| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"dpr" |
| Date: |
23 Dec 2003 12:14:45 PM |
| Object: |
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106438,00.html
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
The alternative energy movement is ruffling the feathers of animal rights
activists.
Wind turbines, lauded for being an environmentally friendly energy source,
are killing thousands of birds that fly into their propellers in the
Altamont Pass (search) just east of Oakland, Calif., where more than 5,000
turbines have helped power the Bay Area for 20 years.
Jeff Miller, of the Center for Biological Diversity (search), said the
latest research indicates that one to two thousand or more birds are killed
each year in the area. Included in the yearly death toll are approximately
60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, and 270 burrowing owls.
Two environmental groups are trying to stop the renewal of the windmills'
permits to prevent more birds from dying in their blades.
The Alameda County (search) zoning board renewed a batch of permits in
November angering green activists who demanded an environmental impact
report and mandatory concessions from the energy industry to make the mills
more bird-friendly.
"The public is owed an open environmental review of the issue," said Miller.
"If the board of supervisors doesn't see it our way, I'm sure we'll look
very carefully at some kind of legal action."
But the board felt the confrontation with the utilities was the wrong way to
go.
"What we have is a conflict developing over the best environmental approach
and that conflict is moving into a much larger scaled war than is
necessary," said Larry Gosselin, of the zoning board. "We need a progressive
study."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
|
|
| User: "Robert Miller" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
23 Dec 2003 02:25:05 PM |
|
|
Great!!! That means we should go back to nuclear power and or
Coal! and have nuclear waste or smog and mercury in the water.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Monday, February 10, 2003
Albright Can't Explain Why Clinton Failed to Disarm Saddam
Faced with President Clinton's and her own almost frantic
warnings in 1998 that Saddam Hussein had to be dealt with
posthaste, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
was unable to explain why Clinton failed to act.
Nor was she able to explain why President Clinton passed up
a golden opportunity to capture Osama bin Laden when it was
offered to him.
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in message
news:vuh101mtpoi8e0@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106438,00.html
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
The alternative energy movement is ruffling the feathers of animal rights
activists.
Wind turbines, lauded for being an environmentally friendly energy source,
are killing thousands of birds that fly into their propellers in the
Altamont Pass (search) just east of Oakland, Calif., where more than 5,000
turbines have helped power the Bay Area for 20 years.
Jeff Miller, of the Center for Biological Diversity (search), said the
latest research indicates that one to two thousand or more birds are
killed
each year in the area. Included in the yearly death toll are approximately
60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, and 270 burrowing owls.
Two environmental groups are trying to stop the renewal of the windmills'
permits to prevent more birds from dying in their blades.
The Alameda County (search) zoning board renewed a batch of permits in
November angering green activists who demanded an environmental impact
report and mandatory concessions from the energy industry to make the
mills
more bird-friendly.
"The public is owed an open environmental review of the issue," said
Miller.
"If the board of supervisors doesn't see it our way, I'm sure we'll look
very carefully at some kind of legal action."
But the board felt the confrontation with the utilities was the wrong way
to
go.
"What we have is a conflict developing over the best environmental
approach
and that conflict is moving into a much larger scaled war than is
necessary," said Larry Gosselin, of the zoning board. "We need a
progressive
study."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the
state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thom" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
23 Dec 2003 09:19:34 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:25:05 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
Great!!! That means we should go back to nuclear power and or
Coal! and have nuclear waste or smog and mercury in the water.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Monday, February 10, 2003
Albright Can't Explain Why Clinton Failed to Disarm Saddam
could it be that he didn't think it was worth the billions or lives???
Could it be that he isn't a lieing BUSH Family member who claimed to
be a compassionate conservitive who turns around and kills and invades
and spends the tax payers' money like a drunken sailor???
Faced with President Clinton's and her own almost frantic
warnings in 1998 that Saddam Hussein had to be dealt with
posthaste, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
was unable to explain why Clinton failed to act.
Nor was she able to explain why President Clinton passed up
a golden opportunity to capture Osama bin Laden when it was
offered to him.
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
THOM
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in message
news:vuh101mtpoi8e0@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106438,00.html
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
The alternative energy movement is ruffling the feathers of animal rights
activists.
Wind turbines, lauded for being an environmentally friendly energy source,
are killing thousands of birds that fly into their propellers in the
Altamont Pass (search) just east of Oakland, Calif., where more than 5,000
turbines have helped power the Bay Area for 20 years.
Jeff Miller, of the Center for Biological Diversity (search), said the
latest research indicates that one to two thousand or more birds are
killed
each year in the area. Included in the yearly death toll are approximately
60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, and 270 burrowing owls.
Two environmental groups are trying to stop the renewal of the windmills'
permits to prevent more birds from dying in their blades.
The Alameda County (search) zoning board renewed a batch of permits in
November angering green activists who demanded an environmental impact
report and mandatory concessions from the energy industry to make the
mills
more bird-friendly.
"The public is owed an open environmental review of the issue," said
Miller.
"If the board of supervisors doesn't see it our way, I'm sure we'll look
very carefully at some kind of legal action."
But the board felt the confrontation with the utilities was the wrong way
to
go.
"What we have is a conflict developing over the best environmental
approach
and that conflict is moving into a much larger scaled war than is
necessary," said Larry Gosselin, of the zoning board. "We need a
progressive
study."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the
state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robert Miller" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
23 Dec 2003 09:21:42 PM |
|
|
"Thom" <thomandpam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe90526.15490717@news.melbpc.org.au...
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:25:05 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
Great!!! That means we should go back to nuclear power and or
Coal! and have nuclear waste or smog and mercury in the water.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Monday, February 10, 2003
Albright Can't Explain Why Clinton Failed to Disarm Saddam
could it be that he didn't think it was worth the billions or lives???
Could it be that he isn't a lieing BUSH Family member who claimed to
be a compassionate conservitive who turns around and kills and invades
and spends the tax payers' money like a drunken sailor???
Perhaps he was a coward, we know he loathed the military. He did not
support his troops in Somolia.
Faced with President Clinton's and her own almost frantic
warnings in 1998 that Saddam Hussein had to be dealt with
posthaste, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
was unable to explain why Clinton failed to act.
Nor was she able to explain why President Clinton passed up
a golden opportunity to capture Osama bin Laden when it was
offered to him.
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
You like kool-aid? ;-) wink! wink!
THOM
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in message
news:vuh101mtpoi8e0@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106438,00.html
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
The alternative energy movement is ruffling the feathers of animal
rights
activists.
Wind turbines, lauded for being an environmentally friendly energy
source,
are killing thousands of birds that fly into their propellers in the
Altamont Pass (search) just east of Oakland, Calif., where more than
5,000
turbines have helped power the Bay Area for 20 years.
Jeff Miller, of the Center for Biological Diversity (search), said the
latest research indicates that one to two thousand or more birds are
killed
each year in the area. Included in the yearly death toll are
approximately
60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, and 270 burrowing owls.
Two environmental groups are trying to stop the renewal of the
windmills'
permits to prevent more birds from dying in their blades.
The Alameda County (search) zoning board renewed a batch of permits in
November angering green activists who demanded an environmental impact
report and mandatory concessions from the energy industry to make the
mills
more bird-friendly.
"The public is owed an open environmental review of the issue," said
Miller.
"If the board of supervisors doesn't see it our way, I'm sure we'll
look
very carefully at some kind of legal action."
But the board felt the confrontation with the utilities was the wrong
way
to
go.
"What we have is a conflict developing over the best environmental
approach
and that conflict is moving into a much larger scaled war than is
necessary," said Larry Gosselin, of the zoning board. "We need a
progressive
study."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the
state at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
Stalin and Hitler were atheists and the logical conclusion to that faith.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Bringing America back to value $1 at a time!
.
|
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| User: "Thom" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
25 Dec 2003 05:03:45 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:21:42 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Thom" <thomandpam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe90526.15490717@news.melbpc.org.au...
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:25:05 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
Great!!! That means we should go back to nuclear power and or
Coal! and have nuclear waste or smog and mercury in the water.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Monday, February 10, 2003
Albright Can't Explain Why Clinton Failed to Disarm Saddam
could it be that he didn't think it was worth the billions or lives???
Could it be that he isn't a lieing BUSH Family member who claimed to
be a compassionate conservitive who turns around and kills and invades
and spends the tax payers' money like a drunken sailor???
Perhaps he was a coward, we know he loathed the military. He did not
support his troops in Somolia.
are you talking about Bush or Clinton? Both avoided meaningfull
serveice in the military and Bush is trying to screw the Veterans
right now which shows he hates real men who served honorablly to his
embarrassment.
THOM
Faced with President Clinton's and her own almost frantic
warnings in 1998 that Saddam Hussein had to be dealt with
posthaste, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
was unable to explain why Clinton failed to act.
Nor was she able to explain why President Clinton passed up
a golden opportunity to capture Osama bin Laden when it was
offered to him.
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
You like kool-aid? ;-) wink! wink!
THOM
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in message
news:vuh101mtpoi8e0@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106438,00.html
Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
The alternative energy movement is ruffling the feathers of animal
rights
activists.
Wind turbines, lauded for being an environmentally friendly energy
source,
are killing thousands of birds that fly into their propellers in the
Altamont Pass (search) just east of Oakland, Calif., where more than
5,000
turbines have helped power the Bay Area for 20 years.
Jeff Miller, of the Center for Biological Diversity (search), said the
latest research indicates that one to two thousand or more birds are
killed
each year in the area. Included in the yearly death toll are
approximately
60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, and 270 burrowing owls.
Two environmental groups are trying to stop the renewal of the
windmills'
permits to prevent more birds from dying in their blades.
The Alameda County (search) zoning board renewed a batch of permits in
November angering green activists who demanded an environmental impact
report and mandatory concessions from the energy industry to make the
mills
more bird-friendly.
"The public is owed an open environmental review of the issue," said
Miller.
"If the board of supervisors doesn't see it our way, I'm sure we'll
look
very carefully at some kind of legal action."
But the board felt the confrontation with the utilities was the wrong
way
to
go.
"What we have is a conflict developing over the best environmental
approach
and that conflict is moving into a much larger scaled war than is
necessary," said Larry Gosselin, of the zoning board. "We need a
progressive
study."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the
state at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
Stalin and Hitler were atheists and the logical conclusion to that faith.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Bringing America back to value $1 at a time!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robert Miller" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 07:51:55 AM |
|
|
"Thom" <thomandpam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe9a9b9.21357319@news.melbpc.org.au...
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:21:42 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Thom" <thomandpam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe90526.15490717@news.melbpc.org.au...
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:25:05 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
Great!!! That means we should go back to nuclear power and or
Coal! and have nuclear waste or smog and mercury in the water.
Robert Miller
member of www.norfed.org
Monday, February 10, 2003
Albright Can't Explain Why Clinton Failed to Disarm Saddam
could it be that he didn't think it was worth the billions or lives???
Could it be that he isn't a lieing BUSH Family member who claimed to
be a compassionate conservitive who turns around and kills and invades
and spends the tax payers' money like a drunken sailor???
Perhaps he was a coward, we know he loathed the military. He did not
support his troops in Somolia.
are you talking about Bush or Clinton? Both avoided meaningfull
serveice in the military and Bush is trying to screw the Veterans
right now which shows he hates real men who served honorablly to his
embarrassment.
So why do those in the military have a much higher regaurd for either
Bush than for Clinton? Try to project your feeling about the Military
onto President Bush is futile!
THOM
Faced with President Clinton's and her own almost frantic
warnings in 1998 that Saddam Hussein had to be dealt with
posthaste, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
was unable to explain why Clinton failed to act.
Nor was she able to explain why President Clinton passed up
a golden opportunity to capture Osama bin Laden when it was
offered to him.
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
You like kool-aid? ;-) wink! wink!
Warrants are not hard to get when you are suspected of terrorism against
the United States. Just go to the Justice dept. and lay out your evidence
and ask for one. It's not rocket science.
Robert Miller
.
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| User: "Chris the Liberal" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 02:13:43 PM |
|
|
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
are you talking about Bush or Clinton? Both avoided meaningfull
serveice in the military and Bush is trying to screw the Veterans
right now which shows he hates real men who served honorablly to his
embarrassment.
So why do those in the military have a much higher regaurd for either
Bush than for Clinton? Try to project your feeling about the Military
onto President Bush is futile!
Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican, regardless
of who is president. Didn't you ever guess why the Bush-ites were
so determined to count all the military votes in Florida, even
those that were cast illegally with postmarks the day after the
election???
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
Warrants are not hard to get when you are suspected of terrorism against
the United States. Just go to the Justice dept. and lay out your evidence
and ask for one. It's not rocket science.
It's not rocket science, but it is international law. Do you
think that a warrant from OUR Justice department authorizes one to
enter a foreign country and seize an individual and transport him
back to the US for trial???
Turn it around: if one of the countries opposed to the Iraq war
had it's legal department (whatever it might be called) issue a
warrant to seize George Bush for "terrorism" in Iraq, do you think
the Secret Service would release him to that country.
Next time try not to make an ABSOLUTE ***** of yourself.
.
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| User: "Robert Miller" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 05:38:47 PM |
|
|
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
are you talking about Bush or Clinton? Both avoided meaningfull
serveice in the military and Bush is trying to screw the Veterans
right now which shows he hates real men who served honorablly to his
embarrassment.
So why do those in the military have a much higher regaurd for either
Bush than for Clinton? Try to project your feeling about the Military
onto President Bush is futile!
Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican, regardless
of who is president. Didn't you ever guess why the Bush-ites were
so determined to count all the military votes in Florida, even
those that were cast illegally with postmarks the day after the
election???
Same reason the Democrats were so determined that those who served in the
military, votes shouldn't be counted?
Why do you think the majority of people in the military are republican?
These
are people who for the most part put their bodies where there mouth is as
far
as public service goes. In other words: Why are Republicans overwhelmingly
more likely to give their life for their Country than Democrats?
Even Ted Kennedy was not even willing to swim down 8 feet to try and save
a pregnant female passenger in his automobile, In reality he ran and hide
for 8
hours, yet he is the most popular Democrat in Washington D.C.
Hey! you said:
"Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican, regardless
of who is president. "
So again I ask why: "Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican,
regardless of who is president."
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
If you are so willing to drink Mr. Clinton's kool-aid why do fault anyone
for
drinking Bush's kool-aid? And do not accuse me of voting for or even
trusting
President Bush. I didn't vote for him, but I like most military men and
woment
trust him far and above Clinton, Gore, or any of the pack of nine who would
put the United Nations ahead of the United States.
Warrants are not hard to get when you are suspected of terrorism against
the United States. Just go to the Justice dept. and lay out your
evidence
and ask for one. It's not rocket science.
I think Clinton get's a pass no matter how many times he lies on t.v. to the
American people. He was dis-barred for lieing under oath and I've never
heard
a liberal who was upset with him for lieing. Do you know how hard it is for
a
lawyer to be dis-barred? I hope you don't try to claim that the BAR Assoc.
is
part of some vast right wing conspiracy, because most lawyers are liberals.
It's not rocket science, but it is international law. Do you
think that a warrant from OUR Justice department authorizes one to
enter a foreign country and seize an individual and transport him
back to the US for trial???
Only two countries were involved the United States and Sudan, and Sudan
wanted us to take him warrant or not.
Turn it around: if one of the countries opposed to the Iraq war
had it's legal department (whatever it might be called) issue a
warrant to seize George Bush for "terrorism" in Iraq, do you think
the Secret Service would release him to that country.
Next time try not to make an ABSOLUTE ***** of yourself.
I don't drink anybody's kool-aid, and if I make an ABSOLUTE ***** of myself
because I believe in right and wrong no matter what somebody's party
affiliation is then I will gladly take the title of an ABSOLUTE ***** with
pride.
I'll consider the source, I'd rather have some peoples insults than their
compliments.
Robert Miller
member of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal
Reserve Act, and the Internal Revenue Code www.norfed.org
One of over 2000 redemption centers Working to bring America
back to value one dollar at a time
.
|
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|
| User: "dpr" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 06:39:23 PM |
|
|
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:k-udnfYbz6BNW3Gi4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
are you talking about Bush or Clinton? Both avoided meaningfull
serveice in the military and Bush is trying to screw the Veterans
right now which shows he hates real men who served honorablly to his
embarrassment.
So why do those in the military have a much higher regaurd for either
Bush than for Clinton? Try to project your feeling about the Military
onto President Bush is futile!
Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican, regardless
of who is president. Didn't you ever guess why the Bush-ites were
so determined to count all the military votes in Florida, even
those that were cast illegally with postmarks the day after the
election???
Same reason the Democrats were so determined that those who served in the
military, votes shouldn't be counted?
And the very same thing happened in California. The Dems were able to stop
the counting of absentee ballots. Yes the overall outcome would not have
changed, gore would have still won California, but his popular vote lead
would have been reduced.
Why do you think the majority of people in the military are republican?
These
are people who for the most part put their bodies where there mouth is as
far
As a whole the Republican ideology is more akin to the classical liberalism
of our founders, hence the military tends to be more republican than
democrat. Had we had a military that had the same political ideology as the
left in America, we would have had coups by now, and the military would not
be trusted by the civilians. As it is Generals like Clarke are in the
minority, nor do they usually last in the military as people like Clarke are
weeded out.
as public service goes. In other words: Why are Republicans
overwhelmingly
more likely to give their life for their Country than Democrats?
We believe in the individual over the group, we value freedom and liberty.
Even Ted Kennedy was not even willing to swim down 8 feet to try and save
a pregnant female passenger in his automobile, In reality he ran and hide
for 8
hours, yet he is the most popular Democrat in Washington D.C.
Hey! you said:
"Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican, regardless
of who is president. "
So again I ask why: "Because military men are overwhelmingly Republican,
regardless of who is president."
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand
warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he
did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when
it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
If you are so willing to drink Mr. Clinton's kool-aid why do fault anyone
for
drinking Bush's kool-aid? And do not accuse me of voting for or even
trusting
President Bush. I didn't vote for him, but I like most military men and
woment
trust him far and above Clinton, Gore, or any of the pack of nine who
would
put the United Nations ahead of the United States.
Warrants are not hard to get when you are suspected of terrorism
against
the United States. Just go to the Justice dept. and lay out your
evidence
and ask for one. It's not rocket science.
I think Clinton get's a pass no matter how many times he lies on t.v. to
the
American people. He was dis-barred for lieing under oath and I've never
heard
a liberal who was upset with him for lieing. Do you know how hard it is
for
a
lawyer to be dis-barred? I hope you don't try to claim that the BAR
Assoc.
is
part of some vast right wing conspiracy, because most lawyers are
liberals.
It's not rocket science, but it is international law. Do you
think that a warrant from OUR Justice department authorizes one to
enter a foreign country and seize an individual and transport him
back to the US for trial???
Only two countries were involved the United States and Sudan, and Sudan
wanted us to take him warrant or not.
Turn it around: if one of the countries opposed to the Iraq war
had it's legal department (whatever it might be called) issue a
warrant to seize George Bush for "terrorism" in Iraq, do you think
the Secret Service would release him to that country.
Next time try not to make an ABSOLUTE ***** of yourself.
I don't drink anybody's kool-aid, and if I make an ABSOLUTE ***** of myself
because I believe in right and wrong no matter what somebody's party
affiliation is then I will gladly take the title of an ABSOLUTE ***** with
pride.
I'll consider the source, I'd rather have some peoples insults than their
compliments.
Robert Miller
member of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal
Reserve Act, and the Internal Revenue Code www.norfed.org
One of over 2000 redemption centers Working to bring America
back to value one dollar at a time
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 07:58:59 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:38:47 -0600, Robert Miller wrote:
I hope you don't try to claim that the BAR Assoc.
is part of some vast right wing conspiracy, because
most lawyers are liberals.
Growing up in Mississippi, 100% of the lawyers who worked for civil rights
were imported from other areas.
100% of the lawyers defending the Klan were native.
Lawyers tend to reflect the politics of the areas from where they come.
Here in Vicksburg, Mississippi, in the year 2003, I'd guesstimate 90% of the
lawyers who can be categorized, politically, are "conservative".
However - like most other places - the majority of lawyers are no more
political than the majority of this, that or the other.
The great majority do nothing to attract attention and are, therefore, not
"categorized".
To state that "most lawyers are liberals" is, basically, a null statement
with no meaning other than personal opinion and/or propaganda.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is
always one individual is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk
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| User: "SemiScholar" |
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| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 08:09:05 PM |
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:38:47 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
At the time Sudan supposedly "offered" bin Laden (1996), list the
terrorist bombings against the US that bin Laden had been involved in:
_________________________________________
Tell us exactly what acts the US could have charged bin Laden with
committing.
And BTW - it wasn't the Sudanese government that "offered" bin Laden,
it was a flaky, shady "business" person with a very shaky reputation
and a slimy past as a fraudulent wheeler-dealer who made the "offer".
Besides, I don't remember hearing you or any other right-winger EVER
calling for Clinton to go after bin Laden. You folks only
*criticized* Clinton whenever he tried to nail bin Laden or otherwise
fight the terrorists.
.
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| User: "Robert Miller" |
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| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 10:20:10 PM |
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"SemiScholar" <noemail@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:a4qpuvkis2kuat4rbom1sbt1rfs24q75p0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:38:47 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand
warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he
did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when
it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
At the time Sudan supposedly "offered" bin Laden (1996), list the
terrorist bombings against the US that bin Laden had been involved in:
Off the top of my head I remember is a prime suspect for the World Trade
Center bombing because al-Qaeda is connected to the 1993 World
Trade Center bombing.
There are strong links. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the militant cleric
convicted in the 1993 plot, once led an Egyptian group now affiliated with
al-Qaeda; two of his sons are senior al-Qaeda officials. And Ramzi Ahmed
Yousef, who was convicted of masterminding the 1993 attack, planned
al-Qaeda's foiled attack on American airliners over the Pacific Ocean. He is
also
the nephew of the former senior al-Qaeda terrorist Khalid Shaikh Muhammad,
who is now in U.S. custody.
I hope this refreshes your memory:-)
_________________________________________
Tell us exactly what acts the US could have charged bin Laden with
committing.
How about Terrorism, murder and vandalism?
And BTW - it wasn't the Sudanese government that "offered" bin Laden,
it was a flaky, shady "business" person with a very shaky reputation
and a slimy past as a fraudulent wheeler-dealer who made the "offer".
Besides, I don't remember hearing you or any other right-winger EVER
calling for Clinton to go after bin Laden. You folks only
*criticized* Clinton whenever he tried to nail bin Laden or otherwise
fight the terrorists.
That didn't stop him in 1998 as the London based Arabic newspaper, al-Quds,
reported that bin Laden narrowly escaped being killed by the missiles
because he had been delayed returning to one of the camps for a dinner
engagement.
The raids were in retaliation for the bombings of a pair of United States
embassies two weeks earlier on August 7: in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar as-
Salaam, Tanzania. The bombings killed 12 Americans and nearly 300 Africans.
He didn't need my blessing or that of the Right-wingers then.
Robert Miller
member of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal
Reserve Act, and the Internal Revenue Code www.norfed.org
One of over 2000 redemption centers Working to bring America
back to value one dollar at a time
.
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| User: "Thom" |
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| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
27 Dec 2003 06:11:31 PM |
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:20:10 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"SemiScholar" <noemail@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:a4qpuvkis2kuat4rbom1sbt1rfs24q75p0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:38:47 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand
warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he
did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when
it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
At the time Sudan supposedly "offered" bin Laden (1996), list the
terrorist bombings against the US that bin Laden had been involved in:
Off the top of my head I remember is a prime suspect for the World Trade
Center bombing because al-Qaeda is connected to the 1993 World
Trade Center bombing.
There are strong links. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the militant cleric
convicted in the 1993 plot, once led an Egyptian group now affiliated with
al-Qaeda; two of his sons are senior al-Qaeda officials. And Ramzi Ahmed
Yousef, who was convicted of masterminding the 1993 attack, planned
al-Qaeda's foiled attack on American airliners over the Pacific Ocean. He is
also
the nephew of the former senior al-Qaeda terrorist Khalid Shaikh Muhammad,
who is now in U.S. custody.
I hope this refreshes your memory:-)
No one doubts what you just said but we are a nation of laws and live
in an interbational community of laws. All the evidence says that
Clinton had no legal justification to take Bin Laden. That is beyond
his control. However if he made the judgement that Bin laden wasn't
important, that's another matter.
THOM
_________________________________________
Tell us exactly what acts the US could have charged bin Laden with
committing.
How about Terrorism, murder and vandalism?
And BTW - it wasn't the Sudanese government that "offered" bin Laden,
it was a flaky, shady "business" person with a very shaky reputation
and a slimy past as a fraudulent wheeler-dealer who made the "offer".
Besides, I don't remember hearing you or any other right-winger EVER
calling for Clinton to go after bin Laden. You folks only
*criticized* Clinton whenever he tried to nail bin Laden or otherwise
fight the terrorists.
That didn't stop him in 1998 as the London based Arabic newspaper, al-Quds,
reported that bin Laden narrowly escaped being killed by the missiles
because he had been delayed returning to one of the camps for a dinner
engagement.
The raids were in retaliation for the bombings of a pair of United States
embassies two weeks earlier on August 7: in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar as-
Salaam, Tanzania. The bombings killed 12 Americans and nearly 300 Africans.
He didn't need my blessing or that of the Right-wingers then.
Robert Miller
member of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal
Reserve Act, and the Internal Revenue Code www.norfed.org
One of over 2000 redemption centers Working to bring America
back to value one dollar at a time
.
|
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| User: "Robert Miller" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
26 Dec 2003 08:56:52 PM |
|
|
"SemiScholar" <noemail@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:a4qpuvkis2kuat4rbom1sbt1rfs24q75p0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:38:47 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand
warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he
did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when
it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
At the time Sudan supposedly "offered" bin Laden (1996), list the
terrorist bombings against the US that bin Laden had been involved in:
Off the top of my head I remember is a prime suspect for the World Trade
Center bombing in because al-Qaeda is connected to the 1993 World
Trade Center bombing.
There are strong links. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the militant cleric
convicted in the 1993 plot, once led an Egyptian group now affiliated with
al-Qaeda; two of his sons are senior al-Qaeda officials. And Ramzi Ahmed
Yousef, who was convicted of masterminding the 1993 attack, planned al-Qaeda
's foiled attack on American airliners over the Pacific Ocean. He is also
the nephew of the former senior al-Qaeda terrorist Khalid Shaikh Muhammad,
who is now in U.S. custody.
I hope this refreshes your memory:-)
_________________________________________
Tell us exactly what acts the US could have charged bin Laden with
committing.
How about Terrorism, murder and vandalism?
And BTW - it wasn't the Sudanese government that "offered" bin Laden,
it was a flaky, shady "business" person with a very shaky reputation
and a slimy past as a fraudulent wheeler-dealer who made the "offer".
Besides, I don't remember hearing you or any other right-winger EVER
calling for Clinton to go after bin Laden. You folks only
*criticized* Clinton whenever he tried to nail bin Laden or otherwise
fight the terrorists.
That didn't stop him in 1998 as the London based Arabic newspaper, al-Quds,
reported that bin Laden narrowly escaped being killed by the missiles
because
he had been delayed returning to one of the camps for a dinner engagement.
The
raids were in retaliation for the bombings of a pair of United States
embassies
two weeks earlier on August 7: in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar as-Salaam,
Tanzania. The bombings killed 12 Americans and nearly 300 Africans.
He didn't need my blessing or that of the Right-wingers then.
Robert Miller
member of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal
Reserve Act, and the Internal Revenue Code www.norfed.org
One of over 2000 redemption centers Working to bring America
back to value one dollar at a time
.
|
|
|
| User: "SemiScholar" |
|
| Title: Re: Alternative Energy Proves Deadly for Birds |
27 Dec 2003 10:53:07 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:56:52 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"SemiScholar" <noemail@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:a4qpuvkis2kuat4rbom1sbt1rfs24q75p0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:38:47 -0500, "Robert Miller"
<rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote:
"Chris the Liberal" <Cognitus44@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.0312261213.443518d7@posting.google.com...
"Robert Miller" <rmiller0100@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZidnQrkh_veoHGiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
thats bull. When the Sudan had him there were no outstand
warrents
to
take him. Clinton whould have broken international law if he
did.
And the Clinton administration did not so much as ask for a warrant when
it
was known that he was involved in terrorist bombings against the United
States.
At the time Sudan supposedly "offered" bin Laden (1996), list the
terrorist bombings against the US that bin Laden had been involved in:
Off the top of my head I remember is a prime suspect for the World Trade
Center bombing in because al-Qaeda is connected to the 1993 World
Trade Center bombing.
Wrong. There was no connection between al Qaeda and the 1993 bombing.
In 1996, most of the perps were known and had been caught. There were
two - Ramzi bin AlShibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who were involved
in the 1993 WTC attack who LATER became involved with al Qaeda, but
that was after 1996. They were brought into al Qaeda BECAUSE of their
involvement with prior acts.
There are strong links. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the militant cleric
convicted in the 1993 plot, once led an Egyptian group now affiliated with
al-Qaeda; two of his sons are senior al-Qaeda officials.
Rahman was not affiliated with al Qaeda. Al Qaeda barely existed in
1993, and was not involved with any anti-US terrorism acts at that
time. Yes, his *sons* are affiliated with al Qaeda, but not the old
blind cleric, whom Clinton threw in jail for his role in the 1993 WTC
bombing.
And Ramzi Ahmed
Yousef, who was convicted of masterminding the 1993 attack, planned al-Qaeda
's foiled attack on American airliners over the Pacific Ocean.
Again, Yousef's involvement with al Qaeda came AFTER the 1993 WTC
bombing, and was BECAUSE the al Qaeda leadership was impressed with
his prior acts. At the time Yousef was arrested (1995) for the
thwarted airliner hijackings, nobody knew that he was affiliated with
a wider terrorist group.
He is also
the nephew of the former senior al-Qaeda terrorist Khalid Shaikh Muhammad,
who is now in U.S. custody.
I hope this refreshes your memory:-)
Sorry, but you got your dates and chronologies wrong. Again, in 1996,
there was nothing that the US could have legally detained Osama Bin
Laden for, even if there HAD been a serious offer to turn him over.
The thing that is so amazing about this repeated ***** is that you
hate Clinton SO much that you're willing to believe ANYthing. Why on
EARTH would ANY president - ANY president - refuse to take custody of
a terrorist who had attacked the US? It's completely non-sensical.
Even YOU can't come up with a motive for why Clinton would do such a
thing. Nabbing a terrorist like that could ONLY help a president
politically - there is no downside (if he had actually done the things
that you allude to, but that even you don't actually come out and
say). After all the right-wingers accusing Clinton of "wag-the-dog",
it is inconceivable that he would pass up any real chance to make big
headlines in his favor.
_________________________________________
Tell us exactly what acts the US could have charged bin Laden with
committing.
How about Terrorism, murder and vandalism?
Vandalism? LOL! He spray-painted his tag on the wall?
Sheesh!
Anyway, like I pointed out, 1996 was before bin Laden had done
anything for which he could be charged. We knew he was heading an
anti-US organization and hated the US and was likely to be a problem,
but you can't just arrest a foreign national in a foreign sovereign
nation because you THINK he MIGHT be thinking about doing something.
Plus, of course, there was no REAL offer to turn him over anyway.
And BTW - it wasn't the Sudanese government that "offered" bin Laden,
it was a flaky, shady "business" person with a very shaky reputation
and a slimy past as a fraudulent wheeler-dealer who made the "offer".
Besides, I don't remember hearing you or any other right-winger EVER
calling for Clinton to go after bin Laden. You folks only
*criticized* Clinton whenever he tried to nail bin Laden or otherwise
fight the terrorists.
That didn't stop him in 1998 as the London based Arabic newspaper, al-Quds,
reported that bin Laden narrowly escaped being killed by the missiles
because
he had been delayed returning to one of the camps for a dinner engagement.
The
raids were in retaliation for the bombings of a pair of United States
embassies
two weeks earlier on August 7: in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar as-Salaam,
Tanzania. The bombings killed 12 Americans and nearly 300 Africans.
He didn't need my blessing or that of the Right-wingers then.
That's right. Clinton always did what he could to nail bin Laden, and
the right wingers always criticized him for it. By 1998, bin Laden
HAD committed acts for which we could nail him.
Jeeze - you argue against yourself.
.
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