| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Italy Anonymous Remailer" |
| Date: |
25 Dec 2003 01:12:55 PM |
| Object: |
What is hannukah all about? |
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
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| User: "Ruby Tuesday" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 01:23:36 PM |
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"Italy Anonymous Remailer" <nobody@See.Comments.Header> wrote in message
news:67WQVCHY37980.8423032407@anonymous.poster...
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
http://www.kolel.org/pages/holidays/Chanukah_intro.html
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| User: "humble.life" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 01:20:30 PM |
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Italy Anonymous Remailer wrote:
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
I think it may (or may not) be something to do with the belief of who Jesus
was. And some people saying "i like that story" and another group saying
"no, i like that" and then it all went "them" and "us".
--
___________________________________________
ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME THAT I GOT A SIG????????
___________________________________________
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| User: "alvintchase" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
26 Dec 2003 06:49:45 PM |
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"humble.life" <humble.life@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bsfd6o$cgl3o$6@ID-182159.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Italy Anonymous Remailer wrote:
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
I think when we were kids,hannukah was mostly about getting a
present every night for 8 nights!
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| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 01:27:41 PM |
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Hannukah is a Jewish holidy that commemorates the rededication of the
Temple in Jerusalem after its desecration by foreign forces. It was
not originally one of the bigger Jewish holidays, but its proximity to
Christmas has focused a lot more attention on it than was once the
case. Christmas traditions (cards, gifts, decorations) have spilled
over into the celebration of Hannukah.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
"humble.life" <humble.life@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bsfd6o$cgl3o$6@ID-182159.news.uni-berlin.de...
Italy Anonymous Remailer wrote:
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
I think it may (or may not) be something to do with the belief of
who Jesus
was. And some people saying "i like that story" and another group
saying
"no, i like that" and then it all went "them" and "us".
--
___________________________________________
ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME THAT I GOT A SIG????????
___________________________________________
.
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| User: "humble.life" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 02:33:43 PM |
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"Nom dePlume" <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
Hannukah is a Jewish holidy that commemorates the rededication of the
Temple in Jerusalem after its desecration by foreign forces. It was
not originally one of the bigger Jewish holidays, but its proximity to
Christmas has focused a lot more attention on it than was once the
case. Christmas traditions (cards, gifts, decorations) have spilled
over into the celebration of Hannukah.
aha.
so that's what it's about.
--
___________________________________________
ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME THAT I GOT A SIG????????
___________________________________________
.
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| User: "Harriet" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 01:30:48 PM |
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We light the 8 candles on Chanukah to represent the miracle of one day's
worth of oil used for fuel to actually last 8 days. The one remaining
candle that does not remain lit, represents the oil stash. In history, the
Jews were being persecuted and had to leave their homes. The unleavened
bread (Matzoh), is what was eaten because there was not time to wait for the
dough to rise as the population was travelling.
Chanukah is a joyous holiday rather than a high holy day as is Yom Kippur or
Rosh Hashanah.
If you go to Google and search for The Meaning of the Jewish Holidays, there
is a site (org) that describes the many Jewish holidays and what they
represent for the entire year. Many of which are in or around the harvest
as much was done around the harvest in ancient days.
Best wishes for a Joyous Holiday Season, whatever you celebrate and happy
and healthy New Year!
Harriet
"Italy Anonymous Remailer" <nobody@See.Comments.Header> wrote in message
news:67WQVCHY37980.8423032407@anonymous.poster...
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
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| User: "Ruby Tuesday" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 01:42:45 PM |
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"Harriet" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:IVGGb.239746$Ec1.8401531@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
We light the 8 candles on Chanukah to represent the miracle of one day's
worth of oil used for fuel to actually last 8 days. The one remaining
candle that does not remain lit, represents the oil stash.
I don't know about the oil stash, but yes, this is Hannukah.
In history, the
Jews were being persecuted and had to leave their homes. The unleavened
bread (Matzoh), is what was eaten because there was not time to wait for
the
dough to rise as the population was travelling.
You're talking about Passover, here.
Chanukah is a joyous holiday rather than a high holy day as is Yom Kippur
or
Rosh Hashanah.
Rosh Hashonnah can be joyous, too.
If you go to Google and search for The Meaning of the Jewish Holidays,
there
is a site (org) that describes the many Jewish holidays and what they
represent for the entire year.
You should read it.
Many of which are in or around the harvest
as much was done around the harvest in ancient days.
I don't know about that. Purim is a big holiday, celebrated around April.
Best wishes for a Joyous Holiday Season, whatever you celebrate and happy
and healthy New Year!
Same to you,
- Ruby Tuesday
Harriet
"Italy Anonymous Remailer" <nobody@See.Comments.Header> wrote in message
news:67WQVCHY37980.8423032407@anonymous.poster...
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
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| User: "Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 09:50:31 PM |
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Ruby Tuesday wrote:
"Harriet" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:IVGGb.239746$Ec1.8401531@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
We light the 8 candles on Chanukah to represent the miracle of one day's
worth of oil used for fuel to actually last 8 days. The one remaining
candle that does not remain lit, represents the oil stash.
No, the one tallest candle, the Shamash, lights the rest of the candles,
counting the days with the remaining 8 candles. A Hanukkah candle set requires
44 candles. [Do the math.]
I don't know about the oil stash, but yes, this is Hannukah.
In history, the
Jews were being persecuted and had to leave their homes. The unleavened
bread (Matzoh), is what was eaten because there was not time to wait for
the
dough to rise as the population was travelling.
You're talking about Passover, here.
Chanukah is a joyous holiday rather than a high holy day as is Yom Kippur
or
Rosh Hashanah.
Rosh Hashonnah can be joyous, too.
Certainly, but the 10 days from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur are to be times of
reflection, meditation, not unlike the 12 step program's 12th step.
If you go to Google and search for The Meaning of the Jewish Holidays,
there
is a site (org) that describes the many Jewish holidays and what they
represent for the entire year.
You should read it.
Many of which are in or around the harvest
as much was done around the harvest in ancient days.
Not necessarily. The holidays do correspond to agrarian events, such as
planting, harvesting, first fruits, etc. Obviously, in mid-winter, nobody is
harvesting anything.
I don't know about that. Purim is a big holiday, celebrated around April.
Best wishes for a Joyous Holiday Season, whatever you celebrate and happy
and healthy New Year!
Same to you,
- Ruby Tuesday
Harriet
"Italy Anonymous Remailer" <nobody@See.Comments.Header> wrote in message
news:67WQVCHY37980.8423032407@anonymous.poster...
If jesus is the reason for the season, what is hannukah about?
Would Jesus still be the reason for the season, if he wasn't born in December?
History convincingly shows that Dec. 25 was popularized as the date for
Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it was already
popular
in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun.
But is it possible that Dec. 25 could be the day of Christ's birth?
"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early Christian teachers
suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement . . . picked November 18.
Hippolytus . . .
figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday . . . An anonymous
document(,) believed to have been written in North Africa around A.D. 243,
placed Jesus's
birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, "In Search of
Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).
http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/holidays/dec25.html
In order to make Christianity palitable to the pagan masses strenuous efforts
were made to associate Christ with the Roman Sun-god, Helios. Pagan
symbols were abstracted in order to teach the Christian Gospel, and Christ was
readily associated with SOL INVICTUS -- the Invincible Sun. It was
thus inevitable that the chief pagan sun-worshipping day, 25 December, the
Birthday of the Sun, became associated with the Birth of Christ. Indeed,
the adoption of 25 December for the celebration of Christmas is perhaps the
most explicit example of Sun-worship's influence on the orthodox
Christian liturgical calendar. Many of the Christmas traditions known and
beloved by the West are, as we know, direct adoptions of idolatrous pagan
customs.
http://www.nccg.org/109Art-6April.html
--
"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses;
it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Bolton
Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
ssenate@mindless.com
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| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
26 Dec 2003 01:10:46 AM |
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"Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in
message news:3FEBB005.60A62E12@mindless.com...
Ruby Tuesday wrote:
Would Jesus still be the reason for the season, if he wasn't born in
December?
History convincingly shows that Dec. 25 was popularized as the date
for
Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it
was already
popular
in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun.
But is it possible that Dec. 25 could be the day of Christ's birth?
"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early
Christian teachers
suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement . . . picked November
18.
Hippolytus . . .
figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday . . . An anonymous
document(,) believed to have been written in North Africa around
A.D. 243,
placed Jesus's
birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, "In
Search of
Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).
Alas, no one bothered to record the actual birth date, as far as we
know. Dec. 25th is as good a time as any, it's around the solstice
(which is a special time, since the days start getting longer), and
from the Northern-hemisphere perspective, you may as well have the
biggest celebration of the year at the most miserable time, because
what else would you have to feel cheerful about?>
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
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| User: "Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
26 Dec 2003 09:15:30 PM |
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Nom dePlume wrote:
"Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in
message news:3FEBB005.60A62E12@mindless.com...
Ruby Tuesday wrote:
Would Jesus still be the reason for the season, if he wasn't born in
December?
History convincingly shows that Dec. 25 was popularized as the date
for
Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it
was already
popular
in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun.
But is it possible that Dec. 25 could be the day of Christ's birth?
"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early
Christian teachers
suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement . . . picked November
18.
Hippolytus . . .
figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday . . . An anonymous
document(,) believed to have been written in North Africa around
A.D. 243,
placed Jesus's
birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, "In
Search of
Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).
Alas, no one bothered to record the actual birth date, as far as we
know. Dec. 25th is as good a time as any, it's around the solstice
(which is a special time, since the days start getting longer), and
from the Northern-hemisphere perspective, you may as well have the
biggest celebration of the year at the most miserable time, because
what else would you have to feel cheerful about?>
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
I find it strange that an event supposed to be so important is not
accurately recorded. In the O.T., there are numerous and frequent
statements about something happening in the 8th month of the 12th year of
the reign of King Uhuhuhuh. It's easy to verify when King Uhuhuhuh came
into power, and count 12 years and 8 months later. We know that Jesus'
birth happened some time during the reign of King Herod, but that's quite
a wide span. It might be easier to pin down Hertod's decree of the
strange census, requiring everyone to travel to their birthplaces, and his
decree to kill all Jewish male babies under 2 years of age, yet Flavius
Josephus the Historian records neither of these events. Josephus mentions
that Herod did order the execution of two of his own children.
--
"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses;
it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Bolton
Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
ssenate@mindless.com
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| User: "Nom dePlume nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
26 Dec 2003 11:22:22 PM |
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"Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in
message news:3FECF945.84BFB115@mindless.com...
I find it strange that an event supposed to be so important is not
accurately recorded. In the O.T., there are numerous and frequent
statements about something happening in the 8th month of the 12th
year of
the reign of King Uhuhuhuh. It's easy to verify when King Uhuhuhuh
came
into power, and count 12 years and 8 months later. We know that
Jesus'
birth happened some time during the reign of King Herod, but that's
quite
a wide span. It might be easier to pin down Hertod's decree of the
strange census, requiring everyone to travel to their birthplaces,
and his
decree to kill all Jewish male babies under 2 years of age, yet
Flavius
Josephus the Historian records neither of these events. Josephus
mentions
that Herod did order the execution of two of his own children.
I don't find it strange at all. The problem is that none of the people
who recorded things for posterity knew that this was an event worth
recording; or, for that matter, knew about it at all.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
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| User: "Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
27 Dec 2003 12:51:34 PM |
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Nom dePlume wrote:
"Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in
message news:3FECF945.84BFB115@mindless.com...
I find it strange that an event supposed to be so important is not
accurately recorded. In the O.T., there are numerous and frequent
statements about something happening in the 8th month of the 12th
year of
the reign of King Uhuhuhuh. It's easy to verify when King Uhuhuhuh
came
into power, and count 12 years and 8 months later. We know that
Jesus'
birth happened some time during the reign of King Herod, but that's
quite
a wide span. It might be easier to pin down Hertod's decree of the
strange census, requiring everyone to travel to their birthplaces,
and his
decree to kill all Jewish male babies under 2 years of age, yet
Flavius
Josephus the Historian records neither of these events. Josephus
mentions
that Herod did order the execution of two of his own children.
I don't find it strange at all. The problem is that none of the people
who recorded things for posterity knew that this was an event worth
recording; or, for that matter, knew about it at all.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
Good point. It's always the winners of the battles that get to write the
history books. The losers of the battle, the martyrs, don't get the
chance to tell their side of the story very often. Sort of like a
"Matrix" metaphor. "We don't really know what year it is. but we think it
was some time around ... when ... "
--
"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses;
it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Bolton
Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
ssenate@mindless.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
27 Dec 2003 07:57:34 AM |
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:22:22 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
<nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
<(((*> "Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in
<(((*> message news:3FECF945.84BFB115@mindless.com...
<(((*>
<(((*> > I find it strange that an event supposed to be so important is not
<(((*> > accurately recorded. In the O.T., there are numerous and frequent
<(((*> > statements about something happening in the 8th month of the 12th
<(((*> year of
<(((*> > the reign of King Uhuhuhuh. It's easy to verify when King Uhuhuhuh
<(((*> came
<(((*> > into power, and count 12 years and 8 months later. We know that
<(((*> Jesus'
<(((*> > birth happened some time during the reign of King Herod, but that's
<(((*> quite
<(((*> > a wide span. It might be easier to pin down Hertod's decree of the
<(((*> > strange census, requiring everyone to travel to their birthplaces,
<(((*> and his
<(((*> > decree to kill all Jewish male babies under 2 years of age, yet
<(((*> Flavius
<(((*> > Josephus the Historian records neither of these events. Josephus
<(((*> mentions
<(((*> > that Herod did order the execution of two of his own children.
<(((*>
<(((*> I don't find it strange at all. The problem is that none of the people
<(((*> who recorded things for posterity knew that this was an event worth
<(((*> recording; or, for that matter, knew about it at all.
I agree that the birth of an unknown child in a stable is an
event not worth recording in historical terms.
But a census of such magnitude, affecting so many people, and the
massacre of so many young children are both events that would
normally be recorded in the historical annals of the day.
After all, as Criswell points out, the historical record of
Herod's reign does include the execution of his two children.
From the point of view of a historian, the lack of corroborating
evidence puts the biblical account into doubt. It implies that
the story of Jesus's birth was retrofitted into the history of
the preceding centuries (the same way that the Americans were
retrofitted into the story of the capture of Enigma when
Hollywood made the movie).
I believe that there is historical truth and then there is a
higher perfect reality. In terms of that reality, the story of
the child in the stable is more true than the facts of history.
I choose to believe that God became Man and lived among us. I
don't believe that it happened exactly the way the Bible says it
did.
Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada
Honours BA in History
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| User: "wombn" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
26 Dec 2003 09:27:53 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 03:15:30 GMT, Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
<ssenate@mindless.com> wrote:
King Uhuhuhuh
*giggle* Is that a real name??
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
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| User: "Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
27 Dec 2003 12:45:47 PM |
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wombn wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 03:15:30 GMT, Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
<ssenate@mindless.com> wrote:
King Uhuhuhuh
*giggle* Is that a real name??
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If laughter is the best medicine,
then kittens should be covered by our health insurance. :-)
Of course not, but there was King Ahaz, and Uzziah, Jeconiah, and a whole lot of other
similar names that sound just silly to us a few thousand years later. The Beavis &
Butthead DVD set was being advertised on Comedy Central, and it was the closest thing I
could come up with without looking up and picking a real one.
--
"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses;
it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Bolton
Criswell The Psychic Weatherman
ssenate@mindless.com
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| User: "Ruby Tuesday" |
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| Title: Re: What is hannukah all about? |
25 Dec 2003 10:03:23 PM |
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"Criswell The Psychic Weatherman" <ssenate@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:3FEBB005.60A62E12@mindless.com...
Ruby Tuesday wrote:
"Harriet" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:IVGGb.239746$Ec1.8401531@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
We light the 8 candles on Chanukah to represent the miracle of one
day's
worth of oil used for fuel to actually last 8 days. The one remaining
candle that does not remain lit, represents the oil stash.
No, the one tallest candle, the Shamash, lights the rest of the candles,
counting the days with the remaining 8 candles. A Hanukkah candle set
requires
44 candles. [Do the math.]
Yes, this is a much better explanation.
I don't know about the oil stash, but yes, this is Hannukah.
Chanukah is a joyous holiday rather than a high holy day as is Yom
Kippur
or
Rosh Hashanah.
Rosh Hashonnah can be joyous, too.
Certainly, but the 10 days from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur are to be
times of
reflection, meditation, not unlike the 12 step program's 12th step.
True again, AFAIK.
If you go to Google and search for The Meaning of the Jewish Holidays,
there
is a site (org) that describes the many Jewish holidays and what they
represent for the entire year.
You should read it.
Many of which are in or around the harvest
as much was done around the harvest in ancient days.
Not necessarily. The holidays do correspond to agrarian events, such as
planting, harvesting, first fruits, etc. Obviously, in mid-winter, nobody
is
harvesting anything.
And there's the other biggie event, Passover, which happens around April.
Thanks for the explanations.
- Ruby Tuesday
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