"%" <surfs@uniserve> wrote in message
news:10n3na2nqf1bn30@corp.supernews.com...

"Teilhard Knight" <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2te3g0F1uf6k9U1@uni-berlin.de...

"Whiskers" <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:52b842-e7a.ln1@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de...

On 2004-10-15, Teilhard Knight <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote:

"Whiskers" <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:l1m042-fc9.ln1@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de...

On 2004-10-13, Teilhard Knight <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote:

snip

I have had profound spiritual experiences, and there are things in
my
life
which would be too much of a coincidence to occur without divine
intervention. Still, I tend to consider the first as psychological
experiences and the second actually coincidences. Faith and other
related
phenomena seem to me as purely psychological. However, I need

that
psychological side of me. I am very spiritual, or try to be. It's
all
my
rational mind that prevents me from being mystical.

I don't believe that having a good (possibly correct) understanding
of
the
physical world, necessarily removes the possibility of a

aspect to life or existence or whatever you choose to call it. Nor
do

I

believe that an unquestioning belief in the literal truth of every

word

of
any book, is required for one to have a spiritual or religious

Nor
do I believe that belief (or unbelief, which is really the same
thing)
proves anything.

And I believe you are right. One can never be sure. It's just as I

would

like it to be. The mystical ideas about dying and reporting to God

getting another task on earth, simply make me feel tired. I am tired
of
suffering all my life and I do not want more of the same. I want to
remain
dead, flat dead.

I'm just not going to try and guess what 'comes after' or how, or if,

I'll

feel about things then.

I am not going to try either. What will come, will come.

--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial

Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox

and in the end , like always , i will win

Of course. God knows you always win.

--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial

Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox

On 2004-10-14, Alan Harding <Alan@harding.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <l1m042-fc9.ln1@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>, Whiskers
<catwheezel@operamail.com> writes

On 2004-10-13, Teilhard Knight <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote:

snip

I have had profound spiritual experiences, and there are things in my
life
which would be too much of a coincidence to occur without divine
intervention. Still, I tend to consider the first as psychological
experiences and the second actually coincidences. Faith and other
related
phenomena seem to me as purely psychological. However, I need badly
that
psychological side of me. I am very spiritual, or try to be. It's all
my
rational mind that prevents me from being mystical.

I don't believe that having a good (possibly correct) understanding of
the
physical world, necessarily removes the possibility of a non-physical
aspect to life or existence or whatever you choose to call it. Nor do I
believe that an unquestioning belief in the literal truth of every word
of
any book, is required for one to have a spiritual or religious faith.
Nor
do I believe that belief (or unbelief, which is really the same thing)
proves anything.

I don't see that believing in Occam's Razor (paraphrased as: there's no
reason take any but the simplest explanation that fits what's known) is
comparable with believing that a communion wafer is the flesh of
Christ.

Occam's razor is only a tool, it proves nothing - and using it is not
infallible either. As for the transsubstantiation debate, my position is
that if you believe, then it's true for you, and if you don't, then it
isn't, and it's not really essential to believe either way for one to
believe in God (or not) or to sincerely try to understand and follow the
teaching of Jesus (whatever you happen to believe about his nature or
reality).

On 2004-10-14, Alan Harding <Alan@harding.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <l1m042-fc9.ln1@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>, Whiskers
<catwheezel@operamail.com> writes

On 2004-10-13, Teilhard Knight <teilhk@privacy.net> wrote:

snip

I have had profound spiritual experiences, and there are things in my life
which would be too much of a coincidence to occur without divine
intervention. Still, I tend to consider the first as psychological
experiences and the second actually coincidences. Faith and other related
phenomena seem to me as purely psychological. However, I need badly that
psychological side of me. I am very spiritual, or try to be. It's all my
rational mind that prevents me from being mystical.

I don't believe that having a good (possibly correct) understanding of the
physical world, necessarily removes the possibility of a non-physical
aspect to life or existence or whatever you choose to call it. Nor do I
believe that an unquestioning belief in the literal truth of every word of
any book, is required for one to have a spiritual or religious faith. Nor
do I believe that belief (or unbelief, which is really the same thing)
proves anything.

I don't see that believing in Occam's Razor (paraphrased as: there's no
reason take any but the simplest explanation that fits what's known) is
comparable with believing that a communion wafer is the flesh of
Christ.

Occam's razor is only a tool, it proves nothing - and using it is not
infallible either. As for the transsubstantiation debate, my position is
that if you believe, then it's true for you, and if you don't, then it
isn't, and it's not really essential to believe either way for one to
believe in God (or not) or to sincerely try to understand and follow the
teaching of Jesus (whatever you happen to believe about his nature or
reality).

Science is skeptical, and I am tired of that skepticism. As you say, you can
never be sure. As soon as you finish something, there springs a whole lot of
questions to be answered. As soon as you finish a theory, there springs up a
phenomena which spoils everything. The only thing one can be certain is that
we will die, and not even that, the fact that all the people who ever
existed have died is not proof that I will die.

The fact that you exist because you remain as dust, I believe it only a
technical matter. What interest me is your example of remaining unconscious
and never waking up. I also believe death is that.