Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls

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Topic:	Sociology > Education
User:	"HiC"
Date:	06 May 2007 05:58:33 AM
Object:	Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..
I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.
Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.
Yep, sugar and spice....
While it's not every kid, this kind of behavior isn't at all rare. And
this isn't some inner-city school, it's a suburban area in Florida.
They do it with administrators too. I have to wonder how do they go
through 9 - 12 years of the school system with the idea that it's okay
to behave this way?
.

User: "Knit Chic"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 09:31:52 PM

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

W/ this type of statement ... I don't blame the kids for not respecting you.
Very

disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

Yep, sugar and spice....

While it's not every kid, this kind of behavior isn't at all rare. And
this isn't some inner-city school, it's a suburban area in Florida.
They do it with administrators too. I have to wonder how do they go
through 9 - 12 years of the school system with the idea that it's okay
to behave this way?

User: "SumBuny"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 03:57:02 PM

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

Really....one of the lessons here is that not all "upper class kids" are
polite and nice and well behaved....and not all "trailer-park kids" are
poorly behaved either.

Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

Yep, sugar and spice....

While it's not every kid, this kind of behavior isn't at all rare. And
this isn't some inner-city school, it's a suburban area in Florida.
They do it with administrators too. I have to wonder how do they go
through 9 - 12 years of the school system with the idea that it's okay
to behave this way?

Again, I see a similar attitude...."this isn't some inner-city school, its a
suburban area in Florida." Well, I also live in a suburban area in Florida,
I tutor at-risk kids that come from all areas--inner-city, rural,
suburbs....none of them can be assUmed to be anything based on where they
live or what they look like...we do not like it when people do that to us,
why should we be doing that to our students?
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
.

User: "Don K"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 10:13:19 AM

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.
For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350
Don
.

User: "Stephanie"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 05:08:54 PM

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
news:2eadnWkZwd8RbaDbnZ2dnUVZ_sSmnZ2d@comcast.com...

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

Might want to check local laws. Some places have laws against recording.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "Rowley"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 11:07:11 AM

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do
audio recording without the permission / knowledge of all parties.
Martin
Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "Don K"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 11:42:28 AM

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent for
recording conversations.
But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.
Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.
Don
"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do audio recording
without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "SumBuny"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 03:59:26 PM

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
news:I4WdnaBGZqztmKPbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent
for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods
not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets
recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

You could also state this overtly...I actually work in a place that has
cameras in the classroom, blatantly for all to see (they are on the
corners)....
If the recorder is not hidden, but not "in the way" it will eventually be
forgotten...but even if it were not, it could still have the desired
effect--reducing the amount of unwanted vocabulary...
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
.

User: "Rowley"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 05:09:19 PM

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.
Martin
Don K wrote:

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do audio recording
without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "Don K"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 09:43:20 PM

No, you're going beyond what I said.
Sometimes common sense takes precedence over blind obedience to rules that may
be imperfectly crafted or not applicable in all situations.
When fleeing the waters of a tsunami wave, I'm not going to stop at the red traffic
light and wait for it to turn green.
Anyway, what I said was that I'd *rather* go thru the red light to flee the tsunami
than worry about whether I violated the traffic laws.
Don
"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nms%h.602$UU.79@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long as he gets what
he wants. And we wonder why children display that same tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

Don K wrote:

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do audio recording
without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "Rowley"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	07 May 2007 05:52:42 AM

Ok... both you and R. Steve Walz seem to be in agreement on this.
IMO though - making a comparison between a tsunami/running red light and
making a covert recording and using it as evidence against a kid is on
the same level as the argument that this Walz fellow makes.
Martin
Don K wrote:

No, you're going beyond what I said.

Sometimes common sense takes precedence over blind obedience to rules that may
be imperfectly crafted or not applicable in all situations.

When fleeing the waters of a tsunami wave, I'm not going to stop at the red traffic
light and wait for it to turn green.

Anyway, what I said was that I'd *rather* go thru the red light to flee the tsunami
than worry about whether I violated the traffic laws.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nms%h.602$UU.79@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long as he gets what
he wants. And we wonder why children display that same tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

Don K wrote:

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do audio recording
without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	07 May 2007 10:45:40 AM

Rowley wrote:

Ok... both you and R. Steve Walz seem to be in agreement on this.

------------------
Now we KNOW you're totally delusional.

IMO though - making a comparison between a tsunami/running red light and
making a covert recording and using it as evidence against a kid is on
the same level as the argument that this Walz fellow makes.

Martin

----------------------
There is NO "evidence against" the use of one's Freedom.
Steve
.

User: "Don K"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	07 May 2007 07:05:23 AM

Whatever the Walz guy says or thinks is irrelevant to me as I have no
association at all with him.
And if a kid threatened to fabricate such serious charges against me
I'd be justified IMO to take reasonable measures to protect myself.
That would include reporting the threats and documenting my classroom
actions with the mp3 recorder. Such recording appears to be legal in most
states and may be arguably legal in all if handled correctly.
Even if it isn't, I'd choose it as the lesser of two evils, rather than
run the risk of losing my livelihood and being falsely stigmatized for life.
Don
"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2yD%h.353$4X.263@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

Ok... both you and R. Steve Walz seem to be in agreement on this.

IMO though - making a comparison between a tsunami/running red light and making a covert
recording and using it as evidence against a kid is on the same level as the argument
that this Walz fellow makes.

Martin

Don K wrote:

No, you're going beyond what I said.

Sometimes common sense takes precedence over blind obedience to rules that may
be imperfectly crafted or not applicable in all situations.

When fleeing the waters of a tsunami wave, I'm not going to stop at the red traffic
light and wait for it to turn green.

Anyway, what I said was that I'd *rather* go thru the red light to flee the tsunami
than worry about whether I violated the traffic laws.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nms%h.602$UU.79@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long as he gets
what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same tendency to argue about
rules.

Martin

Don K wrote:

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do audio recording
without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it - even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "Stephanie"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 05:13:23 PM

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
news:kI2dnZYmevliiKLbnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Whatever the Walz guy says or thinks is irrelevant to me as I have no
association at all with him.

And if a kid threatened to fabricate such serious charges against me
I'd be justified IMO to take reasonable measures to protect myself.
That would include reporting the threats and documenting my classroom
actions with the mp3 recorder. Such recording appears to be legal in most
states and may be arguably legal in all if handled correctly.

Even if it isn't, I'd choose it as the lesser of two evils, rather than
run the risk of losing my livelihood and being falsely stigmatized for
life.

I'd ask myself what overall *value* does the blind following of rules hold
over my right to protect myself from legal harm, help this child learn the
consequences of lying and help my school kids retain a good teacher. But
that would be me. And perhaps you.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2yD%h.353$4X.263@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

Ok... both you and R. Steve Walz seem to be in agreement on this.

IMO though - making a comparison between a tsunami/running red light and
making a covert recording and using it as evidence against a kid is on
the same level as the argument that this Walz fellow makes.

Martin

Don K wrote:

No, you're going beyond what I said.

Sometimes common sense takes precedence over blind obedience to rules
that may
be imperfectly crafted or not applicable in all situations.

When fleeing the waters of a tsunami wave, I'm not going to stop at the
red traffic
light and wait for it to turn green.

Anyway, what I said was that I'd *rather* go thru the red light to flee
the tsunami
than worry about whether I violated the traffic laws.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nms%h.602$UU.79@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

Don K wrote:

Actually most states and the federal law require only one party consent
for
recording conversations.

But in this case the stated intent is to record your own teaching
methods not
conversations. Any nearby conversation within audio range that gets
recorded
is just coincidental and unintentional.

Personally I'd rather have hard exculpatory evidence when facing
fabricated charges than worry about technicalities which are arguable.

Don

"Rowley" <industry3dREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:463DFD2F.8070802@yahoo.com...

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do
audio recording without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

Martin

Don K wrote:

"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178449113.129129.34800@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

I do substituting in public schools. I get the impression that teens
seem different today. Besides the whole pants around the *****,
shuffling ghetto attitude, I'm struck by the attitude and
comportment
of a large number of teen girls - what nasty, surly, outright
malevolent pieces of work so many of them are. They dress like
hookers, use "*****" as casual speech, etc..

I wrote up a couple of the little princesses the other day. One for
repeated language issues, and she not only absolutely denied it -
even
after going on a swearing binge when I advised her she was getting a
referral - but I overheard her telling her friends "This is fuckin'
*****, I'm gonna tell them he touched me". I wrote a follow-up
note to the administration advising them of this. Supposedly this
girl's parents are attorneys, she's not some trailer-park kid. Very
disturbing that their minds run in that direction - their first
instinct is to lie and lash out rather than take responsibility for
their behavior.

Another went on a "***** you muthafuckin *****" etc. etc. tirade
as
she was leaving the room with a referral.

I suggest you keep a mp3 voice recorder in your shirt pocket running
while you teach your classes, just to help you "optimize" your
lesson
presentations. . A side benefit will be that if some unfounded
accusations
are made, you will have proof they are bogus and may even be able to
seek
damages from the parents.

For instance, you can buy a Sandisk Sansa 1GB mp3 player/recorder/fm
radio
for under 50 bucks.
http://base.google.com/base/a/1053985/D3421791574347547350

Don

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 07:43:04 PM

Rowley wrote:

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

----------------
Because some "rules" are IMMORAL, you *****!
Steve
.

User: "Stephanie"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 05:10:48 PM

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E7618.275A@armory.com...

Rowley wrote:

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

----------------
Because some "rules" are IMMORAL, you *****!
Steve

I wasn't going to say that exactly. But what is it about caring about rules
in this society rather than more important values. If we had democracy in
education, with investiture rather than forcing, nagging and punishing, the
kids might actually WANT to be there. But honestly, I never wanted to be at
school and don't blame my little man for not wanting to be there either.
.

User: "Beeblebrox"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	07 May 2007 06:26:54 PM

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rowley wrote:

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

----------------
Because some "rules" are IMMORAL, you *****!
Steve

as an educator, there is also the imperative to teach students the
"hidden rules" of situations: like the ihdden rule that says a
semi-formal situation is NOT a good time to pull out the sailor vocabulary.
.

User: "Stephanie"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 05:11:36 PM

"Beeblebrox" <beeblebrox.ag.NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9BO%h.112160$s8.16490@newsfe21.lga...

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rowley wrote:

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

----------------
Because some "rules" are IMMORAL, you *****!
Steve

as an educator, there is also the imperative to teach students the "hidden
rules" of situations: like the ihdden rule that says a semi-formal
situation is NOT a good time to pull out the sailor vocabulary.

Better still is to teach them the whys and wherefores of judgement and lead
toward enlightened self interest and true empathy. But any one teacher can't
really do that for a child.
.

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	07 May 2007 06:45:51 PM

Beeblebrox wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rowley wrote:

So.... an adult that doesn't worry about technicalities.... just so long
as he gets what he wants. And we wonder why children display that same
tendency to argue about rules.

Martin

----------------
Because some "rules" are IMMORAL, you *****!
Steve

--------------
That began with oppressionn by the nobility, where they didn't want
to hear the insults of their slaves!! That must end HERE AND NOW!!
And there ain't actually any such thing.
Steve
.

User: "Mac Cool"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 02:38:58 PM

Rowley:

Keep in mind - that it's against the law in some (most?) states to do
audio recording without the permission / knowledge of all parties.

I believe that is only true if there is a reasonable expectation of
privacy. There could be little expectation of privacy for anything spoken
within a classroom.
--
Mac Cool
.

User: "Rosalie B."
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 10:36:50 AM

HiC <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>
It is hard to be a substitute. The kids will always test you. That's
not new.
I had a substitute when I was in 9th grade science (1951) and the
class was completely out of hand. It was confined to the room, but
there was no other restriction and no teaching or learning. The boys
teased one of the girls to tears. When my mother complained, the
principal admitted that we would have learned more if they had turned
us out onto the athletic fields. We got another substitute - an
ex-Marine - and he got the class settled down.
Right after I got married (1959) I was a long term sub in a Florida
school, and the principal talked to me before I started and told me
that if I had any problem with people questioning my authority, that I
should come directly to him. And I had no problem as long as I worked
in that school.
When I was in my mid 20s (in the mid 60s), my mom and I used to
substitute. My mom loved going to the schools that had mostly a blue
collar population. She hated going to the school around the corner
from us where the doctors and lawyers children went. Even in those
days, there was no discipline in that school (which is where I went to
school)
In the mid 70s I was substitute teacher (before I got my certificate)
and one of the girls answered a 9th grade science quiz question (What
causes scale deposits in tea kettles) with "It's bacteria and *****
like that in the water". This was a written quiz, and her friend
copied her answer so I had two papers with the same answer. I gave
them both a zero for the quiz for cheating (not for the language) even
though the answer had an element of truth in it. (They wanted to know
how I knew that they had copied)

While it's not every kid, this kind of behavior isn't at all rare. And
this isn't some inner-city school, it's a suburban area in Florida.
They do it with administrators too. I have to wonder how do they go
through 9 - 12 years of the school system with the idea that it's okay
to behave this way?

It is because the administration is spineless and does not support the
teachers - the child is always right and their psyche must be handled
gently - discipline is wrong and will damage them.. Friends of mine
from when I was a teacher, who have been teaching and successful for
many years retired early to get away from this. Most of the good
teachers are looking forward to getting out.
.

User: "The Serial Killfiler"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	13 May 2007 09:26:53 PM

On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:36:50 GMT, Rosalie B.
<gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote:

There is a culture of repressed rage in this country that holds that
strong emotions must be feared, or considered embarassing. You
absolutely must not confront others and arouse them to anger, and we
dismiss much as "crimes of passion." You can't even cry at funerals
without others resenting you for making them uncomfortable.
There is much unhealthy programming and neglectful parenting that goes
into creating a kid who is like an eggshell-- at the slightest
pressure, he cracks.
Julnar
------------------------------------------
"But you don't look like a Pakistanian!"
alhuriyehNOBOTS@NOBOTSyahoo.com
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
.

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	13 May 2007 11:25:41 PM

The Serial Killfiler wrote:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:36:50 GMT, Rosalie B.
<gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote:

-------------
The ones who crack and kill people and commit serious crimes against
persons are those who are coerced, oppressed, and dishonored by parental
authoritarianism. The early experiences of those on death row read like
a manual to do the same stupid crap you just seemed to suggest!! When
we were kids and parents abused kids, more people were unhappy, stupid,
abused, and MURDERED by kids who were abused!!
The crowd who always suggest a return to the "old ways" are not to be
trusted, they are themselves just disappointed abusers who simply want
another shot at it.
Steve
.

User: "yoyo"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	30 May 2007 10:45:44 AM

On May 14, 9:25 am, "R. Steve Walz" <rste...@armory.com> wrote:

The Serial Killfiler wrote:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:36:50 GMT, Rosalie B.
<gmbeas...@mindspring.com> wrote:

There is much unhealthy programming and neglectful parenting that goes
into creating a kid who is like an eggshell-- at the slightest
pressure, he cracks.

Julnar

-------------
The ones who crack and kill people and commit serious crimes against
persons are those who are coerced, oppressed, and dishonored by parental
authoritarianism. The early experiences of those on death row read like
a manual to do the same stupid crap you just seemed to suggest!! When
we were kids andparentsabused kids, more people were unhappy, stupid,
abused, and MURDERED by kids who were abused!!

The crowd who always suggest a return to the "old ways" are not to be
trusted, they are themselves just disappointed abusers who simply want
another shot at it.
Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We should let the children lead a happy life. It is their right.
Authoritarian parents are the worst creatures. I am a parent and a
teacher. I don't see any parent taught values to a child by authority.
Let's not try to write kid's destinies.They will do the job. Some
parenting ideas are discussed on my blog.
.

User: "yoyo"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	31 May 2007 09:11:48 PM

On May 14, 9:25 am, "R. Steve Walz" <rste...@armory.com> wrote:

The Serial Killfiler wrote:

On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:36:50 GMT, Rosalie B.
<gmbeas...@mindspring.com> wrote:

There is much unhealthy programming and neglectful parenting that goes
into creating a kid who is like an eggshell-- at the slightest
pressure, he cracks.

Julnar

-------------
The ones who crack and kill people and commit serious crimes against
persons are those who are coerced, oppressed, and dishonored by parental
authoritarianism. The early experiences of those on death row read like
a manual to do the same stupid crap you just seemed to suggest!! When
we were kids andparentsabused kids, more people were unhappy, stupid,
abused, and MURDERED by kids who were abused!!

The crowd who always suggest a return to the "old ways" are not to be
trusted, they are themselves just disappointed abusers who simply want
another shot at it.
Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 01:24:04 PM

HiC wrote:

---------------------
If you write up ANYBODY for THEIR SPEECH, I hope you DIE!!
We need to DESTROY your kind of ***** for this to become America again!!
You deserve ANYTHING those girls can do to you.
ANYTHING!
Steve
.

User: "SumBuny"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 04:03:56 PM

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E1D44.6414@armory.com...

HiC wrote:

Interesting...considering that in the student handbook, disrespect to school
personnel is considered an offense in the handbook, and vulgar words are
considered suspendable offenses...students are specifically instructed on
this, and cannot claim ignorance of the fact--they are given warnings, and
then in school suspensions before out of school suspensions...
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
.

User: "Stephanie"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 05:18:18 PM

"SumBuny" <Sumbuny@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
news:_or%h.438472$Pi4.423171@newsfe14.lga...

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E1D44.6414@armory.com...

HiC wrote:

Interesting...considering that in the student handbook, disrespect to
school personnel is considered an offense in the handbook, and vulgar
words are considered suspendable offenses...students are specifically
instructed on this, and cannot claim ignorance of the fact--they are given
warnings, and then in school suspensions before out of school
suspensions...

Is disrespect to the school students also considered an offense in the
handbook? Are they not also both human and part of the school community? I
wonder why their basic right to respect is put at a lesser place than those
of the faculty? Could it be that the faculty EXPECT unruly monsters? Have
you ever noticed that often people live up to what you expect of them?
Our educational system is ... systemically fucked up. And needs a ground up
overhaul. I might even go on to say that many (note to many of the good
people on ASM. I said Many. Not Most. Maybe I could even be convinced to
downgrade to some) people's attitudes about children is fucked up and the
educational system's major overhaul is not going to be able to happen until
people realize that children aren't some kind of deviant weirdos about to
explode into gunfire at any minute and are not deserving of respect for
their rights until they turn some arbitrary age.
Wow. How's that for a rant?
.

User: "SumBuny"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	08 May 2007 06:56:54 PM

"Stephanie" <haaa@noway.net> wrote in message
news:KG60i.3460$rk5.80@trndny06...

"SumBuny" <Sumbuny@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
news:_or%h.438472$Pi4.423171@newsfe14.lga...

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E1D44.6414@armory.com...

HiC wrote:

Interesting...considering that in the student handbook, disrespect to
school personnel is considered an offense in the handbook, and vulgar
words are considered suspendable offenses...students are specifically
instructed on this, and cannot claim ignorance of the fact--they are
given warnings, and then in school suspensions before out of school
suspensions...

It is definately taught, that students should be respectful to others
(adults, students, whomever) as well as to be respectful *to
themselves*...However, it is not always possible to note when they might be
doing so with each other...

Our educational system is ... systemically fucked up. And needs a ground
up overhaul. I might even go on to say that many (note to many of the good
people on ASM. I said Many. Not Most. Maybe I could even be convinced to
downgrade to some) people's attitudes about children is fucked up and the
educational system's major overhaul is not going to be able to happen
until people realize that children aren't some kind of deviant weirdos
about to explode into gunfire at any minute and are not deserving of
respect for their rights until they turn some arbitrary age.

Wow. How's that for a rant?

<G> You may be preaching to the choir here....
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
.

User: "R. Steve Walz"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 07:32:50 PM

SumBuny wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E1D44.6414@armory.com...

HiC wrote:

----------------------------
And YOU deserve anything YOU get TOO, you anti-free piece of *****!!
Free Clue: Do they have such rules in junior college? NO! And yet
they have no appreciable problem with "law and order". Therefore,
why such a rule? Think about it and learn!!
Steve
.

User: "SumBuny"
Title: Re: Behavior and attitude of modern teens, particularly girls	06 May 2007 07:50:34 PM

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E73B2.779A@armory.com...

SumBuny wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:463E1D44.6414@armory.com...

HiC wrote:

Interesting...considering that in the student handbook, disrespect to
school
personnel is considered an offense in the handbook, and vulgar words are
considered suspendable offenses...students are specifically instructed on
this, and cannot claim ignorance of the fact--they are given warnings,
and
then in school suspensions before out of school suspensions...

----------------------------
And YOU deserve anything YOU get TOO, you anti-free piece of *****!!

Free Clue: Do they have such rules in junior college? NO! And yet
they have no appreciable problem with "law and order". Therefore,
why such a rule? Think about it and learn!!

Interesting that you would compare a school that students do not have a
right to attend to for free (i.e. a college that they must pay tuition for
as an adult) to one that they do (i.e. public school education). Yes, this
is the same idea that means that students are to be provided with an
education at taxpayer expense. But nothing states where they must attend
it, and nothing guarantees them the right to verbally harrass anyone while
they do so.
Oh, and FWIW, I just checked with my university handbook, and it
specifically states in its regulations under "Freedom of Speech and
Assemblies"
The on-campus exercise of public expression and assembly by students and
faculty shall be in accordance with the guidelines set forth herein:
(1) Responsibility - Each speaker shall be fully responsible for any
violation of Federal and State law or University regulation committed by
him.
(2) Scheduled Assembly and Public Expression - Areas on the campus, except
for the assembly area designated on the campus map must be scheduled for
organized assemblies and public expression in the Office of Student
Activities.
(5) Noninterference with University Operation - In order that assemblies and
public expression, scheduled and
unscheduled, not interfere with the operation of the University or the
rights of others, they shall not, for example:
(a) Obstruct vehicular, bicycle, pedestrian, or other traffic;
(b) Obstruct entrances or exits to buildings or driveways;
(c) Interfere with University operation inside or outside any buildings;
Students are allowed to have freedom of speech, and may assemble...but
nothing allows them to verbally abuse fellow students, staff, or faculty
(that could be in violation of federal and/or state laws). You ask if there
are any rules in colleges? I would suggest you go to your nearest college
and *ask*...you might be surprised--your privilages to attend could depend
on how you behave there.
My "free clue" to you--you need to behave like an adult there as well...
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
.

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