| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"lisa in mass." |
| Date: |
18 Jun 2005 10:10:56 PM |
| Object: |
med changes |
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a miracle
drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i instantly felt
better. poopout, better. poopout, better. now this latest time
it wasn't better.
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i don't
think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i haven't
tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study a
programming book, but can't remember well enough to be able to
do it yet.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more time
to think about whether to increase the parnate now. i'll
probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did enough
that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag myself out of
bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a life, though at
least i have one.
scary stuff.
-lisa
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| User: "noahvail" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 01:07:41 PM |
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"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a miracle
drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i instantly felt
better. poopout, better. poopout, better. now this latest time
it wasn't better.
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i don't
think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i haven't
tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study a
programming book, but can't remember well enough to be able to
do it yet.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more time
to think about whether to increase the parnate now. i'll
probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did enough
that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag myself out of
bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a life, though at
least i have one.
scary stuff.
-lisa
Good luck Lisa. I hope you find some relief.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
20 Jun 2005 12:33:54 AM |
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noahvail wrote...
Good luck Lisa. I hope you find some relief.
thank you.
-lisa
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| User: "Tim Kett" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
18 Jun 2005 11:09:08 PM |
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Almost every other time I go to the clinic, they want to know if I want to
increase a certain med, and I always tell them NO.
Sure, I am not even to the level that most people are, but it usually takes
the worst of the edge off, so good enough.
I hope you are also seeing a decent therapist on a regular basis, because
meds can only do so much.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:37:48 AM |
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Tim Kett wrote...
Almost every other time I go to the clinic, they want to
know if I want to increase a certain med, and I always tell
them NO.
Sure, I am not even to the level that most people are, but
it usually takes the worst of the edge off, so good enough.
I hope you are also seeing a decent therapist on a regular
basis, because meds can only do so much.
yes, i have a very good therapist. since i started seeing him
2 years ago, i've only had 1 hospitalization, and that one was
semi-planned for my med change (we'd assumed i'd need it). i
have had a couple ofstints at the local partial
hospitalization program, though, which is a day program.
unfortunately, my therp's convinced that my depression's
entirely biological, so our main course of action is simply to
work with dealing with it. it's not going to get better
through therapy.
i don't know how much of a choice i'll have for a med
increase. if this follows the usual pattern, the next thing
that will happen is that i'll get highly self-destructive.
dramatic increases in both self-injurious urges and suicidal
ideation. that's when i have to do something.
i have a very high metabolic rate when it comes to processing
meds. i always need to use the maximum dose or higher to have
an effect of any medication. my pdoc consulted with a big-name
specialist in difficult to treat depression at harvard. he
said that we could safely increase the parnate to 110 mg. i'm
afraid i might go that high without it having enough of an
effect.
the only other med i haven't tried that might help is nardil,
another mao inhibitor. if that's no better, i'm going to have
to drop my ad's altogether, which scares me. but if it's not
helping, there's no real point to taking tons of it. oh, well.
time will tell...
-lisa
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| User: "%" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:41:41 AM |
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Hi Lisa
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:44:38 AM |
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% wrote...
Hi Lisa
hi
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| User: "%" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:55:28 AM |
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"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967A119C7FBADmccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
% wrote...
Hi Lisa
hi
are you ready
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 01:03:25 AM |
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% wrote...
"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967A119C7FBADmccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
% wrote...
Hi Lisa
hi
are you ready
no.
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| User: "%" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 01:08:42 AM |
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"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967A14CB83E0Emccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
% wrote...
"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967A119C7FBADmccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
% wrote...
Hi Lisa
hi
are you ready
no.
well there is no one else so your it
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| User: "Alan Harding" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 05:27:05 PM |
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In message <Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>, lisa in mass.
<mccats@rcn.com> writes
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a miracle
drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i instantly felt
better. poopout, better. poopout, better. now this latest time
it wasn't better.
Ah. That may be the difference. My psych at the time had the attitude
that, if the side-effects were tolerable (I had none), he could keep
increasing the dosage. I went up to 80mg as fast as he dared get me
there. I've never experienced 'poop out' with anything, but I've usually
gone straight to over the 'maximum' dose.
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i don't
think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i haven't
tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study a
programming book, but can't remember well enough to be able to
do it yet.
I started reading a novel a month ago; I'm stuck a quarter of the way
into it. And I have no real trouble with non-fiction; reference and
such. I've dipped into a couple of programming texts; it looks a good
way to get my brain going again, but I'd have to get the language to
program in.
And that's without ECT.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more time
to think about whether to increase the parnate now. i'll
probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did enough
that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag myself out of
bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a life, though at
least i have one.
Safe is good. I'd hate it if you weren't here.
scary stuff.
I'd hate to think there wasn't anything else I could try, but there are
things to try besides antidepressants, and they can be mixed. People say
they've tried everything; no one ever has, there are just too many
combinations for anyone to live long enough to give each of them a real
trial.
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
20 Jun 2005 12:50:43 AM |
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Alan Harding wrote...
In message <Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>,
lisa in mass. <mccats@rcn.com> writes
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to
110 aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary
level of medication, considering that the fda suggests a
max dose of 60.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a
miracle drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i
instantly felt better. poopout, better. poopout, better.
now this latest time it wasn't better.
Ah. That may be the difference. My psych at the time had
the attitude that, if the side-effects were tolerable (I
had none), he could keep increasing the dosage. I went up
to 80mg as fast as he dared get me there. I've never
experienced 'poop out' with anything, but I've usually gone
straight to over the 'maximum' dose.
mine doesn't have a problem with increasing the dosage, but we
try the upper end of the usual dose first, then increase from
there as needed. i see him every two weeks, so i don't have to
wait too long to make changes. right now, he's away for a
couple of weeks, which gives me time to ruminate while he's
gone. maybe not a good thing...
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i
don't think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i
haven't tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study
a programming book, but can't remember well enough to be
able to do it yet.
I started reading a novel a month ago; I'm stuck a quarter
of the way into it. And I have no real trouble with
non-fiction; reference and such. I've dipped into a couple
of programming texts; it looks a good way to get my brain
going again, but I'd have to get the language to program
in.
And that's without ECT.
i was trying to get through 'c++ for dummies'. i guess i'm
even dumber than i thought, because i could never get through
more than the first few chapters before forgetting what i'd
learned in the beginning. fiction is better, if it's light
enough. right now, i'm sticking to some sci-fi and murder
mysteries. anything that can catch my attention enough to pull
me through. i did buy some short stories and novellas. they
went pretty well. forget most 'good' literature.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more
time to think about whether to increase the parnate now.
i'll probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did
enough that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag
myself out of bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a
life, though at least i have one.
Safe is good. I'd hate it if you weren't here.
thanks. i think i'm glad i'm still here, too.
scary stuff.
I'd hate to think there wasn't anything else I could try,
but there are things to try besides antidepressants, and
they can be mixed. People say they've tried everything; no
one ever has, there are just too many combinations for
anyone to live long enough to give each of them a real
trial.
i'm looking forward to transcranial magnetic stimulation. it
seems to have had good results in trials. should be approved
for general use soon.
i also haven't given all of the nutritional supplements enough
of a try. i used fish oil for a time, but turns out i wasn't
using enough. i should try again, though taking as much as is
needed isn't very appealing. i also have to talk to joe about
making a light box a priority in the budget again. not this
month, but sometime soon.
-lisa
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| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:08:48 AM |
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One of my psychiatrists, who has more experience with MAOIs than most,
mentioned that he had participated in a clinical study to investigate
whether very high MAOI doses (well above FDA limits) were helpful. In
fact, they were helpful in some people. The FDA limits are reasonable
ones for most people, but what really matters is your individual
response. If you do well on a higher than standard dose, then that's
good. At some point, a sufficiently high dose will make you feel sick
(which is how I've discovered my personal limits for some meds I've
tried).
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
=====
"lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a miracle
drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i instantly felt
better. poopout, better. poopout, better. now this latest time
it wasn't better.
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i don't
think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i haven't
tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study a
programming book, but can't remember well enough to be able to
do it yet.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more time
to think about whether to increase the parnate now. i'll
probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did enough
that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag myself out of
bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a life, though at
least i have one.
scary stuff.
-lisa
.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:48:22 AM |
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Nom dePlume wrote...
One of my psychiatrists, who has more experience with MAOIs
than most, mentioned that he had participated in a clinical
study to investigate whether very high MAOI doses (well
above FDA limits) were helpful. In fact, they were helpful
in some people. The FDA limits are reasonable ones for most
people, but what really matters is your individual
response. If you do well on a higher than standard dose,
then that's good. At some point, a sufficiently high dose
will make you feel sick (which is how I've discovered my
personal limits for some meds I've tried).
i always need high doses of meds, as a rapid metaboliser. i know
that the harvard specialist said we could go up to 110 mg. just
a bit scary...
i am watching my bp. if it starts running too low or the
postural hypotension gets too bad, we'll have to stop the
increase, at least for awhile. other than that, i've had no side
effects from parnate at all, so far.
-lisa
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| User: "Youll Never Know" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
22 Jun 2005 07:18:12 PM |
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On 19 Jun 2005 05:48:22 GMT, "lisa in mass." <mccats@rcn.com> wrote:
Nom dePlume wrote...
One of my psychiatrists, who has more experience with MAOIs
than most, mentioned that he had participated in a clinical
study to investigate whether very high MAOI doses (well
above FDA limits) were helpful. In fact, they were helpful
in some people. The FDA limits are reasonable ones for most
people, but what really matters is your individual
response. If you do well on a higher than standard dose,
then that's good. At some point, a sufficiently high dose
will make you feel sick (which is how I've discovered my
personal limits for some meds I've tried).
i always need high doses of meds, as a rapid metaboliser. i know
that the harvard specialist said we could go up to 110 mg. just
a bit scary...
i am watching my bp. if it starts running too low or the
postural hypotension gets too bad, we'll have to stop the
increase, at least for awhile. other than that, i've had no side
effects from parnate at all, so far.
Yes they often seem to be very effective and side-effect free so long
as you can discipline yourself.
Here's a thought, anything he can suggest which might reduce the rate
at which you metabolise them? That might be a place you can attack the
problem.
.
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| User: "Tim Kett" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
18 Jun 2005 11:01:32 PM |
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lisa in mass. <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in article
<Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
Lisa, I sure hope you are careful ! They really dont like to prescribe MAOs
at all at my clinic. If it were me, there is no way I would even consider
increasing it. My heart goes out to you. 60 is the max I found too.
maybe part of it is that i'm scared that nothing's going to
help anymore. when i started on the parnate, it was a miracle
drug. then it pooped out. we increased it and i instantly felt
better. poopout, better. poopout, better. now this latest time
it wasn't better.
i can try nardil after i give up on this, but i'm not
expecting any better results. after that, there's nothing
left. just wait another year or so and see if transcranial
magnetic stimulation's been approved for use in depression
yet. i'm sure my insurance won't want to cover it, but i don't
think they can hold back if it's the only treatment i haven't
tried, short of vagus nerve stimulation.
ect helped some, along with meds at the time, but stole my
memory and lots of my cognitive functioning. after years, i
can only now read a (fiction) book again. i tried to study a
programming book, but can't remember well enough to be able to
do it yet.
my pdoc's gone for another couple of weeks. i have more time
to think about whether to increase the parnate now. i'll
probably have to, though i hope not. at least it did enough
that i'm safe now, though i can't seem to drag myself out of
bed unless it's really urgent. not much of a life, though at
least i have one.
scary stuff.
-lisa
.
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| User: "Alan Harding" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 05:29:11 PM |
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In message <01c57484$6534ee80$46066582@default>, Tim Kett
<tim6kettring@e-garfield.com> writes
lisa in mass. <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in article
<Xns9679EBB135188mccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to 110
aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary level
of medication, considering that the fda suggests a max dose of
60.
Lisa, I sure hope you are careful ! They really dont like to prescribe MAOs
at all at my clinic. If it were me, there is no way I would even consider
increasing it. My heart goes out to you. 60 is the max I found too.
Here they say 'over 30mg, only under close supervision'. I see my psych
every two months or so, but I have been on this dosage for four or five
years.
--
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:43:02 AM |
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Tim Kett wrote...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to
110 aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary
level of medication, considering that the fda suggests a
max dose of 60.
Lisa, I sure hope you are careful ! They really dont like
to prescribe MAOs at all at my clinic. If it were me, there
is no way I would even consider increasing it. My heart
goes out to you. 60 is the max I found too.
my pdoc didn't want to prescribe an maoi, but it was the only
class of drugs that we hadn't tried. he was going to call for a
consult, when i suggested that we try parnate first, since i
figured they'd just ask whether we'd tried an maoi. it did work
well at first, but then i needed more and more of it. it's
getting scary. at least i know all the side-effects now, and
watch my blood pressure. if it goes too low (or, unlikely, high)
we'll have to stop the increase. i'm as careful as i can be...
-lisa
.
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| User: "Tim Kett" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 12:52:34 AM |
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lisa in mass. <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in article
<Xns967A1156A32Fmccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>...
Tim Kett wrote...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i know
that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher than i'm
currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid that if the
increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90 to 100, 100 to
110 aren't going to do any better, and it's really a scary
level of medication, considering that the fda suggests a
max dose of 60.
Lisa, I sure hope you are careful ! They really dont like
to prescribe MAOs at all at my clinic. If it were me, there
is no way I would even consider increasing it. My heart
goes out to you. 60 is the max I found too.
my pdoc didn't want to prescribe an maoi, but it was the only
class of drugs that we hadn't tried. he was going to call for a
consult, when i suggested that we try parnate first, since i
figured they'd just ask whether we'd tried an maoi. it did work
well at first, but then i needed more and more of it. it's
getting scary. at least i know all the side-effects now, and
watch my blood pressure. if it goes too low (or, unlikely, high)
we'll have to stop the increase. i'm as careful as i can be...
-lisa
check this NG alt.support.depression.medication
I am not suggesting it, but there are posts about Lithium augmentation for
unipolar depressives, if I am not mistaken. I wonder what your doctor would
think of that. Sounds like you have an excellent doctor.
.
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 01:03:00 AM |
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Tim Kett wrote...
lisa in mass. <mccats@rcn.com> wrote in article
<Xns967A1156A32Fmccatsjavanetcom@130.133.1.4>...
Tim Kett wrote...
i'm really scared of increasing this med even more. i
know that an 'expert' says that it's safe to go higher
than i'm currently at on my parnate (90 mg), i'm afraid
that if the increase from 80 to 90 didn't help, that 90
to 100, 100 to 110 aren't going to do any better, and
it's really a scary level of medication, considering
that the fda suggests a max dose of 60.
Lisa, I sure hope you are careful ! They really dont
like to prescribe MAOs at all at my clinic. If it were
me, there is no way I would even consider increasing it.
My heart goes out to you. 60 is the max I found too.
my pdoc didn't want to prescribe an maoi, but it was the
only class of drugs that we hadn't tried. he was going to
call for a consult, when i suggested that we try parnate
first, since i figured they'd just ask whether we'd tried
an maoi. it did work well at first, but then i needed more
and more of it. it's getting scary. at least i know all
the side-effects now, and watch my blood pressure. if it
goes too low (or, unlikely, high) we'll have to stop the
increase. i'm as careful as i can be...
-lisa
check this NG alt.support.depression.medication
I am not suggesting it, but there are posts about Lithium
augmentation for unipolar depressives, if I am not
mistaken. I wonder what your doctor would think of that.
Sounds like you have an excellent doctor.
i can't take lithium. terrible side-effects. am taking
lamictal now, both to aument the ad, and as a mood stabiliser.
i am unipolar, but had trouble handling the relative ups and
downs common to even unipolar depression.
my pdoc's head of the psych consultation service at a fairly
large teaching hospital. i think i'm in excellent hands.
-lisa
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| User: "Gayle" |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
19 Jun 2005 09:19:16 AM |
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lisa in mass. wrote:
scary stuff.
It does sound scary. Stay safe, Lisa.
Gayle
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| User: "lisa in mass." |
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| Title: Re: med changes |
20 Jun 2005 12:33:30 AM |
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Gayle wrote...
lisa in mass. wrote:
scary stuff.
It does sound scary. Stay safe, Lisa.
Gayle
thanks gayle.
-lisa
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