| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Stan de SD" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2006 05:58:39 PM |
| Object: |
A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29900-45394B02-526@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net...
Have lived here in the United States for over 500 years, the
Indians even Longer and the Whts maybe 200 years
Kindly refer to the link to a site observing the 400th anniversary of
Jamestown, VA: http://www.jamestown2007.org/. The first permanent European
settlement was by the Spanish at San Augustin, FL in 1565. However, that was
the result of seizing an attempt at French Huguenots to settle in the same
spot one year earlier. Jamestown, VA was settled by ENGLISH-speaking people
in 1607, less than 40 years later, at least TWO CENTURIES before there was
such a thing as Mexico. White european settlement in the New World is al
least twice as old as the nation of Mexico, which did NOT represent a
distinct cultural group, but merely the collection of Spanish possessions on
mainland North America. You need to get some other source of infromation
other than the ignorant La Raza types who have been filling your skull full
of mush, Loopy. :O(
.
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
20 Oct 2006 10:32:19 PM |
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Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29900-45394B02-526@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net...
Have lived here in the United States for over 500 years, the
Indians even Longer and the Whts maybe 200 years
Kindly refer to the link to a site observing the 400th anniversary of
Jamestown, VA: http://www.jamestown2007.org/. The first permanent European
settlement was by the Spanish at San Augustin, FL in 1565. However, that was
the result of seizing an attempt at French Huguenots to settle in the same
spot one year earlier. Jamestown, VA was settled by ENGLISH-speaking people
in 1607, less than 40 years later, at least TWO CENTURIES before there was
such a thing as Mexico. White european settlement in the New World is al
least twice as old as the nation of Mexico, which did NOT represent a
distinct cultural group, but merely the collection of Spanish possessions on
mainland North America. You need to get some other source of infromation
other than the ignorant La Raza types who have been filling your skull full
of mush, Loopy. :O(
Sounds like a bunch of white-guy crap, Stanley. The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
Sounds like a bunch of white-guy extreme fanaticism.
Though you get credit for a short-term history lesson
of the so-called new world which existed for thousands
of years before it became new, silly boy.
aBranson
Branson
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
21 Oct 2006 11:16:52 AM |
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"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1161401539.772269.90200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29900-45394B02-526@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net...
Have lived here in the United States for over 500 years, the
Indians even Longer and the Whts maybe 200 years
Kindly refer to the link to a site observing the 400th anniversary of
Jamestown, VA: http://www.jamestown2007.org/. The first permanent
European
settlement was by the Spanish at San Augustin, FL in 1565. However, that
was
the result of seizing an attempt at French Huguenots to settle in the
same
spot one year earlier. Jamestown, VA was settled by ENGLISH-speaking
people
in 1607, less than 40 years later, at least TWO CENTURIES before there
was
such a thing as Mexico. White european settlement in the New World is al
least twice as old as the nation of Mexico, which did NOT represent a
distinct cultural group, but merely the collection of Spanish
possessions on
mainland North America. You need to get some other source of infromation
other than the ignorant La Raza types who have been filling your skull
full
of mush, Loopy. :O(
Sounds like a bunch of white-guy crap, Stanley.
Really? Tell me what of the above is incorrect...
The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
"Megar"? You miss the point, as usual. Loopy was going on and on about how
Mexicans were here "hundreds of years" before whites? How is that possible,
given that Mexico wasn't founded until the early 19th Century?
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
21 Oct 2006 02:20:30 PM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1161401539.772269.90200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29900-45394B02-526@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net...
Have lived here in the United States for over 500 years, the
Indians even Longer and the Whts maybe 200 years
Kindly refer to the link to a site observing the 400th anniversary of
Jamestown, VA: http://www.jamestown2007.org/. The first permanent
European
settlement was by the Spanish at San Augustin, FL in 1565. However, that
was
the result of seizing an attempt at French Huguenots to settle in the
same
spot one year earlier. Jamestown, VA was settled by ENGLISH-speaking
people
in 1607, less than 40 years later,
All of which is irrelevant. If you are going to claim that there was
no Mexico, back then (which is incorrect - there has been a "Mexico"
since the founding of Mexico City by Cortez in 1521; it wasn't an
independent nation, and the nation was called "New Spain", but it was
a recognizable single entity that extended up into what is now the SW
US, and it developed a distinctive culture. Albuquerque was founded
in 1660 by people from New Spain, i.e. Mexico.
On the other hand, there was no recognizable nation or entity called
"the United States" until 1776, and by that year, everything west of
the Mississippi was claimed as part of New Spain and there were
numerous settlements there. There was no single culture (arguably
that was the case until at least after the Civil War, but there was no
significant fusing of cultures until after the French and Indian War
ended in 1763); each of the colonies had differences in government,
religion, and way of life from most of the other colonies.
White european settlement in the New World is al
least twice as old as the nation of Mexico, which did NOT represent a
distinct cultural group, but merely the collection of Spanish possessions on
mainland North America.
I suspect that New Spain had a more uniform culture than the British
possessions, if only because Spain was more authoritarian, and lacked
religious pluralism.
The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
"Megar"? You miss the point, as usual. Loopy was going on and on about how
Mexicans were here "hundreds of years" before whites? How is that possible,
given that Mexico wasn't founded until the early 19th Century?
Mexico was founded in 1521, and was under a single government. It
became independent in the early 19th century, but it was a nation
before it became independent.
The British colonies were founded each independently, and had no
single government until they became independent.
If "here" is restricted to a specific part of what is now the United
States but which was not part of the United States until the mid-19th
century, then indeed Mexicans were "here" centuries before
British-descended Europeans.
lojbab
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
21 Oct 2006 08:00:06 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1161401539.772269.90200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29900-45394B02-526@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net...
Have lived here in the United States for over 500 years, the
Indians even Longer and the Whts maybe 200 years
Kindly refer to the link to a site observing the 400th anniversary of
Jamestown, VA: http://www.jamestown2007.org/. The first permanent
European
settlement was by the Spanish at San Augustin, FL in 1565. However, that
was
the result of seizing an attempt at French Huguenots to settle in the
same
spot one year earlier. Jamestown, VA was settled by ENGLISH-speaking
people
in 1607, less than 40 years later,
All of which is irrelevant. If you are going to claim that there was
no Mexico, back then (which is incorrect - there has been a "Mexico"
since the founding of Mexico City by Cortez in 1521; it wasn't an
independent nation, and the nation was called "New Spain", but it was
a recognizable single entity that extended up into what is now the SW
US, and it developed a distinctive culture. Albuquerque was founded
in 1660 by people from New Spain, i.e. Mexico.
On the other hand, there was no recognizable nation or entity called
"the United States" until 1776, and by that year, everything west of
the Mississippi was claimed as part of New Spain and there were
numerous settlements there. There was no single culture (arguably
that was the case until at least after the Civil War, but there was no
significant fusing of cultures until after the French and Indian War
ended in 1763); each of the colonies had differences in government,
religion, and way of life from most of the other colonies.
White european settlement in the New World is al
least twice as old as the nation of Mexico, which did NOT represent a
distinct cultural group, but merely the collection of Spanish possessions on
mainland North America.
I suspect that New Spain had a more uniform culture than the British
possessions, if only because Spain was more authoritarian, and lacked
religious pluralism.
The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
"Megar"? You miss the point, as usual. Loopy was going on and on about how
Mexicans were here "hundreds of years" before whites? How is that possible,
given that Mexico wasn't founded until the early 19th Century?
Mexico was founded in 1521, and was under a single government. It
became independent in the early 19th century, but it was a nation
before it became independent.
The British colonies were founded each independently, and had no
single government until they became independent.
If "here" is restricted to a specific part of what is now the United
States but which was not part of the United States until the mid-19th
century, then indeed Mexicans were "here" centuries before
British-descended Europeans.
lojbab
"Here" in alt.california the Spanish held Alta California from 1769
(when Junipero Serra and his Padres came and established the Mission San
Diego de Alcala until 1821 when Alta California was part of the newly
independent country of Mexico. Then in 1848 California, Arizona, New
Mexico and Colorado became part of the US. Prior to Junipero Serra
coming here for 100s of years only the Kumayay (indigenous people of San
Diego county) were here. So let's track this back; 1000s of years with
no European presence, Spain with a 52 year presence, Mexico with a 27
year presence. In other words, you're completely full of ***** about
Mexicans having been here "centuries before British-descended Europeans"
You should spend less time on usenet and more in the library.
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was.
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
21 Oct 2006 10:11:53 PM |
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Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
Sounds like a bunch of white-guy crap, Stanley.
Really? Tell me what of the above is incorrect...
The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
"[Meager]"? You miss the point, as usual. Loopy was going on and on about how
Mexicans were here "hundreds of years" before whites? How is that possible,
given that Mexico wasn't founded until the early 19th Century?
No, Stan, the point wasn't missed. Before meaningful exchange may
be acheived -- you have to realize there are more views than just your
out there (if you can accept that). It's okay for reasonable people to
differ with you and to express those views.
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
Where I live -- indigenous people have been around for at least
20,000 years.
Is it correct to say you have a heart-on for people of Celtic
descent?
Branson
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
23 Oct 2006 03:46:13 PM |
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"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1161486713.241136.228750@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
Sounds like a bunch of white-guy crap, Stanley.
Really? Tell me what of the above is incorrect...
The Americas
have been around since before the pyramids kissed the sky.
Since at least the last 20,000 years. Thats a long time for
a white guy to be boasting about his megar history of 1607.
"[Meager]"? You miss the point, as usual. Loopy was going on and on
about how
Mexicans were here "hundreds of years" before whites? How is that
possible,
given that Mexico wasn't founded until the early 19th Century?
No, Stan, the point wasn't missed. Before meaningful exchange may
be acheived -- you have to realize there are more views than just your
out there (if you can accept that). It's okay for reasonable people to
differ with you and to express those views.
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
There was no political group or civilization that encompassed tribes in the
United States with Aztecs, Toltecs, Zapotecs, or any other group in the area
that is now central Mexico. The Mexican "nation" was only unified after the
overthrow of Spanish rule, which took place well after our own American
revolution. As usual, Branson the self-proclaimed "professional researcher"
is wrong.
.
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
25 Oct 2006 12:50:36 AM |
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Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
Stan de SD wrote:
"Lupe Esquibel" <PintadaKid@webtv.net> wrote in message
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
There was no political group or civilization that encompassed tribes in the
United States with Aztecs, Toltecs, Zapotecs, or any other group in the area
that is now central Mexico. The Mexican "nation" was only unified after the
overthrow of Spanish rule, which took place well after our own American
revolution. As usual, Branson the self-proclaimed "professional researcher"
is wrong.
That's about a nonsensical as saying that the American
Indians weren't a very complex nation of tribes. Tribes that
had a shared commerce, trade, political structure, religous
structure, economic structure, etcetera. Later there was
a Spanish mix, but most all races were mixed along
the way. Besides which, the Mexican 'nation' about
which you speak had roots as far north as what is now
San Francisco.
You looking at a snapshot of history late in the evolution
of the Americas. Trace the bloodline. You seem to
be in a quagmire choaking on semantics -- and applying
history of the so-called 'white man.' The not-so
charitable view is to call your spin on history, bigotry.
Branson
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
23 Oct 2006 11:26:01 PM |
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Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
There was no political group or civilization that encompassed tribes in the
United States with Aztecs, Toltecs, Zapotecs, or any other group in the area
that is now central Mexico. The Mexican "nation" was only unified after the
overthrow of Spanish rule, which took place well after our own American
revolution. As usual, Branson the self-proclaimed "professional researcher"
is wrong.
I like that... Make a statement, follow up with your wrong, block out
all but your view. The indigens have been around for thousands
of years. Follow the bloodline -- okay add a litle spanish along the
way
-- but follow the bloodline and you may.... never mind Stan, your mind
is closed.
Branson
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
24 Oct 2006 02:48:16 AM |
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"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1161663961.097340.296460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stan de SD wrote:
"Branson Hunter" <bh2322@netzero.net> wrote in message
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
There was no political group or civilization that encompassed tribes in
the
United States with Aztecs, Toltecs, Zapotecs, or any other group in the
area
that is now central Mexico. The Mexican "nation" was only unified after
the
overthrow of Spanish rule, which took place well after our own American
revolution. As usual, Branson the self-proclaimed "professional
researcher"
is wrong.
I like that... Make a statement, follow up with your wrong, block out
all but your view.
I haven't "blocked out" all but my view. I merely chose to snip the
extraneous crap and deal with the point. We're not talking race here - we're
talking about what constituted a national identity. There was no political
connection or cooperation between indigenous Mesoamerican peoples in central
Mexico and the Southwestern US any more than there was one between the
Macedonians and the Welsh (people of the same racial composition, BTW). If
anything, people of different tribes were more more likely to be warring
with each other than engaged in any form of political cooperation.
Therefore, there was no indigenous national identity that encompassed both
the people of the Valle de Mexico and so-called "Aztlan".
As for why I bring this up, part of it is in reponse to Loopy's ignorance of
basic history, and also to counter this ridiculous myth that somehow the
illegal Mexicans are reclaiming land that is somehow theirs. The facts of
the matter are as follows:
(1) The land wasn't stolen from Mexico - it was purchased.
(2) Land wasn't confiscated from individual Mexicans - property rights were
honored to the best of the Americans to figure out the Spanish/Mexican land
grant titles.
(3) There was no forcible expulsion of Mexicans, who were allowed to remain
and become US citizens.
(4) Virtually none of the illegal Mexicans coming to the US have any
personal or family ties with any Mexican citizens who may have lived in
those areas in question before they became part of the US.
If you care to deal with facts and discuss these individual points, fine.
Otherwise, I'm tired of hearing your ignorant whining. Got it?
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
24 Oct 2006 06:52:22 AM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
Stan de SD wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote in message
That said, my point -- which you sidestepped -- needs to be put
in perspective: Put another way, the argument Mexicans were here
hundeds of years before whites is actually correct -- even though
Spanish blood along the way became part of the mix. Your getting
caught up in semantics, rather than blood line. Trace the blood
line.
There was no political group or civilization that encompassed
tribes in the United States with Aztecs, Toltecs, Zapotecs, or any
other group in the area that is now central Mexico. The Mexican
"nation" was only unified after the overthrow of Spanish rule,
which took place well after our own American revolution. As usual,
Branson the self-proclaimed "professional researcher" is wrong.
I like that... Make a statement, follow up with your wrong, block
out all but your view. The indigens have been around for thousands
of years. Follow the bloodline -- okay add a litle spanish along the
way -- but follow the bloodline and you may.... never mind Stan,
your mind is closed.
Yeah, you're right, Branson; the Aztecs and Toltecs flourished
in what's now the American southwest, but the only sign of their
presence now is Meteor Crater in Arizona, the crater left from
the exhaust of the spaceship on which they all left in an
unsuccessful bid to terraform Mars.
--
Jafo
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
25 Oct 2006 01:12:02 AM |
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Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
Stan de SD wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote in message
Yeah, you're right, Branson; the Aztecs and Toltecs flourished
in what's now the American southwest, but the only sign of their
presence now is Meteor Crater in Arizona, the crater left from
the exhaust of the spaceship on which they all left in an
unsuccessful bid to terraform Mars.
Right. When you view history from your white man's
perspective.
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Branson
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
25 Oct 2006 06:36:55 AM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
--
Jafo
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
26 Oct 2006 08:54:15 PM |
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Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Jafo wrote:
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012", by John Major Jenkins
Bear & Company Publishing, copyright 1998, may
have it.
There is more to natural and human history that
Cortes and the fall of the Aztec Empire.
And all that nonsense that early natives -- before
the the Spanish blood-mix -- having not engage
in, traveled upon, frequented, traded and lacked
an organized native nation infrastructure in
the southern part of Mexico is poppycock.
After the Maya's rise to greatness, Classic Myan
civilization (250-900 c.e.) was a theocratic
aristocracy. They ventured out to interacted with the
the natural history and indigenous Nation of
Indians far to the north (SoCal).
The Myan Empire stretched across the
territory of what is now S. Mexico.
Pre-Columbian Mexico was a nation of indigen
people sharing a complex structure of life. It's
important to note they were mostly living in the
highlands outside their ancestor's cities when
the Spanish conquered the region.
Branson
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
26 Oct 2006 09:59:58 PM |
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Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Jafo wrote:
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012",
"Your search - maya 'big rock' 'landers, ca' - did not
match any documents."
http://tinyurl.com/vgj6o
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 10:15:53 AM |
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Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
[Deleted text]
Your search - maya 'big rock' 'landers, ca' - did not
match any documents." http://tinyurl.com/vgj6o
It's your search, not mine. And it's "Giant Rock."
I provided two sources. If you don't look at those, then
that's your problem.
You're appear more interested in discrediting those with
opposing views than you are in the truth. Look
at the books I cited. If copyrights prevents them
from being published on the internet, get off your
***** and read. The ball in in your court.
Branson
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 10:30:20 AM |
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Branson Hunter wrote:
Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
[Deleted text]
Your search - maya 'big rock' 'landers, ca' - did not
match any documents." http://tinyurl.com/vgj6o
It's your search, not mine. And it's "Giant Rock."
Then why did YOU write "Big Rock", Bwanson, you STUPID
*****?
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every year
to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies.
Message-ID:
<1161914055.251879.312380@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
You FUCKED UP, Bwanson. You wrote "Big Rock", now
you're telling us it's actually "Giant Rock". Will you
make up your mind, Bwanson? It shouldn't be hard -
such a small thing as your mind.
I provided two sources.
Bwanson, you didn't give *ANY* legitimate source. You
*guess* Jenkins might have said something, but you
don't know. A *source*, Bwanson, is a publication and
a page number, *NOT* some wild-***** guess.
You're appear more interested in discrediting those with
opposing views than you are in the truth.
Bwanson, I'm interested in the truth, and more often
than not, that means debunking new-age ***** like
Jenkins's "cosmogenesis".
You, Bwanson, are interestd in a combined new-age and,
as usual, anti-western mythology.
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
26 Oct 2006 09:42:29 PM |
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Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Jafo wrote:
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012", by John Major Jenkins
Bear & Company Publishing, copyright 1998, may
have it.
"Interesting as an end-of-millennium narrative, the
text follows a formulaic pattern: the author, a North
American male leaves the US to travel on a personal
quest to 'remote' and 'dangerous' spots; listens
'carefully to the wind whisper messages of a far off
time'; understands the ways of exotic Others because he
is 'unfettered by the limitations of scholardom.'
Difficult to follow, backed by dubious scholarship, it
is easy to dismiss Maya Cosmogenesis 2012. The author
takes information from Hawaiian, Hopi, and contemporary
Siberian ethnography to explain Mayan culture 2,000
years past."
http://www.amazon.com/Maya-Cosmogenesis-2012-Calendar-End-Date/dp/1879181487
Jenkins is a new-age QUACK.
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
26 Oct 2006 10:41:35 PM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
FYI, the Maya were known to migrate every
year to Big Rock near Landers, California, where they
held annually ceremonies. From there, they moved
their tribes to what is now Joshua Tree National
Park. There, they practices some strange rituals
(which you would neigher appreciate or understand).
in deep subterrian caves that were enhanced with
a flowing-river beneath the deep aquifer.
They freely roamed this region.
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012", by John Major Jenkins
Bear & Company Publishing, copyright 1998, may
have it.
*May* have it?
"Interesting as an end-of-millennium narrative, the
text follows a formulaic pattern: the author, a North
American male leaves the US to travel on a personal
quest to 'remote' and 'dangerous' spots; listens
'carefully to the wind whisper messages of a far off
time'; understands the ways of exotic Others because he
is 'unfettered by the limitations of scholardom.'
Difficult to follow, backed by dubious scholarship, it
is easy to dismiss Maya Cosmogenesis 2012. The author
takes information from Hawaiian, Hopi, and contemporary
Siberian ethnography to explain Mayan culture 2,000
years past."
http://www.amazon.com/Maya-Cosmogenesis-2012-Calendar-End-Date/dp/1879181487
Jenkins is a new-age QUACK.
Reminds me of Carlos Casteneda without the peyote.
--
Jafo
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 09:57:17 AM |
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Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
Branson wrote:
They [Maya] freely roamed this region.
Jafo asked:
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
Branson provided:
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012", by John Major Jenkins
Bear & Company Publishing, copyright 1998, may
*May* have it?
This is the reason I don't take you for real is because
you're not real. I haven't read that book in a while, but
think it's there. I give you a source and all you do is
make a mundane-glib-sarcastic remark.
I'll make it easy for you -- though I don't think you
read much. Take a look at "The Dictionary of
Global Culture," Kwame Anthoney Appiah and
Henry Louis Gagtes, Jr., Quality Paperback Book
Club, New York 1997. Publisher Alfred A. Knopt.
Reminds me of Carlos Casteneda without the peyote.
That's because you digested Leif Erikson's insolent
***** and accepted his link as evidence when, in fact,
it was only a mere amazon.com link to buy the book
in which I cited.
Branson
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 02:04:40 PM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
Reminds me of Carlos Casteneda without the peyote.
That's because you digested Leif Erikson's insolent
***** and accepted his link as evidence when, in fact,
it was only a mere amazon.com link to buy the book
in which I cited.
Wrong as always, Branson; the "mere" amazon.com link included
a number of reviews.
Or did our Professional Researcher® miss that fact?
--
Jafo
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 10:16:45 AM |
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Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
Branson wrote:
They [Maya] freely roamed this region.
Jafo asked:
Oh? I've never come across this. Got a cite for it?
Branson provided:
"Maya Comsogenesis 2012", by John Major Jenkins
Bear & Company Publishing, copyright 1998, may
*May* have it?
This is the reason I don't take you for real is because
you're not real. I haven't read that book in a while, but
think it's there. I give you a source and all you do is
make a mundane-glib-sarcastic remark.
If you don't *know* it's there, Bwanson, then you have
NO FUCKING BUSINESS giving it as a source. All you're
doing in effect is sending Mr. Jafo off on a wild goose
chase.
I'll make it easy for you -- though I don't think you
read much. Take a look at "The Dictionary of
Global Culture," Kwame Anthoney Appiah and
Henry Louis Gagtes, Jr., Quality Paperback Book
Club, New York 1997. Publisher Alfred A. Knopt.
YOU take a look at it, Bwanson, you *****, and then give
a page number for a specific reference.
Reminds me of Carlos Casteneda without the peyote.
That's because you digested Leif Erikson's insolent
***** and accepted his link as evidence when, in fact,
it was only a mere amazon.com link to buy the book
in which I cited.
No, that reviewer was *not* suggesting that anyone
should buy the book, Bwanson. That reviewer was
pointing out that Jenkins is *not* a recognized
scholar, and IN FACT, Jenkins apparently takes a great
deal of (false) pride in *NOT* being a recognized
scholar on the topic.
You have claimed now that Jenkins has a "Ph.D." degree,
Bwanson. From what university? In what field?
You filthy *****.
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 09:51:54 AM |
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Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/Maya-Cosmogenesis-2012-Calendar-End-Date/dp/187...
Jenkins is a new-age QUACK.
I don't think so...
John Major Jenkins has published over five
books in his field. He decoded the Maya's
cosmology.
He is the leading independent researcher on
ancient Mesoamerican cosmogy. He's given
presentations in many academic
circles -- such as the prestigious Institute of
Maya Studies in Miami and the Indigenous
Council of the Americas, Marida, Mexico.
Postscript
The link you provide is othing more that an
Amazon.com advertisement to sell
Jenkin's book.
Branson
John Major Jenkins Ph.D is a scholar.
-- Jim Reed, The Institute of Maya Studies
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 10:13:22 AM |
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Branson Hunter wrote:
Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote
Branson Hunter wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/Maya-Cosmogenesis-2012-Calendar-End-Date/dp/187...
Jenkins is a new-age QUACK.
I don't think so...
You're wrong, as always, Bwanson.
John Major Jenkins has published over five
books in his field.
Good for him. He has ZERO academic credentials.
NOTHING he has written has been subject to peer review.
He is not a professional in the field, Bwanson. He is
an amateur, and amateurish, oddball who "sees"
new-age-y cosmic significance in ***** like
planetary syzygy (look it up, Bwanson, you fuckwit.)
He decoded the Maya's cosmology.
No, he didn't. You don't even know what "cosmology"
means, you stupid sophomoric *****.
He is the leading independent researcher on
ancient Mesoamerican cosmogy.
Translation: the leading crackpot. He has NO
credentials in the field, Bwanson. He is a
PSEUDO-scientist.
.. He's given
presentations in many academic
circles -- such as the prestigious
According to whom, Bwanson? Ha ha ha ha ha!
Institute of Maya Studies in Miami
They don't exclude crackpots, Bwanson.
and the Indigenous
Council of the Americas, Marida, Mexico.
Goody. You can't tell me one meaningful thing about
this "council". They don't even have a web site.
Postscript
The link you provide is othing more that an
Amazon.com advertisement to sell
Jenkin's book.
The link is to a comment by a reviewer of Jenkins's
junk science book, Bwanson.
Branson
Bwanson
John Major Jenkins Ph.D is a scholar.
-- Jim Reed, The Institute of Maya Studies
Cute, Bwanson - what's your source for this *****
claim? What university conferred a Ph.D. degree on
Jenkins, Bwanson? In what field of study?
NONE of this *****, Bwanson, supports any part of
your original new-age-***** point: that the Mayans
ventured as far north as Landers, CA. You didn't even
state categorically that Jenkins said it. No, in your
usual wishy-washy pantywaist manner you said, "'Maya
Comsogenesis 2012'...may have it" when Mr. Jafo asked
you for a citation.
You're a sophomoric joke and a punctured scumbag, Bwanson.
have it.
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 02:17:06 PM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
John Major Jenkins Ph.D is a scholar.
-- Jim Reed, The Institute of Maya Studies
Cute, Bwanson - what's your source for this *****
claim? What university conferred a Ph.D. degree on
Jenkins, Bwanson? In what field of study?
Don't really know where he's gotten this alleged Ph.D., but apparently
he's taught at, uhmmm, Esalen (!) Let's see what else he seems to
have written.
Well, here's something that he co-authored with a guy named Martin
Matz: "Pyramid of Fire: The Lost Aztec Codex: Spiritual Ascent at
the End of Time".
According to
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ean=9781591430322&z=y
"In 1961 an unknown Aztec codex was revealed to Beat poet and
explorer Marty Matz by a Mazatec shaman in the mountains of
Oaxaca, Mexico. Originally intended for dramatic performance,
this codex presents a profound metaphysical teaching
describing how the end of time will bring about a visionary
ascent. At the behest of his Mazatec teacher, Matz transcribed
this pictorial codex into a literary form that would preserve
its initiatory teachings and reveal its secret meanings to a
wider audience.
Pyramid of Fire is an epic poem that provides a vehicle to
transport the initiate into the higher realms of
consciousness. It represents a barely surviving thread of
teachings that have been passed down in secret since the time
of the Spanish Conquest. Revealed are the techniques by which
man is transported to the stellar realm after death via the
solar energy within what the ancients called the "serpent of
consciousness." Line-by-line commentary by Matz and John Major
Jenkins provides insights into the perennial philosophy
contained in the codex and its relevance to our times.
John Major Jenkins has taught at Esalen and Naropa and
appeared on the Discovery Channel's Places of Mystery and
National Public Radio's Spirit and Mind. The author of Maya
Cosmogenesis 2012 and Galactic Alignment, he lives in Boulder,
Colorado. Martin Matz (1934-2001) was a poet/philosopher
involved in the 1950s Beat movement. His published works
include Time Waits and Pipe Dreams.
Synopsis
The first translation of a previously unknown Aztec codex
and its initiatory teachings for 2012.
• Discloses the potential for great spiritual awakening
offered at the end of the Aztec calendar cycle.
• Presents the only existing English-language transcription
of the Aztec codex, with line-by-line commentary.
• Contains the epic poetry and metaphysical insights of
Beat poet Marty Matz (1934-2001).
Hey Branson, are you sure this guy wasn't buds with Castaneda?
--
Jafo
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| User: "Leif Erikson" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 05:37:03 PM |
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Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Leif Erikson wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
John Major Jenkins Ph.D is a scholar.
-- Jim Reed, The Institute of Maya Studies
Cute, Bwanson - what's your source for this *****
claim? What university conferred a Ph.D. degree on
Jenkins, Bwanson? In what field of study?
Don't really know where he's gotten this alleged Ph.D., but apparently
he's taught at, uhmmm, Esalen (!) Let's see what else he seems to
have written.
Well, here's something that he co-authored with a guy named Martin
Matz: "Pyramid of Fire: The Lost Aztec Codex: Spiritual Ascent at
the End of Time".
According to
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ean=3D9781591=
430322&z=3Dy
"In 1961 an unknown Aztec codex was revealed to Beat poet and
explorer Marty Matz by a Mazatec shaman in the mountains of
Oaxaca, Mexico.
Of course it was!
Originally intended for dramatic performance,
this codex presents a profound metaphysical teaching
Uh-huh.
describing how the end of time will bring about a visionary
ascent. At the behest of his Mazatec teacher, Matz transcribed
this pictorial codex into a literary form that would preserve
its initiatory teachings and reveal its secret meanings to a
wider audience.
Right.
Pyramid of Fire is an epic poem that provides a vehicle to
transport the initiate into the higher realms of
consciousness.
This is all sounding so familiar.
It represents a barely surviving thread of
teachings that have been passed down in secret since the time
of the Spanish Conquest. Revealed are the techniques by which
man is transported to the stellar realm after death via the
solar energy within what the ancients called the "serpent of
consciousness." Line-by-line commentary by Matz and John Major
Jenkins provides insights
Heh heh heh.
Haw haw haw haw haw!
into the perennial philosophy
contained in the codex and its relevance to our times.
John Major Jenkins has taught at Esalen and Naropa and
appeared on the Discovery Channel's Places of Mystery and
National Public Radio's Spirit and Mind. The author of Maya
Cosmogenesis 2012 and Galactic Alignment, he lives in Boulder,
Colorado.
Quite right. Why is it guys like this never seem to live in Anaheim or
Fremont or Des Moines or El Segundo or tens of thousands of other towns
and cities that lack any touchy-feely new-age cachet?
Martin Matz (1934-2001) was a poet/philosopher
involved in the 1950s Beat movement. His published works
include Time Waits and Pipe Dreams.
Synopsis
The first translation of a previously unknown Aztec codex
and its initiatory teachings for 2012.
=B7 Discloses the potential for great spiritual awakening
offered at the end of the Aztec calendar cycle.
=B7 Presents the only existing English-language transcription
of the Aztec codex, with line-by-line commentary.
=B7 Contains the epic poetry and metaphysical insights of
Beat poet Marty Matz (1934-2001).
Hey Branson, are you sure this guy wasn't buds with Castaneda?
=20
--
Jafo
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 04:48:23 PM |
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Jafo wrote:
Branson Hunter wrote:
Hey Branson, are you sure this guy wasn't buds with Castaneda?
And your claim to fame... alt.california neocon emeritus.
Btw, you're right. Castaneda did way too many rooms and buttons.
Branson
What's with the low-profile on Bush, et al.?
Finally sunk in, didn't it.
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
27 Oct 2006 06:08:42 PM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote:
Hey Branson, are you sure this guy wasn't buds with Castaneda?
And your claim to fame... alt.california neocon emeritus.
Btw, you're right. Castaneda did way too many rooms and buttons.
Aw come on, Branson; you're dodging the fact that your guy's main
claim to fame is that he hung out with beat poets? Sheesh.
What's with the low-profile on Bush, et al.?
Finally sunk in, didn't it.
What low-profile? I made my views clear two weeks ago in
news:rguti29hs6526bqs3vlumgp6dlvolvf2l5@4ax.com , much to your
expressed surprise. Try to keep up, will you?
--
Jafo
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| User: "Branson Hunter" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
28 Oct 2006 04:23:22 PM |
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Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
Jafo wrote:
Branson to Jafo, wrote:L
And your claim to fame... alt.california neocon emeritus.
Aw come on, Branson; you're dodging the fact that your guy's main
claim to fame is that he hung out with beat poets? Sheesh.
That would be next to impossible since most of the old beats are
dead and Jenkins is relative young. Beside which, if you think
the breaking the Maya Calendar was any easy feat, think again.
Jenkins broke it and became famous. If you think the pestigious
Institute of Maya Studies, associated with the Museum of Science
in Miami are not credible instututions -- which have honored
Jenkins -- you are just trolling and bullshiting your way through
the maze of life.
Branson
I hate it when some bonehead doesn't read a book and makes
shallow and demeaning comments about the book and its author.
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| User: "Jafo" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
29 Oct 2006 10:24:43 AM |
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As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
That would be next to impossible since most of the old beats are
dead and Jenkins is relative young.
Martin Matz (1934-2001) died just five years ago, Brannie.
--
Jafo
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: A brief history lesson for Loopy Lupe Esquibel... |
29 Oct 2006 10:41:22 PM |
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Jafo wrote:
As viewed from alt.california, Branson Hunter wrote:
That would be next to impossible since most of the old beats are
dead and Jenkins is relative young.
Martin Matz (1934-2001) died just five years ago, Brannie.
--
Jafo
and Lawrence Ferlinghetti is alive and kicking, I don't know if he's
still writing verse. (want to bet branny doesn't even know who he is?)
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was.
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