| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
28 Jul 2005 07:46:35 PM |
| Object: |
Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
I find the concept of self-esteem to be a Trojan horse.
Once you've allowed yourself to see yourself as something to be
esteemed, you have essentially made yourself a commodity.
You have taken the center of thought out of where it belongs and placed
it into the marketing-based social construct. Which means that you've
already lost before you have started playing.
It is not acceptable to anyone with any true self-esteem to be a
commodity, whether one valued or not. Which means that it is not
acceptable to accept the concept.
A friend of mine asked a guy who was confident, athletic, musical,
etc., how he got his high self-esteem. His response: "I don't have
self-esteem. I know myself through God."
That, is a far more acceptable attitude than one of identifying one's
image with marketing orientation and becoming one of the many things
people buy and sell.
Ilya Shambat.
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| User: "cal" |
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| Title: Re: Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
28 Jul 2005 11:23:16 PM |
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<ibshambat2004@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122597995.899876.26620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I find the concept of self-esteem to be a Trojan horse.
Once you've allowed yourself to see yourself as something to be
esteemed, you have essentially made yourself a commodity.
You have taken the center of thought out of where it belongs and placed
it into the marketing-based social construct. Which means that you've
already lost before you have started playing.
It is not acceptable to anyone with any true self-esteem to be a
commodity, whether one valued or not. Which means that it is not
acceptable to accept the concept.
A friend of mine asked a guy who was confident, athletic, musical,
etc., how he got his high self-esteem. His response: "I don't have
self-esteem. I know myself through God."
That, is a far more acceptable attitude than one of identifying one's
image with marketing orientation and becoming one of the many things
people buy and sell.
Ilya Shambat.
what you're saying is, it's a mistake to value oneself by market-driven
social norms. and you're right, it is. if you've been doing that, i hope
you stop. most of us who grow up in our market-driven world do figure this
out fairly early on. the way things may appear from the perspective of
other cultures isn't entirely the way they are.
self-esteem is about how good you feel about being you, without needing
others to affirm how valuable you are. the opinions of others, including
the opinion (supposed or otherwise) of god, may lead us to see lapses of
value in the ways we behave, and to change them, but without harming our
sense of our intrinsic value. that's how i see healthy self-esteem.
i see no purpose or anything worthwhile in self-dislike, but i know that
people who are trapped in it aren't there by choice, they can't be taken by
the hand and led out, and what they lack can't be supplied from outside
themselves. no amount of success, recognition, popularity and being
loved/needed will ever fill that hole, although the thing has an appetite
and craves these things as if they could.
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| User: "michaelashouse Michaela" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
30 Jul 2005 08:00:39 AM |
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JimSummers wrote:
self-esteem is about how good you feel about being you, without
needing
others to affirm how >valuable you are.
Yeah, that works fine when you are in your bedroom playing video
games at age 13 but as you grow older you develop more social needs
and have to give the world certain things that they demand if you
want them to like you.
OMG one doesn't try to get people to like them. One likes people
and that comes across in your communication and then they like
you in turn.
'Xcept you don't seem to want to know what "like" means in
the first place.
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| User: "michaelashouse Michaela" |
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| Title: Re: Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
30 Jul 2005 07:59:27 AM |
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cal wrote:
i see no purpose or anything worthwhile in self-dislike, but i know
that people who are trapped in it aren't there by choice,
You don't believe they had a choice to like themselves?
they can't
be taken by the hand and led out, and what they lack can't be
supplied from outside themselves. no amount of success, recognition,
popularity and being loved/needed will ever fill that hole, although
the thing has an appetite and craves these things as if they could.
Having read this paragraph perhaps I misunderstood what you said above?
- Michaela
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| User: "Taedium Vitae" |
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| Title: Re: Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
29 Jul 2005 04:11:44 PM |
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Ilya, I am not convinced you are right. As you know from Rousseau,
people's socialization brought about the obsession of comparing with
one another.I have known many people who articulate views similar to
yours and they impressed, among other things, by their _laziness_.
so what is wrong with wanting to compete? Of course, wanting to compete
implies accepting other people's standards. But I think it is a good
thing to prove that you are able to distinguish yourself, according to
their standards, before you start questionning these standards.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Self-esteem: The Trojan Horse of psychology |
30 Jul 2005 04:00:01 PM |
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Taedium Vitae wrote:
Ilya, I am not convinced you are right. As you know from Rousseau,
people's socialization brought about the obsession of comparing with
one another.I have known many people who articulate views similar to
yours and they impressed, among other things, by their _laziness_.
so what is wrong with wanting to compete? Of course, wanting to compete
implies accepting other people's standards. But I think it is a good
thing to prove that you are able to distinguish yourself, according to
their standards, before you start questionning these standards.
That's completely wrong.
Best ideas come not from competing but from outsmarting the
competition.
To use your logic one must know how to pull a rickshaw before he can
drive a car.
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