It is sad that Good News can be spoiled or obscured by messengers who make
mistakes or rub people up the wrong way.

I'm not too keen on Organised Religion, but I do think that individual
'spirituality' (for want of a better word) is real, and valuable, and that
personal study of scriptures (of various religions and philosophies) is
worth the effort. I don't necessarily agree with (or believe) all that
I've read, but I hope I can respect other people's beliefs. It's one

to say "I believe ...", but quite another for anyone to say "You should
believe ..." (let alone "You must believe, or else"). (And I do know

creates a paradox).

I'm sad that anyone gets hurt or confused or misled by people who claim to
be acting as members of any religious group (I don't think 'Christian'
groups are the only culprits) - and I know that there are people, and
groups, 'out there', who do not act like that or try to impose their own
beliefs, but rather try to live up to an ideal. Those people don't

any power they might have, and I honestly think they try not to hurt

- and would be extremely upset if they inadvertantly did - but they don't
get publicity, and don't want it, so it's easy to not notice them. They
follow many paths of faith, many are 'members' of one or another Organised
Religion, probably as many are not active members of any religious group.
They won't necessarily stand up and identify themselves as being such
people either, if asked: many of them probably don't know they are, they
just get on with it.

I rip on Buddha and every other heathen god the way every Christian is
suppose to, see Elijah and prophets of Baal. there is a very good
reason why God told the children of Israel not to allow foreigners and
their pagan gods amongst their mists, this is why.

THOU SHALL NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS.

Period, end of discussion, no comprises, God doesn't give a ***** about
your reasoning, I think that's why he phased it THOU SHALL NOT...

Regardless of what Pig fucking other religions say, man is not God,
never will be god, they are but dust, judging god on the basis of
humans makes as much sense as relating sand dunes to the Sears tower.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:56:09 +1000, "Velvet"
<s4041966@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

x-no-archive: yes

How do you explain all those well-known mistranslations
of the Bible throughout the centuries,
and the fact that the Bible clearly contains passages which
were not written by the original authors, but added
later, like St. Mark's 16:9-20, or the German protestant
removing various references to ovens from their
Bibles after 1945?

My biggest grumble about all things Biblical is the sheer amount of

and nastiness in it, in both Testaments.

Weather you like it or not is beside the point, you are but dust, a
spec in the infinite ocean of eternity. God had a plan, the devil and
man decided to rebel, this is the consequence.

Contradictions and deliberate electives and bad translations just add to

Rule 1: The bible can not contradict itself, if you believe that it is
contradicting itself, you just don't get it since by definition, God
is never wrong. It boils down to who do you trust, a all powerful,
all knowing being, or you own insignificant human understanding.

I agree with Indigo
on that the message is undoubtedly good, but personally I wouldn't read

the gospels for it - the rest of it is even more muddled.

Heaven and Earth will pass away, but the words in that book will never
pass away, as divinely proclaimed. It's all the truth, every word, if
any man(person) lacks knowledge/widom (of the word) - let him ask of
God who gives all good things liberally.


You have not, because you ask not

There are 3 (or is t 4?) versions of the 10 commandments

No, there are only one set of commandments, they were/are written in
ancient hebrew, so there have been some mis translations, most notably

Thou shall not kill, which literally translated states thou shall not
commit first degree murder, but if people actually READ THE BOOK, and
saw the chapters explaining what the commandments meant with examples
and everything, there would be no mistakes.

two varieties of the Hebrew Law
(the second written upon their release from Babylon, and its a lot

than the first as they were rebuilding their society). Most people

realise just how nasty the story of Sodom is, or that there is another,
similar, story in the OT that supports the view that its much better to

your two teenage daughters (or a concubine) to be gang raped by the feral
crowds rather than let strangers suffer same ( how on earth the story of
Sodom is used to illustrate that God doesn't like "gay" people is beyond
me... )

It's IN THE BOOK, and it's repeated over and over, and over again to
pound it into retarded humans thick skulls.

Homosexuality is the one of the epitomize of a corrupt evil society,
things have gotten so bad that homosexuality runs rampet, it's a
barometer.

You know you a society is really sick when homosexuality runs rampet,
that simple.

Or that God doesn't want menstruating women to prepare food or go
into churches or indeed talk to men (men were to go and wash themselves
after touching a menstruating woman - they were made unclean,

Those are the old deutoromical(sp) laws, and that is how the ancient
hebrews were to conduct themselves, many parts have been
scientifically proven, 3,000 years ago, people didn't have modern
medicine, so God gave them made things very simple for them because of
their limited understanding - Menstruating women are unclean,
discharging of bodily fluids propagate diseases.

I don't explain the reasons to my pets or small children why they
should not do things, they wouldn't understand even if I did, No don't
do that because I said so. They live alot longer that way. Again,
it's a matter of trust, do you trust God to look after you, or will
you be a stupid animal and rely on your own limited understanding.

Or being put to death for eating shellfish.

That isn't biblical, what is biblical is that shellfish were
considered "unclean" animals, you wouldn't be put to death, you would
eat them and you would die. Sure enough, how many cases of people
dying from shellfish happen every year?

However that 'rule' has been superceeded by the new testimate where
the Lord (Jesus) told Peter "How are you to call what I made
unclean????"

Or masturbating.

Like Homosexuality, it's a symptom of a bigger problem - Lust.

Again, Do you follow the Lord, or the worthless crap that humans come
up with?

Or that women were supposed to keep their mouths shut in public places

their husbands or fathers for any decision (St Paul said that)

Yes, he did, and if you READ THE BOOK, you will notice that he
explicitly states that He, Paul, thinks it's the way it should be, it
is NOT divinely commanded.

Or St John
(as well as many others) evidently pigging out on magic mushies before
writing Apocalypse

I need a cite to answer, but to feminists, the absolute truth is this,
in the beginning, God made MAN, God gave man a mind, and free will, he
is made in God's image, but is not God. God observed Man and though,
gee he looks lonely, this is not good, Let us make him a help mate,
and thus women was 'born'.

Women were explicitly created to help men, by divine decree, you don't
like it, ***** at God, but be forewarned, he, like everyone else hates
whinners and ingrates.
.

My BIG question is, where do you draw the line between "belief" and
disregarding the inconvenient bits?

For every word that is added, the Lord shall add plagues onto those
who add, for every word that is discarded, God will take away their
eternal reward, how's that.

What in the Bible is cultural,
irrelevant, outdated or specific to those people and that situation.

So is everything else, but it's the fundamental principals that
matter, not the specifics.

If you think the bible is complicated, try calculus or physics, you
start with very broad, utterly complicated rules, and by understanding
how they work, derive simple solutions for specific problems.

what is mythology and what is the true voice of the divine?

The "bible" is an immortal, living thing, there are no 'myths'.

And whom do you listen to when you are trying to answer that question?

your sense of rational or your heart?

Both are the wrong answer, if you have a question, why not try asking
the person who wrote the book (a/k/a God).

I spent 4 years of my life running around with a Catholic community of
sorts, and still can't forget the sheer hypocrisy and bigotry of these
otherwise nice, reasonable, people.

It would be interesting to hear what the specifics of the bigotry
where, as for hypocrisy, that too is the human condition, do as I say,
not as I do.

Its a long and bitter story. They used
the Bible to support their treatment of me and my close friend who was
driven to nervous breakdown by them. Even those of them who were studying

doing postgrad / lecturing at universities put all their scientific

and logical thinking on hold when talking about religion.

The early scientists, including Einstein had the right approach, God
designed the universe, we are just trying to figure out how he did it.

"Intellectuals" discount the absolute truths, having no faith, they
are educated fools, and are and should be treated accordingly.

Needless to say,
upon sober and very painful reflection, and many months of agonising, I

the whole system of beliefs behind, am now back to atheist / Buddhist

I rip on Buddha and every other heathen god the way every Christian is
suppose to, see Elijah and prophets of Baal. there is a very good
reason why God told the children of Israel not to allow foreigners and
their pagan gods amongst their mists, this is why.

THOU SHALL NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS.

Period, end of discussion, no comprises, God doesn't give a ***** about
your reasoning, I think that's why he phased it THOU SHALL NOT...

if I
had to pigeon hole myself. Now *please* don't tell me that it was just

and there are other Christians who are "good and true to the word of god

out there - I've seen more groups than fingers on my hands, and these
people were some of the best!

Regardless of what Pig fucking other religions say, man is not God,
never will be god, they are but dust, judging god on the basis of
humans makes as much sense as relating sand dunes to the Sears tower.

x-no-archive: yes

My BIG question is, where do you draw the line between "belief" and
disregarding the inconvenient bits? What in the Bible is cultural,
irrelevant, outdated or specific to those
people and that situation, what is
mythology and what is the true voice of the divine? And whom do you

to when you are trying to answer that question? Your preacher or priest,
your sense of rational or your heart?

I agree, thats the big problem. The priest, of course, will
claim that he has the ultimate authority.

Thomas