| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Nina" |
| Date: |
18 Oct 2004 07:20:03 PM |
| Object: |
things my father said to me |
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "George W. Cherry" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 07:38:28 PM |
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"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:n2n8n05b66emt0aejr0d9ddc7osi5as413@4ax.com...
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
Nina
On the other hand, Nina, your parents must have
been pretty nurturing and supportive if you earned
a Ph.D. when you were young. My parents did not
support my advanced education when I was young.
Indeed, I had to join the Army to acquire the
resources to go to college. I didn't earn a B.S
degree until I was 29 and I didn't earn an advanced
degree until I was in my forties. I think that much of
my depression stems from parents not giving a
***** about me. Alas, it's time to get over it, huh?
George
PS. My father was an *****.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 07:45:20 PM |
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On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:38:28 GMT, "George W. Cherry"
<GWCherryHatesGreenEggsAndSpam@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
On the other hand, Nina, your parents must have
been pretty nurturing and supportive if you earned
a Ph.D. when you were young. My parents did not
support my advanced education when I was young.
Indeed, I had to join the Army to acquire the
resources to go to college. I didn't earn a B.S
degree until I was 29 and I didn't earn an advanced
degree until I was in my forties. I think that much of
my depression stems from parents not giving a
***** about me. Alas, it's time to get over it, huh?
George
PS. My father was an *****.
I begin to think that all our fathers were assholes. :-)
The funny thing is... for me getting a Ph.D. was just what I was
expected to do. They didn't pay for it... I did. I'm still paying
for it. They paid for some of my undergrad career. They did, I
suppose, provide an environment in which education was valued, and
that IS a good thing.... but also an environment in which what I
produced or looked like was more important than what I was. And so I
still feel that way, some of the time anyway. I can't say that they
didn't give a ***** about me... but there was no active way of showing
it. No support. And a lot of fear.
And you're right, too, that it's time to get over it. But what it
does do is make me see how I got here. Why I made some of the choices
I made. And, I suppose, that even now, having a life that *I* choose
is worth fighting for.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 09:05:15 PM |
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"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:n2n8n05b66emt0aejr0d9ddc7osi5as413@4ax.com...
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
Ya know, this post pisses me off, I'd like to just shake your father.
Something seriously wrong must have happened with him, can you imagine not
absolutely adoring your children and wanting to be (at the very least) kind
towards them? I can't.
Hard to calculate here who has suffered the biggest loss - at least you're
conscious of it and seem to have made yourself into a substantial, thoughtful
and strong woman against some formidable odds. Congratulations.
Jean
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible
summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 09:38:07 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:05:15 -0400, "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:n2n8n05b66emt0aejr0d9ddc7osi5as413@4ax.com...
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
Ya know, this post pisses me off, I'd like to just shake your father.
Something seriously wrong must have happened with him, can you imagine not
absolutely adoring your children and wanting to be (at the very least) kind
towards them? I can't.
I can't imagine it, either. Incomprehensible.
And I think that things did happen with him... his parents adored his
younger brother and paid little attention to him; his father made him
think that his worth could be measured only by financial success...
things like that. And, of course, that was an earlier generation, one
that didn't talk about these sorts of things, and so one of the many
things that they did was carry the mistakes to the next generation.
Hard to calculate here who has suffered the biggest loss - at least you're
conscious of it and seem to have made yourself into a substantial, thoughtful
and strong woman against some formidable odds. Congratulations.
Thank you. It's a loss all around, and it's hard to say who lost the
most... he's alienated most of his children in one way or another. I
lost a father, and tried to repeat the pattern by marrying a man
equally emotionally unavailable. As did both my sisters, to different
degrees. At least I gave my child a better father, and at least I am
getting out. And at least I will not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Not all of them, anyway.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
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| User: "Filpriros" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:31:32 PM |
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Fathers eh? My father's favorite was "I have more brains in my little finger
than you have in your head" said hissing when he smelled of drink and was very
drunk.
I hated him. When he died abouttwo and half years ago I felt very little. I
never needed that man.
When I read what you wrote I remembered how much I still hate him and hold him
in contempt (he was a true coward -- and a bully).
I hope these things don't still get you -- anyway no one understands why we
write what we write in our work eh :)
Best
Rosena
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:46:30 PM |
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On 19 Oct 2004 01:31:32 GMT, (Filpriros) wrote:
Fathers eh? My father's favorite was "I have more brains in my little finger
than you have in your head" said hissing when he smelled of drink and was very
drunk.
I hated him. When he died abouttwo and half years ago I felt very little. I
never needed that man.
When I read what you wrote I remembered how much I still hate him and hold him
in contempt (he was a true coward -- and a bully).
I hope these things don't still get you -- anyway no one understands why we
write what we write in our work eh :)
Yes, you're right, no one understands it. :-)
I don't know... they sort of get to me if I dwell on them, and they
mostly don't. I've just had some really odd memories come up lately,
things that I'd sort of forgotten. And I can see very clearly
sometimes how the past shapes how I think it reasonable to be treated.
Or did, until a few years ago. A lot of my marriage is explained by
my childhood, and I'm trying to make some sense out of these things so
that I can hopefully, at last, free myself from them.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:57:46 PM |
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"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:las8n0hb69sv2s2l4frl0r79h1pfq44gju@4ax.com...
On 19 Oct 2004 01:31:32 GMT, (Filpriros) wrote:
Fathers eh? My father's favorite was "I have more brains in my little
finger
than you have in your head" said hissing when he smelled of drink and was
very
drunk.
I hated him. When he died abouttwo and half years ago I felt very little.
I
never needed that man.
When I read what you wrote I remembered how much I still hate him and hold
him
in contempt (he was a true coward -- and a bully).
I hope these things don't still get you -- anyway no one understands why
we
write what we write in our work eh :)
Yes, you're right, no one understands it. :-)
I don't know... they sort of get to me if I dwell on them, and they
mostly don't. I've just had some really odd memories come up lately,
things that I'd sort of forgotten. And I can see very clearly
sometimes how the past shapes how I think it reasonable to be treated.
Or did, until a few years ago. A lot of my marriage is explained by
my childhood, and I'm trying to make some sense out of these things so
that I can hopefully, at last, free myself from them.
That's what's been getting to me too, is obsessing in all this. I'm glad I
have work for a distraction :).
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an
invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "Jernau Gurgeh" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
19 Oct 2004 04:57:13 AM |
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Nina wrote in alt.support.depression:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
I cannot recall anything nice he ever said or did either.
In our last conversation, about fifteen years ago: "I don't want to see you
or my other children ever again."
It is better this way.
Jernau
--
The only failure in life
is the failure to try
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
19 Oct 2004 11:26:33 AM |
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On 19 Oct 2004 09:57:13 GMT, Jernau Gurgeh
<jernaugurgeh@*****.this.*****> wrote:
Nina wrote in alt.support.depression:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
I cannot recall anything nice he ever said or did either.
In our last conversation, about fifteen years ago: "I don't want to see you
or my other children ever again."
It is better this way.
I can see how that would be. Black and white. Those colors often
make a lot more sense to me than shades of gray.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "Jernau Gurgeh" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
19 Oct 2004 06:23:14 PM |
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Nina wrote in alt.support.depression:
On 19 Oct 2004 09:57:13 GMT, Jernau Gurgeh
<jernaugurgeh@*****.this.*****> wrote:
Nina wrote in alt.support.depression:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000
more if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
I cannot recall anything nice he ever said or did either.
In our last conversation, about fifteen years ago: "I don't want to
see you or my other children ever again."
It is better this way.
I can see how that would be. Black and white. Those colors often
make a lot more sense to me than shades of gray.
It is made a lot easier by the fact that dad truly is a horrible man
(everybody who knows him is of that opinion). If he were somewhat
likeable, or anything like that it might be different.
As it is there is nothing we have in common, nothing he can offer me, no
intellectual stimulation, no love, no understanding, no nothing. I still
wish I had a loving dad, but this person isn't it, and never will be.
I don't even hate him anymore; he has ceased to matter in my life.
Jernau
--
The only failure in life
is the failure to try
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:11:11 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:20:03 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
so do you still see him?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:19:37 PM |
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On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:11:11 GMT, wombn <wombnhearmeroar@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:20:03 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
so do you still see him?
Oh, yes. He adores my son. He comes to see him. But, you see, he's
both a boy and a small child, and so he's easy for my father.
In all fairness... and I don't know why I feel compelled to actually
say this... my father is a man with a huge amount of problems. When
he really abused me, and that's in the verbal sense, not any other, he
was drunk off his ***** most of the time. As he pretty much was for
years. He's had the drinking thing, and panic attacks, and social
anxiety, and he's a brilliant but deeply, deeply damaged man. And I
don't think that my mother helped much.... that's another marriage
very much like my own, people who should never have gotten married,
because what they needed was too different, and they were too damaged
to figure that out for a very long time.
So it's very hard for me to understand. I've been thinking about some
of these issues long and hard, and I think that one of the things that
screws up children the most is the mixed message. My father loved me
when I was a very small child, when I was easy. He probably still
loves me. I don't think that he understands at all how much he hurt
me, how much, on some level, he continues to hurt me.
He's 81 now. Not much chance of anything changing. In some sense I
find that heartbreaking, and in another, I just can't be bothered to
give a damn. But it makes me understand, a bit, some things about
myself.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
19 Oct 2004 12:11:24 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:19:37 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net>
wrote:
so do you still see him?
Oh, yes. He adores my son. He comes to see him. But, you see, he's
both a boy and a small child, and so he's easy for my father.
In all fairness... and I don't know why I feel compelled to actually
say this...
There's no problem with saying it. He's not all black or white. No
one is. Finding the shade of gray gives important perspective.
my father is a man with a huge amount of problems. When
he really abused me, and that's in the verbal sense, not any other, he
was drunk off his ***** most of the time. As he pretty much was for
years. He's had the drinking thing, and panic attacks, and social
anxiety, and he's a brilliant but deeply, deeply damaged man. And I
don't think that my mother helped much.... that's another marriage
very much like my own,
Yeah, I began to see that!
people who should never have gotten married,
because what they needed was too different, and they were too damaged
to figure that out for a very long time.
So it's very hard for me to understand. I've been thinking about some
of these issues long and hard, and I think that one of the things that
screws up children the most is the mixed message. My father loved me
when I was a very small child, when I was easy. He probably still
loves me. I don't think that he understands at all how much he hurt
me, how much, on some level, he continues to hurt me.
He's 81 now. Not much chance of anything changing. In some sense I
find that heartbreaking, and in another, I just can't be bothered to
give a damn. But it makes me understand, a bit, some things about
myself.
that's the other reason to find the shade of gray.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
.
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| User: "áñti-ëVêrYtHïñG" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 07:30:58 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:20:03 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
Quite a charmer your father. All the warmth and compassion of a stick.
.
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 07:34:57 PM |
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On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:30:58 +0100, áñti-ëVêrYtHïñG <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:20:03 -0400, Nina <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote:
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
Quite a charmer your father. All the warmth and compassion of a stick.
Oh, and this is the good stuff. This is the part where he was being
nice, just calling it like he saw it. To what point, one wonders, of
course...
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:16:46 PM |
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Sometimes our perceptions of what is really happening in our surroundings
may be clouded, or distorted somehow, depending on what you're going through
at the time. This is kind of common with depression.
"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:n2n8n05b66emt0aejr0d9ddc7osi5as413@4ax.com...
After I completed my Ph.D. dissertation: "I think this is pretty
boring, and I don't understand why you'd do it."
After I got my first job: "They'd probably be paying you $10,000 more
if you weren't fat."
I actually don't remember most of the things that he said to me that
were really awful. I was a lot younger then.
It's funny. I've been sitting here thinking, how old I was when I
stopped needing/wanting my parents? With my mother, it's a bit more
complex, but with my father... I don't know, but I cannot bring to
mind any nice thing that he ever said to me. Anything without a
catch.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an
invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "Filpriros" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:28:09 PM |
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Sometimes our perceptions of what is really happening in our surroundings
may be clouded, or distorted somehow
Wow -- do you know Nina?? This is the woman of insight. I doubt very much her
memory is distorted.
Rosena
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| User: "Nina" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:20:58 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:16:46 -0500, "David" <noemail@here.com> wrote:
Sometimes our perceptions of what is really happening in our surroundings
may be clouded, or distorted somehow, depending on what you're going through
at the time. This is kind of common with depression.
True. But some things are a bit hard to misinterpret, although the
motivation for it may not be what it appears.
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 08:43:58 PM |
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"Nina" <ninaNOSPAM@economika.net> wrote in message
news:ouq8n0hp29r1ehiscmmgbp2rumm1vfnsh0@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:16:46 -0500, "David" <noemail@here.com> wrote:
Sometimes our perceptions of what is really happening in our surroundings
may be clouded, or distorted somehow, depending on what you're going
through
at the time. This is kind of common with depression.
True. But some things are a bit hard to misinterpret, although the
motivation for it may not be what it appears.
Sometimes people don't quite understand how to express their true feelings,
or may act and treat others, the way they were treated when they were
growing up. It could also just be part of their personality and belief
system. My father was always very kind and compassionate, but could be a
little controling at times, especially recently, when I decided I wanted to
get a new place and a job. He was acting like I didn't have the capability
of making my own decisions, like I somehow didn't have the rights and
priveledges that everyone else has. He's back to his old self now, though
for some reason. I guess I have some anger about that. This is one of the
things I'll be working on in therapy. I guess I can understand what you're
going through :).
Nina
_____________
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an
invincible summer."
-Albert Camus
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| User: "% surfs@uniserve" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 09:03:01 PM |
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: things my father said to me |
18 Oct 2004 09:14:15 PM |
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"%" <surfs@uniserve> wrote in message
news:10n8tg1mknv18d9@corp.supernews.com...
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