| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
22 Dec 2007 11:14:03 AM |
| Object: |
Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
I'm running out of excuses to endure this holiday *****, year after
year.
I thought being alone would become easier as I get older. Everywhere I
look, I see what I missed, never had and never will have. It hurts
more as time passes. December is the worst month.
I'm harder, colder and more bitter than I could have imagined ten
years ago. I used to be driven by flashes of hope, whether I made them
up or put faith in what others said. Today, people see an empty lie
and mistake it for character. I have a great public facade, but I am
nearly dead; only my body continues to function.
I've run out of lies but am too stubborn to end my life. I'll summon
the courage at some point, not today, not next month, but I will.
Posting this may be a mistake. I don't want any I-still-like-you's or
do-something-about-it's or fucking rah-rah psychobabble. I need words
on a monitor screen because I'm sick of the noise in my head. I'm out
of energy to fight off RL people who think I'm strong enough to cling
to, or to scream at those who ignore being told I Don't Want You.
(Almost got kicked out of my building last week due to the latter.
Some old, tired, drunk, broken-down ***** in a wheelchair was damn
near stalking me for weeks. I went PTSD on his *****, right in the
lobby. Words only. I never hit first but always hit last. No one here
is stupid enough to touch me.)
This time of year, everything is a reminder that there's no room in
the world for those who were never loved. What's worse is knowing how
loveless I am. I don't expect to be given anything. Because of the
assholes who took all they could get and threw me away, there isn't
JACK ***** left to give anyone, including myself.
I embraced hedonism after my divorce and plunge into the mentally-ill
underclass. Please myself and the hell with everything else. It's as
empty as you might imagine. I don't even care enough to be a
narcissist.
I've never been silent. My abusers wanted that and rebelling against
it is reflexive. My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
.
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| User: "bunbun" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 12:39:39 PM |
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"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote
Posting this may be a mistake. I don't want any I-still-like-you's or
do-something-about-it's or fucking rah-rah psychobabble. I need words
on a monitor screen because I'm sick of the noise in my head.
That makes sense to me. It seems reasonable. There are plenty of words on
a monitor screen to be had around here, so hey, claudia. Why not try
hanging around here some, where you know some folks and some folks know you,
and there are others to get to know that have some pretty interesting words
to put on this monitor from time to time?
I get tired of looking for answers sometimes. I don't want to always be
doing that. Sometimes I just want to hang out. So come hang out. Drown
out the noise with some different noise, distract yourself, let yourself get
interested in some line of reasoning for a few minutes -- you've got a sharp
mind -- and laugh at some of the inanities and also truly funny things
people say around here -- you always had a wicked sense of humour.
Just hang out. Or not, if you're just passing through, but hey, it's
something to do, what could it hurt more than the way things already suck,
you know? Anyway, I'd like it if you did. I've thought about you since you
left and always hoped you might come back sometime. Sucks that things are
so bad. It is good to see you.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 01:25:47 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:39:39 GMT, "bunbun" <bunny@blarg.net> wrote:
->That makes sense to me. It seems reasonable. There are plenty of words on
->a monitor screen to be had around here, so hey, claudia. Why not try
->hanging around here some, where you know some folks and some folks know you,
->and there are others to get to know that have some pretty interesting words
->to put on this monitor from time to time?
Google some stuff related to me and this NG from..eh... around late
2000 to early 2001. No, thanks.
->I get tired of looking for answers sometimes. I don't want to always be
->doing that. Sometimes I just want to hang out. So come hang out. Drown
->out the noise with some different noise, distract yourself, let yourself get
->interested in some line of reasoning for a few minutes -- you've got a sharp
->mind -- and laugh at some of the inanities and also truly funny things
->people say around here -- you always had a wicked sense of humour.
What's in it for me?
->Just hang out. Or not, if you're just passing through, but hey, it's
->something to do, what could it hurt more than the way things already suck,
->you know? Anyway, I'd like it if you did. I've thought about you since you
->left and always hoped you might come back sometime. Sucks that things are
->so bad. It is good to see you.
I got a scholarship at the Y this summer and took up weight-training.
I hoped getting back in shape would improve my attitude. I'm losing
weight, developing serious muscles and feeling angrier. I put on
headphones, blast NIN and vent all the rage I want to at the gym. No
one notices 'cause they're doing the same thing. I'll stick with that.
I'm going down, but I won't go quietly. Ain't my style. Some people
try "suicide by cop" or shoot innocent people. They're fucking
disgusting. They just want to get on TV. I'd prefer a gruesome bicycle
accident or busting an artery by overloading a barbell. No publicity
desired.
.
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| User: "bunbun" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 01:49:30 PM |
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"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote
Google some stuff related to me and this NG from..eh... around late
2000 to early 2001. No, thanks.
I remember.
What's in it for me?
If you can't answer that question yourself, that's all the answer you need.
I've got zero interest in seeing you stick around if you can't get anything
good from it.
I got a scholarship at the Y this summer and took up weight-training.
I hoped getting back in shape would improve my attitude. I'm losing
weight, developing serious muscles and feeling angrier. I put on
headphones, blast NIN and vent all the rage I want to at the gym. No
one notices 'cause they're doing the same thing. I'll stick with that.
Sounds kind of awesome, actually. Cool about the scholarship.
I'm going down, but I won't go quietly. Ain't my style. Some people
try "suicide by cop" or shoot innocent people. They're fucking
disgusting. They just want to get on TV. I'd prefer a gruesome bicycle
accident or busting an artery by overloading a barbell. No publicity
desired.
I hear that. And we're all going out somehow, sometime. I've developed
congestive heart failure since you were last here so I'll likely be going
out a lot sooner than I expected to before. And that's okay with me. I'm
not always happy about the way some stuff in my life has turned out, but I'm
damned if I'll use someone else as target practice to relieve my feelings.
That deserves no respect whatsoever.
.
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| User: "%" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 01:50:54 PM |
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bunbun wrote:
"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote
Google some stuff related to me and this NG from..eh... around late
2000 to early 2001. No, thanks.
I remember.
What's in it for me?
If you can't answer that question yourself, that's all the answer you
need. I've got zero interest in seeing you stick around if you can't
get anything good from it.
I got a scholarship at the Y this summer and took up weight-training.
I hoped getting back in shape would improve my attitude. I'm losing
weight, developing serious muscles and feeling angrier. I put on
headphones, blast NIN and vent all the rage I want to at the gym. No
one notices 'cause they're doing the same thing. I'll stick with
that.
Sounds kind of awesome, actually. Cool about the scholarship.
I'm going down, but I won't go quietly. Ain't my style. Some people
try "suicide by cop" or shoot innocent people. They're fucking
disgusting. They just want to get on TV. I'd prefer a gruesome
bicycle accident or busting an artery by overloading a barbell. No
publicity desired.
I hear that. And we're all going out somehow, sometime. I've
developed congestive heart failure since you were last here so I'll
likely be going out a lot sooner than I expected to before. And
that's okay with me. I'm not always happy about the way some stuff
in my life has turned out, but I'm damned if I'll use someone else as
target practice to relieve my feelings. That deserves no respect
whatsoever.
its not my fault
.
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| User: "Alan Harding" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
23 Dec 2007 05:48:40 PM |
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In message <AfCdnTxmL_8o9_DanZ2dnUVZ_oimnZ2d@giganews.com>, %
<persent@gmail.com> writes
bunbun wrote:
"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote
Google some stuff related to me and this NG from..eh... around late
2000 to early 2001. No, thanks.
I remember.
What's in it for me?
If you can't answer that question yourself, that's all the answer you
need. I've got zero interest in seeing you stick around if you can't
get anything good from it.
I got a scholarship at the Y this summer and took up weight-training.
I hoped getting back in shape would improve my attitude. I'm losing
weight, developing serious muscles and feeling angrier. I put on
headphones, blast NIN and vent all the rage I want to at the gym. No
one notices 'cause they're doing the same thing. I'll stick with
that.
Sounds kind of awesome, actually. Cool about the scholarship.
I'm going down, but I won't go quietly. Ain't my style. Some people
try "suicide by cop" or shoot innocent people. They're fucking
disgusting. They just want to get on TV. I'd prefer a gruesome
bicycle accident or busting an artery by overloading a barbell. No
publicity desired.
I hear that. And we're all going out somehow, sometime. I've
developed congestive heart failure since you were last here so I'll
likely be going out a lot sooner than I expected to before. And
that's okay with me. I'm not always happy about the way some stuff
in my life has turned out, but I'm damned if I'll use someone else as
target practice to relieve my feelings. That deserves no respect
whatsoever.
its not my fault
Keep up at the back! It's Denise's fault.
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
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| User: "%" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 01:33:32 PM |
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neverchimera wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:39:39 GMT, "bunbun" <bunny@blarg.net> wrote:
->That makes sense to me. It seems reasonable. There are plenty of
words on
->a monitor screen to be had around here, so hey, claudia. Why not
try
->hanging around here some, where you know some folks and some folks
know you,
->and there are others to get to know that have some pretty
interesting words
->to put on this monitor from time to time?
Google some stuff related to me and this NG from..eh... around late
2000 to early 2001. No, thanks.
->I get tired of looking for answers sometimes. I don't want to
always be
->doing that. Sometimes I just want to hang out. So come hang out.
Drown
->out the noise with some different noise, distract yourself, let
yourself get
->interested in some line of reasoning for a few minutes -- you've
got a sharp
->mind -- and laugh at some of the inanities and also truly funny
things
->people say around here -- you always had a wicked sense of humour.
What's in it for me?
->Just hang out. Or not, if you're just passing through, but hey,
it's
->something to do, what could it hurt more than the way things
already suck,
->you know? Anyway, I'd like it if you did. I've thought about you
since you
->left and always hoped you might come back sometime. Sucks that
things are
->so bad. It is good to see you.
I got a scholarship at the Y this summer and took up weight-training.
I hoped getting back in shape would improve my attitude. I'm losing
weight, developing serious muscles and feeling angrier. I put on
headphones, blast NIN and vent all the rage I want to at the gym. No
one notices 'cause they're doing the same thing. I'll stick with that.
I'm going down, but I won't go quietly. Ain't my style. Some people
try "suicide by cop" or shoot innocent people. They're fucking
disgusting. They just want to get on TV. I'd prefer a gruesome bicycle
accident or busting an artery by overloading a barbell. No publicity
desired.
hi
.
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| User: "used2be" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
23 Dec 2007 11:28:07 PM |
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"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote in message
news:pehqm3l8q005do5cd20hpfpc60f8svbrrl@4ax.com...
I'm running out of excuses to endure this holiday *****, year after
year.
I thought being alone would become easier as I get older. Everywhere I
look, I see what I missed, never had and never will have. It hurts
more as time passes. December is the worst month.
I'm harder, colder and more bitter than I could have imagined ten
years ago. I used to be driven by flashes of hope, whether I made them
up or put faith in what others said. Today, people see an empty lie
and mistake it for character. I have a great public facade, but I am
nearly dead; only my body continues to function.
I've run out of lies but am too stubborn to end my life. I'll summon
the courage at some point, not today, not next month, but I will.
Posting this may be a mistake. I don't want any I-still-like-you's or
do-something-about-it's or fucking rah-rah psychobabble. I need words
on a monitor screen because I'm sick of the noise in my head. I'm out
of energy to fight off RL people who think I'm strong enough to cling
to, or to scream at those who ignore being told I Don't Want You.
(Almost got kicked out of my building last week due to the latter.
Some old, tired, drunk, broken-down ***** in a wheelchair was damn
near stalking me for weeks. I went PTSD on his *****, right in the
lobby. Words only. I never hit first but always hit last. No one here
is stupid enough to touch me.)
This time of year, everything is a reminder that there's no room in
the world for those who were never loved. What's worse is knowing how
loveless I am. I don't expect to be given anything. Because of the
assholes who took all they could get and threw me away, there isn't
JACK ***** left to give anyone, including myself.
I embraced hedonism after my divorce and plunge into the mentally-ill
underclass. Please myself and the hell with everything else. It's as
empty as you might imagine. I don't even care enough to be a
narcissist.
I've never been silent. My abusers wanted that and rebelling against
it is reflexive. My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
hey claude...it's good to see you again. i've often thought of you and
wondered how you were getting along. i'm sorry to hear that it hasn't been
going so well. :/
~u2b
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 09:08:02 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:28:07 -0600, "used2be" <used2be@nowhere.com>
wrote:
->hey claude...it's good to see you again. i've often thought of you and
->wondered how you were getting along. i'm sorry to hear that it hasn't been
->going so well. :/
Oh, well. Such is the life of a chronic headcase.
It's nice to see you, too.
.
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| User: "Rhiannon" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 01:13:26 PM |
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"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote in message
news:pehqm3l8q005do5cd20hpfpc60f8svbrrl@4ax.com...
I'm running out of excuses to endure this holiday *****, year after
year.
I thought being alone would become easier as I get older. Everywhere I
look, I see what I missed, never had and never will have. It hurts
more as time passes. December is the worst month.
I'm harder, colder and more bitter than I could have imagined ten
years ago. I used to be driven by flashes of hope, whether I made them
up or put faith in what others said. Today, people see an empty lie
and mistake it for character. I have a great public facade, but I am
nearly dead; only my body continues to function.
I've run out of lies but am too stubborn to end my life. I'll summon
the courage at some point, not today, not next month, but I will.
Posting this may be a mistake. I don't want any I-still-like-you's or
do-something-about-it's or fucking rah-rah psychobabble. I need words
on a monitor screen because I'm sick of the noise in my head. I'm out
of energy to fight off RL people who think I'm strong enough to cling
to, or to scream at those who ignore being told I Don't Want You.
(Almost got kicked out of my building last week due to the latter.
Some old, tired, drunk, broken-down ***** in a wheelchair was damn
near stalking me for weeks. I went PTSD on his *****, right in the
lobby. Words only. I never hit first but always hit last. No one here
is stupid enough to touch me.)
This time of year, everything is a reminder that there's no room in
the world for those who were never loved. What's worse is knowing how
loveless I am. I don't expect to be given anything. Because of the
assholes who took all they could get and threw me away, there isn't
JACK ***** left to give anyone, including myself.
I embraced hedonism after my divorce and plunge into the mentally-ill
underclass. Please myself and the hell with everything else. It's as
empty as you might imagine. I don't even care enough to be a
narcissist.
I've never been silent. My abusers wanted that and rebelling against
it is reflexive. My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
Yep. I hear ya.
--
Rhi
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
22 Dec 2007 08:18:52 PM |
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Hi!!!
Tis the season huh? Sorry you are in that position to feel you need us, but
glad you did post. Good to know you're still ***** and vinegar!
Been driving any tractor trailers?
No hugs, no kisses, but how about a hiya?
Jane
"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote in message
news:pehqm3l8q005do5cd20hpfpc60f8svbrrl@4ax.com...
I'm running out of excuses to endure this holiday *****, year after
year.
I thought being alone would become easier as I get older. Everywhere I
look, I see what I missed, never had and never will have. It hurts
more as time passes. December is the worst month.
I'm harder, colder and more bitter than I could have imagined ten
years ago. I used to be driven by flashes of hope, whether I made them
up or put faith in what others said. Today, people see an empty lie
and mistake it for character. I have a great public facade, but I am
nearly dead; only my body continues to function.
I've run out of lies but am too stubborn to end my life. I'll summon
the courage at some point, not today, not next month, but I will.
Posting this may be a mistake. I don't want any I-still-like-you's or
do-something-about-it's or fucking rah-rah psychobabble. I need words
on a monitor screen because I'm sick of the noise in my head. I'm out
of energy to fight off RL people who think I'm strong enough to cling
to, or to scream at those who ignore being told I Don't Want You.
(Almost got kicked out of my building last week due to the latter.
Some old, tired, drunk, broken-down ***** in a wheelchair was damn
near stalking me for weeks. I went PTSD on his *****, right in the
lobby. Words only. I never hit first but always hit last. No one here
is stupid enough to touch me.)
This time of year, everything is a reminder that there's no room in
the world for those who were never loved. What's worse is knowing how
loveless I am. I don't expect to be given anything. Because of the
assholes who took all they could get and threw me away, there isn't
JACK ***** left to give anyone, including myself.
I embraced hedonism after my divorce and plunge into the mentally-ill
underclass. Please myself and the hell with everything else. It's as
empty as you might imagine. I don't even care enough to be a
narcissist.
I've never been silent. My abusers wanted that and rebelling against
it is reflexive. My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
.
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| User: "Gayle" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
23 Dec 2007 07:48:25 PM |
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My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
Hey, Claudia, speaking of breathing, maybe we can do a few minutes of
silent breathing together on 12/31. If I'm remembering correctly, you've
spent time on the Orin DaBen website. They're organizing, if that's the
right word, a kinda peace party and I'm thinking of attending:
http://www.orindaben.com/home/wwmeditationpeace.php
I think of you often.
Gayle
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 12:29:00 AM |
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Spoiler: Metaphysics. I'm seriously into such things. If you're not,
move on.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:48:25 -0500, Gayle <gayleco@rcn.com> wrote:
->
->> My last breath, when it comes, will not be silent.
->
->Hey, Claudia, speaking of breathing, maybe we can do a few minutes of
->silent breathing together on 12/31. If I'm remembering correctly, you've
->spent time on the Orin DaBen website. They're organizing, if that's the
->right word, a kinda peace party and I'm thinking of attending:
->
->http://www.orindaben.com/home/wwmeditationpeace.php
->
->I think of you often.
Thank you, Gayle. I like you a lot.
I love Orin's website. I referred to it often before my ability to
meditate deteriorated. Oh, how I want that discipline back. My brain
is so overstimulated, it's like a tea kettle that's been boiling too
long. The steam whistle, high-pitched and maddening, reverberates in
my imagination. We know what happens when a kettle dries out while
continuing to be heated.
I see the therapist-moderator of my Bipolar support group privately on
occasion. He's acutely sensitive and called me "dynamic to the point
of being overpowering". He knows nothing of auras, but said he's
"literally seen a glow" around me.
"Yes. It's orange", I replied. "And that's not good."
He stared incredulously, then nodded his head. "How do you know?"
"I see it all the time."
When I concentrate on the glow, I see a star preparing for its last
act of existence, a supernova leading to antimatter and tremendous
vacuum.
Energy projects from without and within, expands, reflects and
multiplies upon itself. It's how the Universe works and living
creatures are not immune.
There's yoga classes at my Y. I've been interested in yoga for years.
The classes wouldn't cost anything because I'm on scholarship. Unless
I can get this "dynamic" (read: destructive) energy under control, I'd
ruin the flow of a session without saying a word.
Yeah. I love overblown metaphors. So sue me.
No, I haven't finished my novels. I work on them them from time to
time. The first book is a full story but needs a lot of revision and
fleshing-out. The sequel doesn't have a conclusion. 200,000 words are
stored on a memory stick that I'm looking at right now. It reminds me
of the writer I could be if I weren't so fucking miserable.
I'll consider the New Year's Eve event. Maybe I'll find inspiration...
or some energy to counteract the force that is threatening to consume
me.
.
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 02:45:14 AM |
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In article <vlhum318dpj27g5m8c6rflul9vi0m15ba7@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
Spoiler: Metaphysics. I'm seriously into such things. If you're not,
move on.
You know, if you'd just written the rest of what you'd written, the
easily skippable stuff about your orange aura, etc., I probably would
have done just that. But the classic, embarrassingly self-important,
gratuitously arrogant touch of adding that "move on" bit makes me pause
for a second and wonder, what color was your attitude at that particular
point in time, when you consciously decided *against* simply telling
your story to a potentially interested audience and *for* telling the
story prefaced with a totally unwarranted if cringeably ineffectual bit
of bossy, attempted cop-like bullying? I'm thinking a kind of sickly
green, like what leaks out of the Virginian Opossum's ***** after an hour
or so of playing dead. Which is really kind of a shame, considering the
very positive response you've been getting in spite of your attempts at
preemptive alienation.
Anyway, Merry Christmas!
Mark
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 05:52:14 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:45:14 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <vlhum318dpj27g5m8c6rflul9vi0m15ba7@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> Spoiler: Metaphysics. I'm seriously into such things. If you're not,
->> move on.
->
->You know, if you'd just written the rest of what you'd written, the
->easily skippable stuff about your orange aura, etc., I probably would
->have done just that. But the classic, embarrassingly self-important,
->gratuitously arrogant touch of adding that "move on" bit makes me pause
->for a second and wonder, what color was your attitude at that particular
->point in time, when you consciously decided *against* simply telling
->your story to a potentially interested audience and *for* telling the
->story prefaced with a totally unwarranted if cringeably ineffectual bit
->of bossy, attempted cop-like bullying? I'm thinking a kind of sickly
->green, like what leaks out of the Virginian Opossum's ***** after an hour
->or so of playing dead. Which is really kind of a shame, considering the
->very positive response you've been getting in spite of your attempts at
->preemptive alienation.
Ha, ha, that's funny, Mark. I put up a spoiler, you knew you weren't
going to like the content, you read it anyway and it pissed you off.
Congratulations, you're a knucklehead.
I'm gratuitous. Arrogant. Narcissistic. Needlessly verbose. Bitchy.
Histrionic. Self-congratulatory. Love the sight of my own words. I'm
into auras, meditation, energy, trance experiences and seriously
whacked-out stuff like astral projection. Yes, all that and more.
You've known me via ASD for what, how long? My personality and writing
style irritate you. Yet you eat my posts up up like a cat let loose in
a fish market.
Killfile. Learn it, love it, use it. Nah, you probably won't. I
irritate you and you like the adrenaline rush of being indignant
towards me. Hey, whatever.
Did you enjoy yourself? Your vitriol certainly amused me. Thanks for
the laughs. Merry freakin' Christmas to you, too.
[Sit back, folks, and watch him go! He won't stop here. I'm on his
rather lengthy list of ASD playthings. Ya know what's sad? I like him
anyway. He's witty and fascinating when he's not being a *****.]
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 09:29:32 AM |
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In article <p16vm3tc8euqgmvo7tbnsho6l57se64sed@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
Ha, ha, that's funny, Mark. I put up a spoiler, you knew you weren't
going to like the content, you read it anyway and it pissed you off.
Ho ho ho! Silly rabbit, it wasn't the post -- that was just vicariously
embarrassing -- it was the *spoiler* itself I found obnoxious. And it
was, and you know it, and you love it, so you should be happy!
My personality and writing style irritate you. Yet you eat my posts
up up like a cat let loose in a fish market.
Nah, I skip most of them; it's usually just the same old recycled stuff
anyway. Skipped most of this one about "metaphysics" -- a word you use
incorrectly, BTW -- too. You gotta come out with a good Chimmy in the
first sentence or two to really catch my attention and get me skimmin'
and Chimmin' for more "good" stuff.
Did you enjoy yourself? Your vitriol certainly amused me. Thanks for
the laughs. Merry freakin' Christmas to you, too.
Yeah, I kind of did enjoy myself! And I knew you would, too! So I guess
this is where somebody is supposed to say "it's all good", right? =8^)
And really, it wasn't all bad. The last line or two even might be
considered to express a sort of wisdom. OK, the stuff about the possum
may have been a bit excessive. But I'd just had an encounter with one
where my dog scared it and it was playing dead and I was reading up on
them so that's how I knew about the Green Anal Juice of Fear.
Mark
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 04:59:09 PM |
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You are so much fun, Mark. I don't know if I'm going to stick around
ASD, but when I come here, playing with you is one of the highlights
of being here.
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:29:32 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <p16vm3tc8euqgmvo7tbnsho6l57se64sed@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> Ha, ha, that's funny, Mark. I put up a spoiler, you knew you weren't
->> going to like the content, you read it anyway and it pissed you off.
->
->Ho ho ho! Silly rabbit, it wasn't the post -- that was just vicariously
->embarrassing --
Why vicariously embarrassing? They weren't your thoughts, they were
mine, and they're admittedly bizarre. Besides, I'm experiencing a bout
of insomnia, when I tend to write weird things. Gotta love medication
changes.
->it was the *spoiler* itself I found obnoxious. And it
->was, and you know it, and you love it, so you should be happy!
[dances around living room]
Semantic wars, love 'em, love 'em, yeah yeah yeah! Jump up, turn
around, mash up the syntax and do it again!
[insert techno bass riff here]
[ow, that jump hurt my knee! i shouldn't dance without my compression
brace]
->> My personality and writing style irritate you. Yet you eat my posts
->> up up like a cat let loose in a fish market.
->
->Nah, I skip most of them; it's usually just the same old recycled stuff
->anyway.
Who isn't repetitive around here? Or anywhere, for that matter?
->Skipped most of this one about "metaphysics" -- a word you use
->incorrectly, BTW -- too.
For crying out loud. I just switched apartments and my thesaurus is
still packed in a box somewhere. m-w.com loads too slowly on my
ancient computer. Give an aspiring writer a break, will 'ya?
->You gotta come out with a good Chimmy in the
->first sentence or two to really catch my attention and get me skimmin'
->and Chimmin' for more "good" stuff.
<sarcasm>
I'll work harder to be more bizarre, verbose and semantically
incorrect, just for you.
</sarcasm>
->> Did you enjoy yourself? Your vitriol certainly amused me. Thanks for
->> the laughs. Merry freakin' Christmas to you, too.
->
->Yeah, I kind of did enjoy myself! And I knew you would, too! So I guess
->this is where somebody is supposed to say "it's all good", right? =8^)
It was a blast [unnecessary exclamation point!]
->And really, it wasn't all bad. The last line or two even might be
->considered to express a sort of wisdom.
I dunno about wisdom. Ramblings of the mad combined with
hypercreativity, perhaps. But, hey, everyone's got an opinion.
->OK, the stuff about the possum may have been a bit excessive.
That was one of the sections I laughed the hardest at. What a visual.
->But I'd just had an encounter with one
->where my dog scared it and it was playing dead and I was reading up on
->them so that's how I knew about the Green Anal Juice of Fear.
Eeek! Poor Gip. What did she do? Whoa, like, that's totally gross!
Carry on. I woke up at 4 PM. So many hours ahead, so much time to
waste on teh internets.
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 06:09:36 PM |
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In article <97d0n3d256n8vs9512a0t7l5b1lhpaan28@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
They weren't your thoughts, they were mine,
and they're admittedly bizarre.
Not really. An awful lot of Unique Snowflakes believe in auras and
stuff. Hate to disappoint you, Chim, but you're pretty mainstream in
some respects, at least if we're talking mainstream "spiritual" wonky.
Besides, I'm experiencing a bout of insomnia, when I tend to write
weird things. Gotta love medication changes.
I wish they were all that much fun. My most recent med regimen was so
disastrous I'm currently not on any ADs at all, just klonny and the
occasional self-destructive obliterant. And I didn't even get any good
psycho alternate ASD personalities out of it, just a lot of whining.
Anyway...
[dances around living room]
This makes me think of Leland Palmer, father of "Twin Peaks" murder
victim Laura Palmer, dancing around singing "Get Happy" while a young
Alicia Witt plays piano.
Did you remember to forget your troubles?
Semantic wars, love 'em, love 'em, yeah yeah yeah!
Sigh. This is my cue to ritualistically explain the misguidedness of
calling a dispute "semantic", but that would just be too
un-Christmas-Eve-y.
Snip, snip, snip... snip, snip, snip... snip, snip all the way...
OK, the stuff about the possum may have been a bit excessive.
That was one of the sections I laughed the hardest at. What a visual.
But I'd just had an encounter with one
where my dog scared it and it was playing dead and I was reading up on
them so that's how I knew about the Green Anal Juice of Fear.
Eeek! Poor Gip. What did she do? Whoa, like, that's totally gross!
Fortunately, she just stared and sniffed. Even a possum playing dead has
its limits, you can poke them and push them around but if Gip had
actually tried to take a bite out of it it probably would have snapped
to life and given her a nasty surprise -- those things have FIFTY TEETH!
Anyway, serially, Merry Christmas or whatever your seasonal sentiment of
choice is. Sorry you're not doing better, hope tonight offers you some
sort of small joy.
Mark
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 07:58:06 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:09:36 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <97d0n3d256n8vs9512a0t7l5b1lhpaan28@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> They weren't your thoughts, they were mine,
->> and they're admittedly bizarre.
->
->Not really. An awful lot of Unique Snowflakes believe in auras and
->stuff. Hate to disappoint you, Chim, but you're pretty mainstream in
->some respects, at least if we're talking mainstream "spiritual" wonky.
I usually keep the woo-woo stuff private. It's an Intimate
Experience(tm). The conversation with the therapist was unusual. He
was curious and asked questions. I like the guy, so I answered.
Every organized religion and belief system is chock-full of wonk. Some
folks pray to holy dead people, others talk to generations of dead
ancestors. Some revere the words of prophets as a guide to living.
Some folks use two sets of dishes and don't eat certain foods. Some
folks think nothingness is enlightenment. Some folks think there's
hundreds of thousands of deities. I like pseudo-scientific ideas about
energy and the workings of the Universe. Some folks don't believe any
spirituality exists, which I think is a belief system in itself.
Science is a belief system with strict rules and theories that change
when ideas are proven to be either fact or educated guesses. Who's to
say if any of it is wrong, right, real or imaginary? Does it matter? I
don't think so. Spin the wheel and guess what slot of Dogmatic
Weirdness it'll stop on. No, you can't buy a vowel.
->> Besides, I'm experiencing a bout of insomnia, when I tend to write
->> weird things. Gotta love medication changes.
->
->I wish they were all that much fun. My most recent med regimen was so
->disastrous I'm currently not on any ADs at all, just klonny and the
->occasional self-destructive obliterant. And I didn't even get any good
->psycho alternate ASD personalities out of it, just a lot of whining.
->Anyway...
I was on Lexapro, which messed me up real good. Went off it this
summer, only took Lamictal and Klonny PRN, was stable for a while.
Depression came back in October. I love Wellbutrin SR until it makes
me too hypomanic. My doc gives me whatever I ask for except extra
benzos. I research meds before trying them and he trusts me. 1 mg.
Klonny 2x/day PRN is more than I ever use in a month. I'll even the
insomnia thing out with Seroquel, also PRN from 50-300 mg, doc's
permission.
Psychoactive Pharmaceuticals. They're not just a pain in the *****,
they're a lifestyle.
Wellbutrin eases my depression fast and makes me intensely creative.
Unfortunately, I can only tolerate it for a few months. SSRI's ain't
doin' it for me anymore and I will NOT take MAOI's. There's new meds I
haven't tried. Probably will in the future.
->> [dances around living room]
->
->This makes me think of Leland Palmer, father of "Twin Peaks" murder
->victim Laura Palmer, dancing around singing "Get Happy" while a young
->Alicia Witt plays piano.
->
->Did you remember to forget your troubles?
I never watched Twin Peaks. It was too out there, even for me.
I forget my troubles when I dance, sing, write, get caught up in a
good movie or ride my bike. Rented A Beautiful Mind this summer. Have
you seen it? Excellent film. Paused it several times because some
scenes dazed me. I cried at the end, and I almost never cry over
movies. Loved it. Will buy it when I find a deal on Amazon. I never
buy movies on eBay, it's full of bad bootlegs.
->> Semantic wars, love 'em, love 'em, yeah yeah yeah!
->
->Sigh. This is my cue to ritualistically explain the misguidedness of
->calling a dispute "semantic", but that would just be too
->un-Christmas-Eve-y.
I said it to amuse you. :P
->Snip, snip, snip... snip, snip, snip... snip, snip all the way...
I ain't dashin' nowhere in no open sleighs. I live in Florida.
<snipperoni back atcha, bud>
->> Eeek! Poor Gip. What did she do? Whoa, like, that's totally gross!
->
->Fortunately, she just stared and sniffed. Even a possum playing dead has
->its limits, you can poke them and push them around but if Gip had
->actually tried to take a bite out of it it probably would have snapped
->to life and given her a nasty surprise -- those things have FIFTY TEETH!
Possums are scary. There's a lot of 'em around here. People equate
gators with Florida, but they aren't as scary. They rarely attack
unless they're provoked, surprised or really hungry. Possums will go
after anything.
->Anyway, serially, Merry Christmas or whatever your seasonal sentiment of
->choice is. Sorry you're not doing better, hope tonight offers you some
->sort of small joy.
->
->Mark
I do Solstice. That's over. I return holiday greetings as offered
'cause I respect whatever folks believe in.
Merry Christmas to you and Gip Gip. Sincerely.
I'll be better after the Holidaze are over, ramping up some Seroquel
and getting my knee fixed (be it by arthroscopic surgery for a second
time, physical therapy or a prescription brace).
.
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
24 Dec 2007 10:14:37 PM |
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In article <7dl0n35rc1o0ofj35qnjgl9fqb8bnt10oq@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
Science is a belief system with strict rules and theories that change
when ideas are proven to be either fact or educated guesses. Who's to
say if any of it is wrong, right, real or imaginary?
First of all, science is *not* a belief system, certainly not in the
sense that Roman Catholicism is. It's a theoretical methodology based on
the core principle that truth is uncovered by systematic observation.
As for the perennial would-be show-stopper "who's to say?" -- that's
easy, anyone who cares to. But are all "sayings" equally valid, equally
cogent? Of course not. How do you connect to the Internet, DSL, cable?
How does it work, what "belief system" was consulted by the engineers
who developed the technology? Who do you turn to when it breaks?
Does it matter? I don't think so.
I ask myself something like that a lot. Regarding your belief in auras,
I'm actually leaning lately toward the attitude that it really doesn't
matter whether or not it's true, what matters is what you get out of it,
what you and the people you interact with get out of the effect
believing that has on the way you live.
Regarding an awful lot of other stuff, though, it unquestionably matters
a hell of a lot. If I'm ever shot, I sure hope the ambulance takes me to
a hospital ER and not a Christian Science Reading Room. And I don't try
to treat DSL problems with prayer, either.
Wellbutrin eases my depression fast and makes me intensely creative.
It doesn't really do either for me, but it does help, with minimal bad
effects. I think I'm probably going back on it for 2008.
I will NOT take MAOI's.
Dunno if you saw it here but my recent med troubles were with Nardil, an
MAOI. Why your firm decision not to take them? For some people they work
like a charm. Bad past experience? The dietary hassles?
Rented A Beautiful Mind this summer. Have you seen it? Excellent film.
Sure have, and I agree. Crowe was amazing in it. I did tears, too.
Anyway, serially, Merry Christmas or whatever your seasonal
sentiment of choice is ...
I do Solstice. That's over. I return holiday greetings as offered
'cause I respect whatever folks believe in.
You know, with all the PC/anti-PC brouhaha about it I've become much
more aware this holiday season of how people say stuff, and
non-Christian as I may be, I really wish people weren't so afraid to say
"Merry Christmas". Seems like the only people willing to "officially"
say it are the fucking politicians sucking up to the religion right,
which is about as far removed from The Spirit as possible.
But hey, do you know the musician Melanie? I saw her (with a former
ASDer who would probably prefer not to be named) last Friday in
Schenectady, NY, her and two of her children accompanying her for a
genuine Christmas show. It was really sweet and really lovely.
Merry Christmas to you and Gip Gip. Sincerely.
Thanks, Claudia, and to you, too. Totally sincerely. Beaming you
friendly thoughts of a star on a tree and candles in the rain and bright
blessings and the coolness of living on a tilted planet that has
solstices and equinoxes and the wish that everything may work out for
you in the coming days as best it can, medically and otherwise.
Your ***** friend,
Mark
=8^)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 03:57:28 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 04:14:37 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->First of all, science is *not* a belief system, certainly not in the
->sense that Roman Catholicism is. It's a theoretical methodology based on
->the core principle that truth is uncovered by systematic observation.
(yawn)
Begin with theories that are proven to be true.
Formulate new theories based on informed ideas or observable evidence.
Test the theories in order to discover more truths.
Accept new theories that are proven true. Discard those that prove
false.
Formulate new theories based on what is learned during the process of
testing and observation. Explore new informed ideas.
Repeat as necessary.
IMO, the process involves suspension of faith. Not by spiritual or
religious definitions, rational and logical definitions.
Sounds like a belief system to me.
Hey, look. I "read" (listened to) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance two months ago. I found it totally understandable, which
was kinda scary.
->As for the perennial would-be show-stopper "who's to say?" -- that's
->easy, anyone who cares to. But are all "sayings" equally valid, equally
->cogent? Of course not. How do you connect to the Internet, DSL, cable?
->How does it work, what "belief system" was consulted by the engineers
->who developed the technology? Who do you turn to when it breaks?
->
->> Does it matter? I don't think so.
->
->I ask myself something like that a lot. Regarding your belief in auras,
->I'm actually leaning lately toward the attitude that it really doesn't
->matter whether or not it's true, what matters is what you get out of it,
->what you and the people you interact with get out of the effect
->believing that has on the way you live.
Such is the nature of spiritual faith. Tangible evidence is not
necessary, but some certainly helps. Cause, effect and result may not
lead to hardcore science, but experience can be its own variety of
truth.
->Regarding an awful lot of other stuff, though, it unquestionably matters
->a hell of a lot. If I'm ever shot, I sure hope the ambulance takes me to
->a hospital ER and not a Christian Science Reading Room. And I don't try
->to treat DSL problems with prayer, either.
The ER will help you if you're shot because the staff there is aware
of medical truth. If your DSL craps out, a technician who has studied
the truth of fiberoptics, binary communication and electronics will be
able to fix it. Or a squirrel thought your outdoor phone line was a
tasty snack. The squirrel had no concept of the truth of being fried
like an egg on a summer sidewalk.
Science and spirituality are different varieties of faith.
[here we go again!]
->> Wellbutrin eases my depression fast and makes me intensely creative.
->
->It doesn't really do either for me, but it does help, with minimal bad
->effects. I think I'm probably going back on it for 2008.
Sometimes the treatment is worse than the illness. There's no logic,
truth, faith or spirituality in the exploratory process of Medication
Roulette. Honest psychiatrists will admit they don't know squat.
"Here, try this [bizarre medication name]. It was developed to treat
[a totally unrelated disease]. We found out by accident that it
sometimes works for [your psychiatric illness]. Hopefully it'll work
for you. Here's a [long and frightening] list of possible side
effects. If you have any, call [my answering service, my rude
receptionist who'll lose the message or the cell phone I never
answer], or go to the ER [where your insurance company might reject
the treatment cost as "previously unauthorized" and ruin your credit
rating]. If it doesn't work [and you don't end up in a drooling,
delusional state or with a horrid rash that might kill your *****], I'll
see you in a month and we can try [another frickin' medication]."
I hope that made you laugh. Being depressed sucks. Laughter helps.
Psychiatry is lousy science and a total faith-breaker. There's nothing
else to choose from aside from believing in the unknown, the icky guy
down the street who sells stuff smuggled in from South America, the
overpriced liquor store or continuing to be miserable. Freedom of
choice does not exist for the depressed. I prefer belief in the
unknown, its occasionally pleasant causes and effects, with a side
dish of legal psychotropic substances.
I hope you find your magic pill soon and feel better.
->> I will NOT take MAOI's.
->
->Dunno if you saw it here but my recent med troubles were with Nardil, an
->MAOI.
Never taken it. Lisa in Mass. once did, I remember her tales about it.
Maybe she's reading. Lisa, any opinions?
->Why your firm decision not to take them? For some people they work
->like a charm. Bad past experience? The dietary hassles?
It's the dietary list. Damn near everything I like is on it. I've
altered my diet six times in the last seven years for health reasons,
then tweaked it again after receiving the gift of access to the local
Y. The changes worked for cholesterol, weight reduction and
hypertension. I'm not changing anything else and I'm not giving up my
protein shakes. Build muscle mass, boost metabolism, burn body fat,
get a natural buzz for six hours, look hot in a tank top, ding, ding,
score! I'd rather be depressed with a fit body and blood test results
that make my general-practice doctor smile.
The only way I'd take MAOI's is if I were rendered catatonic by
depression and ECT fails. Never had ECT, either.
->> Rented A Beautiful Mind this summer. Have you seen it? Excellent film.
->
->Sure have, and I agree. Crowe was amazing in it. I did tears, too.
Here ya go, folks. If you haven't seen A Beautiful Mind, remember what
Mark and Claudia said about it. I have no taste but Mark does. Buy a
box of tissues, then rent it.
->You know, with all the PC/anti-PC brouhaha about it I've become much
->more aware this holiday season of how people say stuff, and
->non-Christian as I may be, I really wish people weren't so afraid to say
->"Merry Christmas". Seems like the only people willing to "officially"
->say it are the fucking politicians sucking up to the religion right,
->which is about as far removed from The Spirit as possible.
I agree 100 percent. If someone offers a holiday greeting, they're
being nice. Being civilized in return is, well, just as nice. I don't
expect anyone to wish me Happy Solstice. If they do, cool, if they
don't, I'll wish them something pleasant. Christmas is a perfectly
nice holiday if one disregards the materialism. Real Christians know
it was stolen from us Pagans. Let 'em celebrate, I ain't gonna ruin
their fun. I happen to like Jesus. He wasn't fond of politicians,
either.
Political correctness is tyranny. Think for yourselves, people!
->But hey, do you know the musician Melanie?
Yes.
->I saw her (with a former
->ASDer who would probably prefer not to be named) last Friday in
->Schenectady, NY, her and two of her children accompanying her for a
->genuine Christmas show. It was really sweet and really lovely.
Awesome! Glad you and (former ASD'er) enjoyed it.
->> Merry Christmas to you and Gip Gip. Sincerely.
->
->Thanks, Claudia, and to you, too. Totally sincerely. Beaming you
->friendly thoughts of a star on a tree and candles in the rain and bright
->blessings and the coolness of living on a tilted planet that has
->solstices and equinoxes and the wish that everything may work out for
->you in the coming days as best it can, medically and otherwise.
->
->Your ***** friend,
->Mark
You're not an *****. Stubborn? Yeah. Curmudgeonly, maybe.
Entertaining, definitely. Clever and intelligent, absolutely. And your
dog is gorgeous. :)
Your holiday wish was very sweet. It made me blush. Thank you, friend.
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 05:41:32 AM |
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In article <qc24n3hq6f0feoitq1hpbpcp0l05l1nrt2@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
IMO, the [scientific] process involves suspension of faith.
I suppose it does, since "faith" seems to mean the holding of beliefs
dogmatically, with an unwillingness to test or question them. If you
want to call that a "belief system" in itself, fine, whatever. But it's
a "belief system" that allows any elements to be reevaluated and
revised in light of new evidence and better theories.
Hey, look. I "read" (listened to) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance two months ago. I found it totally understandable, which
was kinda scary.
Oh God. I vaguely remember that book as the ravings of a mentally ill
former philosophy student with a bitter grudge against his school. It's
been a very long time, though.
The ER will help you if you're shot because the staff there is aware
of medical truth. If your DSL craps out, a technician who has studied
the truth of fiberoptics, binary communication and electronics will be
able to fix it.
Playing this game of calling things "X truth" and "Y truth" is just a
way of protecting your favorite "Z truth" from being challenged and
tested in the standard, rational, scientific ways described above. There
is no special "Truth of Fiber Optics", there's just a set of more or
less established truths concerning the behavior of optical fiber, and
it's a very different kind of set from the set you might call the "Truth
of The Tooth Fairy". Taking whatever package of "spiritual" dogma you
want to believe and insulating it from rational evaluation by insisting
that the "belief system" of rational evaluation doesn't apply to it just
amounts to a refusal to subject it to any considerations that might
indicate it's wrong. You wouldn't give your money to an ISP or any other
real world service that took that approach to diagnosing real world
problems that really matter as they arise.
Science and spirituality are different varieties of faith.
So I've heard from any number of "spiritualists". People love to trot
out this slogan, it's short and snappy and no amount of pointing out
what's wrong with it will diminish its sound-bitey appeal, so all I can
say is, again, "whatever". If you want to pick your beliefs the way you
pick flavors of ice cream, knock yourself out, but it's hard to miss the
fact that people only take this approach to things that don't really
matter, like whether or not you have an orange aura or a green aura.
Again, you wouldn't stay very long with an ISP or auto mechanic that
took a "spiritual" approach to problems with their wares, and the
reasons you wouldn't are instructive.
Anyway.
Psychiatry is lousy science and a total faith-breaker.
Sad but largely true, at this point in history. There are, however, some
areas of neurobiology that actually seem to be producing potentially
useful knowledge. I think medical treatment of depression will be a lot
better in a couple of hundred years, maybe even a couple of decades.
I hope you find your magic pill soon and feel better.
Thanks. You, too, if your relentlessly dismissive attitude will let you.
I'd rather be depressed with a fit body and blood test results
that make my general-practice doctor smile.
Sigh. Guess it isn't likely to!
Anyway[2], enough. The holiday wishes still stand, hope this finds you
well. Take care.
Mark
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 04:31:06 PM |
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On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:41:32 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <qc24n3hq6f0feoitq1hpbpcp0l05l1nrt2@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> IMO, the [scientific] process involves suspension of faith.
->
->I suppose it does, since "faith" seems to mean the holding of beliefs
->dogmatically, with an unwillingness to test or question them. If you
->want to call that a "belief system" in itself, fine, whatever. But it's
->a "belief system" that allows any elements to be reevaluated and
->revised in light of new evidence and better theories.
I can dig that opinion.
->> Hey, look. I "read" (listened to) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
->> Maintenance two months ago. I found it totally understandable, which
->> was kinda scary.
->
->Oh God. I vaguely remember that book as the ravings of a mentally ill
->former philosophy student with a bitter grudge against his school. It's
->been a very long time, though.
That's about right, except there were several schools he was Too Cool
to tolerate and a weird sabbatical in India. The dude was totally
bonkers when he wrote it in the early seventies. The bits about his
obsessiveness, self-consumption and dual personality, and how he
eventually cracked up, peaked my interest. His career change, the
things he saw on his motorcycle tour and dynamics with his son were
the best subplots. The CD series I listened to included an addendum
added in 2000-something. It was sad. There's a tragedy involved and it
made him more bonkers. I won't spoil it for those who don't know. If
anyone's curious, I'll Email them.
->> The ER will help you if you're shot because the staff there is aware
->> of medical truth. If your DSL craps out, a technician who has studied
->> the truth of fiberoptics, binary communication and electronics will be
->> able to fix it.
->
->Playing this game of calling things "X truth" and "Y truth" is just a
->way of protecting your favorite "Z truth" from being challenged and
->tested in the standard, rational, scientific ways described above.
I thought that was the nature of organized debate.
->There is no special "Truth of Fiber Optics", there's just a set of more or
->less established truths concerning the behavior of optical fiber, and
->it's a very different kind of set from the set you might call the "Truth
->of The Tooth Fairy".
Eh, what? It was my way of agreeing that prayer won't fix an Internet
connection, a certified technician will. And I thought the squirrel
bit was a funny nonsequitur.
->Taking whatever package of "spiritual" dogma you
->want to believe and insulating it from rational evaluation by insisting
->that the "belief system" of rational evaluation doesn't apply to it just
->amounts to a refusal to subject it to any considerations that might
->indicate it's wrong. You wouldn't give your money to an ISP or any other
->real world service that took that approach to diagnosing real world
->problems that really matter as they arise.
I'm an existentialist. That oughta raise your blood pressure a few
points. Sartre was batshit crazy and a nihilist, but his ideas
correlate with my version of batshit crazy. I debate from that
foundation.
->> Science and spirituality are different varieties of faith.
->
->So I've heard from any number of "spiritualists". People love to trot
->out this slogan, it's short and snappy and no amount of pointing out
->what's wrong with it
It's your opinion there's something wrong with spirituality. Are you
an atheist or agnostic? Nothing wrong with either. If so, that's the
basis on which you're debating from.
->will diminish its sound-bitey appeal, so all I can
->say is, again, "whatever".
Agree to disagree?
->If you want to pick your beliefs the way you pick flavors of ice cream,
No I don't. I pick them from ideas, try them out, keep the ones I
consider "truthful" and discard the ones I don't. Intimate
Experience(tm) is too valuable to me to approach it like a Newage
Sewage pinball game. My ideas keep me going through the lengthy
periods when I can't find any reasons to stay alive. I'm still alive.
That's a desirable cause-and-effect result, is it not?
->knock yourself out, but it's hard to miss the
->fact that people only take this approach to things that don't really
->matter, like whether or not you have an orange aura or a green aura.
I consider my approach to spirituality a lifelong learning process.
It's not a static mindset. It's the main reason I stopped being
exclusively Christian and chose Neo-Paganism. Most of it is full of
*****, Harry Potter wannabees and the like, but I find freedom and
expansion of wisdom within it. To each his or her own.
->Again, you wouldn't stay very long with an ISP or auto mechanic that
->took a "spiritual" approach to problems with their wares, and the
->reasons you wouldn't are instructive.
My dad was a mechanic. I preferred to fix cars within the extent of my
knowledge. The big problems were entrusted to a mechanic. Besides, I
have cable, not DSL. It's been reliable for nine years. I've only
needed to call for technicians three times; the disk supplied with
RoadRunner has adequate diagnostics to fix most software problems.
Those are rational decisions. So was installing a new and better power
supply in my PC. Spirituality had nothing to do with any of it.
->Anyway.
->
->> Psychiatry is lousy science and a total faith-breaker.
->
->Sad but largely true, at this point in history. There are, however, some
->areas of neurobiology that actually seem to be producing potentially
->useful knowledge. I think medical treatment of depression will be a lot
->better in a couple of hundred years, maybe even a couple of decades.
I agree. There's tremendously promising research going on. Future
treatments will be medically precise with fewer side effects and
decreased misery for patients. I love science as much as I love
spirituality. I have faith in both.
[here we go again!]
->> I hope you find your magic pill soon and feel better.
->
->Thanks. You, too, if your relentlessly dismissive attitude will let you.
Eh, what? You don't know how many medications I've gone through in the
last twenty-five years. I'm sure you've had an equal share of 'em,
maybe more. Dismissive? How's that? Severe side effects just suck. I
tell my trusted doctor about them, consider his opinions based on his
medical training and try the next thing he suggests.
->> I'd rather be depressed with a fit body and blood test results
->> that make my general-practice doctor smile.
->
->Sigh. Guess it isn't likely to!
Exercise is a proven method to help ease the severity of depression
and Bipolar moodswings. Hard-driving cardio sessions, especially, help
me. The knee injury curtailed that outlet and my moods are ***** again.
I wasn't working out when when the injury happened. I was walking past
a construction site and twisted my leg on a hole in the sidewalk. It
didn't earn any gym-cred points, which is disappointing.
->Anyway[2], enough. The holiday wishes still stand, hope this finds you
->well. Take care.
->
->Mark
Likewise. I'm going to end this ASD visit at the end of the week.
Long-term exposure to this place isn't beneficial for me. It's been
fun, gotta run. Thanks for the conversation.
.
|
|
|
| User: "%" |
|
| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 04:32:33 PM |
|
|
"neverchimera" <nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote in message
news:2dk5n39cklidrjei41d70ec16f0omev5gs@4ax.com...
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:41:32 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <qc24n3hq6f0feoitq1hpbpcp0l05l1nrt2@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> IMO, the [scientific] process involves suspension of faith.
->
->I suppose it does, since "faith" seems to mean the holding of
beliefs
->dogmatically, with an unwillingness to test or question them. If you
->want to call that a "belief system" in itself, fine, whatever. But
it's
->a "belief system" that allows any elements to be reevaluated and
->revised in light of new evidence and better theories.
I can dig that opinion.
->> Hey, look. I "read" (listened to) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
->> Maintenance two months ago. I found it totally understandable,
which
->> was kinda scary.
->
->Oh God. I vaguely remember that book as the ravings of a mentally
ill
->former philosophy student with a bitter grudge against his school.
It's
->been a very long time, though.
That's about right, except there were several schools he was Too Cool
to tolerate and a weird sabbatical in India. The dude was totally
bonkers when he wrote it in the early seventies. The bits about his
obsessiveness, self-consumption and dual personality, and how he
eventually cracked up, peaked my interest. His career change, the
things he saw on his motorcycle tour and dynamics with his son were
the best subplots. The CD series I listened to included an addendum
added in 2000-something. It was sad. There's a tragedy involved and it
made him more bonkers. I won't spoil it for those who don't know. If
anyone's curious, I'll Email them.
->> The ER will help you if you're shot because the staff there is
aware
->> of medical truth. If your DSL craps out, a technician who has
studied
->> the truth of fiberoptics, binary communication and electronics
will be
->> able to fix it.
->
->Playing this game of calling things "X truth" and "Y truth" is just
a
->way of protecting your favorite "Z truth" from being challenged and
->tested in the standard, rational, scientific ways described above.
I thought that was the nature of organized debate.
->There is no special "Truth of Fiber Optics", there's just a set of
more or
->less established truths concerning the behavior of optical fiber,
and
->it's a very different kind of set from the set you might call the
"Truth
->of The Tooth Fairy".
Eh, what? It was my way of agreeing that prayer won't fix an Internet
connection, a certified technician will. And I thought the squirrel
bit was a funny nonsequitur.
->Taking whatever package of "spiritual" dogma you
->want to believe and insulating it from rational evaluation by
insisting
->that the "belief system" of rational evaluation doesn't apply to it
just
->amounts to a refusal to subject it to any considerations that might
->indicate it's wrong. You wouldn't give your money to an ISP or any
other
->real world service that took that approach to diagnosing real world
->problems that really matter as they arise.
I'm an existentialist. That oughta raise your blood pressure a few
points. Sartre was batshit crazy and a nihilist, but his ideas
correlate with my version of batshit crazy. I debate from that
foundation.
->> Science and spirituality are different varieties of faith.
->
->So I've heard from any number of "spiritualists". People love to
trot
->out this slogan, it's short and snappy and no amount of pointing out
->what's wrong with it
It's your opinion there's something wrong with spirituality. Are you
an atheist or agnostic? Nothing wrong with either. If so, that's the
basis on which you're debating from.
->will diminish its sound-bitey appeal, so all I can
->say is, again, "whatever".
Agree to disagree?
->If you want to pick your beliefs the way you pick flavors of ice
cream,
No I don't. I pick them from ideas, try them out, keep the ones I
consider "truthful" and discard the ones I don't. Intimate
Experience(tm) is too valuable to me to approach it like a Newage
Sewage pinball game. My ideas keep me going through the lengthy
periods when I can't find any reasons to stay alive. I'm still alive.
That's a desirable cause-and-effect result, is it not?
->knock yourself out, but it's hard to miss the
->fact that people only take this approach to things that don't really
->matter, like whether or not you have an orange aura or a green aura.
I consider my approach to spirituality a lifelong learning process.
It's not a static mindset. It's the main reason I stopped being
exclusively Christian and chose Neo-Paganism. Most of it is full of
*****, Harry Potter wannabees and the like, but I find freedom and
expansion of wisdom within it. To each his or her own.
->Again, you wouldn't stay very long with an ISP or auto mechanic that
->took a "spiritual" approach to problems with their wares, and the
->reasons you wouldn't are instructive.
My dad was a mechanic. I preferred to fix cars within the extent of my
knowledge. The big problems were entrusted to a mechanic. Besides, I
have cable, not DSL. It's been reliable for nine years. I've only
needed to call for technicians three times; the disk supplied with
RoadRunner has adequate diagnostics to fix most software problems.
Those are rational decisions. So was installing a new and better power
supply in my PC. Spirituality had nothing to do with any of it.
->Anyway.
->
->> Psychiatry is lousy science and a total faith-breaker.
->
->Sad but largely true, at this point in history. There are, however,
some
->areas of neurobiology that actually seem to be producing potentially
->useful knowledge. I think medical treatment of depression will be a
lot
->better in a couple of hundred years, maybe even a couple of decades.
I agree. There's tremendously promising research going on. Future
treatments will be medically precise with fewer side effects and
decreased misery for patients. I love science as much as I love
spirituality. I have faith in both.
[here we go again!]
->> I hope you find your magic pill soon and feel better.
->
->Thanks. You, too, if your relentlessly dismissive attitude will let
you.
Eh, what? You don't know how many medications I've gone through in the
last twenty-five years. I'm sure you've had an equal share of 'em,
maybe more. Dismissive? How's that? Severe side effects just suck. I
tell my trusted doctor about them, consider his opinions based on his
medical training and try the next thing he suggests.
->> I'd rather be depressed with a fit body and blood test results
->> that make my general-practice doctor smile.
->
->Sigh. Guess it isn't likely to!
Exercise is a proven method to help ease the severity of depression
and Bipolar moodswings. Hard-driving cardio sessions, especially, help
me. The knee injury curtailed that outlet and my moods are ***** again.
I wasn't working out when when the injury happened. I was walking past
a construction site and twisted my leg on a hole in the sidewalk. It
didn't earn any gym-cred points, which is disappointing.
->Anyway[2], enough. The holiday wishes still stand, hope this finds
you
->well. Take care.
->
->Mark
Likewise. I'm going to end this ASD visit at the end of the week.
Long-term exposure to this place isn't beneficial for me. It's been
fun, gotta run. Thanks for the conversation.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "RGB" |
|
| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 06:02:20 PM |
|
|
In article <2dk5n39cklidrjei41d70ec16f0omev5gs@4ax.com>,
neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
I'm an existentialist. That oughta raise your blood pressure a few
points. Sartre was batshit crazy and a nihilist, but his ideas
correlate with my version of batshit crazy. I debate from that
foundation.
"Raise my blood pressure"? Chim, Chim, Chim... I guess I could borrow
my mother's gauge to test your theory, but really, the idea that you
get off on professing wacko beliefs, partly in the hope of inspiring
criticism that you can then revel in, isn't exactly surprising or
upsetting to me. I *would* like to ask: what do you think of Sartre's
claim that "slime is the agony of water"?
It's your opinion there's something wrong with spirituality.
Definitely, but I'm less interested right here with disputing any
so-called "spiritual" beliefs than with pointing out that even
professed "spiritualists" don't count on such beliefs to get them
through the day in the real world, relying instead on science-based
engineering, even while they babble on about different kinds of truth
and all that.
I remember being amused by the fact that the Christian Science "nurse"
I briefly went out with wouldn't take aspirin for a headache -- because
illness is an illusion and matter isn't real -- but she *did* put
gasoline in her car. "If matter isn't real," I would ask, "why do you
put gas in your car?" She would smile prettily and tell me that the car
wouldn't run without gas. (Professional Christian Scientists are
well-trained in the strategic deployment of pretty smiles and this kind
of "foggy" answer.)
Are you an atheist or agnostic? Nothing wrong with either. If so,
that's the basis on which you're debating from.
You really make it sound like it's just a matter of preferring vanilla
or chocolate ice cream. I, on the other hand, am coming from the bizarre
position that when you have a bunch of inconsistent doctrines, not
everybody can be right. Yes, Virchimia, I actually believe in the
possibility that someone can believe something and (gasp!) BE WRONG.
Seems "duh"-obvious enough to me, but for some reason the idea that
people can be wrong in what they believe, particularly in the
"spiritual" domain, is just appalling to some.
(In case you're about to deploy the traditional rejoinder that I am
somehow claiming to know everything and be infallible here, spare me.
I'm not.)
My ideas keep me going through the lengthy periods when I can't find
any reasons to stay alive. I'm still alive. That's a desirable
cause-and-effect result, is it not?
Sure. Might even be some evidence that you're on to something,
depending on exactly how the cause-and-effect thing works.
Exercise is a proven method to help ease the severity of depression
and Bipolar moodswings.
Indeed! And you know, it's good to see that this claim is less
guaranteed to draw flak than it used to be. Once Upon a Time in ASD, the
suggestion that exercise was helpful for treating depression would
immediately set off a round of protests that (1) "it didn't help ME",
(2) it's a way of "blaming us for our own depression", and even (3)
"it's part of an Evil Plot by the government to avoid having to provide
psychiatric healthcare" (the last is my favorite).
Resolved for 2008: better diet, get back to regular workouts, cardio at
least, maybe even strength. Beat the Reaper!
Long-term exposure to this place isn't beneficial for me. It's been
fun, gotta run. Thanks for the conversation.
Ditto from me on all points. Peace, Chim.
Mark
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Confessions of a Totally Heartless *****. |
26 Dec 2007 08:18:35 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:02:20 GMT, RGB <-@-.-> wrote:
->In article <2dk5n39cklidrjei41d70ec16f0omev5gs@4ax.com>,
-> neverchimera<nuhuh@donteven.com> wrote:
->
->> I'm an existentialist. That oughta raise your blood pressure a few
->> points. Sartre was batshit crazy and a nihilist, but his ideas
->> correlate with my version of batshit crazy. I debate from that
->> foundation.
->
->"Raise my blood pressure"? Chim, Chim, Chim... I guess I could borrow
->my mother's gauge to test your theory,
If your mom doesn't cooperate, I have a sphyg. with attached
stethoscope. My doc. ordered me to get one when I developed Stage II
Hypertension a year ago. High B/P is hereditary and I was expecting
it. I knew how to use a manual cuff, but it came with beginner's
instructions. I started medication right away and my B/P has been
ideal since. I only check once a week now. Want to borrow it? If you
don't return it, you owe me 30 bucks. That reminds me... it has a
free, lifetime recalibration warranty. Must be done every year. Need
to mail it off. There's a CNA in the building's health center who'll
take my readings. You can borrow it when it's mailed back.
-.but really, the idea that you
->get off on professing wacko beliefs, partly in the hope of inspiring
->criticism that you can then revel in, isn't exactly surprising or
->upsetting to me. I *would* like to ask: what do you think of Sartre's
->claim that "slime is the agony of water"?
That must've been during one of his Opium Periods.
->> It's your opinion there's something wrong with spirituality.
->
->Definitely, but I'm less interested right here with disputing any
->so-called "spiritual" beliefs than with pointing out that even
->professed "spiritualists" don't count on such beliefs to get them
->through the day in the real world, relying instead on science-based
->engineering, even while they babble on about different kinds of truth
->and all that.
I think it works and it's not hurting anyone. There's a highway spur
two blocks from my building. Faith is better than being splattered by
a tractor-trailer when life hurts so much that I want to end it. It's
also less annoying than the inpatient unit. What's the big deal? We
don't have to believe the same things. I respect your stance, respect
mine.
->I remember being amused by the fact that the Christian Science "nurse"
->I briefly went out with wouldn't take aspirin for a headache -- because
->illness is an illusion and matter isn't real -- but she *did* put
->gasoline in her car. "If matter isn't real," I would ask, "why do you
->put gas in your car?" She would smile prettily and tell me that the car
->wouldn't run without gas. (Professional Christian Scientists are
->well-trained in the strategic deployment of pretty smiles and this kind
->of "foggy" answer.)
My oldest sister (was? still is?) a Jehovah's Witness. She believes
(believed?) after the Rapture, they're all going to live forever as
perfect beings on Earth in rich people's houses once those eeeeevil,
uncleeeean rich people are consumed by hellfire. I kid you not. I told
her I wouldn't touch that idea with a ten-foot pole and she threw
something at me. I haven't spoken to her in years. When I think of her
now, my first idea is "I hope she got the hell out". My middle sister
got ensnared in it, too. A friend sent her to New York City to learn
the truth about JW's foundations. She immediately quit and went back
to being a mainstream Baptist. I grew up Baptist, the mainstream
versions aren't too weird and the music's pretty good.
At least my older sister was smart enough to bank her own blood and
plasma before having surgery. As a blood donor, JW beliefs about
transfusions make my head want to explode.
My grandmother told me about her youthful studies in Christian
Science. She quickly realized it was a cult and got the hell out.
My mom almost converted to Catholicism until she decided that praying
to dead people and statues didn't make any sense to her.
I left organized religion because it's mostly led by egotists, is rife
with politics and historically based in controlling populations so the
privileged classes can stay privileged. On rare occasions, there's a
little spirituality and hocus-pocus thrown in. Sincere believers rely
on Intimate Experience(tm), not what goes on in those fancy,
tax-exempt buildings. Nature is my church. It's pleasant, easily
accessible and no tithing is required.
Look. There's messed-up stuff out there that people adamantly believe
in. So what? Let 'em believe. Some folks don't believe in anything
spiritual. More power to 'em. There's milder stuff that makes life
enjoyable, bearable and imparts a sense of peace. I like the latter.
Deal.
->> Are you an atheist or agnostic? Nothing wrong with either. If so,
->> that's the basis on which you're debating from.
->
->You really make it sound like it's just a matter of preferring vanilla
->or chocolate ice cream.
It was a perfectly valid, logical question. Naturally, you went off on
a tangent. You amuse me to no end.
->I, on the other hand, am coming from the bizarre
->position that when you have a bunch of inconsistent doctrines, not
->everybody can be right. Yes, Virchimia,
I'm eating dinner. That new bastardization of my nick made me laugh so
hard, I almost choked on a piece of broccoli. Thank Whatever for
first-aid training and knowing how to do the Heimlich Maneuver on the
back of a chair. (Didn't need to, but almost.)
->I actually believe in the
->possibility that someone can believe something and (gasp!) BE WRONG.
So do I.
It seems you're trying to convince me to give up something I like, is
totally harmless and often prevents me from obliterating myself. I
don't impose it on anyone else. Guess what? You can't make me give it
up. No one can. I'll only give it up if I choose to. So there.
->Seems "duh"-obvious enough to me, but for some reason the idea that
->people can be wrong in what they believe, particularly in the
->"spiritual" domain, is just appalling to some.
It's not appalling to me. I gave examples.
->(In case you're about to deploy the traditional rejoinder that I am
->somehow claiming to know everything and be infallible here, spare me.
->I'm not.)
Never thought that. I think you have strong convictions, so do I and
never the twain shall meet. It's a classic RGB vs. Chimera Power
Struggle. We relate to each other like bighorn sheep in rutting
season. Blam! Blam! Blam! Both fall off the mountain. Epic Fail. It's
fun, though.
->> My ideas keep me going through the lengthy periods when I can't find
->> any reasons to stay alive. I'm still alive. That's a desirable
->> cause-and-effect result, is it not?
->
->Sure. Might even be some evidence that you're on to something,
->depending on exactly how the cause-and-effect thing works.
I can't explain it. I don't try. I don't know if I'm on to anything.
It just works for one individual on a planet of six billion-plus
humans.
->> Exercise is a proven method to help ease the severity of depression
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
