| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"diana lyster" |
| Date: |
02 Dec 2003 06:59:32 PM |
| Object: |
[living different] |
i hope it's okay to ramble about some things. i think they have
something to do with my depression anyway. i don't know. having a
splintered family can be depressing. having a splintered, fractured
psyche can be even more depressing. i don't get to read this group as
much as i would like to because i have limited internet access and i
hope that's okay. i'm actually writing this offline and then i'm
gonna post it in a bit.
so like out of the blue i hear from my dad... must be the holidays.
he's left his second wife and kids. said they were 'tying him down'
and stuff like that. i wonder if he realizes that that is going to
make me wonder if he was the same way when he left our family. of
course he and stephanie had other problems, too. she drank and took
pills and made a lot of scenes, as i recall. it's been a long time
since they split though. so anyway, he says he is in therapy and that
other people are telling him he is 'dishonest' and he asks me what i
think so of course i tell him what i always thought since he asked,
that i didn't think he was honest because he lied a lot. i knew he was
cheating on his second wife and i never said anything because i didn't
want to make a federal case out of it. i don't know if i even spent
much time thinking about it myself but it was like oh these same signs
and whatnot and then after they split i found out through the
grapevine that his second wife had learned about his cheating, etc.
and just all that big mess. and it occurred to me the little things
when we were growing up, like he didn't think it was a big deal if i
cheated in school. there's just a lot of other stuff.
now i'm in college and i don't cheat because well, for one thing it
would be stupid. and for another thing i want to learn something and
also it's just plain wrong. and there's other things like that like
how i grew up that i realize now are just plain wrong. like slamming
doors and screaming and throwing tantrums and stuff is wrong. and i
didn't know better but now i do. and see, he throws at me like what a
violent and immoral child i was and it's true like when i was drinking
i did pitch fits and i did other mean things, but it was like he
encouraged it growing up. also it's like well i did mean things then
but i don't now and i do my best not to now. he is still so mad at me
for 'going off' in the past and he acts like that should excuse
anything he does because i have 'my rages' as he puts them. now
frankly i think that's a bit unfair. it's like he's still in this
immoral quagmire and he wants to pull me into it with him. and, i can
say that i am really a more honest person today i'm doing better
today. and i care today. when i do something wrong i apologize which
is more than i can say for him.
i guess he's just lonely cause he threw away all of his family and i
never would have heard from him if i hadn't e-mailed him. i don't
think i could deal with him without like having another person like a
therapist present because he will like twist and turn the truth and
say he didn't say what he just said. hey, i guess that's another
example of lying.
and i know you are only getting my side of it and why believe me,
right? *sigh*
now i'm getting defensive the way i used to with him because he never
believed a word i said. like i can tell you if i told him that i knew
he was cheating when he was married he would tell me, 'no you're just
making it up.' see and this is why i get fed up and sick, sick, sick
of people who don't tell the truth and i don't want to be like that. i
don't want to be a liar. and hey, if that means my stories are a
little more boring, so be it. that may mean i'll do something stupid
like use up all the coffee at work and i'll have to tell you the truth
like hey i did use up all the coffee and i didn't get more and it's my
fault so ***** at me...
like that kind of thing. but that is how i choose to live today.
cause before when i was a child, i just couldn't see all the
consequences down the road of living a crooked life.
i don't know if ya'll can relate but i hope so.
diana
.
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
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| Title: Re: [living different] |
03 Dec 2003 08:14:12 AM |
|
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"diana lyster" <satispassion@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:d144cd13.0312021659.575a281b@posting.google.com...
i hope it's okay to ramble about some things. i think they have
something to do with my depression anyway. i don't know. having a
splintered family can be depressing. having a splintered, fractured
psyche can be even more depressing.
<giant snip>
Diana;
I'm glad you got to post your thoughts, and that I happened to read them.
Your words remind me of some of my childhood stuff.
The encouraging thing about your message is that you see the difference now
from what you survived/endured while you were growing up. You recognize
things you grew up believing to be typical, that you have since found to be
less than desirable in a caring world which you obviously prefer today.
I am estranged from most of my family because of all the craziness of our
earlier years, the splitting up, fighting, blaming and stuff like that.
Sometimes I can't believe I am a product of that environment at all. I hate
it. I hate looking back. I hate realizing how selfish my parents were at the
time, and how ignorant they can act sometimes even now, like I'm going to
finally tell them what they want to hear, that they didn't hurt us and
continue to hurt us (my sisters & I) with their crazy *****.
But while I am learning to live healthier today, the more I learn about how
good life and real love can be, the more I grieve about the huge gap between
what we all may perceive as our personal (selfish) goals/desires, vs. the
true worth and reward that is gotten from living responsibly with others in
a sharing, reciprocal, supportive relationship. It is so sad to see now what
we were doing then, thinking it was the only way to live and just causing so
much pain for everyone. We did have other choices, but we weren't able to
see those better choices at the time. We did what we did in that darkness of
ignorance and misunderstanding. So now we live with the consequences
regardless, even though we can learn from it.
I do better now by limiting my contact with my old family (parents and sibs)
to only what I can stand, in situations where I can control the duration of
time we are in the same room. I still love them, I just can't stand to be
around them in an unlimited way. It hurts too much. I have also found that I
can control what I choose to think about those old emotions. Instead of
considering it some kind of imposition on me that I should not ever
accept/forgive, I try to think about it as an undesirable and unhappy past
which I have somehow survived. Now I can go on without holding on to it
forever, continuing to punish myself over things of which I had little
control. Anyone deserves better than that eternal waste. You might say I am
learning to treat myself better, wiht the respect everyone deserves, but
many are tricked into believing they have been forever denied. My biological
predisposition to depression is hard enough to understand and live with,
muchless the added psychological burden of continued interest on losses I
paid for years ago.
Anyway, thanks for your message to the group. I hope you will continue
learning and finding ways to accept and respect yourself. I am envious of
your ability to continue your formal education.
Regards, -Dan
"If pain is the price, we have saved up a treasure. So start paying yourself
back, time is short and you can afford to be good to yourself today."
(drhall-today)
.
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| User: "Patricia Walters" |
|
| Title: Re: [living different] |
03 Dec 2003 11:05:32 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:14:12 -0500, "Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote:
I have also found that I
can control what I choose to think about those old emotions. Instead of
considering it some kind of imposition on me that I should not ever
accept/forgive, I try to think about it as an undesirable and unhappy past
which I have somehow survived. Now I can go on without holding on to it
forever, continuing to punish myself over things of which I had little
control
I really like this part. Although I had never put it into words, this
is how I think, too.
--
Patricia
"Eat less and move more."
X-No-Archive: yes is in the headers
.
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| User: "diana lyster" |
|
| Title: Re: [living different] |
05 Dec 2003 08:20:00 AM |
|
|
thanks, dan for your kindness and for your response! :) i know that i
need to limit my contact with my family, too. i told my dad that with
him white was black and black was white and of course he acted like i
was making up fibs or sonething. it is sooooooooooooooooo
infuriating! it makes me feel like alice falling down the rabbit hole
and the backward tea party. real acid dropping stuff.
your post reminds me that i don't need to be trapped into accepting
the backwardsness as the norm. i don't need to feel like it is my
destiny to experience only painful relationships. i can find healthy
relationships and enjoy them, and, i look forward to that.
thank you again for reminding me that i'm not alone! :)
diana
"Dan Hall" <drhall@dmci.net> wrote in message news:<vsrrtos82ufnb2@corp.supernews.com>...
"diana lyster" <satispassion@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:d144cd13.0312021659.575a281b@posting.google.com...
i hope it's okay to ramble about some things. i think they have
something to do with my depression anyway. i don't know. having a
splintered family can be depressing. having a splintered, fractured
psyche can be even more depressing.
<giant snip>
Diana;
I'm glad you got to post your thoughts, and that I happened to read them.
Your words remind me of some of my childhood stuff.
The encouraging thing about your message is that you see the difference now
from what you survived/endured while you were growing up. You recognize
things you grew up believing to be typical, that you have since found to be
less than desirable in a caring world which you obviously prefer today.
I am estranged from most of my family because of all the craziness of our
earlier years, the splitting up, fighting, blaming and stuff like that.
Sometimes I can't believe I am a product of that environment at all. I hate
it. I hate looking back. I hate realizing how selfish my parents were at the
time, and how ignorant they can act sometimes even now, like I'm going to
finally tell them what they want to hear, that they didn't hurt us and
continue to hurt us (my sisters & I) with their crazy *****.
But while I am learning to live healthier today, the more I learn about how
good life and real love can be, the more I grieve about the huge gap between
what we all may perceive as our personal (selfish) goals/desires, vs. the
true worth and reward that is gotten from living responsibly with others in
a sharing, reciprocal, supportive relationship. It is so sad to see now what
we were doing then, thinking it was the only way to live and just causing so
much pain for everyone. We did have other choices, but we weren't able to
see those better choices at the time. We did what we did in that darkness of
ignorance and misunderstanding. So now we live with the consequences
regardless, even though we can learn from it.
I do better now by limiting my contact with my old family (parents and sibs)
to only what I can stand, in situations where I can control the duration of
time we are in the same room. I still love them, I just can't stand to be
around them in an unlimited way. It hurts too much. I have also found that I
can control what I choose to think about those old emotions. Instead of
considering it some kind of imposition on me that I should not ever
accept/forgive, I try to think about it as an undesirable and unhappy past
which I have somehow survived. Now I can go on without holding on to it
forever, continuing to punish myself over things of which I had little
control. Anyone deserves better than that eternal waste. You might say I am
learning to treat myself better, wiht the respect everyone deserves, but
many are tricked into believing they have been forever denied. My biological
predisposition to depression is hard enough to understand and live with,
muchless the added psychological burden of continued interest on losses I
paid for years ago.
Anyway, thanks for your message to the group. I hope you will continue
learning and finding ways to accept and respect yourself. I am envious of
your ability to continue your formal education.
Regards, -Dan
"If pain is the price, we have saved up a treasure. So start paying yourself
back, time is short and you can afford to be good to yourself today."
(drhall-today)
.
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| User: "Dan Hall" |
|
| Title: Re: [living different] |
05 Dec 2003 08:57:07 AM |
|
|
"diana lyster" <satispassion@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:d144cd13.0312050620.6271c332@posting.google.com...
thank you again for reminding me that i'm not alone! :)
diana
Likewise.
-Dan
.
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| User: "Whiskers" |
|
| Title: Re: [living different] |
03 Dec 2003 03:57:09 PM |
|
|
In alt.support.depression on Wednesday 03 Dec 2003 12:59 am, diana lyster
<satispassion@my-deja.com> wrote:
snip
that may mean i'll do something stupid
like use up all the coffee at work and i'll have to tell you the truth
like hey i did use up all the coffee and i didn't get more and it's my
fault so ***** at me...
snip
People will like you better for being honest about the coffee than for lying
about it.
It sounds as though you have done a lot of growing up, and your father still
has a lot to do.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
.
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| User: "Patricia Walters" |
|
| Title: Re: [living different] |
03 Dec 2003 07:27:45 AM |
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On 2 Dec 2003 16:59:32 -0800, (diana lyster)
wrote:
like that kind of thing. but that is how i choose to live today.
cause before when i was a child, i just couldn't see all the
consequences down the road of living a crooked life.
i don't know if ya'll can relate but i hope so.
diana
Absolutely I can relate. It is SUCH a cliche to say that if you
cheat, you are cheating yourself but it is, nevertheless, true.
I am struggling with this on a small scale at this time. I have lost
weight {31 pounds} by walking every day, and by being strictly and
ruthlessly honest about what I am eating as I write down the calories.
Lately, a couple of times I have caught myself eating a tablespoon of
this and that as I am cooking and not writing it down. "Oh, it's just
a taste," I find myself thinking. But I know it isn't, and I know that
what I have been doing is cheating. And I know that the person I am
cheating is myself.
And I know the scales have stopped moving downward...
Back in the days when I was teaching, I felt that one of the things I
was teaching along with reading and writing techniques and a bit of
grammar was that EVERYTHING has a consequence.
Apparently, in the area of eating, I am still learning this.
Yes, indeed, Diana, I know what you mean.
--
Patricia
"Eat less and move more."
X-No-Archive: yes is in the headers
.
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| User: "Jernau Gurgeh" |
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| Title: Re: [living different] |
02 Dec 2003 07:30:00 PM |
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diana lyster wrote on 03 Dec 2003 in alt.support.depression
i hope it's okay to ramble about some things. i think they have
something to do with my depression anyway. i don't know. having a
splintered family can be depressing. having a splintered, fractured
psyche can be even more depressing. i don't get to read this group as
much as i would like to because i have limited internet access and i
hope that's okay. i'm actually writing this offline and then i'm
gonna post it in a bit.
Of course it's okay!
so like out of the blue i hear from my dad... must be the holidays.
he's left his second wife and kids. said they were 'tying him down'
and stuff like that. i wonder if he realizes that that is going to
make me wonder if he was the same way when he left our family. of
course he and stephanie had other problems, too. she drank and took
pills and made a lot of scenes, as i recall. it's been a long time
since they split though. so anyway, he says he is in therapy and that
other people are telling him he is 'dishonest' and he asks me what i
think so of course i tell him what i always thought since he asked,
that i didn't think he was honest because he lied a lot. i knew he was
cheating on his second wife and i never said anything because i didn't
want to make a federal case out of it. i don't know if i even spent
much time thinking about it myself but it was like oh these same signs
and whatnot and then after they split i found out through the
grapevine that his second wife had learned about his cheating, etc.
and just all that big mess. and it occurred to me the little things
when we were growing up, like he didn't think it was a big deal if i
cheated in school. there's just a lot of other stuff.
now i'm in college and i don't cheat because well, for one thing it
would be stupid. and for another thing i want to learn something and
also it's just plain wrong. and there's other things like that like
how i grew up that i realize now are just plain wrong. like slamming
doors and screaming and throwing tantrums and stuff is wrong. and i
didn't know better but now i do. and see, he throws at me like what a
violent and immoral child i was and it's true like when i was drinking
i did pitch fits and i did other mean things, but it was like he
encouraged it growing up. also it's like well i did mean things then
but i don't now and i do my best not to now. he is still so mad at me
for 'going off' in the past and he acts like that should excuse
anything he does because i have 'my rages' as he puts them. now
frankly i think that's a bit unfair. it's like he's still in this
immoral quagmire and he wants to pull me into it with him. and, i can
say that i am really a more honest person today i'm doing better
today. and i care today. when i do something wrong i apologize which
is more than i can say for him.
i guess he's just lonely cause he threw away all of his family and i
never would have heard from him if i hadn't e-mailed him. i don't
think i could deal with him without like having another person like a
therapist present because he will like twist and turn the truth and
say he didn't say what he just said. hey, i guess that's another
example of lying.
and i know you are only getting my side of it and why believe me,
right? *sigh*
now i'm getting defensive the way i used to with him because he never
believed a word i said. like i can tell you if i told him that i knew
he was cheating when he was married he would tell me, 'no you're just
making it up.' see and this is why i get fed up and sick, sick, sick
of people who don't tell the truth and i don't want to be like that. i
don't want to be a liar. and hey, if that means my stories are a
little more boring, so be it. that may mean i'll do something stupid
like use up all the coffee at work and i'll have to tell you the truth
like hey i did use up all the coffee and i didn't get more and it's my
fault so ***** at me...
like that kind of thing. but that is how i choose to live today.
cause before when i was a child, i just couldn't see all the
consequences down the road of living a crooked life.
i don't know if ya'll can relate but i hope so.
I do. I have little to say at the moment, sorry 'bout that, but I can
relate.
Jernau
--
By Endurance We Conquer
-E. Shackleton
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| User: "John" |
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| Title: Re: [living different] |
03 Dec 2003 11:29:45 AM |
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|
x-no-archive: yes
"diana lyster" <satispassion@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:d144cd13.0312021659.575a281b@posting.google.com...
i don't know if ya'll can relate but i hope so.
diana
Yep. I can.
Among other things, your post reminds me of how complicated and difficult it
is to love a parent who is as messed up as your dad.
.
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