| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"alvintchase" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2004 02:19:42 PM |
| Object: |
Homeless problem |
In the city where I live there are so many(literally) homeless
people...It's so sad...often I give them change.somemtimes I have to
be a little tougher,for my own safety,now that I live in the
city.However,I try to at least be polite,give them a kind word...
.
|
|
| User: "Whateverafter" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
03 Jan 2004 05:05:31 PM |
|
|
Subject: Homeless problem
From: (alvintchase)
Date: 1/3/2004 2:19 PM Central America Standard Time
Message-id: <c1029ba7.0401031219.6ac40ef8@posting.google.com>
In the city where I live there are so many(literally) homeless
people...It's so sad...often I give them change.somemtimes I have to
be a little tougher,for my own safety,now that I live in the
city.However,I try to at least be polite,give them a kind word...
I recently got news of a family associated with my religion, who were trying
to help this homeless man. They would give him rides to where he needed to go
for assistance, , would feed him, etc. ; and then he killed them all, a mother
and her two sons who were young men.
then he stole their car, and was seen later walking up and down a city
street ,
all bloody, begging police to shoot him.
it was very sad to read about.
it was in the Orange county , California papers.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 03:29:21 AM |
|
|
The sad truth is that great majority of homeless people are mentally
ill, junkies, or both, and a breeding ground for crime. This reality
clashes with the media picture of homeless families in shelters, but
while the media picture sells a lot more papers, it's way off.
The best way to help the homeless people, and the rest of us, is to
put them into a locked medical treatment facility. This would solve a
lot of problems, but it is unattractive to the more liberal end of the
political spectrum, so I don't think it will happen. And I think
that's a shame, because a lot of people who need help, won't get it.
If any newsgroup should understand how the demons of mental illness
can twist minds, it would be this one.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
"Whateverafter" <whateverafter@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040103180531.15352.00002497@mb-m03.aol.com...
Subject: Homeless problem
From: (alvintchase)
Date: 1/3/2004 2:19 PM Central America Standard Time
Message-id: <c1029ba7.0401031219.6ac40ef8@posting.google.com>
In the city where I live there are so many(literally) homeless
people...It's so sad...often I give them change.somemtimes I have
to
be a little tougher,for my own safety,now that I live in the
city.However,I try to at least be polite,give them a kind word...
I recently got news of a family associated with my religion, who
were trying
to help this homeless man. They would give him rides to where he
needed to go
for assistance, , would feed him, etc. ; and then he killed them
all, a mother
and her two sons who were young men.
then he stole their car, and was seen later walking up and down a
city
street ,
all bloody, begging police to shoot him.
it was very sad to read about.
it was in the Orange county , California papers.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Deminimii" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 10:29:27 AM |
|
|
Subject: Re: Homeless problem
From: "Nom dePlume"
The sad truth is that great majority of homeless people are mentally
ill, junkies, or both, and a breeding ground for crime. This reality
clashes with the media picture of homeless families in shelters, but
while the media picture sells a lot more papers, it's way off.
The best way to help the homeless people, and the rest of us, is to
put them into a locked medical treatment facility. This would solve a
lot of problems, but it is unattractive to the more liberal end of the
political spectrum, so I don't think it will happen. And I think
that's a shame, because a lot of people who need help, won't get it.
If any newsgroup should understand how the demons of mental illness
can twist minds, it would be this one.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
In SF, approx. 70% of the homeless are addicts. It is estimated that 30-50% of
the homeless also suffer from mental illness.
Unlike most other counties which provide General Relief in the form of small
cash stipends and the rest in services, SF gives out $320 to $395 cash, which
the homeless use to buy drugs and alcohol. (What a shock!)
Under the Care Not Cash program, the homeless in SF would instead receive
housing (preferably pernament and not simply a bed in a shelter) and services
like drug treatment and only $59 in cash. Opposition by the so called homeless
activists and the left has been/is fierce. The SF city counsel refused to pass
it. A year ago, when presented as an initiative to the voters of SF, it passed
60/40. It was struck down last May by a judge who ruled only the Board of
Supervisors -not the voters -have the authority to enact this reform.
Subsequent attempts this fall to get the city supervisors to pass the measure
have also failed.
And that is why there are so many homeless is SF and why so many of them die
from OD and/or acute alcoholism.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
10 Jan 2004 12:52:23 AM |
|
|
"Deminimii" <deminimii@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040104112927.21782.00001343@mb-m26.aol.com...
Subject: Re: Homeless problem
From: "Nom dePlume"
The sad truth is that great majority of homeless people are
mentally
ill, junkies, or both, and a breeding ground for crime. This
reality
clashes with the media picture of homeless families in shelters,
but
while the media picture sells a lot more papers, it's way off.
The best way to help the homeless people, and the rest of us, is to
put them into a locked medical treatment facility. This would solve
a
lot of problems, but it is unattractive to the more liberal end of
the
political spectrum, so I don't think it will happen. And I think
that's a shame, because a lot of people who need help, won't get
it.
If any newsgroup should understand how the demons of mental illness
can twist minds, it would be this one.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
In SF, approx. 70% of the homeless are addicts. It is estimated that
30-50% of
the homeless also suffer from mental illness.
Unlike most other counties which provide General Relief in the form
of small
cash stipends and the rest in services, SF gives out $320 to $395
cash, which
the homeless use to buy drugs and alcohol. (What a shock!)
....
And that is why there are so many homeless is SF and why so many of
them die
from OD and/or acute alcoholism.
I figured there was some perverse incentive behind the large
panhandler population in San Francisco. Thanks for clarifying what it
is.
Big problem in Berkely, too, from my occasional drives through. I
wouldn't be surprised if similar incentives were at work.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "wombn" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 12:54:27 PM |
|
|
On 04 Jan 2004 16:29:27 GMT, (Deminimii) wrote:
Subject: Re: Homeless problem
From: "Nom dePlume"
The sad truth is that great majority of homeless people are mentally
ill, junkies, or both, and a breeding ground for crime. This reality
clashes with the media picture of homeless families in shelters, but
while the media picture sells a lot more papers, it's way off.
The best way to help the homeless people, and the rest of us, is to
put them into a locked medical treatment facility. This would solve a
lot of problems, but it is unattractive to the more liberal end of the
political spectrum, so I don't think it will happen. And I think
that's a shame, because a lot of people who need help, won't get it.
If any newsgroup should understand how the demons of mental illness
can twist minds, it would be this one.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
In SF, approx. 70% of the homeless are addicts. It is estimated that 30-50% of
the homeless also suffer from mental illness.
One of those addicts (just started recovery) told me never to give him
or any beggar cash.
Unlike most other counties which provide General Relief in the form of small
cash stipends and the rest in services, SF gives out $320 to $395 cash, which
the homeless use to buy drugs and alcohol. (What a shock!)
Under the Care Not Cash program, the homeless in SF would instead receive
housing (preferably pernament and not simply a bed in a shelter) and services
like drug treatment and only $59 in cash. Opposition by the so called homeless
activists and the left has been/is fierce. The SF city counsel refused to pass
it. A year ago, when presented as an initiative to the voters of SF, it passed
60/40. It was struck down last May by a judge who ruled only the Board of
Supervisors -not the voters -have the authority to enact this reform.
Subsequent attempts this fall to get the city supervisors to pass the measure
have also failed.
grrrrrrrr!
And that is why there are so many homeless is SF and why so many of them die
from OD and/or acute alcoholism.
It's criminal, IMO.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Naomi Darvell" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 12:37:57 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
Deminimii wrote inter alia:
In SF, approx. 70% of the homeless are addicts. It is estimated that 30-50%
of
the homeless also suffer from mental illness.
Even if you assume the addicts would not be homeless any more if they got
clean, there's 30% that are homeless for other reasons, and that's a lot of
people.
Homelessness is a vicious cycle, because being homeless such hard work in
itself that it doesn't leave you much time to work on getting employment or
otherwise getting a foothold out. And there's a terrible stigma attached to it.
I was going into a Starbucks in downtown Chicago and there was a guy outside
selling Streetwise, the homeless newpaper. I gave him a few bucks extra. He
followed me into Starbucks to buy some food with the money. The guy behind the
counter was visibly irritated and served him quickly to be rid of him. What the
*****? He was presentable and clearly sober. He was also not pushing his papers
aggressively or anything that would make people avoid the Starbucks.
I caught myself thinking that he shouldn't be spending what little he had on
cookies and buns at Starbucks, but that's the thing about homelessness. He was
selling papers in the financial district on a Sunday morning. There were no
cheap eats to be had anywhere around. Maybe he should have brought some food
with him, but then you'd have to carry it or put it somewhere. And if you're
living in a shelter or sleeping under a bridge, you're chronically
sleep-deprived and it's probably very difficult to be organized beyond getting
to the shelter and to your vending spot on time.
And even if they are alcoholics or addicts, they still have a homeless problem
that makes it harder for them to quit. People have a hard enough time getting
clean at home or in rehab; I can't imagine trying to do it while living under a
bridge.
Naomi D.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Deminimii" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 02:04:47 PM |
|
|
Subject: Re: Homeless problem
From: (Naomi Darvell)
Date: 1/4/2004 10:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20040104133757.07958.00001943@mb-m16.aol.com>
x-no-archive: yes
Deminimii wrote inter alia:
In SF, approx. 70% of the homeless are addicts. It is estimated that 30-50%
of
the homeless also suffer from mental illness.
Even if you assume the addicts would not be homeless any more if they got
clean,
I wrote they wd be provided with housing in lieu of cash for housing that is
then spent for drugs.
there's 30% that are homeless for other reasons, and that's a lot of
people.
I don't have the stats but many of the mentally ill are also drug abusers. But
are they acting crazy because of drug abuse? Or are they crazy and using drugs?
You really can't correctly dx/tx a mental illness until the person is detoxed.
The mentally ill would also benefit by being provided housing and mental health
services, and if necessary, drug treatment, in lieu of cash.
Homelessness is a vicious cycle, because being homeless such hard work in
itself that it doesn't leave you much time to work on getting employment or
otherwise getting a foothold out.
And there's a terrible stigma attached to
it.
Then provide them with housing and treatment in lieu of cash. Also, they seem
to have the energy to sign up for and collect general relief each month in very
large numbers. Furthermore, why give them the means, i.e., cash, to make their
problems worse?
[snip]
The guy behind the
counter was visibly irritated and served him quickly to be rid of him. What
the
*****? He was presentable and clearly sober.
Did you consider he may have caused a disturbance there before and had been
ordered not to return? Frankly, I have found most merchants rather tolerant of
the homeless bc they just want to avoid confrontation.
He was also not pushing his
papers
aggressively or anything that would make people avoid the Starbucks.
I caught myself thinking that he shouldn't be spending what little he had on
cookies and buns at Starbucks, but that's the thing about homelessness. He
was
selling papers in the financial district on a Sunday morning. There were no
cheap eats to be had anywhere around. Maybe he should have brought some food
with him, but then you'd have to carry it or put it somewhere. And if you're
living in a shelter or sleeping under a bridge, you're chronically
sleep-deprived and it's probably very difficult to be organized beyond
getting
to the shelter and to your vending spot on time.
Once again, provide them with housing and treatment in lieu of a cash payment
for housing that goes for drugs or unspent.
And even if they are alcoholics or addicts, they still have a homeless
problem
that makes it harder for them to quit. People have a hard enough time getting
clean at home or in rehab; I can't imagine trying to do it while living under
a
bridge.
You seemed to have entirely missed the point.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Naomi Darvell" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 02:14:10 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
Deminimii wrote:
You seemed to have entirely missed the point.
Oh, I got your points. I agree that giving out food and housing is better than
giving out cash.
Naomi D.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Flashfire" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 04:22:56 AM |
|
|
Nom dePlume wrote:
The sad truth is that great majority of homeless people are mentally
ill, junkies, or both, and a breeding ground for crime.
There is also the high percentage of homeless youth, who cannot live at home
due to abusive parents, sexual abuse, neglect and a whole lot of other
issues. They should not be forgotten.
The best way to help the homeless people, and the rest of us, is to
put them into a locked medical treatment facility. This would solve a
lot of problems, but it is unattractive to the more liberal end of the
political spectrum, so I don't think it will happen. And I think
that's a shame, because a lot of people who need help, won't get it.
And its not cost effective, I dont know about your country but here in
Australia, a lot of the medical facilities that used to look after the
menally ill are no longer available due to deinstitutionalisation. And drug
rehabs have such long waiting lists and are so inefficiently run that there
is little or no help there either.
If any newsgroup should understand how the demons of mental illness
can twist minds, it would be this one.
Understood.
--
Regards Lee
~~
No one is compelled to serve great causes,
unless he feels fit for it.
Sir Winston Churchill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Naomi Darvell" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
04 Jan 2004 12:17:32 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
Kevin's site is interesting:
http://www.thehomelessguy.blogspot.com/
People get frustrated with him, because they think he's not doing enough to
stop being homeless. It seems as if that's quite like criticizing a depressed
person to stop being depressed. He does a good job of characterizing
homelessness as a kind of disorder.
Naomi D.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?10=A2_punk?=" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
03 Jan 2004 02:24:11 PM |
|
|
alvintchase wrote:
In the city where I live there are so many(literally) homeless
people...It's so sad...often I give them change.somemtimes I have to
be a little tougher,for my own safety,now that I live in the
city.However,I try to at least be polite,give them a kind word...
i used to care, but i take a pill for that now..
.
|
|
|
| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
|
| Title: Re: Homeless problem |
03 Jan 2004 02:34:31 PM |
|
|
"10¢ punk" <no@no.net> wrote in message news:3FF72558.90502@no.net...
alvintchase wrote:
In the city where I live there are so many(literally) homeless
people...It's so sad...often I give them change.somemtimes I have to
be a little tougher,for my own safety,now that I live in the
city.However,I try to at least be polite,give them a kind word...
i used to care, but i take a pill for that now..
you use to care , now you are one
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
