If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous..



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Topic: Sociology > Depression
User: "William Blake Jr."
Date: 31 Jul 2006 05:49:12 PM
Object: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous..
.... try corruption.
.

User: "%"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 31 Jul 2006 05:51:20 PM
"William Blake Jr." <ibshambat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154386152.715409.13860@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

... try corruption.

why would i think


.

User: "Bret Cahill"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 31 Jul 2006 08:08:57 PM

... try corruption.

Isn't corruption the grey area?
Bret Cahill
.

User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 31 Jul 2006 08:58:43 PM
William Blake Jr. wrote:

... try corruption.

Ah, but corruption IS when everything is in black and white.
When the sun is free to shine and reveal the truth, there is and
endless variety of color. :)

The eagle soars into turquoise and indigo
catching gold on white tipped feathers
in cadence of wind and stillnesses
singing and swooping with currents and storms
alone, the far-seer, sky dancer.
sun fire dips down to serpentine underworld
and eagle descends on rose and mauve and amber light
to an eyrie for night's long dream
head curved under wings
eagle encircled in sleep
reflecting early kinship
with those scaled and coiled beings
who swallow the sun in their tangled trap
while the lost world waits in darkness and dream;
and in dreamworlds gods and goddesses
beat the pulse of prayer
dancing near smaller fires
drumming toward greater light
creating song from cries of loss
fanning the glowing ember of the heart
praising color:
green of growth, gold of maize
soft rich browns of deer and earth
rainbow prisms of mist and sun
and riotous spring anemonies
tangerine and sienna of autumn's burnt lemon death
after summer's blue heat
and the white quiet in the center
of winter's stillness
and as hope begins to flicker
in the endless dark tunnel of night
eagle dreams stir
and in sleep awaken shadow-winged predator spirits
who dive for us all
into alien elements
fathomless seas of cobalt and black
dive through the surface
along watery crescents of moon's mirrored image
downward liquid spiral journey
and now is the need for eagle's sharp vision:
glimpse of turbulence below
dark shapes massing and twisting
in volcanic force the sun is caught
by serpents jealous and frenzied in battle
surrounding the light;
beak and talons curve
wings pull against the tidal vortex
moving with but not surrendering
to that power
and they strike
for an endless moment hearts stop in their sleep
drums do not beat
as feathers, coils, silver fangs and claws
embrace in the death of our dreams;
and in that moment the sun is freed
and begins to float luminous
toward that thin membrane where sea and sky meet
leaving an image of frozen fury far below
and finally, bursting through
with the fragile sound of silence and color
dawn is borne up on wings of light
life stirs
light stirs us all
and an eagle soars toward the sun
on the sighs of our awakening
Poem by Josie Tamarin
Published in "The Way Of The Shaman" by Michael Harner

.
User: "William Blake Jr."

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 03 Aug 2006 11:17:59 PM
wrote:

William Blake Jr. wrote:

... try corruption.


Ah, but corruption IS when everything is in black and white.

When the sun is free to shine and reveal the truth, there is and
endless variety of color. :)

That's true!
So then, the logical mindset is not the dualistic one but one of
biofeedback, chaos theory, inspiration and ionized multiplicity!
.
User: "K-ET"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 04 Aug 2006 12:00:17 PM
"William Blake Jr." <ibshambat@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154665079.642902.49800@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


randgrithr@gmail.com wrote:

William Blake Jr. wrote:

... try corruption.


Ah, but corruption IS when everything is in black and white.

When the sun is free to shine and reveal the truth, there is and
endless variety of color. :)


That's true!
So then, the logical mindset is not the dualistic one but one of
biofeedback, chaos theory, inspiration and ionized multiplicity!

Actually, IMHO, I think that the logical mindset is, first hand, always egotistic
in the sense of survival and prosperity. Dualism is merely just another mean to
obtain the necessary means for survival and prosperity, that we do not already
have in our possession.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 09:48:39 AM
K-ET wrote:

"William Blake Jr." <ibshambat@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154665079.642902.49800@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


randgrithr@gmail.com wrote:

William Blake Jr. wrote:

... try corruption.


Ah, but corruption IS when everything is in black and white.

When the sun is free to shine and reveal the truth, there is and
endless variety of color. :)


That's true!
So then, the logical mindset is not the dualistic one but one of
biofeedback, chaos theory, inspiration and ionized multiplicity!


Actually, IMHO, I think that the logical mindset is, first hand, always egotistic
in the sense of survival and prosperity.

What I meant was, not the logical mindset that is, but logical mindset
that should be.

Dualism is merely just another mean to
obtain the necessary means for survival and prosperity, that we do not already
have in our possession.

Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.
.
User: "K-ET"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 04:51:56 PM
<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154875719.546803.123360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


K-ET wrote:

"William Blake Jr." <ibshambat@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154665079.642902.49800@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


randgrithr@gmail.com wrote:

William Blake Jr. wrote:

... try corruption.


Ah, but corruption IS when everything is in black and white.

When the sun is free to shine and reveal the truth, there is and
endless variety of color. :)


That's true!
So then, the logical mindset is not the dualistic one but one of
biofeedback, chaos theory, inspiration and ionized multiplicity!


Actually, IMHO, I think that the logical mindset is, first hand, always
egotistic
in the sense of survival and prosperity.


What I meant was, not the logical mindset that is, but logical mindset
that should be.

I see. But, wouldn't succesfully changing mindset also involve changing natures
own order? If so, is it really possible?

Dualism is merely just another mean to
obtain the necessary means for survival and prosperity, that we do not already
have in our possession.


Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.

I am saying that, of the two, prosperity and survival, the survival instinct comes
first and to be succesfull, the others, including those you mention above, are
needed. I am not thinking that following ones own instinct is a bad thing in
itself. The instinct of survival is something inherited from our early ancient
ancestors down the chain of line up until now.
Is it something that is needed in todays enligthened and wellprotected society? I
say it is, because no matter how enlightened mankind becomes, there will always be
those that put themselves before others in order to first hand persue their own
need for survivial and prosperity.
K-ET
.
User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 07:25:34 PM
K-ET wrote:

What I meant was, not the logical mindset that is, but logical mindset
that should be.


I see. But, wouldn't succesfully changing mindset also involve changing natures
own order? If so, is it really possible?

I believe that nature's order is more intricate and inclusive than what
the shallow interpretation of evolution would have people believe. For
example, there are many ways to contribute to good of the species; many
abilities and mindsets that are of benefit. It's not only about
survival and prosperity. A scientist who seeks to know the world, or
the poet who seeks to produce beautiful works, are just as valuable as
is the businessman.

Dualism is merely just another mean to
obtain the necessary means for survival and prosperity, that we do not already
have in our possession.


Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.


I am saying that, of the two, prosperity and survival, the survival instinct comes
first and to be succesfull, the others, including those you mention above, are
needed. I am not thinking that following ones own instinct is a bad thing in
itself. The instinct of survival is something inherited from our early ancient
ancestors down the chain of line up until now.

Is it something that is needed in todays enligthened and wellprotected society? I
say it is, because no matter how enlightened mankind becomes, there will always be
those that put themselves before others in order to first hand persue their own
need for survivial and prosperity.

I am saying that there are many rational interests, self-directed or
other-directed, and many of them are what the doh boys of logic would
not consider rational at all.
.
User: "K-ET"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 08:18:27 PM
<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154910334.268768.285360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...


K-ET wrote:


I see. But, wouldn't succesfully changing mindset also involve changing natures
own order? If so, is it really possible?


I believe that nature's order is more intricate and inclusive than what
the shallow interpretation of evolution would have people believe. For
example, there are many ways to contribute to good of the species; many
abilities and mindsets that are of benefit. It's not only about
survival and prosperity. A scientist who seeks to know the world, or
the poet who seeks to produce beautiful works, are just as valuable as
is the businessman.

Never really said otherwise. My point is that if theres no gain, however small or
inferior, there's among most normal people no interest in joining the play.
But, by all means, I only made an observation after reading your post. I am not in
the position to speak for all mankind. However, I speak for myself and my own
opinion, based on experiences and observations in life. Are they faulty? Maybe,
but they have kept me alive for the past 50+ yrs and I reccon they, unfortunately,
will keep me alive a couple more years.

I am saying that, of the two, prosperity and survival, the survival instinct
comes
first and to be succesfull, the others, including those you mention above, are
needed. I am not thinking that following ones own instinct is a bad thing in
itself. The instinct of survival is something inherited from our early ancient
ancestors down the chain of line up until now.

Is it something that is needed in todays enligthened and wellprotected society?
I
say it is, because no matter how enlightened mankind becomes, there will always
be
those that put themselves before others in order to first hand persue their own
need for survivial and prosperity.


I am saying that there are many rational interests, self-directed or
other-directed, and many of them are what the doh boys of logic would
not consider rational at all.

Ok! since I have no idea what the expression "doh boys of logics" means, I can
only say if you say so :-) and leave it at that
K-ET
.
User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 07 Aug 2006 08:37:59 AM
K-ET wrote:

<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154910334.268768.285360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...


K-ET wrote:


I see. But, wouldn't succesfully changing mindset also involve changing natures
own order? If so, is it really possible?


I believe that nature's order is more intricate and inclusive than what
the shallow interpretation of evolution would have people believe. For
example, there are many ways to contribute to good of the species; many
abilities and mindsets that are of benefit. It's not only about
survival and prosperity. A scientist who seeks to know the world, or
the poet who seeks to produce beautiful works, are just as valuable as
is the businessman.


Never really said otherwise. My point is that if theres no gain, however small or
inferior, there's among most normal people no interest in joining the play.
But, by all means, I only made an observation after reading your post. I am not in
the position to speak for all mankind. However, I speak for myself and my own
opinion, based on experiences and observations in life. Are they faulty? Maybe,
but they have kept me alive for the past 50+ yrs and I reccon they, unfortunately,
will keep me alive a couple more years.

Unfortunately?
I've been picking up on a lot of suicidal energy recently. Must be
something going around.

I am saying that there are many rational interests, self-directed or
other-directed, and many of them are what the doh boys of logic would
not consider rational at all.


Ok! since I have no idea what the expression "doh boys of logics" means, I can
only say if you say so :-) and leave it at that

"Doh boys" means stupid boys. I am saying that people who are into
logic and nothing else are stupid.
.
User: "K-ET"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 11 Aug 2006 02:54:24 PM
<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1154957879.466372.182680@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


K-ET wrote:

<ilya skrev...



I see. But, wouldn't succesfully changing mindset also involve changing
natures
own order? If so, is it really possible?


I believe that nature's order is more intricate and inclusive than what
the shallow interpretation of evolution would have people believe. For
example, there are many ways to contribute to good of the species; many
abilities and mindsets that are of benefit. It's not only about
survival and prosperity. A scientist who seeks to know the world, or
the poet who seeks to produce beautiful works, are just as valuable as
is the businessman.


Never really said otherwise. My point is that if theres no gain, however small
or
inferior, there's among most normal people no interest in joining the play.
But, by all means, I only made an observation after reading your post. I am not
in
the position to speak for all mankind. However, I speak for myself and my own
opinion, based on experiences and observations in life. Are they faulty? Maybe,
but they have kept me alive for the past 50+ yrs and I reccon they,
unfortunately,
will keep me alive a couple more years.


Unfortunately?
I've been picking up on a lot of suicidal energy recently. Must be
something going around.

Ohh, no suicidal thoughts from here. Merely thinking out loud some thoughts that I
picked up along the way. It is not always easy to be a mentpr and in the end, when
things have settled and the situation is back to order, become aware of the simple
fact that ones presence no longer is needed, not to mention not wanted, anymore

I am saying that there are many rational interests, self-directed or
other-directed, and many of them are what the doh boys of logic would
not consider rational at all.


Ok! since I have no idea what the expression "doh boys of logics" means, I can
only say if you say so :-) and leave it at that


"Doh boys" means stupid boys. I am saying that people who are into
logic and nothing else are stupid.

ohh .. thank you, much appreciated. Well, I would not put it as far as saying
they're stupid. Inconsiderate, perhaps, and also not aware of their own personal
needs.
.... K-ET
.





User: "fritz"

Title: Re: If you think that dead black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 11:02:02 AM
<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154875719.546803.123360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.

all we ever pursue is death. you can play
games and lie to yourself but in the end,
we all get exactly what we've been after.
.
User: "K-ET"

Title: Re: If you think that dead black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 05:10:08 PM
"fritz" <fritz313@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:_noBg.319$Sn3.263@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...


<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154875719.546803.123360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.


all we ever pursue is death. you can play
games and lie to yourself but in the end,
we all get exactly what we've been after.

You mean like playing a computergame?
For me life is a journey, from station A to station B to station C
etc....until we finaly reach the end of the line, the End-station.
Look upon it as a computergame. The games are often built on levels. We start at
level 1 and strive to get to the last level, facing the game-end-level boss and
recieve the famous legend "GAME OVER". But each level in itself has endstations,
where we meet the endlevel-bosses. On our way to the boss, we are supposed to
perform different tasks, and use whatever tools we find on our way. We collect
them as we find them, at the time without really knowing why we need them, but
they might come in handy later in the game. This pattern repeats itself on every
level, there's merely only other tools and tasks to be found and performed.
Intelligently built games also contains the need to carry something, i.e. found at
level 1, all the way through the game to another game-level before it is useful.
It can be something as insignificant and meaningsless as a little stone, but this
small pebble can mean be able to keep a door open long enough to pass through it
and be able to continue.
If we fail in the computergame, all we have to do is start all over again. See the
picture?
For me life is very much the same. I start at level (read lifecycle) 1, I am born.
As I grow older, I learn and collect knowledge, my tools. Some knowledge might
seem totaly meaningless at the time I learn it, but if I collect it and carries
the knowledge along on my journey, it might be useful
at a time when I least expect it. This goes on until I meet real-lifes end-level
boss, Death.
To me, death is not the same as seezing to excist, it is a transcision to another
state of being. The physical body is destroyed and returned to earth, but the
soul, our spirit, continues the journey. Our collected knowledge is not lost, it
is contained within the spirit, and carried along.
When I reicarnate, I have a new task to accomplish, and new tools, knowledge, to
collect. To be able to accomplish the task, I have to use what I learned earlier,
and also imply the new knowledge into myself, make it my own.
This pattern is repeated for as long as I need to learn the lesson. If I "fail" in
this life-cycle, I get another chance to learn the lesson. Time is of no
importance, the knowledge is. This way the "failure" itself is merely a lesson in
understanding and to gain more knowledge.
Someone once wrote "circles within circles", maybe the quote is appropriate for
what I am trying to say above.
K-ET
.

User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that dead black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 07:31:51 PM
fritz wrote:

<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154875719.546803.123360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.


all we ever pursue is death.

Who's the "we"?

you can play
games and lie to yourself but in the end,
we all get exactly what we've been after.

Well, you go believe that, and I believe something else.
.
User: "fritz"

Title: Re: If you think that dead black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 08:17:09 PM
<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154910711.418900.89620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


fritz wrote:

<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154875719.546803.123360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Are you saying that the logical thing to do is pursue prosperity and
survival? I am of the belief that pursuing knowledge, or love, or
wisdom, or excellence, are just as rightful if not more so.


all we ever pursue is death.


Who's the "we"?

anybody alive, or seemingly
so at least

you can play
games and lie to yourself but in the end,
we all get exactly what we've been after.


Well, you go believe that, and I believe something else.

of course you can defend to the death
your new agey live forever alice in
wonderland stuff if that's what you
need
nobody's stopping you.
.



User: "%"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 09:55:19 AM
tickle me on my thing
.
User: "fritz"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is microscopically dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 10:58:53 AM
"%" <persent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:KaGdnYCKWohon0vZnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@giganews.com...

tickle me on my thing

wait till i go grab an
electron microscope
.

User: ""

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 06 Aug 2006 07:30:40 PM
dude, what got into you?
% wrote:

tickle me on my thing

.




User: "%"

Title: Re: If you think that black-and-white thinking is dangerous.. 03 Aug 2006 11:20:37 PM
shut up , nipple lick
.




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