' throughout Spain were formerly iberian godesses of fertility... they've been worshipped for 4000 years or so, under different names. Nowadays they are all called 'Maria' (surname: 'Virgin of <insert your favourite virgin here>').
--
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
07 Apr 2004 09:09:45 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:40:37 +0000, neoholistic <ekqbwpo@terra.es> wrote:
snip
In the UK, we roll cheeses and kick shins and go snorkelling in bogs;
not many idols on parade.
Roll cheeses? You mean, running down a slope or anything?
Yes; steep, uneven, and ideally with a stream or a mud-hole at the bottom.
Serious injuries aren't unknown.
The idol thing seems to run strong among catholics. If only they knew that
the catholic church 'adapted' the old local divinities (mostly
godesses)... that's exactly what the romans did, or tried to do.
The Catholic Church /was/ the Romans, after Constantine. (I'd almost
say, it still is). I suspect that many priests and temples simply
accepted 'new management' and carried on their pagan ways.
Heck, all the 'virgins' throughout Spain were formerly iberian godesses
of fertility... they've been worshipped for 4000 years or so, under
different names. Nowadays they are all called 'Maria' (surname: 'Virgin
of <insert your favourite virgin here>').
Similar things happened all over the Roman Empire. You are sounding
rather like a Protestant ;))
In Britain, we still have pagan customs that make no pretence at being
"Christian". May-day (or thereabouts) is the favoured date, although
Easter and Christmas have quite a few.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
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| User: "Bev Thornton" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
05 Apr 2004 11:07:57 PM |
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neoholistic wrote:
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
Can you get something else on your mind?
--
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
05 Apr 2004 11:12:34 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Bev Thornton wrote:
neoholistic wrote:
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
Can you get something else on your mind?
Trying. It's over six in the moring over here, anyway. There's no point in going back to bed.
I think I'll fix me a cup of coffee. Anyone?
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
05 Apr 2004 11:26:39 PM |
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"neoholistic" <ekqbwpo@terra.es> wrote in message
news:S6qcc.4397474$uj6.14299882@telenews.teleline.es...
x-no-archive: yes
Bev Thornton wrote:
neoholistic wrote:
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
Can you get something else on your mind?
Trying. It's over six in the moring over here, anyway. There's no point in
going back to bed.
I think I'll fix me a cup of coffee. Anyone?
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
hear here
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| User: "Janithor" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 03:23:52 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
neoholistic wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Are there Easter holidays were you live?
We have them over here, sort of. Schools and universities close for the
week, and thursday and friday are holidays for everybody else as well.
We have a local tradition of supposedly religious celebrations - they
lost their religious character long ago, but are kept as a tradition,
much like the japanese aren't samurais or shoguns any more yet keep
theirs (people might try to force you into believing there's anything
religious in our Holy Week celebrations - believe me, I know quite some
people that are into them...).
These celebrations involve, among other equally er, exciting,
activities, the carrying around of some very heavy, quite baroque
looking platforms with rather pathetic looking (but skillfully carved)
sculptures depicting scenes of Christ's Passion. It's a show in itself.
There are even people wearing purple gowns and cone-shaped hoods. Kind
of a kitsch, catholic KKK parade. Nightmarish.
And, for some mysterious reason, they have a very large audience, in
situ. Hundreds of thousands of people, no less. As I said, tradition.
They're especially popular in Andalusia, which is one of the countries
that make up this multinational thing called collectively "Spain" -
namely, the southernmost one. National Geographic, right to a news
server near you.
Said platforms are taken out for a little stroll around some streets in
the old quarter of our cities.
In Andalusia, that means *old* quarters - with old streets. Which are
quite narrow. Barely enough for the platforms to fit (the human tide
that accompanies them somehow manages to flow around them, fitting in
whatever little space is left).
When the bombs explode, they'll cause a bloodbath.
With so many people in close proximity, the blasts will kill several
hundreds directly.
In the chaos of people trying to escape through those narrow, crowded
streets, running over each other, smashing and trampling on the other
bypassers, the body count will go up to the thousands.
I can hear the screams in my head. And if I close my eyes, I can see the
whole scene too. In technicolor.
Which is probably why I can't sleep.
I'll stop being scared to death at dawn, or so I hope.
The irony being the Islamicists think Europe is Christian.
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 03:29:48 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Janithor wrote:
The irony being the Islamicists think Europe is Christian.
Nominally, yes; if you ask people what their religion is, many will answer "catholic". But that's a reflex, after centuries of religious opression. Ask them for example whether they are regular churchgoers. You'd be amazed how non-religious people in this country are (esp the young).
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 03:42:06 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
My post sounded too... well, maybe too over the top.
I had a long and very disturbing conversation with my brother, last night. We both agreed that the likeliness of an attack being attempted during the Eastern celebrations in a city like Seville is very high.
That doesn't sound so bad until you realise that Seville's population nearly doubles during Easter, due to both domestic and international tourism, and that the density of people in the Old City during the celebrations is so high that people can hardly move. Think of sardines in a can.
Same goes for Granada (which is under alert).
If there's an attack it will be a carnage. That certainty has kept me awake all night.
Corollary: don't think dark thoughts before going to sleep.
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
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| User: "Janithor" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 04:12:25 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
neoholistic wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
My post sounded too... well, maybe too over the top.
I had a long and very disturbing conversation with my brother, last
night. We both agreed that the likeliness of an attack being attempted
during the Eastern celebrations in a city like Seville is very high.
That doesn't sound so bad until you realise that Seville's population
nearly doubles during Easter, due to both domestic and international
tourism, and that the density of people in the Old City during the
celebrations is so high that people can hardly move. Think of sardines
in a can.
Same goes for Granada (which is under alert).
If there's an attack it will be a carnage. That certainty has kept me
awake all night.
Corollary: don't think dark thoughts before going to sleep.
Do you normally have problems sleeping, or is it mostly this particular
issue that's keeping you awake?
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 04:26:17 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Janithor wrote:
Do you normally have problems sleeping, or is it mostly this particular
issue that's keeping you awake?
Suffer frequently from insomnia, but I was sleeping OK during the last couple of months or so.
It's the state of alarm we're living these days. We're expecting the new attacks - which are inevitable, as there's so much that the police can do (we don't have a lot of policemen or soldiers to begin with), and also because the timing is just right, with the streets packed with people.
(Also because the ultimatum to pull our troops expired last sunday, so we are now officialy "at war", or at least that's what the last communication said).
Things will calm down a bit when the Holy Week is over.
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
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| User: "Janithor" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 03:39:41 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
neoholistic wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Janithor wrote:
The irony being the Islamicists think Europe is Christian.
Nominally, yes; if you ask people what their religion is, many will
answer "catholic". But that's a reflex, after centuries of religious
opression. Ask them for example whether they are regular churchgoers.
You'd be amazed how non-religious people in this country are (esp the
young).
That's why I say Europe is not Christian. From what I've read, the
churches are empty. Not amazed at all.
It will be really interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years
as more immigrants from Islamic countries continue to pour into Europe,
packing the ghettos with a large class of dispossessed angry young men
and plenty of radical imams to whip them up against the non-believers.
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| User: "neoholistic" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
06 Apr 2004 04:17:24 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Janithor wrote:
It will be really interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years
as more immigrants from Islamic countries continue to pour into Europe,
packing the ghettos with a large class of dispossessed angry young men
and plenty of radical imams to whip them up against the non-believers.
Just a few minutes ago I was watching a talk on TV about this.
Incitation to violence, terrorism, or indeed any kind of crime, is considered unlawful under our penal code. People whipping up the masses to infringe the law must be arrested and trialed.
The ghetto problem must be addressed, too, muslim radicals or not.
I'm not optimistic about that, though.
In the early 60's the rural zones started to empty when people began swarming into the cities. That had a very negative effect on an ethic minority that had lived over here for some 500 years, mostly as nomads in rural areas, the gypsies.
They came to the towns too - to the outskirts, setting down shanty towns.
They never integrated with the rest of us, so they resorted to crime. Which made them be even more rejected by the mainstream population than they were.
Know what the government did? They came up with the worst possible solution: instead of spreading gypsy families around town, locating them inside non-gypsy nuclei so that they would adapt (which as a strategy has proved succesful in several ocassions in the past) they destroyed their shants, and made new blocks, entire neighbourhoods, for them alone (they were given the flats, for free). The result? Ghettos, like the one called "3000 households" in the outskirts of Seville, where not even the police dares to enter.
Remember that I told you that there was still poverty in Spain, and that it was located mostly in small pockets? That's what I was referring to. There's at least one of those in each (medium-sized and up) city.
I certainly hope they find a better solution this time.
--
Please keep the 'x-no-archive: yes' header.
To reach me by email: transform my account name like IBM -> HAL.
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| User: "GlennT" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
08 Apr 2004 02:21:59 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
Janithor wrote:
The irony being the Islamicists think Europe is Christian.
Nominally, yes; if you ask people what their religion is, many will
answer "catholic". But that's a reflex, after centuries of religious
opression. Ask them for example whether they are regular churchgoers.
You'd be amazed how non-religious people in this country are (esp the
young).
That's why I say Europe is not Christian. From what I've read, the
churches are empty. Not amazed at all.
It will be really interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years
as more immigrants from Islamic countries continue to pour into Europe,
packing the ghettos with a large class of dispossessed angry young men
and plenty of radical imams to whip them up against the non-believers.
"Londanistan". Have you heard that expression? It comes from the
amount of disaffected islamic people living in London. Problem is
the British have decades of dealing with the IRA. You have to work
very very hard to be a successful terrorist in Britain these days.
Spain was an easier target, unfortunately for the Spanish.
Terrorists aren't very smart, or that well organized either. Forget
the media, they are idiots who know nothing much at all.
Storm in a tea-cup if you ask me... not that anybody has.
GlennT
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: Can't sleep |
08 Apr 2004 07:44:03 AM |
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:21:59 +1200, GlennT <ask@noname.com> wrote:
snip
"Londanistan". Have you heard that expression? It comes from the amount of
disaffected islamic people living in London. Problem is the British have
decades of dealing with the IRA. You have to work very very hard to be a
successful terrorist in Britain these days. Spain was an easier target,
unfortunately for the Spanish.
I'm not that complacent. Spain has been coping with terrorists just as
long, and with similar success. Sometimes the bombers succeed.
Generally, we don't get to hear of the attacks that were abandoned at
the last minute or the plans that were thwarted; we only know about the
terrorists' successes or near-misses, and some of the police 'finds' of
plotters or bomb-factories.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
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