| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"The Fool" |
| Date: |
05 Nov 2005 04:38:20 PM |
| Object: |
A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
I've been posting for years in these groups and have watched others say
that I am everything from a Nazi to a woman hater to a person wanting a
church state government and wanting to indoctinate everyone to my point
of view. Of course, I've known it wasn't true and tried, at first, to
rebuke it, but I soon discovered that the other side just couldn't
handle a "normal" person thinking like me, so they make me out to be an
extremist. So, I just let it go and said nothing.
Now, I think I will take a few mintues to tell you a bit about myself,
so you can see what kind of person I am.
I was raised in a house where no one expressed their love to each
other...ever. No one hugged each other. My father was verbally, and
after starting drinking, physically abusive. I've never been rich,
though I'm much better off now. However, I grew up in a household that
made around 12 thousand dollars annually...that's it. We had no cable,
had no vcr, drove vehicles over 10 years old, and such. My town had
less than 500 in its population.
After I grew up and got out of my situation, my parents got a divorce.
As a youth director, I had one of my kids die of a physical illness.
During college, I met and married my wife, whose father didn't approve
of me. In our first years of marriage, we had to declare bankruptcy.
I joined the military to make more money for our family, where I was
injured.
At this point, my wife and I discussed what we wanted out of life. I
discovered she wanted to seek a career. She discovered I wanted to
raise a family...the right way, not my parents way. So, we switched
places. Since then, 4 years ago, I have been a stay at home father,
while my wife has risen up on the career ladder to a high position.
Another element to this before I end. My daughter has ADHD. In the
early years of school, the faculty told me that they wanted to take her
out of her classroom, "because she is disrupting the environment and
structure." When I asked how, they said it was because she asked too
many questions. Too many questions? They wanted to put her in a
special ed room, even though she was, even in her teacher's view, very
bright and intelligent and happy.
I considered the impact of special ed on her self-image and thought
that "too many questions" shouldn't be possible in EDUCATION, so I
pulled her out to homeschool her, having had an interest in education
for a very long time.
Now, before you think this was a narrow minded option, I've never
limited my education topics for her. She has learned of other gods and
religions, other worldviews, other political views, and such. Sure,
she has known my preference, but I've given her knowledge of everything
and everyone she would meet in the world...a truely libereal education.
So, by my lifestyle, I can, by experience, say I understand poverty,
sickness, suffering, educational needs, woman empowerment, and more,
even as I am labeled a narrow minded Christian bigot. Just print this
out and keep it in mind the next time you see such labeling going on.
Ken Clifton
http://www.geocities.com/writingken/
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| User: "Mark T" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 06:43:48 PM |
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"The Fool - Tony Clifton's brother" wroteth:
Visit Tony Clifton http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Picture/2931/
I've been posting for years in these groups and have watched others say
that I am everything from a Nazi to a woman hater to a person wanting a
church state government and wanting to indoctinate everyone to my point
of view.
You forgot "being an idiot".
"too many questions" shouldn't be possible in EDUCATION ..... homeschool
her
Mmm ... Trew Kristyun Skooling ...forget any type of real education!
you think this was a narrow minded option
Yep!
I've given her knowledge of everything
That would be VERY narrow!
--
Fundamentalism has done for Christianity what McDonalds has done for gourmet
food.
Mmmm ... going back to visit Tony Clifton instead .....
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| User: "Richard Dawkins" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 07:21:14 PM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131230300.197006.15360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've been posting for years in these groups and have watched others say
that I am everything from a Nazi to a woman hater to a person wanting a
church state government and wanting to indoctinate everyone to my point
of view.
<snip>
What you have described is a typical shallow ploy that the God-Haters use
when they cannot defend their tenuous position.
They want a world only they can live in and accuse others of the same things
they are guilty of.
Don't buy into it.
Now watch the God-Hating little buggers follow up to this post with some of
the most unintelligent trash talk you can imagine..
Gives you some idea of the stupidity they radiate.
Of course the reason they are reading this is because they hate God and do
believe in his existence.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
06 Nov 2005 12:54:31 AM |
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 19:21, anonymous porker wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131230300.197006.15360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've been posting for years in these groups and have watched others say
that I am everything from a Nazi to a woman hater to a person wanting a
church state government and wanting to indoctinate everyone to my point
of view.
<snip>
What you have described is a typical shallow ploy that the God-Haters use
when they cannot defend their tenuous position.
You got /that/ right!
They want a world only they can live in and accuse others of the same things
they are guilty of.
And most of them aren't even fun.
Don't buy into it.
With the "True Religion"®, there's no collection plate
and no harping on money or quest for power. Of
course, when someone wants money--a collection
plate, for example--we know we've been set-up.
Now watch the God-Hating
You are referring generally, I hope. You have your god and I have
mine.
little buggers
How strange. "Buggers" generally refer to performers of anal
intercourse; now, why would someone bring that up? [Is this a
"magnificent obsession"?]
follow up to this post with some of
the most unintelligent trash talk you can imagine..
Oh, goodness gracious me; so many are but few realize that religion
is a BYOB.
Gives you some idea of the stupidity they radiate.
That's right!! Let's badmouth people who don't agree with us. That
"fool" thing that Jesus was talking about doesn't really count cuz
He was joking (obviously).
Of course the reason they are reading this is because they hate God . . .
How strange - what kind of a god do you have?
and do
believe in his existence.
"his"?
What is this "his" business?
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Now my own suspicion is that the
Universe is not only queerer than
we suppose, but queerer than
we can suppose.
- J. B. S. Haldane
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
06 Nov 2005 04:11:12 AM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Now, I think I will take a few mintues to tell you a bit about myself,
so you can see what kind of person I am.
Self-absorbed.
At this point, my wife and I discussed what we wanted out of life. I
discovered she wanted to seek a career. She discovered I wanted to
raise a family...the right way, not my parents way. So, we switched
places. Since then, 4 years ago, I have been a stay at home father,
while my wife has risen up on the career ladder to a high position.
Another element to this before I end. My daughter has ADHD. In the
early years of school, the faculty told me that they wanted to take her
out of her classroom, "because she is disrupting the environment and
structure." When I asked how, they said it was because she asked too
many questions. Too many questions? They wanted to put her in a
special ed room, even though she was, even in her teacher's view, very
bright and intelligent and happy.
I considered the impact of special ed on her self-image and thought
that "too many questions" shouldn't be possible in EDUCATION, so I
pulled her out to homeschool her, having had an interest in education
for a very long time.
I too stayed at home to raise the kids while my wife chose to follow
her career, and my son has ADHD, though I had already chosen to be
at-home when this was determined. And I chose NOT to home school but
to support the school in educating my son, and to help him deal with
the label "special education" (you think that the label of "special
education" is damaging to her self-image, and ignore the fact that
"home educated" might lead to its own damage to her self-image). He
is a senior in high school, the junior leader of his Sea Scout ship,
and plans to go to one of the top Culinary Arts schools in the
country.
Now, before you think this was a narrow minded option, I've never
limited my education topics for her. She has learned of other gods and
religions, other worldviews, other political views, and such. Sure,
she has known my preference, but I've given her knowledge of everything
and everyone she would meet in the world...a truely libereal education.
You are incapable of giving her knowledge of everything in the world,
because you constantly display ignorance about everything in the
world. Allowing your daughter to "ask too many questions" and then
responding to those questions by giving her the WRONG answers is not a
superior form of education to asking her to take her turn amongst
those in the class in asking questions and expecting answers.
So, by my lifestyle, I can, by experience, say I understand poverty,
sickness, suffering, educational needs, woman empowerment, and more,
You may have experienced them, but that does not mean that you
understand them.
even as I am labeled a narrow minded Christian bigot.
Calling a spade a spade.
lojbab
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 04:53:45 PM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
So, by my lifestyle, I can, by experience, say I understand poverty,
sickness, suffering, educational needs, woman empowerment, and more,
even as I am labeled a narrow minded Christian bigot. Just print this
out and keep it in mind the next time you see such labeling going on.
You missed the point. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot(*) is
not your wife, or your daughter, or her school, or her teachers, or her
condition. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot is your
conviction that you are righteous, that you speak for God, and that you can
judge on His behalf.
--
* And for good measure, let's bear in mind that 'Christian' is NOT
synonymous with 'bigot'. You're a minority amongst your own faith group.
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| User: "Mark T" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 06:44:49 PM |
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"Midjis" wrote:
You missed the point. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot(*)
is
not your wife, or your daughter, or her school, or her teachers, or her
condition. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot is your
conviction that you are righteous, that you speak for God, and that you
can
judge on His behalf.
--
* And for good measure, let's bear in mind that 'Christian' is NOT
synonymous with 'bigot'. You're a minority amongst your own faith group.
Amen!
#################################################
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 11:28:13 PM |
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:44:49 -0600, Mark T wrote:
Amen!
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################
If you haven't already, you might want to
read Eric Hoffer's _The True Believer_.
Gray Shockley
-----------------
It'll make ya wanna cry.
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| User: "Mark T" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
06 Nov 2005 05:06:24 PM |
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"Gray Shockley" wrote:
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that
those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians
at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################
If you haven't already, you might want to
read Eric Hoffer's _The True Believer_.
A worthy book!!!!
From http://www.erichoffer.net/
Eric Hoffer was a self-educated longshoreman who came to fame in the 1950's
with the publication of his first book, "The True Believer." A caustic
analysis of the nature of mass movements and those who are driven to join
them, "The True Believer" did what no other book of the mid-twentieth
century could: it helped expose the hidden causes of the tumultuous events
that nearly destroyed our world at that time. Hoffer said of the 1930's, "It
colors my thinking and shapes my attitude toward events. I can never forget
that one of the most gifted, best educated nations in the world, of its own
free will, surrendered its fate into the hands of a maniac." "The True
Believer," though, is not solely concerned with the rise of Nazi Germany,
but with the origination of all mass movements, creative or destructive. And
more importantly, it is concerned with the main ingredient of such
movements, the frustrated individual. The book probes into the psychology of
the frustrated and dissatisfied, those who would eagerly sacrifice
themselves for any cause that might give their meaningless lives some sense
of significance. The alienated seek to lose themselves in these movements by
adopting those fanatical attitudes that are, according to Hoffer,
fundamentally "a flight from the self."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trew Kristyuns might like to read Peter Bowler's "The True Believers:
Oddities and Curiosities of Religious Faith" ( Methuen: 1986)
The Tascodrugites were a Phyrygian Montanist sect, who were said to put
their forefingers up their nose when praying in order to appear dejected and
pious. p.100
[Mmmm ... probably something Griz would try out!]
The Glassites, otherwise known as the Sandemanians, believed that the church
should be governed by apostolic doctrine. They abstained fronm eating blood
and strangled animals, practiosed the ceremonial washing of feet, and
believed that to eat and drink with an excommunicated person was a grievous
sin. The great scientist Michael Farady was a sandenmanian elder. p. 97
Here are a few examples of crimes for which people were burnt at the stake
by the Spanish Inquisition:
- In about 1530 - Alonca de Vargas, for having smiled at a mention of the
Virgin Mary.
....
- Goncales Ruis, for saying to an opponent in a card game: 'You couldn't win
this game even if you had God as a partner.'
- In 1635 - Pedro Ginesta of Barcelona, at the age of eighty, for having
forgotten what day of the week it was and eaten bacon on a Friday.
....
The reason why the Inquisition burnt its victims (or, as was sometimes the
case, strangled them - or both) was to ensure that there would be no
shedding of blood. The Church wished to observe the principle 'Ecclesia non
novit sanguinem' (the church is untainted with blood) pp. 157-158
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| User: "The Fool" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 05:07:19 PM |
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Midjis wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
So, by my lifestyle, I can, by experience, say I understand poverty,
sickness, suffering, educational needs, woman empowerment, and more,
even as I am labeled a narrow minded Christian bigot. Just print this
out and keep it in mind the next time you see such labeling going on.
You missed the point. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot(*) is
not your wife, or your daughter, or her school, or her teachers, or her
condition. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot is your
conviction that you are righteous, that you speak for God, and that you can
judge on His behalf.
Exactly my point. Earlier this very day I told Midjis that I do not
judge anyone. My name is The Fool, indicating I don't expect anyone to
accept me as an authority, and I told him/her my only claim to
righteousness is Jesus' blood payment for my sins, of which I have
many. Yet, Midjis doesn't listen to the truth. Why? It's easier for
him/her to falsely label me than deal with the truth in my posts. It's
not new. In fact, lying about your adversary to ignore their truth
goes back to Eden.
Ken Clifton
http://www.geocities.com/writingken/
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
06 Nov 2005 04:13:13 AM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Exactly my point. Earlier this very day I told Midjis that I do not
judge anyone. My name is The Fool, indicating I don't expect anyone to
accept me as an authority,
You expect your daughter to accept you as an authority, and attempt to
give her a "liberal" ignorancification in lieu of the liberal
education she might have gotten from a school
lojbab
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| User: "Mark T" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 06:48:25 PM |
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"The Fool" wrote:
My name is The Fool, indicating I don't expect anyone to
accept me as an authority
That's good! No-one would!!! ;-)
my only claim to righteousness is Jesus' blood
Ooooh! Icky!!!!
Why are you so interested in blood, gore and guts?
Is it some type of pagan fetish????
back to Eden.
Back to visiting Ken Clifton's brother, Tony Clifton ... much more
interesting! "I did it MY way!"
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Picture/2931/
http://andykaufman.jvlnet.com/tonyc.htm
http://www.subcin.com/tony.html
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
05 Nov 2005 07:44:31 PM |
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The Fool wrote:
Midjis wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
So, by my lifestyle, I can, by experience, say I understand poverty,
sickness, suffering, educational needs, woman empowerment, and more,
even as I am labeled a narrow minded Christian bigot. Just print this
out and keep it in mind the next time you see such labeling going on.
You missed the point. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot(*) is
not your wife, or your daughter, or her school, or her teachers, or her
condition. What makes you a narrow-minded Christian bigot is your
conviction that you are righteous, that you speak for God, and that you can
judge on His behalf.
Exactly my point. Earlier this very day I told Midjis that I do not
judge anyone. My name is The Fool, indicating I don't expect anyone to
accept me as an authority, and I told him/her my only claim to
righteousness is Jesus' blood payment for my sins, of which I have
many. Yet, Midjis doesn't listen to the truth. Why?
Answer: Because of what you write.
Your life seems admirable. Your posts are not. That's what people are
responding to.
Just as an example: You recently said that "as we KNOW from science,"
acquired traits are inherited. (That was the gist.) I pointed out that
this was certainly untrue, and that you ought to correct it before your
untruth propagated. You vanished from the thread and started another
one. When I challenged you on this, you said, "Maybe I just like making
your head spin. haha."
Why should anyone listen to "the truth," as you call your posts? You do
not discuss things with honesty and integrity. You never take
responsibility for any errors you make. You tell people that God
enriches the faithful with material goods; that, when a child is
harmed, it's because its parents did not have enough faith to keep away
Satan's influence; that an actor ought to be ashamed because his
political views do not match what YOU think the author on whose books
the actor's popular role was based would have thought.
(Because, as we all know, if a writer includes a just war in his
medieval fantasy novel, it follow inevitably that he would approve of
the war in Iraq.)
And then you say you're not judging anybody.
I think the most disturbing thing you do is to say, of people who
disagree with YOU, that "they disagree with God," or "they don't
believe in God," or so on. (You do this frequently.You've done it to
me.) You seem to believe that your interpretation of God and the Bible
is paramount, and anyone who disagrees has "a problem with God," rather
than a problem with the things you say. Sometimes it's almost as if you
can't see the difference between God's opinions and your opinions.
I wish you and your family the best. I don't think home schooling your
daughter is a selfish or narrow-minded decision. I also, as it happens,
do not believe that the reason she has ADHD is because you and your
wife did not have sufficient faith to protect her from Satan.
And I certainly hope that, when you're teaching her, and she asks you a
difficult question or points out an error, you don't say to her, "Maybe
I just like watching your head spin. haha." If you did, I expect she
would cease to believe you or respect you. And that is what's happened
with regard to your posts here.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: A Little About Me - revealing prejudice in others |
06 Nov 2005 04:01:02 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1131230300.197006.15360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I considered the impact of special ed on her self-image and
thought that "too many questions" shouldn't be possible in
EDUCATION, so I pulled her out to homeschool her, having
had an interest in education for a very long time.
Now, before you think this was a narrow minded option, I've
never limited my education topics for her. She has learned
of other gods and religions, other worldviews, other
political views, and such. Sure, she has known my
preference, but I've given her knowledge of everything and
everyone she would meet in the world...a truely libereal
education.
But what was her source for these? You?
A liberal Jewish acquaintance told me that her religious
instruction included the same thing, except that they took
her to learn alternative points of view from the horses'
mouths themselves, because they were afraid that even
unintentionally they might bias the message of other beliefs
in translation, so to speak.
And I say kudos to that.
Secret Squirrel
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