| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Bacon" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2006 05:31:56 PM |
| Object: |
Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
STARKE, Florida (AP) -- Death penalty opponents criticized the
execution of a convicted murderer who took more than half an hour to
die and needed a rare second dose of lethal chemicals.
Angel Nieves Diaz, 55, convicted of murdering a Miami topless bar
manager 27 years ago, appeared to grimace before dying Wednesday, 34
minutes after the first dose.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/14/diaz.execution.ap/index.html
.
|
|
| User: "elegy" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 06:12:08 AM |
|
|
long ago and far away, áñti-ëVêrYtHïñG <me@privacy.net> did say:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:32:50 -0500, elegy <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org>
wrote:
you know, that kind of thing absolutely baffles me. we can euthanize
animals in no time at all and very rarely with anything that looks at
all like distress. usually they just go to sleep. why isn't it that
way with people? occasionally we'll have to draw up a second dose, but
the pet is peacefully unconscious by then.
it's just an overdose of anesthetic.
Most vets use phenobarbital, a narcotic that when given in high doses causes
the heart to arrest (basically it stops beating). When a vet has to inject a
animal again, it's usually because the vet miscalculated the amount required
given the size of the animal, or in very rare cases, less scrupulous vets try
to save money by administering just a 'just enough' dose of phenobarbital.
actually most vets (at least here) use pentobarbital, but yeah. the
biggest reason i've seen for injecting an animal again is not because
the dosage was wrong but because the animal had poor circulation due
to old age or illness and the drug just wasn't moving through their
bloodstream the way it should. a second dose speeds things up for the
owner. nobody wants to see their pet in limbo.
Overdosing on prescription phenobarbital isn't that easy to do.The amount of
pills required means that the person attempting suicide will often vomit up
what is already in their stomach before they can kick in and do what you want
them to do (the body rejects poisons as quick as it can), therefore often
leaving the person who attempted suicide with severe organ damage rather than
death. The amount of phenobarbital administered in a lethal injection in
humans is considerably higher, usually ten times the amount required to kill
someone. Saying that, I have no idea why they don't use phenobarbital in
capital punishment. I have heard that it's possible to survive a lethal
dosage, especially if the person you are injecting has built an intolerance
to barbiturates through years of narcotic substance abuse, whether using
narcs as a recreational drug, or as a pain killer.
i hadn't thought of drug tolerence. i know of at least one vet who has
suicided with euthasol, so i'm sure there must be others.
no matter what drug they use, it just baffles me that it is,
apparently, so difficult.
of course, i'm just flat out against the whole thing, so maybe that's
part of why i find it all so troubling :-/
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
.
|
|
|
| User: "áñti-ëVêrYtHïñG" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
16 Dec 2006 04:20:07 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:12:08 -0500, elegy <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org>
wrote:
i hadn't thought of drug tolerence. i know of at least one vet who has
suicided with euthasol, so i'm sure there must be others.
I don't think it's that uncommon. I have heard of three cases locally (where
I lived in the UK) where a veterinarian has killed themselves through drug
overdose, and in all cases it was od'ing on pheno. The last case made
headline news, a vet od'd on enough pheno to kill 10 elephants.
A few years ago I had cause to take my dog to the vet. Walking into his
consulting room, I noticed that one of the windows in his surgery was boarded
up with a sheet of plywood. When I asked him what had happened? He told me
that someone had broken in and tried to raid the drugs cabinet. He went on to
tell me that thefts from veterinary surgeries aren't that uncommon. In most
cases it's users looking for regular barbiturates, but occasionally it is
someone in despair looking for a means to an end.
He was telling me that when it comes to having to put an animal to sleep, it
is the correct practice to remove only the amount of pheno required from the
safe, and no more. I don't know whether it is law here, but I know that all
the vets I've ever had dealing with store pheno in a commercial safe that is
almost impenetrable to anyone apart from an experienced safebreaker.
no matter what drug they use, it just baffles me that it is,
apparently, so difficult.
of course, i'm just flat out against the whole thing, so maybe that's
part of why i find it all so troubling :-/
I'm against the DP, but maybe my feelings would change if it happened to
someone I love...who knows.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:52:01 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:32:50 -0500, elegy <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org>
wrote:
you know, that kind of thing absolutely baffles me. we can euthanize
animals in no time at all and very rarely with anything that looks at
all like distress. usually they just go to sleep. why isn't it that
way with people? occasionally we'll have to draw up a second dose, but
the pet is peacefully unconscious by then.
it's just an overdose of anesthetic.
The procedure with people is different. I believe a high dose of potassium
is the actual death agent. A sedative is first given to knock the person
out, then an anesthetic is given to cut all voluntary motor activity. An
injection of potassium is a horribly painful way to die if you are
conscious.
But it is believed that there have been cases where the sedative wore off,
while the anesthetic didn't. So the person may have felt everything but
would have been unable to move or scream out in pain.
Whatever happened to good old hanging? A good drop, the neck snaps, and
there you go - instant death. Okay, sometimes they miscalculated and the
person's head came off. Well, they are still dead. They can always sew the
head back on for the funeral.
What astounds me is that some people feel that hanging is cruel and unusual
punishment. Huh? Hanging just happened to be one of the primary modes of
execution favored by the very men who wrote the words "cruel and unusual
punishment." Firing squads were another.
But the founding fathers weren't *****-whipped like most American men are
today.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bacon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 03:01:47 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:52:01 GMT, CyberDroog
<CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
Whatever happened to good old hanging?
The guillotine eliminated any doubt too...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "elegy" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 06:15:52 AM |
|
|
long ago and far away, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> did
say:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:32:50 -0500, elegy <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org>
wrote:
you know, that kind of thing absolutely baffles me. we can euthanize
animals in no time at all and very rarely with anything that looks at
all like distress. usually they just go to sleep. why isn't it that
way with people? occasionally we'll have to draw up a second dose, but
the pet is peacefully unconscious by then.
it's just an overdose of anesthetic.
The procedure with people is different. I believe a high dose of potassium
is the actual death agent. A sedative is first given to knock the person
out, then an anesthetic is given to cut all voluntary motor activity. An
injection of potassium is a horribly painful way to die if you are
conscious.
i think you're right. we killed one of my rats once the same way-
anesthetized her and then injected potassium, but we injected it right
into her heart. it stopped immediately.
But it is believed that there have been cases where the sedative wore off,
while the anesthetic didn't. So the person may have felt everything but
would have been unable to move or scream out in pain.
oh god that's horrible :(
Whatever happened to good old hanging? A good drop, the neck snaps, and
there you go - instant death. Okay, sometimes they miscalculated and the
person's head came off. Well, they are still dead. They can always sew the
head back on for the funeral.
What astounds me is that some people feel that hanging is cruel and unusual
punishment. Huh? Hanging just happened to be one of the primary modes of
execution favored by the very men who wrote the words "cruel and unusual
punishment." Firing squads were another.
But the founding fathers weren't *****-whipped like most American men are
today.
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rhiannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:23:49 PM |
|
|
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
.
|
|
|
| User: "%" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:26:53 PM |
|
|
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:elusnv$10r$1@news.datemas.de...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
it sure would throw a damper on the movie business
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rhiannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 02:15:34 PM |
|
|
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdadnV0C27Joax_YnZ2dnUVZ_oOonZ2d@giganews.com...
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:elusnv$10r$1@news.datemas.de...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
it sure would throw a damper on the movie business
Except an actor not really dying and a real person really dying are two
different things. At least to me.
--
Rhi
.
|
|
|
| User: "%" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 02:20:39 PM |
|
|
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eluvp0$c98$1@news.datemas.de...
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdadnV0C27Joax_YnZ2dnUVZ_oOonZ2d@giganews.com...
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:elusnv$10r$1@news.datemas.de...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged
any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
it sure would throw a damper on the movie business
Except an actor not really dying and a real person really dying are two
different things. At least to me.
--
Rhi
and therin lies the problem
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rhiannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 02:27:46 PM |
|
|
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZqadndalSoQTnh7YnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eluvp0$c98$1@news.datemas.de...
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdadnV0C27Joax_YnZ2dnUVZ_oOonZ2d@giganews.com...
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:elusnv$10r$1@news.datemas.de...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the
terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged
any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not
quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
it sure would throw a damper on the movie business
Except an actor not really dying and a real person really dying are two
different things. At least to me.
--
Rhi
and therin lies the problem
True. Good point.
--
Rhi
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rhiannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 02:26:38 PM |
|
|
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdadnV0C27Joax_YnZ2dnUVZ_oOonZ2d@giganews.com...
"Rhiannon" <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:elusnv$10r$1@news.datemas.de...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
--
"you don't have to eat the entire turd
to know that it's not a crab cake." (orson scott card)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Aside from my being against the death penalty, the witnessing part has
always made me uncomfortable. Seems to me there is something not quite
right about wanting to watch a person die, don't you think?
--
Rhi
it sure would throw a damper on the movie business
Oh, but you did remind me of a news story I saw on the web about the people
at Court TV television station and how their application to permit
executions to be televised was shot down in a unanimous decision that took
all of ten minutes to decide. I read that they plan to appeal. I found the
whole idea really disturbing. Justice is one thing but execution turned
into entertainment. There is a whole lot of sick on the sharp edge of that.
Don't you think? I'm curious.
--
Rhi
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gayle" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 04:10:58 PM |
|
|
Rhiannon wrote:
Oh, but you did remind me of a news story I saw on the web about the people
at Court TV television station and how their application to permit
executions to be televised was shot down in a unanimous decision that took
all of ten minutes to decide. I read that they plan to appeal. I found the
whole idea really disturbing. Justice is one thing but execution turned
into entertainment. There is a whole lot of sick on the sharp edge of that.
Don't you think? I'm curious.
There are some anti-death-penalty folks
(and some of them are at Court TV) who
advocate for "public" executions in the
belief that all it would take would be
one televised execution to end the debate.
Gayle
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rhiannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
16 Dec 2006 11:50:19 PM |
|
|
"Gayle" <gayleco@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:DoSdnaPeV7DvgB7YnZ2dnUVZ_s6onZ2d@rcn.net...
Rhiannon wrote:
Oh, but you did remind me of a news story I saw on the web about the
people at Court TV television station and how their application to permit
executions to be televised was shot down in a unanimous decision that
took all of ten minutes to decide. I read that they plan to appeal. I
found the whole idea really disturbing. Justice is one thing but
execution turned into entertainment. There is a whole lot of sick on the
sharp edge of that. Don't you think? I'm curious.
There are some anti-death-penalty folks (and some of them are at Court TV)
who advocate for "public" executions in the belief that all it would take
would be one televised execution to end the debate.
Gayle
End the debate for those who are in favour of execution? That's an
interesting thought. One of the things I found disturbing was the
producer's, dare I say, glee, over the potential ratings, which we all know
means profits. If the criminal cannot profit from his crime, and rightly
so, why should a television producer? It's all part of the same thing
really. The whole thing seemed to tap into the most base, most primitive
parts in us, and if we allow that to happen, then in a way, that convict
takes all of us down with him. IMHO of course. :-)
--
Rhi
.
|
|
|
| User: "Contrarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
17 Dec 2006 12:50:03 AM |
|
|
Rhiannon <rhianon@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Might I ask that the next thread along these lines
have a less graphic Subject with a spoiler warning?
This is the only post I've read in it.
End the debate for those who are in favour of execution? That's an
interesting thought. One of the things I found disturbing was the
producer's, dare I say, glee, over the potential ratings, which we all know
means profits. If the criminal cannot profit from his crime, and rightly
so, why should a television producer? It's all part of the same thing
really. The whole thing seemed to tap into the most base, most primitive
parts in us, and if we allow that to happen, then in a way, that convict
takes all of us down with him. IMHO of course. :-)
Excellent.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gayle" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
17 Dec 2006 07:26:49 PM |
|
|
Rhiannon wrote:
There are some anti-death-penalty folks (and some of them are at Court TV)
who advocate for "public" executions in the belief that all it would take
would be one televised execution to end the debate.
Gayle
End the debate for those who are in favour of execution? That's an
interesting thought. One of the things I found disturbing was the
producer's, dare I say, glee, over the potential ratings, which we all know
means profits. If the criminal cannot profit from his crime, and rightly
so, why should a television producer? It's all part of the same thing
really. The whole thing seemed to tap into the most base, most primitive
parts in us, and if we allow that to happen, then in a way, that convict
takes all of us down with him. IMHO of course. :-)
Well, they profit when a trial captures
the attention of people, too, and I
think it can be argued that paying
attention to crime, in general, does tap
into the base, primitive parts of us.
But, I also think it's a form of bearing
witness to what that base level is, in
order to keep evolving as a species. And
in order to figure out how to suppress
certain behavior, quite frankly. I want
cameras in the courtroom because I want
to see how we, as a people, arrive at an
approximation of an ideal called 'justice'.
As to the moronic glee of a tv
personality, well, that's what the
audience wants. Sad, but true, imo.
There's an online subscription version
of Court TV that has direct feeds from
several courtrooms, not the broadcast
carnival version. That's how I like it.
It's like watching paint dry. Seriously
serious.
Gayle
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bruce." |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:44:11 PM |
|
|
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
A few victims (family members of the killed) who have witnessed legal
injection have expressed anger. They said it was just like going to sleep.
They wanted to see the killer suffer before leaving this life. The death
wasn't the closure they were hoping for.
Bruce.
.
|
|
|
| User: "%" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:47:14 PM |
|
|
"Bruce." <bachastain@XNOSPAMXsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:8WCgh.754$Gw4.148@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
"elegy" <elegy@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:q945o2piiuo0iih00uj0dj3orck5628sd5@4ax.com...
we have such delicate sensibilities. we have to clean up the terrible
things we do, now, i guess. i wouldn't want to see somebody hanged any
more than i would want to see them lethally injected. ugh.
A few victims (family members of the killed) who have witnessed legal
injection have expressed anger. They said it was just like going to
sleep.
They wanted to see the killer suffer before leaving this life. The death
wasn't the closure they were hoping for.
Bruce.
and that's why i say ,
let them do their time
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bruce." |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 01:57:58 PM |
|
|
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ra2dnYbEqOcnZh_YnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com...
and that's why i say ,
let them do their time
Some end up doing their time in solitary confinement, let outside in a cage
for just one hour a day. Almost no human contact. I can't even imagine
staying sane in those conditions. It would be the worst punishment possible
as far as I'm concerned.
Bruce.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kirby Cook" |
|
| Title: Re: Executed killer took 34 minutes to die |
15 Dec 2006 02:29:39 PM |
|
|
elegy wrote:
long ago and far away, Bacon <rbkfour@yahoo.com> did say:
STARKE, Florida (AP) -- Death penalty opponents criticized the
execution of a convicted murderer who took more than half an hour to
die and needed a rare second dose of lethal chemicals.
Angel Nieves Diaz, 55, convicted of murdering a Miami topless bar
manager 27 years ago, appeared to grimace before dying Wednesday, 34
minutes after the first dose.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/14/diaz.execution.ap/index.html
you know, that kind of thing absolutely baffles me. we can euthanize
animals in no time at all and very rarely with anything that looks at
all like distress. usually they just go to sleep. why isn't it that
way with people? occasionally we'll have to draw up a second dose, but
the pet is peacefully unconscious by then.
it's just an overdose of anesthetic.
When I heard that inmates and others were suing the government claiming
that the lethal injection was cruel and unusual punishment, that
sounded *so* sensless that I did some research online. IMO, it
*should* be as you said, an overdose of sedative, simple and sure.
It's not. The method was apparently *engineered* by a prison doctor to
be, possibly and even probably (why else would we do it that way; the
evidence is the method itself) the most ghastly experience imaginable.
The fact that he took unusually long guranteed that he was in living
hell, fully conscious but unable to so much a twitch, with fire in
every conduit of his body, when he died.
Kirby
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
