Re: True mechanism behind "narcissism"



 Sociology > Depression > Re: True mechanism behind "narcissism"

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Topic: Sociology > Depression
User: "% surfs@uniserve"
Date: 20 Aug 2004 12:39:55 PM
Object: Re: True mechanism behind "narcissism"
i don't inhabit the same world you do and you said , " we " so this is all
horse hockey
"Bodhisattvacat" <drr0cket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f2532f6.0408200936.323b55b0@posting.google.com...

The self-obsession that is considered symptomatic of narcissism is
actually due to a direct causal factor bypassing narcissism: An
inner battle that almost inevitably accompanies originality of
mind.

When a person violates the values of people around him, or when he
does something that draws the ire of his upbringing - all typical
results of a mind that works in an unusual way - there develops an
inner battle, with voices inside telling the person that he is bad
or unworthy or evil. The person develops a need to battle these
voices in order to stay afloat.

To a person looking on, the constant self-emphasis appears like
"malignant self-love." Far rather, this is a result of an inner
battle to keep up one's spirit alive amid constant nattering that
tries to drag it down. The more fierce the nattering, the more
time and energy spent defending the self. Needless to say, the
self-defense stops when one overrides, outsmarts, refutes or
defeats the nattering, or when it goes away on its own accord or
due to a change in environment.

I have encountered a number of people who have been accused of
narcissism. The one trait they held in common was originality of
perspective; they all did things their own way. Needless to say,
someone who has originality of perspective or does things his own
way will have lots of negative run-ins with his or her social
environment, and there will likely be lots of need for moral
self-defense, as well as self-doubt and unstable self-esteem and
self-image.

The belief that it is a narcissistic trait to be always obsessed
with ideas is a failure to see this direct, much more precise,
causality in play. A person who has an original and creative mind
will be most certainly obsessed with ideas, inventions, etc. He
will also run the displeasure of people or inner voices that
claim to speak for society, and he will therefore find it
necessary at times to defend himself. As the conflict drags on,
self-defense becomes akin to self-obsession; it is also possible
to have such side effects as self-destructiveness and self-hatred.
Which, of course, is all part of the clinical description of
narcissism - and which I have just explained using simple
psychological causal analysis without the need to resort to the
dubious science of character psychology that demonizes anyone who
is interesting and unusual and claims boring consumeristic stiffs
to be the only sane people.

Howard Stern said that although he is a millionaire he still feels
like a loser. This is of course due to voices of his family, of
society, etc., attacking him for not doing what they wanted him to
do. A Marilyn Monroe who fights the taboos of a drab civilization
to bring into the world some spirit, beauty and excitement gets
morally abused, develops inner battling and turns
self-destructive. This happens to the most exciting, most
original people; and I would like those of them who read what I
write to understand the mechanism as I have explained it in order
to be able to resist being labeled as narcissists and subjected to
psychic torture.

I consider this issue to be particularly vital because this
trait - originality of perspective and doing things one's own
way - is a trait that is essential for innovation, as well as for
novel perspectives against which to scrutinize ideas in all areas
of life and in the fabric of society. A psychology that claims the
people capable of doing this service as possessing a personality
disorder makes such people doubt themselves and prevents this
service from being done and leads to perpetuation within society
of bad ideas and erroneous thought. The people who have such frame
of mind are absolutely necessary for vibrancy of the world we
inhabit, for continued innovation, as well as for ombudsman's
perspective that checks against errors new and inbuilt.

A side note is that self-esteem appears to have almost no
correlation with actual human worth. The best people are ones who
are self-perfecting, self-critical and self-demanding, and they
often have negative self-esteem due to the high standard by which
they measure themselves. When it becomes the bromide of America to
unconditionally raise people's self-esteem out of a belief that
most psychological problems are caused by rather than cause low
self-esteem, quality of humanity goes down (as Lisbeth's husband
said, people de-evolve), and many people develop positive self-
esteem without possessing any actual human worth and go around
parading their ugliness, stupidity and obesity and demanding that
the world accept and respect them or be considered patriarchial or
misogynistic when it does not. Meanwhile the self-perfecting
person who knows better and would have no part of this foolishness
remains paralyzed with low self-esteem and is unable to own up to
her potential and use it to stand up to bullies or have a good
life. The overabundance of ballerinas, champion swimmers,
gymnasts, chess players and childhood prodigies - early achievers
who possess the self-perfecting character - among America's
psychiatric patients means that the self-perfecting character
finds it hard to manage in an American society that places no
value on human development and equates all value with bottom line.
The self-esteem psychology and personality psychology do nothing
to change this situation and in fact confuse people as to the
source of their problems.

Ilya Shambat
http://www.geocities.com/drr0cket

.

User: "Little Monster"

Title: Re: True mechanism behind "narcissism" 21 Aug 2004 12:29:16 PM
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:39:55 -0700, the world was enlightented by %, unto
whom the words are attributed:

i don't inhabit the same world you do and you said , " we " so this is all
horse hockey

<g> Succinct as ever...
Monster
--
I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy
All the girls love me
And I will never grow Ooollldd
I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay!
http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk
.
User: "% surfs@uniserve"

Title: Re: True mechanism behind "narcissism" 21 Aug 2004 12:26:15 PM
LETS DO THE CROSSPOST AGAIN
.



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