| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Scott" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2003 10:57:35 PM |
| Object: |
going to church tomorrow |
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
--
X-No-Archive: Yes is in the headers.
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| User: "Used2Be" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
17 Nov 2003 10:54:14 AM |
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"Scott" <swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:swithrow-1511032257350001@7a-92.ccrtc.com...
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
I understand what you are saying but I also want to point out that you bear
some responsibility in this, Scott. Are you only going to church to get
sympathy from the other members, or are you going so that you can become a
part of a group of people who love each other and who love God? If it's
only about "what's in it for me?" then you are sure to be disappointed. I'm
not trying to make you feel badly, Scott, because I do understand how much
it hurts to be rejected. But I also want you to be willing to "give" as
much as you expect the others to "give" to you. When you look for ways to
bless other peoples lives instead of sitting around and waiting for them to
bless yours, then you will find more peace and comfort than you have ever
felt before. What we give comes back to us tenfold. And that doesn't mean
monetarily!!!
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
A "human" put it to you that way, Scott. Not God. A human being who is
imperfect and just as capable of making mistakes as you are. Christians
aren't perfect, Scott. If someone told you this, they are sadly misinformed
and probably in as much pain as you are. Yes, God does want you to go to
church. But He doesn't force you to go, and He doesn't bring evil into your
life if you don't go. But evil *will* come into our lives if we don't have
the faith and strength to turn it away. That is one reason God wants you in
church and around other believers. So you can acquire the tools you need in
order to fight back when pain and evil threatens to destroy your life. But
God wants you to choose to go to church of your own free will. Why would He
want to force you to go to church? Would we want to force people to be
friends with us? To love us? To be with us? What kind of joy is there in
having friends who are only our friends because we forced them to be?
Because we caused them pain unless they agreed to be our friends? Would
that be a friendship that we cherished and got joy out of? No! And God is
the same. He is not interested in having Christians come to church only
because they feel like they have to! He wants us to come because we WANT
to come!!!! When we begin worshipping God out of love and gratitude instead
of out of guilt, then we finally begin to experience the peace and comfort
that He promises us.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
God doesn't take things away from you, Scott. Life does that. Satan does
that. Our choices in life can often do that to us as well. We have to take
responsibility for alot of our own pain. And we have to find strength to
live with the pain that we didn't cause. And it's God who gives us hope in
spite of our pain and losses. That is what God does, Scott. He gives us
that hope. And He is the greatest gift giver imaginable. It all depends on
your perspective, hun.
I'm praying for you, Scott. That you will find a loving church, and that
you will also learn how to be a giver as well as a receiver. And that you
will find peace.
Hugs,
used2be
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| User: "Scott" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
18 Nov 2003 09:18:32 AM |
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"Used2Be" <used2be@nowhere.com> wrote:
I understand what you are saying but I also want to point out that you bear
some responsibility in this, Scott. Are you only going to church to get
sympathy from the other members, or are you going so that you can become a
part of a group of people who love each other and who love God? If it's
only about "what's in it for me?" then you are sure to be disappointed.
i want to go back to church so i can try to re-energize my faith. i feel
so empty and directionless now that even when i pray i simply don't know
what to say or feel. God may not mind, but i do. if i am to pray, i want
it to come from my heart and not my mind, because as i'm sure you know,
the mind plays tricks. the mind can tell me that praying is an act of
desperation, or an act of guilt, or fear, or whatever. if i feel that
way, my prayers feel weak and superficial, if i can bring myself to pray
at all. if it comes from my heart, i know it's real and will feel more
comfortable asking God for anything, even if it's just to say i'm sorry.
that has always been the hardest part of maintaining a relationship with
God. It's always been in my head, and people such as i've described
numerous times here can screw with my head to the point where i forget
what's in my heart. it seems that i never get fed up with God, but i
easily get fed up (and in some cases hurt) with pious people who think
they've got it all figured out and want to force me to do things their
way, on their terms, and of course at their church.
i also would just like to feel like i belong somewhere again. my wife
has abandoned me, the bulk of my family has rejected me, and i feel
completely cast aside.
i was invited to church last night by someone who i care a lot about and
have great respect for. i was moved and happy to have been invited,
because it was a genuine invitation motivated by compassion and concern
for me, not control and/or filling one more seat at church like a trophy.
i gladly and humbly accepted the offer and i'm really looking forward to
going. it will be nice to go and somewhere where i know i am wanted.
I'm praying for you, Scott. That you will find a loving church, and that
you will also learn how to be a giver as well as a receiver. And that you
will find peace.
thank you so very much.
scott
--
X-No-Archive: Yes is in the headers.
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| User: "Jamal Chapultapec" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
15 Nov 2003 11:02:59 PM |
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(Scott) wrote in
news:swithrow-1511032257350001@7a-92.ccrtc.com:
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will
give me the longest available period of time before they get fed up
with me and my moods and don't want me there anymore.
Jesus rejected you.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me
just like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some,
my present situation is happening because i quit going to church last
time, and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least
thats how it was put to me.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop
going again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
You'll lose the ability to *****.
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
16 Nov 2003 05:00:18 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:57:35 -0600,
(Scott) wrote:
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
God is not restricted to a particular building.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
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| User: "Just Ginny" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
16 Nov 2003 11:06:04 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:57:35 -0600,
(Scott) wrote:
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
Boy, can I relate to this. I almost went to church this morning, too -
even got out the door and into my car. Not out of the driveway,
though.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
You were obviously at the wrong church. But I might not be the right
person to talk to, since I'm completely off God these days.
At the church I attended for 20 years, the minister didn't understand
depression. Most of the congregation didn't understand it, either. The
ones who made the effort are still my friends. I moved away from that
town, though, and I can't go back there to church because my ex and
his new-wife-to-be go there.
I stopped going to that church when it was too uncomfortable to
continue, the way you describe. I think we may have had similar
experiences.
You know what's really odd, though? That minister retired, and now he
and I are pretty good friends.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
The kind of God I would like to believe in wouldn't take things away
from you if you stop going to church. I'm one of those people who
thinks that sometimes you can get closer to "God" (the spiritual side
of yourself) away from church, doing things that are meaningful to
you.
--
Ginny
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| User: "Indigo Moon Man" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
16 Nov 2003 12:05:05 PM |
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Scott <swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> spake thusly:
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
God does not make people suffer as punishment. We all have to suffer the
consequences of our actions but that does not constitute punishment from
God. If we repent of our sins God is quick to forgive us. But being
treated badly by other church folks is not your fault and it's not God
punishing you either. It's misguided people filled with self-righteousness
that are looking down their noses at others and they will answer to God for
their actions if they do not repent and change their ways. Just forget
those kind of people and focus on working on your personal relationship with
God.
--
My beliefs:
http://www.upci.org/doctrine
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
17 Nov 2003 08:06:30 AM |
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"Indigo Moon Man" <indigomoon@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:bp8e9f$1m26fc$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de...
<snip>
God does not make people suffer as punishment.
<snip>
and they will answer to God for
their actions if they do not repent and change their ways. >
<snip>
How can you possibly re-rectify this *****?
-Dan
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| User: "Used2Be" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
17 Nov 2003 10:29:13 AM |
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"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote in message
news:vrhlfa1cmsovc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Indigo Moon Man" <indigomoon@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:bp8e9f$1m26fc$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de...
<snip>
God does not make people suffer as punishment.
<snip>
and they will answer to God for
their actions if they do not repent and change their ways. >
<snip>
How can you possibly re-rectify this *****?
-Dan
Dan, God does *not* make people suffer. Evil makes people suffer. Poor
decisions and free will cause suffering. Not God. Life isn't a bed of
roses and God never promised that it would be. Because of evil and our own
free will, life is full of consequences and pain. But there is also hope
and beauty. And He promises that He will help us through the bad parts, and
that what is coming after this life is so incredibly awesome that there are
no words to describe it. And our time on earth is over in the blink of an
eye anyway, but eternity in heaven is forever.
On the other hand, eternity in hell is forever as well. And yes we do have
to answer to God one day. Did we follow His instructions for salvation? If
we did not, then there will be "hell" to pay. It is that simple. God does
not give us evil and pain as punishment on this earth. We brought that on
ourselves. He offers us an eternal hope in heaven instead. But if we do
not follow His instructions, there will only be eternal death in hell. That
is what Indigo meant by repenting to God and changing our ways. But
salvation doesn't mean we suddenly become perfect and free from pain. Far
from it. But it does give us faith and hope and gratitude so that we can
endure anything on this earth. But without salvation, there is no hope.
It's as simple as that.
u2b
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
18 Nov 2003 11:18:13 AM |
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"Used2Be" <used2be@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tH6ub.63159$Mc.57251@twister.austin.rr.com...
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote in message
news:vrhlfa1cmsovc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Indigo Moon Man" <indigomoon@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:bp8e9f$1m26fc$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de...
<snip>
God does not make people suffer as punishment.
<snip>
and they will answer to God for
their actions if they do not repent and change their ways. >
<snip>
How can you possibly re-rectify this *****?
-Dan
Dan, God does *not* make people suffer.
I agree. Fact is "gods/devils/spirits/ghosts/etc." do not make anything
happen at all in this world as far as anyone has ever been able to
determine. If you have any evidence to the contrary, beyond hearsay or
anecdotal, please feel free to present it.
Evil makes people suffer.
Please define evil and how a descriptive *word/concept* actually *causes*
anyone to do
anything. Perhaps you mean something that defines *bad* makes people do
*badly*?
Please explain coherently if possible.
Poor decisions and free will cause suffering.
Do you mean *all* poor decisions and *all* acts of free will, always and
invariably,
cause suffering? Or maybe you mean that some decisions and acts of freewill
*may* cause suffering no matter how well intentioned they started? Can a
poor decision ever result in unintended benefits? I don't follow your
reasoning on this. How can suffering be the result of something which we
have less control over than 'God' or chance does?
Not God. Life isn't a bed of
roses and God never promised that it would be.
When you tell me what 'god' promised, are you telling me that you heard that
he told somebody something that you want to believe 'He/She' said, or did
you hear it directly yourself.?If you heard it directly yourself, will you
blame me or think that I should be punished forever for not being able to
accept every claim which I hear espoused. Even when the one making the claim
swears on a stack of bibles that it's the gods honest truth? Is it possible
for people to get things wrong? Is it possible for people to actually
mislead others for many different purposes? Please help me understand better
how it is that you determine when and what you will believe, and when and
why you choose not to believe certain claims made by others in the past or
present. For example; why do you not believe in Buddha? Is that teaching
*bad*? Is it not possible for a moral and ethical Buddhist to get to heaven?
Do you reject alternate belief systems because you didn't grow up where it
was automatically accepted by most others around you?
You know the Mormon's believe that the gold tablets are the direct word of
God in these later days. Why are so many of those souls convinced this is
undisputable fact? You might want to look at their Book sometime. Why is
your book the *inspired* word and theirs is only to themselves? How do you
know?
The Book of Mormon is amazing to me and confirms my suspicions that secretly
writing a complete work of fiction in a manner which many people are
perfectly willing to accept as fact, remains not only possible,but seemingly
an evolutionary requirement of some human psyches. These people are willing
to stake their lives and the lives of other people on the validity of this
book!? But then, so are the Taliban and their religion! I'm not making any
other comparison to their respective religions or behaviors here.
I consider it is easier to *believe* than it is to question and think. I
just can't determine how to believe (to accept without proof) in anything
which I cannot share reliably with others without asking them to discard
their brain in order to also accept. If one is willing to surrender their
reasoning in order to believe in something, what can that possibly be worth
to anyone else?
Because of evil and our own
free will, life is full of consequences and pain. But there is also hope
and beauty.
How do you determine cause and effect of the *bad* and the *good*? Is there
a direct relationship? Who determines what will be called *good* and what
will be called *bad*? Is correlation the same as causation? You know the old
saying "Good people can do good things and bad people can do bad things, but
it takes religion for good people to do bad things." Thought you'd like
that one;~). What is the proof of religion causing more good behavior than
bad behavior?
And He promises that He will help us through the bad parts,
and
that what is coming after this life is so incredibly awesome that there
are
no words to describe it. And our time on earth is over in the blink of an
eye anyway, but eternity in heaven is forever.
It is just as much my right to choose not to believe this as it is for you
to believe whatever you choose. There is no difference whatsoever on this
Earth between our rights and our individual inherent worthiness beyond what
we do in the world. And we will both find out eventually what happens later
if anything ( the data are clear in that regard, we all have been born and
we all die. at least that's been the experience so far). In the meantime,
your convictions carry no more weight than mine, and to the public at large
nothing counts for much which cannot be mutually recognized by the senses
and logic.
On the other hand, eternity in hell is forever as well. And yes we do
have
to answer to God one day.
But not to you or anyone else on earth in this ultimate moral sense, right?
Did we follow His instructions for salvation?
If
we did not, then there will be "hell" to pay. It is that simple. God
does
not give us evil and pain as punishment on this earth. We brought that on
ourselves. He offers us an eternal hope in heaven instead. But if we do
not follow His instructions, there will only be eternal death in hell.
So what is that to anyone??? A veiled threat? An ominous prediction? Is it
anyone's business but our own? Are you going to offer to help me with my
sinfulness? If so, please permit me to decline your offer without your
thinking any less of me as a human being.
That
is what Indigo meant by repenting to God and changing our ways. But
salvation doesn't mean we suddenly become perfect and free from pain. Far
from it. But it does give us faith and hope and gratitude so that we can
endure anything on this earth. But without salvation, there is no hope.
It's as simple as that.
u2b
Good for you. I don't begrudge of you any of your warmth and fuzziness. If
it helps you, go for it!
The bottom line is simply this; don't tell us what you would impose on us to
believe, tell us coherently *why* we should believe what you preach. How can
we learn any repeatable truth, how we can improve our behavior, etc. in
factual, understandable and temporal terms? How can we be sure of what we
are told without being caught up in some never-never land of paranormal,
mythical and superstitious claims made by infamously unreliable humans? How
can we know better whether or not others will be able to confirm that which
we accept as reality if it is not common to everyone's five physical senses
in these our four common dimensions? Without reason there is no hope. It's
as simple as that.
Nothing personal you know. Just my rant of the day. Good luck however you
choose to look at it.
-Dan
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| User: "Used2Be" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
18 Nov 2003 11:02:59 PM |
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"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote in message
news:vrkl2ol0v9bu38@corp.supernews.com...
"Used2Be" <used2be@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tH6ub.63159$Mc.57251@twister.austin.rr.com...
Dan, God does *not* make people suffer.
I agree. Fact is "gods/devils/spirits/ghosts/etc." do not make anything
happen at all in this world as far as anyone has ever been able to
determine. If you have any evidence to the contrary, beyond hearsay or
anecdotal, please feel free to present it.
My evidence is the Bible. It's not hearsay and definitely not anecdotal.
I'm sure I won't convince you in one quick response, but here is one link
with some info as to why I believe...
http://www.tftw.org/Articles/science.html
I do not have time to reply as I wish I could to your entire email. I can
send you links for now but that is the best I can do at this moment. How I
wish I had time to discuss each and every point with you. I really do! If
you truly and honestly would like a response, I will have more time towards
the end of the week.
http://www2.tftw.org/_private/tftw_list_articles.asp
Good luck to you, Dan.
used2be
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
19 Nov 2003 09:16:24 AM |
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Used2be,
I too have less time than I would like these days.
I did glance at your reference links and can see that we have no grounds for
any further meaningful discussions (i.e.; different definitions and such).
Perhaps the most civil thing to do at this impasse is to agree to disagree,
and keep future messages more to topic and less about personal beliefs. The
topic of depression has so many possible influences and views that it is
difficult to know what is appropriate for everyone entering the site. I
guess each person seeking relief or shared company here will have to sort
out what best applies for their interests. For my part I accept that many
will be here for input that is not rational IMHO. So let's hope the audience
can decide for themselves. However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization. That is if something one believes is
germane to the point it will probably go unchallenged by most folks, if, on
the other hand, it is more an attempt at conversion, "salvation", or
miraculous cures, it will undoubtedly create the environment for hostilities
and disruption, detracting from the usefulness of the site. Thanks for your
interest.
-Dan
"Used2Be" <used2be@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:7QCub.2093$Ek.1574@twister.austin.rr.com...
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote in message
news:vrkl2ol0v9bu38@corp.supernews.com...
"Used2Be" <used2be@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tH6ub.63159$Mc.57251@twister.austin.rr.com...
Dan, God does *not* make people suffer.
I agree. Fact is "gods/devils/spirits/ghosts/etc." do not make anything
happen at all in this world as far as anyone has ever been able to
determine. If you have any evidence to the contrary, beyond hearsay or
anecdotal, please feel free to present it.
<snip>
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| User: "Used2Be" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
19 Nov 2003 02:37:30 PM |
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"Dan Hall" wrote
Used2be,
I too have less time than I would like these days.
"Life" has a way of getting in the way, doesn't it? :-)
I did glance at your reference links and can see that we have no grounds
for
any further meaningful discussions (i.e.; different definitions and such).
Fair enough. But I never mind chatting with anyone about things that are
important to them and/or me, so don't think I'm blowing you off.
Perhaps the most civil thing to do at this impasse is to agree to
disagree,
and keep future messages more to topic and less about personal beliefs.
That's why we usually spoiler headings with things such as "religion,
politics, SI, etc." so that people can choose whether or not they wish to
read the post. To some of us, like me, it is my personal beliefs that make
the depression bearable. I can't manage to get through the days without my
faith. It would be hard for me to discuss depression without talking about
what works for me. But again, spoilers in the headings are helpful to those
who wish to stay away from topics that do not interest them or that trigger
them. For instance, I try my best to stay away from any heading with the
spoiler "politics." :-) I'm not always successful, but I do my best to
steer clear of those. <grin>
The
topic of depression has so many possible influences and views that it is
difficult to know what is appropriate for everyone entering the site. I
guess each person seeking relief or shared company here will have to sort
out what best applies for their interests.
There ya go! :) Which again is why it is so very important to use spoilers
in our headings when necessary.
For my part I accept that many
will be here for input that is not rational IMHO. So let's hope the
audience
can decide for themselves.
Like I said in another recent "reply" post, it helps to treat this newsgroup
the same way we do in Al-Anon..."take what you like and leave the rest."
However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization. That is if something one believes is
germane to the point it will probably go unchallenged by most folks, if,
on
the other hand, it is more an attempt at conversion, "salvation", or
miraculous cures, it will undoubtedly create the environment for
hostilities
and disruption, detracting from the usefulness of the site.
Most folks ignore the blatant "proselyzing" posts. It's almost like
avoiding sales calls at times! But if we are responding to a thread that
someone else began, then it should be perfectly acceptable to post our
feelings and beliefs about whatever the subject of the post is.
Thanks for your
interest.
No problem! Thank you for being a gentleman.
u2b
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| User: "Scott" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
19 Nov 2003 10:16:50 PM |
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In article <vrn2acp4id4ef1@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote:
However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization.
if a person seeking faith asks for help from someone who has faith,
what's the harm? i posted my original message because i knew there were
people here who posess faith and would help me.
why do you try to make me feel like it's not the right thing to do?
the best thing to happen to me recently was an invitation to church by
someone i care about and respect, but that fact has been all but lost to
the people i intended to share it with. :(
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X-No-Archive: Yes is in the headers.
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
20 Nov 2003 08:09:47 AM |
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Hi Scott,
Thanks for letting me know how you feel. I did go off on some ranting there
but I thought that the thread was being responded to by a variety of
opinions where I tried to make mine known as well. It's free (my opinion
that is, so you gotta take it for what it is worth;~)!
I guess I better re-read your original post Scott. I interpreted your
meaning totally differently than the way I read your latest post. If I took
something from the first message that implied you weren't happy with your
experience regarding many religious folks and their treachery so far in your
life, then I misunderstood your purpose.
When I hear what seems to me to be a cry for help out of the darkness of
depression, I am occasionally fooled into thinking that the depressed mood
may be getting some of it's fuel from misunderstanding and superstition. I
then do the best that I can to shed some rational light on the matter from
my point of view. Rationality is what saved my life while the church shunned
me. I have met just as many 'good' (and 'bad') folks in church as I ever did
in taverns! Rationality and the ability to learn remain my best hope for the
betterment (and perhaps any extended future whatsoever!) of all humankind..
Sorry if I offended you with my comments.Good luck with your depression and
in your search for a supporting community where you may feel more
comfortable. There are people of faith whom are capable of demonstrating for
you that not all individuals of any predefined 'group' are alike. Those
caring people who are sincere will accept you and not purposely try to
'place any rocks in your path', I am sure.
-Dan
..**
"Scott" <swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bphf7i211ep@enews3.newsguy.com...
In article <vrn2acp4id4ef1@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote:
However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization.
if a person seeking faith asks for help from someone who has faith,
what's the harm? i posted my original message because i knew there were
people here who posess faith and would help me.
why do you try to make me feel like it's not the right thing to do?
the best thing to happen to me recently was an invitation to church by
someone i care about and respect, but that fact has been all but lost to
the people i intended to share it with. :(
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X-No-Archive: Yes is in the headers.
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| User: "Scott" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
20 Nov 2003 11:36:27 AM |
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In article <vrpipekvctso97@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote:
I guess I better re-read your original post Scott. I interpreted your
meaning totally differently than the way I read your latest post. If I took
something from the first message that implied you weren't happy with your
experience regarding many religious folks and their treachery so far in your
life, then I misunderstood your purpose.
you read it right. pious and condescending people get in my face and it
throws a bucket of cold water on my faith. but it's the people i get
sick of, not the faith. there are people here who help me remember that
the people and the faith are separate things. i lose that distinction
sometimes, and it's especially hard when the people dumping on me are
family members who i should be able to instinctively trust.
Sorry if I offended you with my comments.Good luck with your depression and
in your search for a supporting community where you may feel more
comfortable. There are people of faith whom are capable of demonstrating for
you that not all individuals of any predefined 'group' are alike. Those
caring people who are sincere will accept you and not purposely try to
'place any rocks in your path', I am sure.
don't worry about it. your kind and considered reply tells me you're not
out to make anyone uncomfortable.
scott
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X-No-Archive: Yes is in the headers.
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
20 Nov 2003 12:22:03 PM |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:09:47 -0500, "Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net>
wrote:
I interpreted your
meaning totally differently
oh that never happens around here.
:-*)
--
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If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
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| User: "Tracy Barber" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
20 Nov 2003 01:03:53 PM |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:22:03 GMT, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:09:47 -0500, "Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net>
wrote:
I interpreted your
meaning totally differently
oh that never happens around here.
:-*)
We need a tongue in cheek emoticon around here... :^)
Tracy Barber
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| User: "Indigo Moon Man" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
19 Nov 2003 10:44:54 PM |
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Scott <swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> spake thusly:
However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization.
if a person seeking faith asks for help from someone who has faith,
what's the harm? i posted my original message because i knew there were
people here who posess faith and would help me.
why do you try to make me feel like it's not the right thing to do?
the best thing to happen to me recently was an invitation to church by
someone i care about and respect, but that fact has been all but lost to
the people i intended to share it with. :(
Just ignore the naysayers. There are always gonna be people around that
ridicule religion and anyone talking about religion. Don't allow them to
devalue your relationship with God.
--
Our Daily Bread Devotional:
http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/odb/odb.shtml
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
20 Nov 2003 12:24:08 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:44:54 -0700, "Indigo Moon Man"
<indigomoon@bonbon.net> wrote:
Scott <swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> spake thusly:
However, I do maintain that this is not the best
place for religious proselytization.
if a person seeking faith asks for help from someone who has faith,
what's the harm? i posted my original message because i knew there were
people here who posess faith and would help me.
why do you try to make me feel like it's not the right thing to do?
the best thing to happen to me recently was an invitation to church by
someone i care about and respect, but that fact has been all but lost to
the people i intended to share it with. :(
Just ignore the naysayers. There are always gonna be people around that
ridicule religion and anyone talking about religion. Don't allow them to
devalue your relationship with God.
yeah, what he said. Faith can be a very very very very positive thing
in one's life.
--
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If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
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| User: "Indigo Moon Man" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
17 Nov 2003 06:18:16 PM |
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Used2Be <used2be@nowhere.com> spake thusly:
How can you possibly re-rectify this s**t?
-Dan
Dan, God does *not* make people suffer. Evil makes people suffer. Poor
decisions and free will cause suffering. Not God. Life isn't a bed of
roses and God never promised that it would be. Because of evil and our
own free will, life is full of consequences and pain. But there is also
hope and beauty. And He promises that He will help us through the bad
parts, and that what is coming after this life is so incredibly awesome
that there are no words to describe it. And our time on earth is over in
the blink of an eye anyway, but eternity in heaven is forever.
On the other hand, eternity in hell is forever as well. And yes we do
have to answer to God one day. Did we follow His instructions for
salvation? If we did not, then there will be "hell" to pay. It is that
simple. God does not give us evil and pain as punishment on this earth.
We brought that on ourselves. He offers us an eternal hope in heaven
instead. But if we do not follow His instructions, there will only be
eternal death in hell. That is what Indigo meant by repenting to God and
changing our ways. But salvation doesn't mean we suddenly become perfect
and free from pain. Far from it. But it does give us faith and hope and
gratitude so that we can endure anything on this earth. But without
salvation, there is no hope. It's as simple as that.
Thank you for this. You answered him better than I could have.
--
My beliefs:
http://www.upci.org/doctrine
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: going to church tomorrow |
16 Nov 2003 05:58:23 PM |
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X-No-Archive: Yes
In alt.support.depression on Sunday 16 Nov 2003 4:57 am, Scott
<swithrow@no.spam.newsguy.com> wrote:
a different church. hopefully one where no one knows me. that will give me
the longest available period of time before they get fed up with me and my
moods and don't want me there anymore.
That is not inevitable, not by a long chalk.
then it will be too uncomfortable to continue, and they'll scorn me just
like the last church seems to. funny thing is, according to some, my
present situation is happening because i quit going to church last time,
and this is God's way of making sure i suffer for it. at least thats how
it was put to me.
That's *****, at best.
i wonder what will be left for God to take away from me if i stop going
again. it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left.
I believe God does not turn his back, ever.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
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