William Blake Jr. wrote:

humble.life wrote:

I find women to be dissmissive and happy to be illusion makers for the
sake of quick and easy security and happiness, regardless of who gets
written-off in the process. But i live in the uk and things may be
different here..

There are those, yes. There are also ones who are genuinely wonderful.
One doesn't write a poetry book (or at least I don't) for someone who
doesn't merit it.

But the part about illusion making is interesting. I've come up with
ways to use multiple illusions (reference points, or Galilean frames)
to approximate truth. I think that it can be of value.

but you're not just taking the nearest, easiest, agreeable thing to do
it with. you refine further and double-check.

many men are like this too. the "loser construct" is easy for anyone to
learn. simply find the quickest and closest reason to blame someone for
their own problems and punch it in.

ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com wrote:

verity wrote:

Ilya, for a man, you aint a bad sort IMHO ;)

Thank you! The people in my life are starting to think the same thing,
finally.

I think I understand where you're coming from on this, but I imagine it
won't go down very well with most women, especially in the States
maybe.
I think you are looking at the ideal 'bigger' picture but it depends on
where people are at.
It reminds me a bit of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, most people in
their micro & macro societies haven't got the luxury of trying for the
top, let alone glimpsing it.

ibshambat2...@hotmail.com wrote:

rememberallthis wrote:>

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Actually you can, if you use your mind. You can have it many ways.

:) I believe that's called masturbation - mental, physical,
psychological... nothing wrong with it though, in my view. But I find
real people infinitely more interesting and beautiful than idealized
ones.

If women are powerless and totally rely on men, you corner women to -
manipulation.

I do not wish for that at all. I celebrate good qualities in people,
and I choose to reward them. And the qualities of which I speak are not
about dependence; they are about being one's best.

If you think you can buy women to be warm to you, I doubt that's real
warmth. But if you think such deception floats your boat, by no means,
as long as you know it can also sink you. Suppressed emotions will
blow up in your face, you know.

Let's look at this in another way. Let's say you get paid by your
woman to be strong and macho, and nothing else. And you really need
the money! Let's say you get rewarded by speaking in low harsh voice,
and strut like a cowboy all the time. No showing of emotions of any
kind though. And certainly, most certainly, no crying or showing of
tenderness or none of those sissy emotions. See, those are not the
'good qualities' your woman would like to 'reward' and enhance in you.
She wants to breed a 'real' man out of you.

Well, can you do it? Probably. If you have to. Especially if you
need the 'reward', and have no other means of support.

A lot of men in the past had played such role. Society called for them
to act like that. But these men were pretty messed up and miserable.
Once in a while they need to make war, to destroy something, and
themselves along with it in order to escape. But I believe the
feminist movements in the past had freed some of these men of their
shackled roles.

So do you still want to 'reward' women to be who you want them to be?

If women are not free to get things done themselves,
they have to cunningly manipulate - you, to do it for them.

I am a firm believer in rights and have been so since I knew what
rights were.

Then I'm not sure why you are complaining about feminist ideas, if you
agree that women, like men, should be free to express who they are,
warm or not.

ibshambat2...@hotmail.com wrote:

rememberallthis wrote:>

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Actually you can, if you use your mind. You can have it many ways.

:) I believe that's called masturbation - mental, physical,
psychological... nothing wrong with it though, in my view. But I find
real people infinitely more interesting and beautiful than idealized
ones.

If women are powerless and totally rely on men, you corner women to -
manipulation.

I do not wish for that at all. I celebrate good qualities in people,
and I choose to reward them. And the qualities of which I speak are not
about dependence; they are about being one's best.

If you think you can buy women to be warm to you, I doubt that's real
warmth. But if you think such deception floats your boat, by no means,
as long as you know it can also sink you. Suppressed emotions will
blow up in your face, you know.

Let's look at this in another way. Let's say you get paid by your
woman to be strong and macho, and nothing else. And you really need
the money! Let's say you get rewarded by speaking in low harsh voice,
and strut like a cowboy all the time. No showing of emotions of any
kind though. And certainly, most certainly, no crying or showing of
tenderness or none of those sissy emotions. See, those are not the
'good qualities' your woman would like to 'reward' and enhance in you.
She wants to breed a 'real' man out of you.

Well, can you do it? Probably. If you have to. Especially if you
need the 'reward', and have no other means of support.

A lot of men in the past had played such role. Society called for them
to act like that. But these men were pretty messed up and miserable.
Once in a while they need to make war, to destroy something, and
themselves along with it in order to escape. But I believe the
feminist movements in the past had freed some of these men of their
shackled roles.

So do you still want to 'reward' women to be who you want them to be?

If women are not free to get things done themselves,
they have to cunningly manipulate - you, to do it for them.

I am a firm believer in rights and have been so since I knew what
rights were.

Then I'm not sure why you are complaining about feminist ideas, if you
agree that women, like men, should be free to express who they are,
warm or not.

Have you ever been underpaid due to your race or gender?