| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Hap Arnold" |
| Date: |
05 Jul 2004 01:26:33 PM |
| Object: |
Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
--
E Sempre l'Ora
--
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| User: "Pegetha" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
18 Jul 2004 12:16:23 AM |
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Considering he lets Bush and his crowd speak for themselves,...
--
Pegetha
“I think, therefore I am – I think.”
-Descartes Redux
"Hap Arnold" <hap.arnold@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q8hGc.22261$mN3.11180@lakeread06...
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
--
E Sempre l'Ora
--
.
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| User: "epicphart" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 12:10:49 AM |
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Hap Arnold wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
micheal moore rox, tells it how it is..and people dis him. some people
hate disgusting truths..
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 12:08:45 AM |
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"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB85D9.6050707@nahh.net...
Hap Arnold wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
micheal moore rox, tells it how it is..and people dis him. some people
hate disgusting truths..
so he does what i do and you do what they do , what a team we make
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| User: "epicphart" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 12:26:48 AM |
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% wrote:
"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB85D9.6050707@nahh.net...
Hap Arnold wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
micheal moore rox, tells it how it is..and people dis him. some people
hate disgusting truths..
so he does what i do and you do what they do , what a team we make
it would be cool working for micheal moore, hope hed pay better than
auto-workers wages :)
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 12:40:30 AM |
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"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB8998.9020301@nahh.net...
% wrote:
"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB85D9.6050707@nahh.net...
Hap Arnold wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
micheal moore rox, tells it how it is..and people dis him. some people
hate disgusting truths..
so he does what i do and you do what they do , what a team we make
it would be cool working for micheal moore, hope hed pay better than
auto-workers wages :)
everything pays better than grease monkey
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| User: "epicphart" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
18 Jul 2004 08:59:00 AM |
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% wrote:
"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB8998.9020301@nahh.net...
% wrote:
"epicphart" <nahhhYouDontWantIt@nahh.net> wrote in message
news:40EB85D9.6050707@nahh.net...
Hap Arnold wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
micheal moore rox, tells it how it is..and people dis him. some people
hate disgusting truths..
so he does what i do and you do what they do , what a team we make
it would be cool working for micheal moore, hope hed pay better than
auto-workers wages :)
everything pays better than grease monkey
even if i did work as a grease monkey, im able to work :) some people
can only dream of working.
damn i rock...
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
05 Jul 2004 02:44:00 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:26:33 -0400, "Hap Arnold" <hap.arnold@cox.net>
wrote:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
59, but who is counting?
Interesting. A bit long, but interesting.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
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| User: " SortaLily" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
05 Jul 2004 01:45:23 PM |
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which is one of the reasons i don't like moore. while i might agree with
some and mark that *some* of his poltics ..
he ruins it all by his over inflated ego, pompus 'tude .. and well just
being him.
"Hap Arnold" <hap.arnold@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q8hGc.22261$mN3.11180@lakeread06...
| http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
| 59, but who is counting?
|
| --
| E Sempre l'Ora
|
| --
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
05 Jul 2004 02:24:16 PM |
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"Hap Arnold" <hap.arnold@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q8hGc.22261$mN3.11180@lakeread06...
| http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
| 59, but who is counting?
|
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:45:23 -0400, SortaLily wrote:
which is one of the reasons i don't like moore. while i might agree
with some and mark that *some* of his poltics .. he ruins it all by his
over inflated ego, pompus 'tude .. and well just being him.
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
.
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| User: "epicphart" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 12:11:59 AM |
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Ivan Marsh wrote:
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
i like this portion..
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
06 Jul 2004 01:55:23 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:24:16 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
"Hap Arnold" <hap.arnold@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q8hGc.22261$mN3.11180@lakeread06...
| http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
| 59, but who is counting?
|
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:45:23 -0400, SortaLily wrote:
which is one of the reasons i don't like moore. while i might agree
with some and mark that *some* of his poltics .. he ruins it all by his
over inflated ego, pompus 'tude .. and well just being him.
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
Shouldn't the term "Bush administration" be replaced with "Every government
institution in the entire history of civilization"?
--
MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having
the quality of general expediency.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Thomas Dehn" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 01:51:25 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
Shouldn't the term "Bush administration" be replaced with
"Every government institution in the entire history of civilization"?
That depends on how bad one considers lies which serve
the purpose of providing justification to invade the
country the government always wanted to invade. Especially
when those lies are told to both the own population and
to foreign country leaders. More so when the lies are so poor
that its rather obvious they are lies, resp. the lies are
so stupid that they make the liars (such as Colin "Iraq has
10,000 tons of wmds and we know exactly where they are"
Powell and George "Iraq possesses nukes, and has aerial vehicles
which could drop those nukes on the US homeland" Bush) look stupid.
Once you make that a prime criterion, most governments
drop out of the contest because they never attempted
to invade another country. Or, at least their lies were better.
Thomas
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 03:28:34 PM |
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On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:51:25 +0200, "Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
Shouldn't the term "Bush administration" be replaced with
"Every government institution in the entire history of civilization"?
That depends on how bad one considers lies which serve
the purpose of providing justification to invade the
country the government always wanted to invade. Especially
when those lies are told to both the own population and
to foreign country leaders. More so when the lies are so poor
that its rather obvious they are lies, resp. the lies are
so stupid that they make the liars (such as Colin "Iraq has
10,000 tons of wmds and we know exactly where they are"
Powell and George "Iraq possesses nukes, and has aerial vehicles
which could drop those nukes on the US homeland" Bush) look stupid.
Once you make that a prime criterion, most governments
drop out of the contest because they never attempted
to invade another country. Or, at least their lies were better.
You at least have to include the Clinton administration. They all said
Iraq has WMD's also. They were also outlining plans for an Iraq invasion
as early as 1995.
--
OATH, n. In law, a solemn appeal to the Deity, made binding upon the
conscience by a penalty for perjury.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
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| User: "Thomas Dehn" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 04:09:37 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:51:25 +0200, "Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
The only line from the article that matters:
"Well there are plenty of lies from the Bush administration which should
concern everyone."
Shouldn't the term "Bush administration" be replaced with
"Every government institution in the entire history of civilization"?
That depends on how bad one considers lies which serve
the purpose of providing justification to invade the
country the government always wanted to invade. Especially
when those lies are told to both the own population and
to foreign country leaders. More so when the lies are so poor
that its rather obvious they are lies, resp. the lies are
so stupid that they make the liars (such as Colin "Iraq has
10,000 tons of wmds and we know exactly where they are"
Powell and George "Iraq possesses nukes, and has aerial vehicles
which could drop those nukes on the US homeland" Bush) look stupid.
Once you make that a prime criterion, most governments
drop out of the contest because they never attempted
to invade another country. Or, at least their lies were better.
You at least have to include the Clinton administration.
Billyboy Clinton, his most famous words being
"I did not have sex with that woman".
They all said Iraq has WMD's also.
Careful here. "Iraq has wmds" appears to have
been technically false for the last few years, but
it was not a lie; as of 1998 about 40-60 tons
of wmd materials were unaccounted for, and it is
still possible that relatively smallish amounts of substances which
would have been deadly 15 years ago are still buried under the sand,
albeit its likely that they have deteriorated so far that
they do not pose any danger anymore.
OTOH, "Iraq has 10,000 tons of wmds and we
know exactly where they are" and "Iraq possesses nukes,
and has aerial vehicles which could drop those nukes
on the US homeland" are both completely absurd.
Thomas
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 04:38:14 PM |
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On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:09:37 +0200, "Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
They all said Iraq has WMD's also.
Careful here. "Iraq has wmds" appears to have
been technically false for the last few years, but
it was not a lie; as of 1998 about 40-60 tons
of wmd materials were unaccounted for, and it is
still possible that relatively smallish amounts of substances which
would have been deadly 15 years ago are still buried under the sand,
albeit its likely that they have deteriorated so far that
they do not pose any danger anymore.
4-60 tons of WMD's. And it just evaporates. How convenient.
--
The second item in the liberal creed, after self-righteousness, is
unaccountability. Liberals have invented whole college majors - psychology,
sociology, women's studies - to prove that nothing is anybody's fault. No
one is fond of taking responsibility for his actions, but consider how much
you'd have to hate free will to come up with a political platform that
advocates killing unborn babies but not convicted murderers. A callous
pragmatist might favor abortion and capital punishment. A devout Christian
would sanction neither. But it takes years of therapy to arrive at the
liberal view.
- P.J. O'Roarke, Give War A Chance (1992)
.
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 05:05:42 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:38:14 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:09:37 +0200, "Thomas Dehn"
<thomas-usenet@arcor.de> wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
They all said Iraq has WMD's also.
Careful here. "Iraq has wmds" appears to have been technically false for
the last few years, but it was not a lie; as of 1998 about 40-60 tons of
wmd materials were unaccounted for, and it is still possible that
relatively smallish amounts of substances which would have been deadly
15 years ago are still buried under the sand, albeit its likely that
they have deteriorated so far that they do not pose any danger anymore.
4-60 tons of WMD's. And it just evaporates. How convenient.
....or perhaps they destroyed them like they were supposed to and claimed
to have done. Wouldn't that be ironic?
....and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
07 Jul 2004 06:10:45 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:38:14 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:09:37 +0200, "Thomas Dehn"
<thomas-usenet@arcor.de> wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
They all said Iraq has WMD's also.
Careful here. "Iraq has wmds" appears to have been technically false for
the last few years, but it was not a lie; as of 1998 about 40-60 tons of
wmd materials were unaccounted for, and it is still possible that
relatively smallish amounts of substances which would have been deadly
15 years ago are still buried under the sand, albeit its likely that
they have deteriorated so far that they do not pose any danger anymore.
4-60 tons of WMD's. And it just evaporates. How convenient.
...or perhaps they destroyed them like they were supposed to and claimed
to have done. Wouldn't that be ironic?
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
--
REPORTER, n. A writer who guesses his way to the truth and dispels it
with a tempest of words.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:38:14 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:09:37 +0200, "Thomas Dehn"
<thomas-usenet@arcor.de> wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
They all said Iraq has WMD's also.
Careful here. "Iraq has wmds" appears to have been technically false
for the last few years, but it was not a lie; as of 1998 about 40-60
tons of wmd materials were unaccounted for, and it is still possible
that relatively smallish amounts of substances which would have been
deadly 15 years ago are still buried under the sand, albeit its likely
that they have deteriorated so far that they do not pose any danger
anymore.
4-60 tons of WMD's. And it just evaporates. How convenient.
...or perhaps they destroyed them like they were supposed to and claimed
to have done. Wouldn't that be ironic?
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 02:23:35 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and Germany that are
acting like they never did a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
--
HERMIT, n. A person whose vices and follies are not sociable.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 03:42:02 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:23:35 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious.
You might be surprised how few people believe that we sold them anything.
It's Russia, France, and Germany that are
acting like they never did a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want
to avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
True.
I'm supposed to be able to trust my own country though. I don't expect to
be able to trust Russia, France or Germany. I'd like to, but I don't
expect to.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
.
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 03:50:12 PM |
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"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.08.20.42.02.969447@you.now...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:23:35 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious.
You might be surprised how few people believe that we sold them anything.
It's Russia, France, and Germany that are
acting like they never did a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want
to avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
True.
I'm supposed to be able to trust my own country though. I don't expect to
be able to trust Russia, France or Germany. I'd like to, but I don't
expect to.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
your own country is the cause of why you can't trust anything ,
.
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 04:28:28 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:50:12 -0700, % wrote:
"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.08.20.42.02.969447@you.now...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:23:35 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes
Russia, France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious.
You might be surprised how few people believe that we sold them
anything.
It's Russia, France, and Germany that are acting like they never did
a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want to avoid the expense of
trying to make it right.
True.
I'm supposed to be able to trust my own country though. I don't expect
to be able to trust Russia, France or Germany. I'd like to, but I don't
expect to.
your own country is the cause of why you can't trust anything.
Yes, yes... of course we are the cause of all the world's problems and
everything that any other country does. No other country ever does
anything questionable. Boo-fucking-whooo!
I don't understand why America is held to a standard higher than any other
country ever has been.
Sure would be interesting if the Soviets had prevailed in the cold war.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
.
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 04:35:11 PM |
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"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.08.21.28.25.558311@you.now...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:50:12 -0700, % wrote:
"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.08.20.42.02.969447@you.now...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:23:35 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes
Russia, France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious.
You might be surprised how few people believe that we sold them
anything.
It's Russia, France, and Germany that are acting like they never did
a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want to avoid the expense of
trying to make it right.
True.
I'm supposed to be able to trust my own country though. I don't expect
to be able to trust Russia, France or Germany. I'd like to, but I don't
expect to.
your own country is the cause of why you can't trust anything.
Yes, yes... of course we are the cause of all the world's problems and
everything that any other country does. No other country ever does
anything questionable. Boo-fucking-whooo!
I don't understand why America is held to a standard higher than any other
country ever has been.
Sure would be interesting if the Soviets had prevailed in the cold war.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
then everyone would be out of potatoes
.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 11:58:14 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:28:28 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:50:12 -0700, % wrote:
your own country is the cause of why you can't trust anything.
Yes, yes... of course we are the cause of all the world's problems and
everything that any other country does. No other country ever does
anything questionable. Boo-fucking-whooo!
I don't understand why America is held to a standard higher than any other
country ever has been.
Sure would be interesting if the Soviets had prevailed in the cold war.
Considering the number of people the U.S. has protected from totalitarian
governments or outright dictators, it's amazing that some people can focus
only on the negative things. It's usually people, and entire countries,
who wouldn't lift a finger to help anybody.
--
We are here on earth to do good to others. What the others are here for
I don't know.
- W. H. Auden (1907-1973)
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
08 Jul 2004 11:55:36 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:42:02 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:23:35 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now>
wrote:
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious.
You might be surprised how few people believe that we sold them anything.
Well there's no accounting for the gullible.
It's Russia, France, and Germany that are
acting like they never did a thing wrong. Which is logical if you want
to avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
True.
I'm supposed to be able to trust my own country though. I don't expect to
be able to trust Russia, France or Germany. I'd like to, but I don't
expect to.
Trusting your government is an unreasonable expectation when you can't
trust the people who elect that government. There are too many conflicting
interests. And not just what some like to think of as the usual suspects.
I abhor any simplistic version of current events that places all the blame
on oil, for example. Though oil is *a* reason. Any vital economic tie can
be a reason for war if one of the partner countries, or an entire region,
becomes unstable.
I don't think even most Hollywood liberals would like to see the oil
completely cut off tomorrow. Yet they continue to ***** about our
dependence on oil, when they are every bit as dependent as anyone else.
They blame "Big Oil" for the mess. But I don't see the accusers completely
ridding themselves of a need for the stuff. No, they drive Hybrid cars and
feel a sense of self-satisfaction over simply *slowing* the use of an
irreplaceable commodity. Then they hop on a private jet without even
considering what makes it's engines work.
In the end, they are just as responsible as everyone else. That includes
responsibility for the foreign policy involved in maintaining a vital
economic tie with Arab nutballs.
And that's just oil. Add in the part about supporting the existence of
Israel and you have another great division.
--
If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think
little of robbing; and from robbing, he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-
breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
- Thomas DeQuincy
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| User: "Thomas Dehn" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
09 Jul 2004 12:49:08 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and
Germany that are acting like they never did a thing wrong.
My offer still stands. If you can provide proof of a
German citizen or a German company providing
wmds to Saddam, proof which can be expected
to hold at court, I'll file charges and enforce
that it comes to a trial (provide that the crime
took not place so long ago that the perpetrators
can no lorger be charged with it).
Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
The "rest of the world" simply does not
approve of the US way of "trying to make it right",
because it is ridiculously expensive, costs many lifes,
but nevertheless does not work.
Thomas
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
09 Jul 2004 02:27:12 PM |
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:49:08 +0200, "Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:35:57 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:10:45 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:05:42 -0500, "Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and
Germany that are acting like they never did a thing wrong.
My offer still stands. If you can provide proof of a
German citizen or a German company providing
wmds to Saddam, proof which can be expected
to hold at court, I'll file charges and enforce
that it comes to a trial (provide that the crime
took not place so long ago that the perpetrators
can no lorger be charged with it).
How can you take anything to trial when the government is immune from
prosecution?
Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
The "rest of the world" simply does not
approve of the US way of "trying to make it right",
because it is ridiculously expensive, costs many lifes,
but nevertheless does not work.
It certainly did work. Saddam is no longer the leader of Iraq.
--
DISOBEDIENCE, n. The silver lining to the cloud of servitude.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Thomas Dehn" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
09 Jul 2004 10:53:47 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:49:08 +0200, "Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and
Germany that are acting like they never did a thing wrong.
My offer still stands. If you can provide proof of a
German citizen or a German company providing
wmds to Saddam, proof which can be expected
to hold at court, I'll file charges and enforce
that it comes to a trial (provide that the crime
took not place so long ago that the perpetrators
can no lorger be charged with it).
How can you take anything to trial when the government
is immune from prosecution?
The German government is not immune from prosecution,
and even if they were, we replaced the Kohl government
in 1998, and the Schroeder government is likely
to be gone by 2006 at the latest.
But anyways, since 1945 the (West) German government never had any
wmds, thus its pretty much impossible that the (West)
German government provided wmds to Saddam.
In case you can provide proof that a (West) German government
possessed wmds, we can get them on possession
of wmds, you don't even have to prove that they
provided them to Saddam. Would not even have to
get to court, the outrage would destroy them.
Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
The "rest of the world" simply does not
approve of the US way of "trying to make it right",
because it is ridiculously expensive, costs many lifes,
but nevertheless does not work.
It certainly did work. Saddam is no longer the leader of Iraq.
It "works" just as putting the Taliban government in
place in Afghanistan "worked".
Thomas
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
10 Jul 2004 12:55:08 AM |
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"Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:2l9e0fFai7n5U3@uni-berlin.de...
x-no-archive: yes
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:49:08 +0200, "Thomas Dehn"
<thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes
Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and
Germany that are acting like they never did a thing wrong.
My offer still stands. If you can provide proof of a
German citizen or a German company providing
wmds to Saddam, proof which can be expected
to hold at court, I'll file charges and enforce
that it comes to a trial (provide that the crime
took not place so long ago that the perpetrators
can no lorger be charged with it).
How can you take anything to trial when the government
is immune from prosecution?
The German government is not immune from prosecution,
and even if they were, we replaced the Kohl government
in 1998, and the Schroeder government is likely
to be gone by 2006 at the latest.
But anyways, since 1945 the (West) German government never had any
wmds, thus its pretty much impossible that the (West)
German government provided wmds to Saddam.
In case you can provide proof that a (West) German government
possessed wmds, we can get them on possession
of wmds, you don't even have to prove that they
provided them to Saddam. Would not even have to
get to court, the outrage would destroy them.
Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
The "rest of the world" simply does not
approve of the US way of "trying to make it right",
because it is ridiculously expensive, costs many lifes,
but nevertheless does not work.
It certainly did work. Saddam is no longer the leader of Iraq.
It "works" just as putting the Taliban government in
place in Afghanistan "worked".
Thomas
but the purpose wasn't to stop Saddam from leading Iraq ,
it was to remove his weapons of mass destruction ,
and he never did have any so it was just another American head hunt ,
and the CIA admitted they were wrong in saying Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction ,
and now the senate has debunked what the CIA has said ,
so just wait for what happens next ,
we'll see the CIA saying , " no we're right " ,
and the senate saying , " no , we're right , "
and then the CIA will have to wage war against the senate ,
so one of them can prove the other is wrong ,
and that will only be decided when one of the two opposing factors ,
removes the other from power in other words America will ,
wage war against America and they won't stop until ,
America removes America from power to prove they are right
.
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| User: "Alan Harding" |
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| Title: Re: Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 |
10 Jul 2004 01:40:38 AM |
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In message <10ev17cghio4sae@corp.supernews.com>, %
<surfs@uniserve.?.invalid> writes
"Thomas Dehn" <thomas-usenet@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:2l9e0fFai7n5U3@uni-berlin.de...
"CyberDroog" <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:49:08 +0200, "Thomas Dehn"
<thomas-usenet@arcor.de>
wrote:
...and let's not forget who sold them those WMDs.
I won't, if you care to provide a complete list which includes
Russia,
France, and Germany.
and the U.S.
I assumed that was obvious. It's Russia, France, and
Germany that are acting like they never did a thing wrong.
My offer still stands. If you can provide proof of a
German citizen or a German company providing
wmds to Saddam, proof which can be expected
to hold at court, I'll file charges and enforce
that it comes to a trial (provide that the crime
took not place so long ago that the perpetrators
can no lorger be charged with it).
How can you take anything to trial when the government
is immune from prosecution?
The German government is not immune from prosecution,
and even if they were, we replaced the Kohl government
in 1998, and the Schroeder government is likely
to be gone by 2006 at the latest.
But anyways, since 1945 the (West) German government never had any
wmds, thus its pretty much impossible that the (West)
German government provided wmds to Saddam.
In case you can provide proof that a (West) German government
possessed wmds, we can get them on possession
of wmds, you don't even have to prove that they
provided them to Saddam. Would not even have to
get to court, the outrage would destroy them.
Which is logical if you want to
avoid the expense of trying to make it right.
The "rest of the world" simply does not
approve of the US way of "trying to make it right",
because it is ridiculously expensive, costs many lifes,
but nevertheless does not work.
It certainly did work. Saddam is no longer the leader of Iraq.
It "works" just as putting the Taliban government in
place in Afghanistan "worked".
but the purpose wasn't to stop Saddam from leading Iraq ,
it was to remove his weapons of mass destruction ,
and he never did have any so it was just another American head hunt ,
and the CIA admitted they were wrong in saying Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction ,
and now the senate has debunked what the CIA has said ,
so just wait for what happens next ,
we'll see the CIA saying , " no we're right " ,
and the senate saying , " no , we're right , "
and then the CIA will have to wage war against the senate ,
so one of them can prove the other is wrong ,
and that will only be decided when one of the two opposing factors ,
removes the other from power in other words America will ,
wage war against America and they won't stop until ,
America removes America from power to prove they are right
I thought the original reason was that Saddam was training Al Quaida
fighters, only he never did, being (violently) opposed to religious
nutters. The story's changed so often since that I've lost track of what
was said to justify the war before it started.
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
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