| Topic: |
Sociology > Depression |
| User: |
"Charles LeGrand" |
| Date: |
26 May 2005 01:52:51 PM |
| Object: |
Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
I've had a few trials running over last year, set up at family members.
New computer? Let's install Morphix on them (I had used both Gnome and
Light installs) and see how far you get. The users weren't very
technical, on the contrary even. I regularly went around to their
places, updated their boxes and sometimes switched applications
(Mozilla for Firebird/Firefox for example). They all gave it their best
shot, however at the end they prefered to have Windows back. I didn't
drag them into this, and they gave Debian a fair shot. In the end, it
just didn't work out.
- the pro's
They were thrilled at the start of the trials that they didn't have to
worry about virusses. Mostly being threats that they were only
half-aware about, it gave them a peace of mind. Spam still was an
issue, however this was just a minor annoyance that everyone deals
with.
My users were able to quickly get used to their new interface. Gnome or
XFCE, it didn't really matter. I did set up the systems that they only
had to click a single icon for the most-used programs, but they quickly
were able to navigate the menus and enjoyed trying out various other
applications (especially the Gnome games).
Email and instant messaging was a no-brainer. My users easily got used
to Gaim (although setting up new accounts was rather complicated for
them), and Evolution and Thunderbird proved to be good substitutes for
Outlook Express.
Both OpenOffice and Abiword were useful enough. Although there were
problems importing and exporting Word documents, all in all word
processing wasn't a hurdle for them.
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
Why was I surprised? Well, because I don't use these sites. Being a
geek, you traverse only the websites that work for you. You don't
depend on IE-only websites. Other people do, however. Banking, Dating,
community and chat sites, MSN. Sites that geeks like me don't depend
on, however for my users this was totally different. They were part of
their social lives, and even the slightest annoyances are still
annoying, and can become unacceptable.
Banking websites are even more critical. In this case the Rabobank's
site has been the biggest a turn-off. Thanks to a collection of weird
Javascript and ActiveX, my users were continuously annoyed at not being
able to depend on their internet banking service. It did work...
sometimes. When it comes to finances, 'sometimes' is not good enough.
I've personally contacted the Rabobank a number of times to ask them
about their support for Firefox and Opera, and ask (no, beg!) them to
adhere to web standards, however this hasn't lead anywhere.
VerizonWireless is yet another site that will not work with Linux and
firefox or konqueror. You can browse the site but you can't pay your
bills online. It lets you in but when you submit it you are bounced
back to the original screen and you don't even know if your payment has
been accepted (it hasn't).
Where there more con's? Sure, there have been issues with photo
cameras, burning CD's and even a filesystem corruption. But these were
all fixable. I came around every 3/4 weeks, fixed a few small issues,
and they were content again but only until the next problem which
didn't take long to surface.
Yet, in an age were everything is done via the web, people depend on
web services. People depend on being able to book their holiday via the
net. People depend on being able to upload their photos or read web
mail. And people depend on IE-only websites. This is reality, and
there's not much to be done about it.
For this reason, and for this reason only, is it important for Firefox
to gain marketshare. Only after webdevelopers take their Firefox- and
Opera-using visitors seriously can Linux really take over the desktop.
Everything else is fixable locally, except for the dependancy on ye ol'
Internet Explorer. For this reason, and for this reason only, does
Microsoft want to remain in control of the web browser. And for this
reason only will John Doe not accept Linux on his desktop at home.
Depressing, but true.
.
|
|
| User: "Doug Laidlaw" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
02 Jun 2005 10:03:14 PM |
|
|
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
I've had a few trials running over last year, set up at family members.
New computer? Let's install Morphix on them (I had used both Gnome and
Light installs) and see how far you get. The users weren't very
technical, on the contrary even. I regularly went around to their
places, updated their boxes and sometimes switched applications
(Mozilla for Firebird/Firefox for example). They all gave it their best
shot, however at the end they prefered to have Windows back. I didn't
drag them into this, and they gave Debian a fair shot. In the end, it
just didn't work out.
- the pro's
They were thrilled at the start of the trials that they didn't have to
worry about virusses. Mostly being threats that they were only
half-aware about, it gave them a peace of mind. Spam still was an
issue, however this was just a minor annoyance that everyone deals
with.
My users were able to quickly get used to their new interface. Gnome or
XFCE, it didn't really matter. I did set up the systems that they only
had to click a single icon for the most-used programs, but they quickly
were able to navigate the menus and enjoyed trying out various other
applications (especially the Gnome games).
Email and instant messaging was a no-brainer. My users easily got used
to Gaim (although setting up new accounts was rather complicated for
them), and Evolution and Thunderbird proved to be good substitutes for
Outlook Express.
Both OpenOffice and Abiword were useful enough. Although there were
problems importing and exporting Word documents, all in all word
processing wasn't a hurdle for them.
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
Why was I surprised? Well, because I don't use these sites. Being a
geek, you traverse only the websites that work for you. You don't
depend on IE-only websites. Other people do, however. Banking, Dating,
community and chat sites, MSN. Sites that geeks like me don't depend
on, however for my users this was totally different. They were part of
their social lives, and even the slightest annoyances are still
annoying, and can become unacceptable.
Banking websites are even more critical. In this case the Rabobank's
site has been the biggest a turn-off. Thanks to a collection of weird
Javascript and ActiveX, my users were continuously annoyed at not being
able to depend on their internet banking service. It did work...
sometimes. When it comes to finances, 'sometimes' is not good enough.
I've personally contacted the Rabobank a number of times to ask them
about their support for Firefox and Opera, and ask (no, beg!) them to
adhere to web standards, however this hasn't lead anywhere.
VerizonWireless is yet another site that will not work with Linux and
firefox or konqueror. You can browse the site but you can't pay your
bills online. It lets you in but when you submit it you are bounced
back to the original screen and you don't even know if your payment has
been accepted (it hasn't).
Where there more con's? Sure, there have been issues with photo
cameras, burning CD's and even a filesystem corruption. But these were
all fixable. I came around every 3/4 weeks, fixed a few small issues,
and they were content again but only until the next problem which
didn't take long to surface.
Yet, in an age were everything is done via the web, people depend on
web services. People depend on being able to book their holiday via the
net. People depend on being able to upload their photos or read web
mail. And people depend on IE-only websites. This is reality, and
there's not much to be done about it.
For this reason, and for this reason only, is it important for Firefox
to gain marketshare. Only after webdevelopers take their Firefox- and
Opera-using visitors seriously can Linux really take over the desktop.
Everything else is fixable locally, except for the dependancy on ye ol'
Internet Explorer. For this reason, and for this reason only, does
Microsoft want to remain in control of the web browser. And for this
reason only will John Doe not accept Linux on his desktop at home.
Depressing, but true.
How many here use Linux (besides me, using Mandrake 10.1)? I use Mozilla
7-point-something as my browser, and I don't miss the sites you mention.
Occasionally it will refuse to render a page as intended, and will show me
the code instead, Then I use Konqueror. Konqueror is useless for bank
sites. But I don't just go surfing. Apparently that is a woman thing,
like window-shopping. For Windows applications, I use Win4Lin. I still
need to boot into Win98 occasionally (and pray very hard that it won't
crash.)
But it doesn't depress anyone in the real sense.
Doug L.
--
ICQ Number 178748389. Registered Linux User No. 277548.
Don't label people. A label is a mask life wears.
- Rachel Naomi Remen.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Whiskers" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
03 Jun 2005 03:17:04 PM |
|
|
On 2005-06-03, Doug Laidlaw <laidlaws@myaccess.com.au> wrote:
Charles LeGrand wrote:
snip
How many here use Linux (besides me, using Mandrake 10.1)? I use Mozilla
7-point-something as my browser, and I don't miss the sites you mention.
Occasionally it will refuse to render a page as intended, and will show me
the code instead, Then I use Konqueror. Konqueror is useless for bank
sites. But I don't just go surfing. Apparently that is a woman thing,
like window-shopping. For Windows applications, I use Win4Lin. I still
need to boot into Win98 occasionally (and pray very hard that it won't
crash.)
But it doesn't depress anyone in the real sense.
Doug L.
The original post was cross-posted: "Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,
comp.os.linux.misc, alt.os.windows-xp, alt.support.depression" which makes
me suspect it was a 'troll'. (The cross-posting got it plonked before I
even saw it).
I don't know of any web sites I can't use from Linux. Opera, Konqueror,
and Firefox, are all perfectly capable of coping with most of the
badly-designed sites, and Lynx can usually find any useful content if there
is any. If a bank wants to use ActiveX then I'd remove all my money from
them PDQ; that's a security nightmare! Banks should be encouraging their
customers *not* to use Internet Explorer. My bank's on-line banking
service works fine with whatever browser I throw at it; there was a time
when they designed it specifically to get around IE's problems and in the
process gave all other browsers difficulty, but it didn't take them long to
corect that.
The Opera newsgroups do get mention of sites that appear not to be useable
with Opera; sometimes that turns out to be a user-end misconfiguration, and
in other instances the site operators can usually eventuallly be persuaded
to make their code 'compliant' with the 'standards'.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Dondo" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depressesme. |
26 May 2005 04:46:58 PM |
|
|
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Banking websites are even more critical. In this case the Rabobank's
site has been the biggest a turn-off. Thanks to a collection of weird
Javascript and ActiveX, my users were continuously annoyed at not being
able to depend on their internet banking service. It did work...
sometimes. When it comes to finances, 'sometimes' is not good enough.
I've personally contacted the Rabobank a number of times to ask them
about their support for Firefox and Opera, and ask (no, beg!) them to
adhere to web standards, however this hasn't lead anywhere.
VerizonWireless is yet another site that will not work with Linux and
firefox or konqueror. You can browse the site but you can't pay your
bills online. It lets you in but when you submit it you are bounced
back to the original screen and you don't even know if your payment has
been accepted (it hasn't).
Do you really want to trust your e-banking to a bank that is so computer
illiterate that they can't even develop a decent website? What does
that say about the quality of their IT staff? Or, conversely, one that
is incompetently managed that they hire consultants who do such shoddy
work? Do you want your money in such a shoddy institution?
Poor standards conformance itself is good enough reason *not* to use
e-banking or to change banks.... My bank, OTOH, has no special
whiz-bang features, and works with every OS and browser around.....
(Does anyone notice that these trolls come in waves? A few years ago it
was the "Ugly fonts". Now it's "Web site incompatibility"... Wonder
what's next....)
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 04:55:43 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 26 May 2005 14:46:58 -0700, Captain Dondo <yan@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com>
wrote:
(Does anyone notice that these trolls come in waves? A few years ago it
was the "Ugly fonts". Now it's "Web site incompatibility"... Wonder
what's next....)
Maybe they aren't trolls. If you give it a little thought, you might see
them as people telling you how to make Linux the dominant desktop OS.
Offer the people what they want, and make the transition from Windows as
painless as possible.
Just saying "Trust me, it's better... you'll just have to learn how to do
everything differently" isn't the greatest sales pitch.
--
LAZINESS, n. Unwarranted repose of manner in a person of low degree.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "Noah Roberts" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depressesme. |
29 May 2005 02:09:59 PM |
|
|
CyberDroog wrote:
Maybe they aren't trolls. If you give it a little thought, you might see
them as people telling you how to make Linux the dominant desktop OS.
Offer the people what they want, and make the transition from Windows as
painless as possible.
There seems to be endless projects trying to do just that. They are
mostly wastes like Lindows. All these projects do is take the worst
from Windows and slap it into Linux all in an effort to make one more
like the other. At that point there is no reason to switch. If I
wanted to run Windows I would use Windows. Such a waste of effort and a
good OS trying to make Linux work like Windows for the nimrods who can't
RTFM.
What really should be done is to make Linux work in no way similar to
Windows. That way stupid people don't expect it to work the same. Stop
trying to trick them into thinking it is going to be an easy or seamless
transition. It is a whole different operating system that works under
totally different principles. Revel in those differences and advertise
them instead of non-existant or forced similarities.
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
29 May 2005 03:13:59 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:09:59 -0700, Noah Roberts <nroberts@dontemailme.com>
wrote:
CyberDroog wrote:
Maybe they aren't trolls. If you give it a little thought, you might see
them as people telling you how to make Linux the dominant desktop OS.
Offer the people what they want, and make the transition from Windows as
painless as possible.
There seems to be endless projects trying to do just that. They are
mostly wastes like Lindows. All these projects do is take the worst
from Windows and slap it into Linux all in an effort to make one more
like the other. At that point there is no reason to switch. If I
wanted to run Windows I would use Windows. Such a waste of effort and a
good OS trying to make Linux work like Windows for the nimrods who can't
RTFM.
What really should be done is to make Linux work in no way similar to
Windows. That way stupid people don't expect it to work the same. Stop
trying to trick them into thinking it is going to be an easy or seamless
transition. It is a whole different operating system that works under
totally different principles. Revel in those differences and advertise
them instead of non-existant or forced similarities.
Ummm, yeah... that'll make Linux the dominant desktop OS...
This is why I have been saying that anyone who can't secure a simple
Windows system is ignorant. You have to learn how to use any OS.
--
My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the
letters get in the wrong places.
- A. A. Milne (1882-1958)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 05:54:24 PM |
|
|
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
I've had a few trials running over last year, set up at family members.
New computer? Let's install Morphix on them (I had used both Gnome and
Light installs) and see how far you get. The users weren't very
technical, on the contrary even. I regularly went around to their
places, updated their boxes and sometimes switched applications
(Mozilla for Firebird/Firefox for example). They all gave it their best
shot, however at the end they prefered to have Windows back. I didn't
drag them into this, and they gave Debian a fair shot. In the end, it
just didn't work out.
Morphix? Not SuSE, RedHat, Mandrake, or some other well-known
commercial distribution with a good solid reputation for support? I'm
not saying Morphix is necessarily a bad release, but you might have
found some critical plugins such as Adobe Acrobat Reader and Flash
Macromedia Player were already available in the commercial
distributions but not available for Morphix. Morphix isn't even
considering it's current offerings to be "production" code. It's at
revision 0.4.1
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
The most common issues are Adobe Acrobat Reader, used to read PDF files
from the browser, and Flash Macromedia Player. Both of these are
available as plug-ins for FireFox running on either Linux or Windows.
The other critical element is having a good Java implementation. For
best results use the Sun Java JVM which can be downloaded directly from
Sun. Most commercial Linux distributions include both the Sun and IBM
JVMs.
The OTHER ActiveX controls? Watch out!!! Those are the ones that tend
to create back doors, that have to be guarded against. These are the
ones that steal your credit cards information, that tap into your
Microsoft Money and Quicken applications and set up the little
transactions that steal $10-30/month from your bank account without you
noticing.
Why was I surprised? Well, because I don't use these sites. Being a
geek, you traverse only the websites that work for you. You don't
depend on IE-only websites. Other people do, however. Banking, Dating,
community and chat sites, MSN. Sites that geeks like me don't depend
on, however for my users this was totally different. They were part of
their social lives, and even the slightest annoyances are still
annoying, and can become unacceptable.
People vote with their $$$. If MSN won't let you access their site
with GAIM from Linux, then switch to Yahoo, AOL, or ICQ. Send e-mails
to family and friends telling them of your new Linux-friendly location.
If they love you, they will follow you out of the land of
Windows-Only.
Banking websites are even more critical. In this case the Rabobank's
site has been the biggest a turn-off. Thanks to a collection of weird
Javascript and ActiveX, my users were continuously annoyed at not being
able to depend on their internet banking service. It did work...
sometimes. When it comes to finances, 'sometimes' is not good enough.
I've personally contacted the Rabobank a number of times to ask them
about their support for Firefox and Opera, and ask (no, beg!) them to
adhere to web standards, however this hasn't lead anywhere.
This one is a bigger problem, but again, vote with your $$$. Wachovia
has a great web site that fully works with FireFox and Linux. There
are several other banks that have very "Linux/FireFox friendly" sites.
Again, you may need to make sure that you have a pdf viewer (many
banks provide documentation in PDF format because it can be viewed by
both Windows and Linux users.
VerizonWireless is yet another site that will not work with Linux and
firefox or konqueror. You can browse the site but you can't pay your
bills online. It lets you in but when you submit it you are bounced
back to the original screen and you don't even know if your payment has
been accepted (it hasn't).
Which Java JVM are you using? Have you enabled flash?
Verizon will work with FireFox but there are many of their pages which
are loaded with Flash pages. Again, this can be downloaded or is
available from commercial distributions.
Where there more con's? Sure, there have been issues with photo
cameras, burning CD's and even a filesystem corruption. But these were
all fixable. I came around every 3/4 weeks, fixed a few small issues,
and they were content again but only until the next problem which
didn't take long to surface.
I'm curious why you needed to show up so often? You could have
configured VNC and given them a script that would open up their
firewall to your VNC access. Then you could have supported them
remotely. In addition, you could use ssh and X11 to have direct access
to their consoles.
Again, you were the sole source of support. Had you installed Red Hat
or SuSE, and paid the support fees, they could have made telephone
calls to Red Hat, or asked questions via e-mail. Since you provide no
link, no references, no resume, I can't tell whether you are a
competent Linux administrator and application support person or not.
It would be better if you had been able to access a team - so that when
you had an issue, you could have worked with a specialist who really
knew the nuts and bolts of that application.
Yet, in an age were everything is done via the web, people depend on
web services. People depend on being able to book their holiday via the
net. People depend on being able to upload their photos or read web
mail. And people depend on IE-only websites. This is reality, and
there's not much to be done about it.
But for each IE-Only web site, there are plenty of competitor web sites
that provide the same quality of service, without demanding that you
open the back doors of your browser/PC to any old snooping virus that
wants to corrupt your computer, steal your money, or steal your
identity. Again, vote with your $$
most of these sites rely on advertizing. In fact, if you had not
installed the macromedia player, it's quite possible that about 95% of
the "warnings" you got were actually from the advertizing, not the
actual site functionality. Advertizers love Micromedia, but they
really need to make sure that they function both with and without
Flash, based on the settings of the browser.
They get charged for the "View" even if they don't actually get to
display their ad.
For this reason, and for this reason only, is it important for Firefox
to gain marketshare.
Only after webdevelopers take their Firefox- and
Opera-using visitors seriously can Linux really take over the desktop.
This is one of the reasons why Macromedia Player and Acrobat Reader
plug-ins have been offered for Linux. You probably haven't configured
these and didn't realize that you needed to do so.
Everything else is fixable locally, except for the dependancy on ye ol'
Internet Explorer.
For this reason, and for this reason only, does
Microsoft want to remain in control of the web browser.
Microsoft has admitted in federal court that they provided huge
incentives to major corporations in exchange for their willingness to
use Microsoft-Only features on their web site. The Appeals court did
rule that Microsoft was not allowed to leverage it's Windows monopoly
in this way, but there hasn't been much effort to stop Microsoft.
Ironically, the site managers and advertizers themselves have been the
ones who have opted to stick to a rather limited subset of functions
which can be implemented as either IE ActiveX controls, or as
FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape plug-ins. Java, Acrobat, and Flash are very
important, but are supported by all of these Linux-friendly browsers.
Most sites avoid using other features because corporate firewalls will
block their sites, plock the control itself, or block the certificate
authorities used to authenticate the controls (which means that
unauthorized ActiveX controls cannot be executed.
And for this
reason only will John Doe not accept Linux on his desktop at home.
Since most of the commercial distributions such as Red Hat, SuSE,
Mandrake, Linspire, and Caldera, as well as OS/X all do support the
most commonly used features without opening the entire system to
self-installing/self-executing applications (ActiveX controls) there is
much more likelihood that Linux and FireFox will be adopted very
rapidly.
By the way, you do know that you can run IE under Crossover/WINE and
other enhanced WINE libraries? Not reccomended for general practice,
but acceptable for emergency requirements.
Depressing, but true.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 06:30:26 PM |
|
|
r.e.ball stopped recompiling his linux kernel long enough to post...
Send e-mails to family and friends telling them of your new Linux-friendly location. If they love you, they will follow you out of the land of Windows-Only.
(online banking) This one is a bigger problem, but again, vote with your $$$. There are several other banks that have very "Linux/FireFox friendly" sites.
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not the
other way around?
People should be able to bank, shop and buy stocks where ever they want
on-line. The computer should accomodate the person. The person should
not have to base the decisions in their life based on what will make
their computer happy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 11:28:23 PM |
|
|
If you buy a diesel car because you've heard that they get great
milage, you don't then turn around and stick high-octane unleaded fuel
into the gas tank, if you do, bad things happen.
Converslely, if you buy a car that uses unleaded fuel it's a really bad
idea to try and fill the tank with diesel fuel.
If you use IE with ActiveX and ActiveScripting enabled, and use Outlook
with HTML rendering via IE enabled in this configuration, you will be
able to run any application on any web site, including every virus ever
produced, without even blinking.
If you use FireFox and Thunderbird, or even use IE with ActiveX and
ActiveScript disabled, you will get all kinds of nasty messages telling
you that you're not getting the full "benefit" of the web site, but the
most common viruses will bounce off and dissappear like spit on a
superhot griddle. Even when a virus loading script is recieved, there
is nothing to run the virus loader and nothing to execute the uploaded
virus.
Conversely, FireFox has an "automatic self-install" feature, don't use
this feature unless you absolutely have to and you really know and
trust the host. The best thing to do is keep this feature disabled and
only enable it when you are absolutely sure that you want the software
and can't download/install it any other way. Generally, if you can't
manually download and install it, you shouldn't download it and install
it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 05:02:03 PM |
|
|
On 26 May 2005 21:28:23 -0700, wrote:
Conversely, FireFox has an "automatic self-install" feature, don't use
this feature unless you absolutely have to and you really know and
trust the host. The best thing to do is keep this feature disabled and
only enable it when you are absolutely sure that you want the software
and can't download/install it any other way. Generally, if you can't
manually download and install it, you shouldn't download it and install
it.
You can do the very same thing with IE. Keep ActiveX and scripting
disabled by default and only enable them for sites you trust.
--
ARENA, n. In politics, an imaginary rat-pit in which the statesman
wrestles with his record.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 09:31:04 AM |
|
|
On 2005-05-26, <> wrote:
r.e.ball stopped recompiling his linux kernel long enough to post...
Send e-mails to family and friends telling them of your new Linux-friendly location. If they love you, they will follow you out of the land of Windows-Only.
(online banking) This one is a bigger problem, but again, vote with your $$$. There are several other banks that have very "Linux/FireFox friendly" sites.
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not the
other way around?
People should be able to bank, shop and buy stocks where ever they want
on-line. The computer should accomodate the person. The person should
They should also be able to do so without fear or risk of having
their identities stolen or their computers fatally infested with all manner
of malicious software.
not have to base the decisions in their life based on what will make
their computer happy.
Well then they have no business using a Microsoft OS.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 05:06:20 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:31:04 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-26, <> wrote:
People should be able to bank, shop and buy stocks where ever they want
on-line. The computer should accomodate the person. The person should
They should also be able to do so without fear or risk of having
their identities stolen or their computers fatally infested with all manner
of malicious software.
Then they'll have to learn a thing or two about running a secure system.
Big deal. It's not rocket science.
And people's identities are being stolen primarily by the information being
taken from the bank, not from the users system
--
There are indeed a great many more things in life than money; and it is
money that gives us access to most of them.
- Terry Eagleton
.
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
31 May 2005 10:38:32 PM |
|
|
On 2005-05-27, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:31:04 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-26, <> wrote:
People should be able to bank, shop and buy stocks where ever they want
on-line. The computer should accomodate the person. The person should
They should also be able to do so without fear or risk of having
their identities stolen or their computers fatally infested with all manner
of malicious software.
Then they'll have to learn a thing or two about running a secure system.
Big deal. It's not rocket science.
They will get far more "bang for the buck" using this effort to
migrate to ANY OTHER OS.
And people's identities are being stolen primarily by the information being
taken from the bank, not from the users system
You should follow your own advice.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Shmuel Seymour J. Metz" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
31 May 2005 04:53:53 PM |
|
|
begin In <1117150226.132507.124960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, on
05/26/2005
at 04:30 PM, said:
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not
the other way around?
Shouldn't a bank fit the way you want to live your life and not the
other way around?
The person should not have to base the decisions in their life based
on what will make their computer happy.
ROTF,LMAO! They don't; in fact, they can't. Whatever you may believe,
computers are not sentient. They can, however, base the decisions
their life based on what will make them happy, regardless of whether
it makes you or your banker happy.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
01 Jun 2005 12:41:42 PM |
|
|
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not
the other way around?
Shouldn't a bank fit the way you want to live your life and not the other way around?
There really are two sides to the same coin. I guess it's all a matter
of perspective.
ROTF,LMAO! They don't; in fact, they can't. Whatever you may believe, computers are not sentient.
No way... My "Microsoft Bob" operating system is so real it's almost
human.<g>
About 10-seconds after I posted this I knew this would come back to
haunt me. Using "make their computer happy" was a terrible choice of
words. Once my time machine is finished I'll go back and repost it with
"suit their computer."
.
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
02 Jun 2005 12:10:02 PM |
|
|
On 2005-06-01, <> wrote:
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not
the other way around?
Shouldn't a bank fit the way you want to live your life and not the other way around?
There really are two sides to the same coin. I guess it's all a matter
of perspective.
Yup.
Perspective #1: The bank exists to serve you.
Perspective #2: You should be grateful that the bank will let you
do business with them.
You seem to be stuck in perspective #2.
Banks generally are stuck in this mindset as well. I goes far, far,
FAR beyond whether or not you can do online banking with them.
[deletia]
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
| User: "Noah Roberts" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
02 Jun 2005 02:11:53 PM |
|
|
JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2005-06-01, <> wrote:
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not
the other way around?
Shouldn't a bank fit the way you want to live your life and not the other way around?
There really are two sides to the same coin. I guess it's all a matter
of perspective.
Yup.
Perspective #1: The bank exists to serve you.
Perspective #2: You should be grateful that the bank will let you
do business with them.
You seem to be stuck in perspective #2.
Banks generally are stuck in this mindset as well. I goes far, far,
FAR beyond whether or not you can do online banking with them.
And unfortunately you absolutely MUST do business with some bank or you
just don't get paid.
But mine is, like I said, fully compatible with my Linux system. It
doesn't take a genious to make such a website.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
03 Jun 2005 12:30:43 PM |
|
|
On 2005-06-02, Noah Roberts <nroberts@stmartin.edu> wrote:
JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2005-06-01, <> wrote:
Shouldn't a computer fit the way you want to live your life and not
the other way around?
Shouldn't a bank fit the way you want to live your life and not the other way around?
There really are two sides to the same coin. I guess it's all a matter
of perspective.
Yup.
Perspective #1: The bank exists to serve you.
Perspective #2: You should be grateful that the bank will let you
do business with them.
You seem to be stuck in perspective #2.
Banks generally are stuck in this mindset as well. I goes far, far,
FAR beyond whether or not you can do online banking with them.
And unfortunately you absolutely MUST do business with some bank or you
just don't get paid.
Not really. Banks aren't the only reputable institutions that
write or accept negotiable instruments.
But mine is, like I said, fully compatible with my Linux system. It
doesn't take a genious to make such a website.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "chrisv" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 02:25:48 PM |
|
|
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
*plonk* goes the one-shot google troll.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "7" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 02:20:49 PM |
|
|
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Windopes are a fsking menace.
They just destroyed a hard disk of mine today.
Thats what happens when installing software casuses
windope kernal to become unstable and starts mucking
around with its drivers. Windope ex peeh
decided it needed to switch off the HD and switch it on
a few time while live. The fsking thing took out the entire HD!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
.
|
|
|
| User: "* * * Y o u r . S h e p h e r d . A q u i l a . D e u s . d 2 0 0 5 x x , d 2 0 0 4 x x , d 2 0 0 3 x x , d 2 0 0 2 x x " |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
28 May 2005 11:27:58 AM |
|
|
7 wrote:
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Windopes are a fsking menace.
They just destroyed a hard disk of mine today.
Thats what happens when installing software casuses
windope kernal to become unstable and starts mucking
around with its drivers. Windope ex peeh
decided it needed to switch off the HD and switch it on
a few time while live. The fsking thing took out the entire HD!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
HAPPY!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 04:00:03 PM |
|
|
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, 7
<website_has_email@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote
on Thu, 26 May 2005 19:20:49 GMT
<lkple.40470$G8.16152@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>:
Charles LeGrand wrote:
Windopes are a fsking menace.
They just destroyed a hard disk of mine today.
Pedantic question: Did it:
[1] destroy the *hardware*?
[2] destroy the partition table by wiping out the first sector?
[3] destroy data on a partition?
[1] is possible but unlikely. [2] is much more logical.
[3] would be dumb but Windows isn't noted for its
high intelligence in FORMAT.EXE. :-) (Though maybe they've
fixed the "I read the partition size from *where*??" bug
by now.)
Thats what happens when installing software casuses
windope kernal to become unstable and starts mucking
around with its drivers. Windope ex peeh
decided it needed to switch off the HD and switch it on
a few time while live. The fsking thing took out the entire HD!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
Ew....so it *is* option [1]. My condolences.
If this is a state of the art OS one must wonder if we're
talking impressionistic painting or crayon... :-)
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 05:02:12 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:00:03 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
Pedantic question: Did it:
[1] destroy the *hardware*?
[2] destroy the partition table by wiping out the first sector?
[3] destroy data on a partition?
[1] is possible but unlikely. [2] is much more logical.
[3] would be dumb but Windows isn't noted for its
high intelligence in FORMAT.EXE. :-) (Though maybe they've
fixed the "I read the partition size from *where*??" bug
by now.)
Thats what happens when installing software casuses
windope kernal to become unstable and starts mucking
around with its drivers. Windope ex peeh
decided it needed to switch off the HD and switch it on
a few time while live. The fsking thing took out the entire HD!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
Ew....so it *is* option [1]. My condolences.
The OS destroying hardware? Jesus, these people really don't know a thing
about PC's.
--
OBSERVATORY, n. A place where astronomers conjecture away the guesses of
their predecessors.
- Ambrose Bierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
26 May 2005 05:06:34 PM |
|
|
begin virus.txt.scr CyberDroog wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:00:03 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
Pedantic question: Did it:
[1] destroy the *hardware*?
[2] destroy the partition table by wiping out the first sector?
[3] destroy data on a partition?
[1] is possible but unlikely. [2] is much more logical.
[3] would be dumb but Windows isn't noted for its
high intelligence in FORMAT.EXE. :-) (Though maybe they've
fixed the "I read the partition size from *where*??" bug
by now.)
Thats what happens when installing software casuses
windope kernal to become unstable and starts mucking
around with its drivers. Windope ex peeh
decided it needed to switch off the HD and switch it on
a few time while live. The fsking thing took out the entire HD!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
Ew....so it *is* option [1]. My condolences.
The OS destroying hardware? Jesus, these people really don't know a thing
about PC's.
What you actually failed to notice was that it was flatfish, a known windows
troll, liar and software thief who claimed it
--
Longhorn error#4711: TCPA / NGSCP VIOLATION: Microsoft optical mouse
detected penguin patterns on mousepad. Partition scan in progress
to remove offending incompatible products. Reactivate your MS software
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "tab" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 06:01:23 PM |
|
|
You should have rooted them
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 09:29:00 AM |
|
|
On 2005-05-26, Charles LeGrand <lin_o_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
[deletia]
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
You shouldn't even be running Exploder even if you're a Windows user.
It's far too much of a security problem.
[deletia]
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
27 May 2005 05:03:18 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:29:00 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-26, Charles LeGrand <lin_o_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
[deletia]
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
You shouldn't even be running Exploder even if you're a Windows user.
It's far too much of a security problem.
Then learn something about security.
--
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
31 May 2005 10:34:53 PM |
|
|
On 2005-05-27, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:29:00 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-26, Charles LeGrand <lin_o_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why having Linux on the desktop of Aunt Tille is a myth.
[deletia]
- the con's
What was the main issue haunting my users? It came from an unexpected
direction: incompatible websites. All users noted this as the main
reason why they wanted to switch back. Even though Firefox usage has
been increasing quite a lot lately, there are zillions of websites that
are still being made strictly IE-only.
You shouldn't even be running Exploder even if you're a Windows user.
It's far too much of a security problem.
Then learn something about security.
If you are going to place that burden on them you might as well
have them just learn VMS while you're at it.
An end user shouldn't have to "learn something about security" just
to run a measley network client app.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
| User: "CyberDroog" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
31 May 2005 11:14:44 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:34:53 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-27, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
Then learn something about security.
If you are going to place that burden on them you might as well
have them just learn VMS while you're at it.
An end user shouldn't have to "learn something about security" just
to run a measley network client app.
And users shouldn't have to move on to find an OS that can recognize the
equipment in their system.
--
One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual
responsibility is the difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems
on. And when you do find somebody, it's remarkable how often his picture
turns up on your driver's license.
- P.J. O'Rourke
.
|
|
|
| User: "JEDIDIAH" |
|
| Title: Re: Why the Linux Desktop Just Won't Work! and why Linux depresses me. |
01 Jun 2005 12:20:40 PM |
|
|
On 2005-06-01, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:34:53 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
On 2005-05-27, CyberDroog <CyberDroog@ClockworkOrange.com> wrote:
Then learn something about security.
If you are going to place that burden on them you might as well
have them just learn VMS while you're at it.
An end user shouldn't have to "learn something about security" just
to run a measley network client app.
And users shouldn't have to move on to find an OS that can recognize the
equipment in their system.
This is why such people buy from the likes of Dell.
They pay someone else to do that sort of work.
You should look into this "division of labor" thing sometime.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
