| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Now What" |
| Date: |
07 Dec 2003 06:38:28 PM |
| Object: |
My thoughts on AD's - need feedback |
Would like feedback on the below. Warning, this post is long and somewhat of a
"word-salad", though I am not psychotic :-/. I have a few questions
interspersed and if someone can comment on even a tiny part of this, I would be
grateful.
1). IMO, the reason SSRI's really work is not because of the traditional theory
of serotonin being like that of insulin to a diabetic, but because they
suppress brain function - you either don't know or remember what was bothering
you (otherwise, why would SSRA's (the chemical opposite of SSRI's) like
Tianeptine work so well?) There must be something about the overall
neurotoxicity of meds that causes the brain to phreak out in some way and
suppress cognitive function.
2). SSRI's make you feel 'good' not because of a significant change in attitude
but because of the bizarre bodily cravings they induce. Example, I was on
Celexa for a while and don't remember any noticeable improvement in mood except
for the oh so insignificant "a nap looks sooo enticing right now" or "ooh that
second helping of carbs smells delicious!" What I found most sustaining about
Celexa (or any other SSRI for that matter) was the renewed appreciation for the
micro physiological joys in life such as hunger and sleep (anyone relate to
this?).
3). SSRIs may cause initial weight loss but cause one to gain a huge amount of
weight over a longer period of time. Reason: down-regulation of serotonin
shortly after introduction of the med, but once it is in there for a while (6-8
weeks, or long enough for the so-called "therapeutic" effect to take place) the
body adjusts and serotonin levels increase and then comes the weight gain.
(What I would like to know is then, once weight is gained on an SSRI, is this
weight gain PERMANENT? I have read stories of people being unable to shed
pounds even after quitting certain SSRIs).
4). SSRIs permanently suppress the ability to remember dreams. I haven't been
able to remember my dreams quite as well since taking and stopping Celexa.
Based on some of the research I've seen and anecdotal evidence on Usenet some,
not all people shared this experience but of those that did, they had very flat
and emotionless dreams if they dreamt at all. It does appear that SSRIs
permanently blunt dreaming, as the ability to dream is dependent upon two
functions a) an intact visuo-spatial memory and b) sufficient drive and
motivation. Those who have been damaged in both the motivational circuits of
their brains and in their visual cortexes were unable to remember their dreams.
Does SSRI usage and their apparent minor damage to frontal lobe circuits have
any connection to this?
5). Has anyone had any experience with, say, Wellbutrin or Ritalin? If so I'm
very interested in what the effects are. The reason is because dopamine is
implicated in the inability to experience pleasure, and if this is so, wouldn't
it be a more logical route for someone with the amotivational variant of
depression (such as the one I have, and why I am posting today :-(
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
.
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| User: "old coyote" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on AD's - need feedback |
07 Dec 2003 06:53:47 PM |
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(Now What) wrote in
news:20031207193828.14167.00000452@mb-m28.aol.com:
Would like feedback on the below. Warning, this post is long and
somewhat of a "word-salad", though I am not psychotic :-/. I have a
few questions interspersed and if someone can comment on even a tiny
part of this, I would be grateful.
1). IMO, the reason SSRI's really work is not because of the
traditional theory of serotonin being like that of insulin to a
diabetic, but because they suppress brain function - you either don't
know or remember what was bothering you (otherwise, why would SSRA's
(the chemical opposite of SSRI's) like Tianeptine work so well?) There
must be something about the overall neurotoxicity of meds that causes
the brain to phreak out in some way and suppress cognitive function.
2). SSRI's make you feel 'good' not because of a significant change in
attitude but because of the bizarre bodily cravings they induce.
Example, I was on Celexa for a while and don't remember any noticeable
improvement in mood except for the oh so insignificant "a nap looks
sooo enticing right now" or "ooh that second helping of carbs smells
delicious!" What I found most sustaining about Celexa (or any other
SSRI for that matter) was the renewed appreciation for the micro
physiological joys in life such as hunger and sleep (anyone relate to
this?).
3). SSRIs may cause initial weight loss but cause one to gain a huge
amount of weight over a longer period of time. Reason: down-regulation
of serotonin shortly after introduction of the med, but once it is in
there for a while (6-8 weeks, or long enough for the so-called
"therapeutic" effect to take place) the body adjusts and serotonin
levels increase and then comes the weight gain. (What I would like to
know is then, once weight is gained on an SSRI, is this weight gain
PERMANENT? I have read stories of people being unable to shed pounds
even after quitting certain SSRIs).
4). SSRIs permanently suppress the ability to remember dreams. I
haven't been able to remember my dreams quite as well since taking and
stopping Celexa. Based on some of the research I've seen and anecdotal
evidence on Usenet some, not all people shared this experience but of
those that did, they had very flat and emotionless dreams if they
dreamt at all. It does appear that SSRIs permanently blunt dreaming,
as the ability to dream is dependent upon two functions a) an intact
visuo-spatial memory and b) sufficient drive and motivation. Those
who have been damaged in both the motivational circuits of their
brains and in their visual cortexes were unable to remember their
dreams. Does SSRI usage and their apparent minor damage to frontal
lobe circuits have any connection to this?
5). Has anyone had any experience with, say, Wellbutrin or Ritalin? If
so I'm very interested in what the effects are. The reason is because
dopamine is implicated in the inability to experience pleasure, and if
this is so, wouldn't it be a more logical route for someone with the
amotivational variant of depression (such as the one I have, and why I
am posting today :-(
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
It's hard for me to comment on any of the specifics of your post because I
honestly do not know the actual effects SSRIs have in the brain... yada
yada yada. What I can say is that they work for me, and it did take quite
a bit of experimentation to get it right. I take 40mg of Prozac and 300mg
of Wellbutrin on a daily basis, and I do feel better. Before, I always
wanted to die, and now, it's only an occasional thing. Is it because of
the SSRIs? Maybe. Could it be placebo? Maybe, but the bottom line is
that they work for me, and I am still here, and I am continuing to function
rather well on a day to day basis. Good luck to you. :)
--
-=oc=-
"Don't punish yourself for imagined sins." - Charles in asdf
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| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on AD's - need feedback |
07 Dec 2003 06:53:47 PM |
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No offense intended, but I don't see much reason to adopt your
hypothesis. It appears thinly based on your own personal experience,
and doesn't take into account others'. "Bizarre bodily cravings" are
far from universal reactions to antidepressant medications, so at this
point, I'll stick with more conventional hypotheses.
Still, keep on thinking. You at least have some interesting ideas.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
"Now What" <nwwhat7@aol.com.none> wrote in message
news:20031207193828.14167.00000452@mb-m28.aol.com...
Would like feedback on the below. Warning, this post is long and
somewhat of a
"word-salad", though I am not psychotic :-/. I have a few questions
interspersed and if someone can comment on even a tiny part of this,
I would be
grateful.
1). IMO, the reason SSRI's really work is not because of the
traditional theory
of serotonin being like that of insulin to a diabetic, but because
they
suppress brain function - you either don't know or remember what was
bothering
you (otherwise, why would SSRA's (the chemical opposite of SSRI's)
like
Tianeptine work so well?) There must be something about the overall
neurotoxicity of meds that causes the brain to phreak out in some
way and
suppress cognitive function.
2). SSRI's make you feel 'good' not because of a significant change
in attitude
but because of the bizarre bodily cravings they induce. Example, I
was on
Celexa for a while and don't remember any noticeable improvement in
mood except
for the oh so insignificant "a nap looks sooo enticing right now" or
"ooh that
second helping of carbs smells delicious!" What I found most
sustaining about
Celexa (or any other SSRI for that matter) was the renewed
appreciation for the
micro physiological joys in life such as hunger and sleep (anyone
relate to
this?).
3). SSRIs may cause initial weight loss but cause one to gain a huge
amount of
weight over a longer period of time. Reason: down-regulation of
serotonin
shortly after introduction of the med, but once it is in there for a
while (6-8
weeks, or long enough for the so-called "therapeutic" effect to take
place) the
body adjusts and serotonin levels increase and then comes the weight
gain.
(What I would like to know is then, once weight is gained on an
SSRI, is this
weight gain PERMANENT? I have read stories of people being unable to
shed
pounds even after quitting certain SSRIs).
4). SSRIs permanently suppress the ability to remember dreams. I
haven't been
able to remember my dreams quite as well since taking and stopping
Celexa.
Based on some of the research I've seen and anecdotal evidence on
Usenet some,
not all people shared this experience but of those that did, they
had very flat
and emotionless dreams if they dreamt at all. It does appear that
SSRIs
permanently blunt dreaming, as the ability to dream is dependent
upon two
functions a) an intact visuo-spatial memory and b) sufficient drive
and
motivation. Those who have been damaged in both the motivational
circuits of
their brains and in their visual cortexes were unable to remember
their dreams.
Does SSRI usage and their apparent minor damage to frontal lobe
circuits have
any connection to this?
5). Has anyone had any experience with, say, Wellbutrin or Ritalin?
If so I'm
very interested in what the effects are. The reason is because
dopamine is
implicated in the inability to experience pleasure, and if this is
so, wouldn't
it be a more logical route for someone with the amotivational
variant of
depression (such as the one I have, and why I am posting today :-(
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
.
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| User: "Jamilyn" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on AD's - need feedback |
08 Dec 2003 01:28:18 AM |
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On 08 Dec 2003 00:38:28 GMT, (Now What) wrote:
Would like feedback on the below. Warning, this post is long and somewhat of a
"word-salad", though I am not psychotic :-/. I have a few questions
interspersed and if someone can comment on even a tiny part of this, I would be
grateful.
1). IMO, the reason SSRI's really work is not because of the traditional theory
of serotonin being like that of insulin to a diabetic, but because they
suppress brain function - you either don't know or remember what was bothering
you (otherwise, why would SSRA's (the chemical opposite of SSRI's) like
Tianeptine work so well?) There must be something about the overall
neurotoxicity of meds that causes the brain to phreak out in some way and
suppress cognitive function.
I have not heard of this aspect of SSRI's. Personally I never found
them to be of much effect.
2). SSRI's make you feel 'good' not because of a significant change in attitude
but because of the bizarre bodily cravings they induce. Example, I was on
Celexa for a while and don't remember any noticeable improvement in mood except
for the oh so insignificant "a nap looks sooo enticing right now" or "ooh that
second helping of carbs smells delicious!" What I found most sustaining about
Celexa (or any other SSRI for that matter) was the renewed appreciation for the
micro physiological joys in life such as hunger and sleep (anyone relate to
this?).
Don't think my appetite increased, but I did have to start taking
Losec for hyper acidity, and had daily headaches. I never found them
to assist my sleeping in any way, in fact the opposite occurred, had a
terrible time getting to sleep and sleeping throughout the night.
3). SSRIs may cause initial weight loss but cause one to gain a huge amount of
weight over a longer period of time. Reason: down-regulation of serotonin
shortly after introduction of the med, but once it is in there for a while (6-8
weeks, or long enough for the so-called "therapeutic" effect to take place) the
body adjusts and serotonin levels increase and then comes the weight gain.
(What I would like to know is then, once weight is gained on an SSRI, is this
weight gain PERMANENT? I have read stories of people being unable to shed
pounds even after quitting certain SSRIs).
I did gain weight, but once I was off the SSRI's I lost all the weight
I had gained and have recently even hit a 15 year low. I have been
experiencing an odd phenomenon of forgetting to eat. I get to 4 or 5
pm and realize I haven't eaten anything all day. My portion sizes have
gone way down and I do seem to be eating less, but this is not the
result of a conscious effort, it's just how things are now. The more I
think on this, this is what my eating habits were like before the
SSRI's.
4). SSRIs permanently suppress the ability to remember dreams. I haven't been
able to remember my dreams quite as well since taking and stopping Celexa.
Based on some of the research I've seen and anecdotal evidence on Usenet some,
not all people shared this experience but of those that did, they had very flat
and emotionless dreams if they dreamt at all. It does appear that SSRIs
permanently blunt dreaming, as the ability to dream is dependent upon two
functions a) an intact visuo-spatial memory and b) sufficient drive and
motivation. Those who have been damaged in both the motivational circuits of
their brains and in their visual cortexes were unable to remember their dreams.
Does SSRI usage and their apparent minor damage to frontal lobe circuits have
any connection to this?
Nope. My dreams are as graphic as they have always
been...unfortunately.
5). Has anyone had any experience with, say, Wellbutrin or Ritalin? If so I'm
very interested in what the effects are. The reason is because dopamine is
implicated in the inability to experience pleasure, and if this is so, wouldn't
it be a more logical route for someone with the amotivational variant of
depression (such as the one I have, and why I am posting today :-(
No, I am back on Elavil, an old tricyclic, and feel better than I have
in years. It's difficult to look back and see how well I did overall
on the SSRI (Luvox). It seems to have created more problems than it
solved.
This is the darkest time of the year for me, the anniversary of my
mother's loss is this Saturday, and while I have been caught off guard
by music, these experiences are fleeting and less frequent than they
were last year at this time. I find I am able to face the sorrow, cry
if I feel like it, and then move on with the day. I have A LOT less
fear and anxiety than I did before the switch as well.
The thing that I am learning about my illness is that it is part of
who I am. Nothing that happens in my life is not affected by it in
some way. I have had three major episodes now, am the daughter of a
suicide and will need to be medicated for the rest of my life. The up
side is that I am highly intelligent, introspective and resilient.
There is no magic pill, but the longer I live with it the better I get
at living with it.
I do believe that medication is essential to the struggle, but so is
learning about what your triggers are and being aware of the dangers
(Toxic people, stressful situations) understanding what my triggers
and weaknesses are has helped me to deal with it as well. The most
important thing is forgiveness and hope. Forgiving your own perceived
crimes, and the belief that somehow I can handle anything that comes
down the pipe.
I have depression, and I'm not ashamed or afraid of it anymore. Keep
looking for the way through, it IS there, thought it is sometimes hard
to find.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Jamilyn
- you say I'm a ***** like it's a bad thing
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