| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Bev Thornton" |
| Date: |
22 Jun 2005 02:54:35 AM |
| Object: |
[NEWS] New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
PittChronicle, Pitt Researchers Report:
New Treatment for Complicated Grief Holds Promise for Millions of Americans
By Lisa Rossi June 20, 2005 Issue
Complicated grief treatment (CGT), which was developed by the study
authors specifically to address complicated grief symptoms, was found
to be significantly more effective than a comparison psychotherapy,
interpersonal psychotherapy (IPT), in the treatment of complicated
grief. During the course of the three-year study, 51 percent of
participants treated with CGT improved significantly, compared with 28
percent who improved following IPT. Patients being treated with CGT
also responded to the therapy significantly faster.
While IPT is a treatment that has proven to be effective for
depression and can be specifically focused for bereavement-related
depression in clinical practice, it appeared to be less effective in
treating complicated grief. So, the authors enhanced IPT to create
CGTunique in its two-pronged approach, in which therapists
simultaneously guide patients to focus both on the loss and on
rebuilding their own lives.
The bereavement process can go awry, and in 15-to-20 percent of all
people who are surviving a loss, it does, said Katherine Shear,
principal investigator of the study and professor of psychiatry in
Pitts School of Medicine. Grief is natural after the death of someone
close, and over time, the yearning for the deceased and the emotional
pain diminish in intensity. However, when this natural process is
arrested, this may very well be complicated grief, which we now know
is treatable.
While complicated grief is not yet included in the American
Psychiatric Associations Diagnostic and Statistical Manual because it
is a newly characterized condition, its symptoms are identifiable and
most often occur following the death of one member of a very close and
loving relationship.
<http://www.umc.pitt.edu/media/pcc/sci3_grief_2005JUNE20.html>
--
<bevthornton@despammed.com> Support: <http://www.hpicanada.ca/>
Joy follows a pure thought, like a shadow that never leaves.
.
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| User: "Rosena" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 09:56:47 AM |
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It annoys me so much the way every state of being in our age becomes a
medical condition. I read the article. It is so silly. Some people
love hard, and the loss is too much to bear. This isn't a condition. It
is grief. And the "treatment" this study did is the obvious route for
friends, family, and loved ones to take in helping someone in deep
grief overcome it . . .
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
Rosena
Bev Thornton wrote:
PittChronicle, Pitt Researchers Report:
New Treatment for Complicated Grief Holds Promise for Millions of Americans
By Lisa Rossi June 20, 2005 Issue
Complicated grief treatment (CGT), which was developed by the study
authors specifically to address complicated grief symptoms, was found
to be significantly more effective than a comparison psychotherapy,
interpersonal psychotherapy (IPT), in the treatment of complicated
grief. During the course of the three-year study, 51 percent of
participants treated with CGT improved significantly, compared with 28
percent who improved following IPT. Patients being treated with CGT
also responded to the therapy significantly faster.
While IPT is a treatment that has proven to be effective for
depression and can be specifically focused for bereavement-related
depression in clinical practice, it appeared to be less effective in
treating complicated grief. So, the authors enhanced IPT to create
CGTunique in its two-pronged approach, in which therapists
simultaneously guide patients to focus both on the loss and on
rebuilding their own lives.
The bereavement process can go awry, and in 15-to-20 percent of all
people who are surviving a loss, it does, said Katherine Shear,
principal investigator of the study and professor of psychiatry in
Pitts School of Medicine. Grief is natural after the death of someone
close, and over time, the yearning for the deceased and the emotional
pain diminish in intensity. However, when this natural process is
arrested, this may very well be complicated grief, which we now know
is treatable.
While complicated grief is not yet included in the American
Psychiatric Associations Diagnostic and Statistical Manual because it
is a newly characterized condition, its symptoms are identifiable and
most often occur following the death of one member of a very close and
loving relationship.
<http://www.umc.pitt.edu/media/pcc/sci3_grief_2005JUNE20.html>
--
<bevthornton@despammed.com> Support: <http://www.hpicanada.ca/>
Joy follows a pure thought, like a shadow that never leaves.
.
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| User: "Rhiannon" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
25 Jun 2005 11:36:09 AM |
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"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119452206.958869.251240@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It annoys me so much the way every state of being in our age becomes a
medical condition. I read the article. It is so silly. Some people
love hard, and the loss is too much to bear. This isn't a condition. It
is grief. And the "treatment" this study did is the obvious route for
friends, family, and loved ones to take in helping someone in deep
grief overcome it . . .
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
Rosena
Yeah. The medical community does seem to be blurring the line between the
normal human condition and deviations from such.
As for the angst of existence being part of the creative process. Who can
say for sure without knowing the mind of the artist. For me, it's about
making the best of a bad situation. Striving to find anything positive and
useful in an illness that is ugly and senseless, not to mention stuck with
whether I want it or not.
Of course, if you are making reference to Saints and suffering. That is a
whole other animal.
--
rhianon@sympatico.ca
"Often, and unfortunately, sometimes our
best view of God is from Hell."
@LW2005
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 11:20:11 AM |
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In article <1119452206.958869.251240@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
Did you read the part about how this form of pathological grief can lead
to suicide? Is that part of the "poetry, magic, and mystery" of life?
Did you read the part of how sufferers of this form of grief are
encouraged to resume pleasurable activities they enjoyed before the
death of the loved one? Did that idea "horrify" you?
You're a suffering fetishist, Rosena. You should have been born a
medieval monk, you could sleep in leather suits with nails pointed
inward to keep you from sleeping so that you could suffer endlessly,
offering it up to the glory of God.
I don't know if you're into real physical S&M, but you might give it a
whirl. Just be careful. Safewords and all that.
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| User: "Rosena" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 07:36:15 PM |
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Mark,
I stick with what I said, well at least the intent of what I said, even
if I did not articulate it well. I am WELL aware of how hard grief can
be, and how much one needs help of others to move forward and rebuild
his or her life after losing someone. You did *not* get the drift of
what I was saying. I am simply saying our modern society is anxious to
turn the most common (and complex) human conditions into a "disorder"
that needs "clinincal treatment" and the hand of a "professional" to
"get us straight." This clinical quasi-scientific approach to life
horrifys me. Moreover, we don't need a "study" to tell has that
intense grief can kill us. This intense grief is not "pathological"
as you say. Deep grief comes with the loss of deep love and indeed is
worthy of our respect NOTWITHSTANDING that we should help those who
suffer to go on and find peace.
I also want to say something else. Over the years you pretty much stay
away from me though I am nothing but polite and civil with you. Indeed,
I enjoy your wit much. But when you deign to engage with me you seem
to always want to twist what I say, and to imply I am strange. This
particularly true whenever the subject comes to suffering. You abhor
suffering.
Yet, suffering is part of the human condition. Whether it be in child
birth, in the loss of loved ones, in mental illness, or in dying from
cancer. And for some of us, we wish to see life as justified. And to
do that one must find a way to come to terms with suffering, to say
"amen" to it, or we do not truly love the human condition in any
profound way (and the worldly life). You are an intelligent man Mark,
so I assume you know what theodicy is. Many many great minds - monks,
philosophers, scholars of all kinds and literary giants have for 2000
years dealt with the questions of theodicy with great urgency, with
deep commitment. Some of this work is profound. Anselm, Aquinas,
Aristotle to name the three As alone.
So, when you implicitly put me down eith your little snipe, you are
also putting down a tradition of thought that has struggled with the
question of suffering's justification in the most profound way. This
is arrogant to my mind.
I suggest you try to understand what my work is, what questions plague
me, why they seem important and so forth by engaging with me rather
than every so often - out of the blue -- throwing a snide remark at me.
Rosena
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 10:10:03 PM |
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In article <1119486975.528161.192970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
I am simply saying our modern society is anxious to turn the most
common (and complex) human conditions into a "disorder" that needs
"clinincal treatment" and the hand of a "professional" to "get us
straight."
That may or may not be true, but you chose the present context to make
your point, and I don't think it applies in the present context.
Moreover, we don't need a "study" to tell has that intense grief can
kill us. This intense grief is not "pathological" as you say.
The article made clear that it was not talking about normal grief, which
is by its very nature of course intense. Unfortunately, it didn't make
clear exactly what the diagnostic criteria are for "complicated grief",
the conditions that would distinguish it from "normal" grief, but that's
just the fault of the article's author. Certainly I would say there's a
wee problem with grief that drives someone to suicide, and that we might
well benefit from a "study" that helps us help people in that state.
Yet, suffering is part of the human condition.
So what? So are broken limbs, third degree burns, AIDS, rape, torture,
and a whole lot of other things. Bad things happen to people, calling
that "part of the human condition" doesn't add anything to that
unpleasant truth.
so I assume you know what theodicy is.
In spite of what some might insist, I hold myself to be an atheist, so
that particular question does not exactly engage me.
So, when you implicitly put me down eith your little snipe, you are
also putting down a tradition of thought [including. Anselm, Aquinas,
Aristotle] that has struggled with the question of suffering's
justification in the most profound way. This is arrogant to my mind.
Rosena, I studied Aristotle. I knew Aristotle. Aristotle was a friend of
mine. Rosena, you're no Aristotle.
But seriously, you are making an implicit comparison here that is
pretentious and hardly well taken, and I would invite you to find
anything in the writings of any of those philosophers that indicates
they would be opposed to clinical remedies for severe psychiatric
disorders because "suffering is part of the human condition".
I suggest you try to understand what my work is, what questions plague
me, why they seem important and so forth by engaging with me rather
than every so often - out of the blue -- throwing a snide remark at me.
Fair enough. I should try that, you're right. But I do think you're out
there in a very bad place when you get into some of this stuff about how
suffering and illness supposedly exalt us into a greater state of glory.
.
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| User: "Rosena" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 10:18:20 PM |
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I make only one correction - I in NO way meant to imply that my
research or publications in ANYWAY amount to very much. I will never
ever rise one half an inch of half an inch close to the nearly
boundless genuis of the men I mentioned. I did not mean to imply that.
(and you should know me well enough to know I didn't but yet . . .but
yet . . .you took another damn swipe at me).
Theodicy may not be important to you. Fair enough. But it is
important to me. And because what I ask questions about, is not what
you would ask questions about does not make my questions daff.
Rosena
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 10:30:05 PM |
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In article <1119496700.353642.308930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
Theodicy may not be important to you. Fair enough. But it is
important to me. And because what I ask questions about, is not what
you would ask questions about does not make my questions daff.
You were not "asking questions", you were mocking and expressing
"horror" at an evolving branch of medicine that might help certain sick,
suffering people not be so sick and not suffer so much.
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| User: "Rosena" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
23 Jun 2005 04:07:33 PM |
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There is our point of difference - I do not think intense grief (which
I assume is complicated grief is) is a sickness. I am tierd of states
of being which involve intense emotion frequently being categorized as
a "sickness."
I stick to being horrified at that. The fact that people can feel so
deeply as to suffer without abatement often says more about their
character (in a positive way) than their "mental health"
Whatever.
Rosena
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| User: "Whiskers" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
24 Jun 2005 02:22:59 PM |
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On 2005-06-23, Rosena <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
There is our point of difference - I do not think intense grief (which
I assume is complicated grief is) is a sickness. I am tierd of states
of being which involve intense emotion frequently being categorized as
a "sickness."
I stick to being horrified at that. The fact that people can feel so
deeply as to suffer without abatement often says more about their
character (in a positive way) than their "mental health"
Whatever.
Rosena
I can't help thinking that your viewpoint sounds more than a little
medieval. Ideas have moved on a little since Julian of Norwich; not that
current ideas are necessarily any more perfect, of course.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
23 Jun 2005 04:11:26 PM |
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X-No-Archive: yes
Rosena wrote:
The fact that people can feel so deeply as to suffer
without abatement often says more about their character
(in a positive way) than their "mental health".
Yeah! Suffering Rocks!
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
23 Jun 2005 09:47:53 PM |
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On 23 Jun 2005 14:11:26 -0700, "RGB" <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote:
->Yeah! Suffering Rocks!
<sighs>
<sits on hands>
<unplugs keyboard>
--
I've always loved me, I was just taught that I didn't.
- %
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
23 Jun 2005 10:34:42 PM |
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In article <9qsmb1h3gh1kuns3ljsiqg4gdt98vjghih@4ax.com>,
notchimera<dont@bother.com> wrote:
-> Yeah! Suffering Rocks!
<sighs>
<sits on hands>
<unplugs keyboard>
I'd rather suffer within a basement than suffer without abatement.
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| User: "Tim Kett" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
23 Jun 2005 09:59:48 PM |
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RGB <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote in article
<1119561086.290211.196270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
X-No-Archive: yes
Rosena wrote:
The fact that people can feel so deeply as to suffer
without abatement often says more about their character
(in a positive way) than their "mental health".
Yeah! Suffering Rocks!
Well, I wanted my ex-family back so bad that it drove me deep into
depression.
Shortly after I finally got treatment 5 years ago, I realised that I never
want them back in my life.
Positive character can destroy emotional health, when it is irrational.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 07:38:32 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:20:11 GMT, RGB <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote:
->I don't know if you're into real physical S&M, but you might give it a
->whirl. Just be careful. Safewords and all that.
S&M people have to be fully aware of what they are doing, able to
fully trust one another and willing to negotiate power dynamics. I
don't think she's there. Nor do I think a reasonable top would take
her on.
--
I've always loved me, I was just taught that I didn't.
- %
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 09:04:56 PM |
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"notchimera" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:ts0kb1pjol41iolfpv6tilgt69j8094asb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:20:11 GMT, RGB <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote:
->I don't know if you're into real physical S&M, but you might give it a
->whirl. Just be careful. Safewords and all that.
S&M people have to be fully aware of what they are doing, able to
fully trust one another and willing to negotiate power dynamics. I
don't think she's there. Nor do I think a reasonable top would take
her on.
Yes, but are you on Oprah's speed dial?
Jean
--
I've always loved me, I was just taught that I didn't.
- %
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| User: "Rosena" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 07:48:41 PM |
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***** Claudia
Rosena
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 09:20:45 PM |
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"Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119487721.776720.209430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
***** Claudia
Rosena! You may have just lost your chance for a FREE CAR!
Jean
Rosena
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| User: "RGB" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 10:12:19 PM |
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In article <ts0kb1pjol41iolfpv6tilgt69j8094asb@4ax.com>,
notchimera<dont@bother.com> wrote:
I don't know if you're into real physical S&M, but you might give it a
whirl. Just be careful. Safewords and all that.
S&M people have to be fully aware of what they are doing, able to
fully trust one another and willing to negotiate power dynamics. I
don't think she's there. Nor do I think a reasonable top would take
her on.
I was being facetious. I specifically think S&M is very bad for people
into suffering, as opposed to pain.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 11:21:56 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:12:19 GMT, RGB <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote:
->I was being facetious. I specifically think S&M is very bad for people
->into suffering, as opposed to pain.
Point taken. I agree.
--
I've always loved me, I was just taught that I didn't.
- %
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| User: "Evil Raphy" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 10:25:21 PM |
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What? am i in the wrong forum?
"RGB" <rrggbb@mac.com> wrote in message
news:nMpue.138167$eh1.34585@fe07.news.easynews.com...
In article <ts0kb1pjol41iolfpv6tilgt69j8094asb@4ax.com>,
notchimera<dont@bother.com> wrote:
I don't know if you're into real physical S&M, but you might give it a
whirl. Just be careful. Safewords and all that.
S&M people have to be fully aware of what they are doing, able to
fully trust one another and willing to negotiate power dynamics. I
don't think she's there. Nor do I think a reasonable top would take
her on.
I was being facetious. I specifically think S&M is very bad for people
into suffering, as opposed to pain.
.
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| User: "Bev Thornton" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 09:16:12 PM |
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On 2005-06-22, Rosena wrote:
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
All of that is all there all at once. And more.
--
<bevthornton@despammed.com> Support: <http://www.merlin.org.uk/>
Little by little a person becomes evil,
as a water pot is filled by drops of water.
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| User: "CyberDroog" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 11:05:51 AM |
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On 22 Jun 2005 07:56:47 -0700, "Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
It annoys me so much the way every state of being in our age becomes a
medical condition. I read the article. It is so silly. Some people
love hard, and the loss is too much to bear. This isn't a condition. It
is grief. And the "treatment" this study did is the obvious route for
friends, family, and loved ones to take in helping someone in deep
grief overcome it . . .
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
You sound like you are in desperate need of some soma and perhaps an
extended stay at a re-education camp.
--
REBEL, n. A proponent of a new misrule who has failed to establish it.
- Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Ivan Marsh" |
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| Title: Re: New Treatment for Complicated Grief |
22 Jun 2005 01:38:55 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:05:51 +0000, CyberDroog wrote:
On 22 Jun 2005 07:56:47 -0700, "Rosena" <filpriros@aol.com> wrote:
It annoys me so much the way every state of being in our age becomes a
medical condition. I read the article. It is so silly. Some people
love hard, and the loss is too much to bear. This isn't a condition. It
is grief. And the "treatment" this study did is the obvious route for
friends, family, and loved ones to take in helping someone in deep
grief overcome it . . .
We take all the poetry, magic, and mystery out of life - the angst of
existence - and replace it with "science" and "conditions" and
"syndromes" - it is horrific to my mind.
You sound like you are in desperate need of some soma and perhaps an
extended stay at a re-education camp.
Dude! Totally rockin' the Huxley reference. You just made my day.
--
"Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Benjamin Franklin (I didn't know he was a Buddhist)
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