All fear is a fear of loss in some way. Physical fear is a fear of
injury to the body or a threat to things necessary for it's survival.
Psychological fear is the same and yet different in that while there
is the possibility of loss there is no physical threat. The loss
comes in the form of a loss of dignity, loss of respect, loss of
reputation, loss of position, loss of poise, loss of the certain way
that things must be, etc., all of which are a loss of something to
which one is attached (tethered or tied) and hence dependent upon.
What one is dependent upon one seeks to protect, defend, maintain,
etc. because the experience of not-being is painful.
I have myself found that in all social contexts there is a necessity
upon experiencing myself as being a certain way, a certain thing,
someone in a certain way, being treated in a certain way. There is a
certain state or state of affairs that must be maintained, continued,
etc., a certain position I must occupy in relation to others, etc.
The not-being of all this is what I am afraid of and so there is a
desire for security, certainty, protection, guarantee, etc.
Sometimes the argument is put forward that fear is just a consequence
of thought projecting something that might happen and that the
solution to fear is just to not engage in that sort of mental
activity. Unfortunately the bodies ‘system' is rigged in such a way
that if something is genuinely perceived as a threat (physical or
psychological) it will just keep arising in thought until it is dealt
with. Particularly the fear of repetition of a painful experience.
What is a painful experience?
Obviously in the moment of a painful experience you do not attribute
what is happening to your cogency, potency, power, greatness, what a
magnificent and wonderful person you are, etc. It's all quite the
opposite. In, for example, the experience of humiliation you have a
not-being experience of being completely inferior in some way to, and
in front of, others.
The notion of being inferior is not something you can experience
through the senses alone - it requires participation of the mind in
the form of thought. By this I mean determining the applicability or
fit of a concept (in this case denoted by the word 'inferior') to
something according to a match between the criteria that must be met
for the concept to be applicable and the available evidence. The
process is roughly:
1. You have an idea ('I am inferior')
2. According to the evidence it is applicable.
3. The threshold from an idea to a belief is crossed via acceptance
and you take it to be what is, i.e. the truth. This is to say that you
have correctly (we are assuming) identified yourself as being
inferior, which is to say that you have identified yourself with being
inferior, which is effectively to say you have unified yourself with
being (or the concept of being) inferior, i.e. you and inferior have
become one and the same thing, i.e. you have now become inferior.
4. You experience yourself as inferior.
You could also throw in ‘You think and behave in accordance with being
inferior' just to be complete.
What makes for the experience of being inferior in the feeling sense
(is there any other sense?) is the fact that you really don't want to
be or be seen as inferior and hence you experience a sensation of
pronounced unpleasantness in the body. Without the ‘not wanting' to
be inferior or necessity placed upon being a certain way and not
another, it would just be an applicable idea without emotional impact
or affect. We could go into an argument about globally rating oneself
vs. just a particular incidence of ones behaviour but I don't think
that's the point here.
‘Inferior' here is an idea about ‘what I am' plus a judgement and the
result is painful. It is the judgement that is the ‘problem'. What
is considered inferior (and superior) varies according to context.
The meaning attached (in terms of how dreadful, shameful, sinful, etc.
something is) may be socially shared within a context but ultimately
is participated in and so given by the individual, i.e. the individual
has to take or have already taken on board, adopted, accepted that
meaning as fact, the truth, what is.
We (blindly) accept many things that our parents and teachers, etc.
tell us when we are little or adopt beliefs through wanting to belong
to our peer groups and this forms the basis for wanting to be or be
seen a certain way and not another and the degree of meaning
(necessity) we attach to it. As the years pass it gets increasingly
tangled and contradictory. The obvious solution is to just drop it
all, but the difficulty is we have lost track, we no longer know what
is it, what we are responding or ‘reflexing' to other than the
sensation.
DOG
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| User: "ise" |
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| Title: Re: FEAR |
19 Jul 2003 02:01:20 AM |
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(DOG) wrote in message news:<3910f684.0307060759.4d5d5b97@posting.google.com>...
All fear is a fear of loss in some way. ...
(CUT)> the experience of not-being is painful.
I have myself found that in all social contexts there is a necessity
upon experiencing myself as being a certain way, ...
(CUT) > Sometimes the argument is put forward that fear is just a
consequence
of thought projecting
(CUT) Particularly the fear of repetition of a painful experience.
What is a painful experience?
The notion of being inferior is not something you can experience
through the senses alone
(CUT)- it requires participation of the mind in
the form of thought. By this I mean determining the applicability or
fit of a concept (in this case denoted by the word 'inferior') to
something according to a match between the criteria that must be met
for the concept to be applicable and the available evidence. The
process is roughly:
1. You have an idea ('I am inferior')
2. According to the evidence it is applicable.
3. The threshold from an idea to a belief is crossed via acceptance
and you take it to be what is, i.e. the truth. This is to say that you
have correctly (we are assuming) identified yourself as being
inferior, which is to say that you have identified yourself with being
inferior, which is effectively to say you have unified yourself with
being (or the concept of being) inferior, i.e. you and inferior have
become one and the same thing, i.e. you have now become inferior.
4. You experience yourself as inferior.
You could also throw in ?You think and behave in accordance with being
inferior' just to be complete.
What makes for the experience of being inferior in the feeling sense
(is there any other sense?) is the fact that you really don't want to
be or be seen as inferior and hence you experience a sensation of
pronounced unpleasantness in the body. Without the ?not wanting' to
be inferior or necessity placed upon being a certain way and not
another, it would just be an applicable idea without emotional impact
or affect.
(CUT)
?Inferior' here is an idea about ?what I am' plus a judgement and the
result is painful. It is the judgement that is the ?problem'. What
is considered inferior (and superior) varies according to context.
The meaning attached (in terms of how dreadful, shameful, sinful, etc.
something is) may be socially shared within a context but ultimately
is participated in and so given by the individual, i.e. the individual
has to take or have already taken on board, adopted, accepted that
meaning as fact, the truth, what is.
(CUT)
As the years pass it gets increasingly
tangled and contradictory. The obvious solution is to just drop it
all, but the difficulty is we have lost track, we no longer know what
is it, what we are responding or ?reflexing' to other than the
sensation.
DOG
I admire your words. Just to see if I am in on the same point:
would you agree
1/ mind has a lot to do with the forgetting -consciousness about hurt
needs to be avoided not only by hormones, but to forget and start a
new episode mind must agree to let it start. I didnt found the right
expression, but the common thing about this is clear, the deal bt mind
and physics is not.
2/ to mirror a fa certain thing,
someone in a certain way, being treated in a certain way. There is a
certain state or state of affairs that must be maintained, continued,
etc., a certain position I must occupy in relation to others, etc.
The not-being of all this is what I am afraid of and so there is a
desire for security, certainty, protection, guarantee, etc.
ear one has not to go through fearing, but can just relie on spoken or other delivered word -concepts of the world are given in different forms and are different recepted, not only by different parts in one, but different due to the question: whom (right expression-see above)
3/ to avoid fear one needs either experience or trust and force to
cope with the unknown -common sense is go(o)d for some depending on
their feelings or their experiences or their consciousness
4/ social judgement about behaviour is not given by experiences, but
by law -dependent on the priorities of a living together and the rules
and rulers people need to agree with the context to a certain point.
This happens to be. The given years could show, that the incorporated
rules dont fit the person or the society at all.
There is always a question how to influence and referring to the above
and also your explanation, living in different worlds at the same time
and place then is balanced not individually but left to surroundings.
???eli
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| User: "preciosa" |
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| Title: Re: FEAR |
06 Jul 2003 07:45:56 PM |
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DOG <xsxsxs@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:3910f684.0307060759.4d5d5b97@posting.google.com...
All fear is a fear of loss in some way. Physical fear is a fear of
injury to the body or a threat to things necessary for it's survival.
Psychological fear is the same and yet different in that while there
is the possibility of loss there is no physical threat. The loss
comes in the form of a loss of dignity, loss of respect, loss of
reputation, loss of position, loss of poise, loss of the certain way
that things must be, etc., all of which are a loss of something to
which one is attached (tethered or tied) and hence dependent upon.
What one is dependent upon one seeks to protect, defend, maintain,
etc. because the experience of not-being is painful.
Sometimes it's fear of the unknown. I have a fear of change, yet I crave
it, yet, often things really remain the same, and I unconsciously choose
similar situations and familiarity for myself in the context of that change.
I have tried many times to overcome my fears, but I'm not always aware of
what I am doing. I think that becoming aware is important.
I have myself found that in all social contexts there is a necessity
upon experiencing myself as being a certain way, a certain thing,
someone in a certain way, being treated in a certain way. There is a
certain state or state of affairs that must be maintained, continued,
etc., a certain position I must occupy in relation to others, etc.
The not-being of all this is what I am afraid of and so there is a
desire for security, certainty, protection, guarantee, etc.
I think that I used to be that way much moreso. I think there is the fear
of lack of control. We are afraid of not being in control and anything
unfamiliar is a threat to that. I am trying to let that go now. I used to
think that people had to be a certain way and that there really was a right
way and a wrong way, but I have learned that there isn't, there is only now
and now is all we have. If it's not right now, it never will be.
Sometimes the argument is put forward that fear is just a consequence
of thought projecting something that might happen and that the
solution to fear is just to not engage in that sort of mental
activity. Unfortunately the bodies 'system' is rigged in such a way
that if something is genuinely perceived as a threat (physical or
psychological) it will just keep arising in thought until it is dealt
with. Particularly the fear of repetition of a painful experience.
It's a body sensation also. If you pay attention to the body when that
experience is happening, sometimes you can actually access what it is that
is creating that fear. I think that there is a difference between 'real'
threat and 'percieved' threat. Human beings suffer from the latter.
What is a painful experience?
Not having things the way you want them.
Obviously in the moment of a painful experience you do not attribute
what is happening to your cogency, potency, power, greatness, what a
magnificent and wonderful person you are, etc. It's all quite the
opposite. In, for example, the experience of humiliation you have a
not-being experience of being completely inferior in some way to, and
in front of, others.
Yes, seeing human fallibility is humbling. Pain can be a good pointer
toward learning about ourselves if we embrace it and listen to what it is
telling us about ourselves. I am starting to do that, to get to know
myself. The more in touch with myself I am, the more I can connect with
others around me. I can actually talk about my pain and sadness and offer
it to others to buffer me. I used to carry it within and just react, now I
can express it and not really expect anything other than a lightening of the
load by sharing it with the universe.
The notion of being inferior is not something you can experience
through the senses alone - it requires participation of the mind in
the form of thought. By this I mean determining the applicability or
fit of a concept (in this case denoted by the word 'inferior') to
something according to a match between the criteria that must be met
for the concept to be applicable and the available evidence. The
process is roughly:
1. You have an idea ('I am inferior')
2. According to the evidence it is applicable.
3. The threshold from an idea to a belief is crossed via acceptance
and you take it to be what is, i.e. the truth. This is to say that you
have correctly (we are assuming) identified yourself as being
inferior, which is to say that you have identified yourself with being
inferior, which is effectively to say you have unified yourself with
being (or the concept of being) inferior, i.e. you and inferior have
become one and the same thing, i.e. you have now become inferior.
4. You experience yourself as inferior.
I go to the extremes of feeling inferior to superior and this happens
regularly. I have bipolar tendencies, plus bipolar disorder so I fluctuate
quite a bit. It's beyond my control, but I can recognise this fact and not
act toward others in a way that I feel is hostile and lashing out as I used
to when I'm must moody. I feel now that my emotions are my responsibility
and my thoughts are too. I need to just let them be and be with them. They
exist and they are real, but I don't have to get wound up in them. I cannot
do this without medication because without it I lose contact with reality at
some point and I don't even realise that I am doing it. By that time it's
way too late and my mind is racing and I've gone!
You could also throw in 'You think and behave in accordance with being
inferior' just to be complete.
I never stay in one state long enough to really accomplish complete failure
or complete success. It's frustrating.
What makes for the experience of being inferior in the feeling sense
(is there any other sense?) is the fact that you really don't want to
be or be seen as inferior and hence you experience a sensation of
pronounced unpleasantness in the body. Without the 'not wanting' to
be inferior or necessity placed upon being a certain way and not
another, it would just be an applicable idea without emotional impact
or affect. We could go into an argument about globally rating oneself
vs. just a particular incidence of ones behaviour but I don't think
that's the point here.
I am treating feelings of inferiority by being honest with those around me.
If I feel bad, I tell them, I have bipolar disorder, so I tell them. I am
acting like a person that is not inferior and I intend to keep doing that.
'Inferior' here is an idea about 'what I am' plus a judgement and the
result is painful. It is the judgement that is the 'problem'. What
is considered inferior (and superior) varies according to context.
The meaning attached (in terms of how dreadful, shameful, sinful, etc.
something is) may be socially shared within a context but ultimately
is participated in and so given by the individual, i.e. the individual
has to take or have already taken on board, adopted, accepted that
meaning as fact, the truth, what is.
It's better to try not to use others reactions as a test of our ability.
It's better to try to get in touch with what actually makes us happy as
individuals. Most people are very far away from that. Depressed or not,
almost everyone has no idea what really matters to them. Most are trapped
in the if I get more things I'll be happy syndrome, but it's not true.
Happiness comes from acceptance of things the way they are in this very
moment.
We (blindly) accept many things that our parents and teachers, etc.
tell us when we are little or adopt beliefs through wanting to belong
to our peer groups and this forms the basis for wanting to be or be
seen a certain way and not another and the degree of meaning
(necessity) we attach to it. As the years pass it gets increasingly
tangled and contradictory. The obvious solution is to just drop it
all, but the difficulty is we have lost track, we no longer know what
is it, what we are responding or 'reflexing' to other than the
sensation.
At some point we have to leave the security of feeling that our elders know
better and realise that they are here just like us, just as confused, just
as scared, just as isolated and lonely and just as afraid. When we realise
our connection with humanity we can then give what we need for ourselves,
compassion for our own pain and suffering.
I have begun the process of disentangling myself by paying attention to my
body. It's the only thing that's real. I just pay attention to the
sensation and try not to get whisked away in the thoughts that accompany the
unpleasant or pleasant sensation. It's there, but it's not going to last,
it's transient, like the blossoms in spring, the coloured leaves in autumn,
the crisp heat of summer and puddles in winter.
Helen
I have an excellent therapist who is helping me to do this. I am on
medication for bipolar disorder so this helps too!!!!!! LOL
Helen
DOG
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