Sociology > Education > Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools
| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
13 Oct 2005 12:46:19 PM |
| Object: |
Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools |
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051013/OPINION03/510130324/1006
[excerpt]
Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not
schools
by Bruce Steinbicker
published October 13, 2005 6:00 am
'Portals of Prayer" is a devotional guide published by Concordia Publishing
House, an arm of the ultra-conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. The
current issue offers some thoughts about the responsibilities of parents
and schools in child-rearing that are of particular interest because of a
recent discussion I had with an advocate of school sanctioned student
prayer.
I mentioned the importance of preserving the separation of church and state
in a guest appearance on WZNN's "Heads Up America." A caller challenged me
to cite where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and
state. The words church and state are not used, but the First Amendment to
the Constitution begins with these words: "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof."
Clearly, the government would be in violation of the law if it required
public school students to participate in forced prayer.
The caller attributed what he sees as an increase in crime and a decline in
morals to the absence of prayer in school. He said God has been kicked out
of the schools.
[end excerpt]
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "The Fool" |
|
| Title: Re: Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools |
13 Oct 2005 04:03:08 PM |
|
|
"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to
justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverance
for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals,
religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are
essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness...let us
unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in
all future time."
9th President William Henry Harrison in his official Inaugural Address
speaking of his faith and calling on the nation to pray to God. It
should be noted that a teacher would be sued for repeating the same
words in their official capacity.
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=3D/20051013/OPINIO=
N03/510130324/1006
[excerpt]
Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not
schools
by Bruce Steinbicker
published October 13, 2005 6:00 am
'Portals of Prayer" is a devotional guide published by Concordia Publishi=
ng
House, an arm of the ultra-conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. T=
he
current issue offers some thoughts about the responsibilities of parents
and schools in child-rearing that are of particular interest because of a
recent discussion I had with an advocate of school sanctioned student
prayer.
I mentioned the importance of preserving the separation of church and sta=
te
in a guest appearance on WZNN's "Heads Up America." A caller challenged me
to cite where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and
state. The words church and state are not used, but the First Amendment to
the Constitution begins with these words: "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof."
Clearly, the government would be in violation of the law if it required
public school students to participate in forced prayer.
The caller attributed what he sees as an increase in crime and a decline =
in
morals to the absence of prayer in school. He said God has been kicked out
of the schools.
[end excerpt]
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio and Books
http://www.geocities.com/writingken
http://www.lulu.com/writingken
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools |
15 Oct 2005 09:29:23 AM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to
:|justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverance
:|for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals,
:|religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are
:|essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness...let us
:|unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in
:|all future time."
:|
:|9th President William Henry Harrison in his official Inaugural Address
:|speaking of his faith and calling on the nation to pray to God. It
:|should be noted that a teacher would be sued for repeating the same
:|words in their official capacity.
I take it this is suppose to mean something profound?
I am curious how you feel it relates to what follows or are you pulling a
barclay, i.e. just using anything as a launching pad to post whatever it is
you feel you need to post to somehow counter what i posted? Is that it?
If this teacher was working as a teacher in her classroom full of students
during class time it would be in violation of the Establishment Clause.
If I had knowledge of such happening I would contact the school and
register a complaint.
:|
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|> http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051013/OPINION03/510130324/1006
:|> [excerpt]
:|>
:|> Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not
:|> schools
:|> by Bruce Steinbicker
:|> published October 13, 2005 6:00 am
:|>
:|> 'Portals of Prayer" is a devotional guide published by Concordia Publishing
:|> House, an arm of the ultra-conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. The
:|> current issue offers some thoughts about the responsibilities of parents
:|> and schools in child-rearing that are of particular interest because of a
:|> recent discussion I had with an advocate of school sanctioned student
:|> prayer.
:|>
:|> I mentioned the importance of preserving the separation of church and state
:|> in a guest appearance on WZNN's "Heads Up America." A caller challenged me
:|> to cite where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and
:|> state. The words church and state are not used, but the First Amendment to
:|> the Constitution begins with these words: "Congress shall make no law
:|> respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
:|> thereof."
:|>
:|> Clearly, the government would be in violation of the law if it required
:|> public school students to participate in forced prayer.
:|>
:|> The caller attributed what he sees as an increase in crime and a decline in
:|> morals to the absence of prayer in school. He said God has been kicked out
:|> of the schools.
:|> [end excerpt]
:|>
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Fool" |
|
| Title: Re: Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools |
15 Oct 2005 01:57:30 PM |
|
|
wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to
:|justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverance
:|for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals,
:|religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are
:|essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness...let us
:|unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in
:|all future time."
:|
:|9th President William Henry Harrison in his official Inaugural Address
:|speaking of his faith and calling on the nation to pray to God. It
:|should be noted that a teacher would be sued for repeating the same
:|words in their official capacity.
I take it this is suppose to mean something profound?
I am curious how you feel it relates to what follows or are you pulling a
barclay, i.e. just using anything as a launching pad to post whatever it is
you feel you need to post to somehow counter what i posted? Is that it?
If this teacher was working as a teacher in her classroom full of students
during class time it would be in violation of the Establishment Clause.
If I had knowledge of such happening I would contact the school and
register a complaint.
So, a teacher on official time would be sued for quoting something a
President said on his official time? Are you saying the President
should have been sued?
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio and Books
http://www.geocities.com/writingken
http://www.lulu.com/writingken
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Children's religious training best handled by parents, churches, not schools |
20 Oct 2005 08:40:31 AM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|> "The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to
:|> >:|justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverance
:|> >:|for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals,
:|> >:|religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are
:|> >:|essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness...let us
:|> >:|unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in
:|> >:|all future time."
:|> >:|
:|> >:|9th President William Henry Harrison in his official Inaugural Address
:|> >:|speaking of his faith and calling on the nation to pray to God. It
:|> >:|should be noted that a teacher would be sued for repeating the same
:|> >:|words in their official capacity.
:|>
:|> I take it this is suppose to mean something profound?
:|>
:|> I am curious how you feel it relates to what follows or are you pulling a
:|> barclay, i.e. just using anything as a launching pad to post whatever it is
:|> you feel you need to post to somehow counter what i posted? Is that it?
:|>
:|>
:|> If this teacher was working as a teacher in her classroom full of students
:|> during class time it would be in violation of the Establishment Clause.
:|>
:|> If I had knowledge of such happening I would contact the school and
:|> register a complaint.
:|>
:|
:|So, a teacher on official time would be sued for quoting something a
:|President said on his official time? Are you saying the President
:|should have been sued?
Context dear, context.
You know that, I know that. Context
Check out this dude
# The Saga of Stevens Creek Elementary School
* Stevens Creek Elementary vs the ADF.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/stevens.htm
* Information and links regarding the suit of a teacher against his
Cupertino, CA superiors for infringement of 1st Amendment rights which is
backed by the Alliance Defense Fund.
http://www.eriposte.com/philosophy/fundamentalism/christianright.htm
o Church-State Separation in the United States: Religion in
Public Schools and the Legal/Off-Courtroom Strategies of the Christian
Right
http://www.eriposte.com/philosophy/fundamentalism/christianright.htm
o Far-Right Fundamentalists launch intimidation campaign against
Stevens Creek Elementary School Principal in Cupertino, CA
http://www.eriposte.com/philosophy/fundamentalism/stevenscreek.htm
o Update on Stevens Creek
http://www.eriposte.com/philosophy/fundamentalism/stevenscreek.htm#UPDATE020505
o Alliance Defense Fund belatedly acknowledges that the claim
that the "Declaration of Independence was banned..."
http://www.eriposte.com/philosophy/fundamentalism/stevenscreek.htm#1_1
**********************************************************************************
Can we say context?
Religion In The Public Schools: A Joint Statement Of Current Law
http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/04-1995/prayer.html
Can we say context?
*********************************************************************
You will find some, just a part of the source material used for my posts,
replies and articles in the following. In most cases the information is
provided in two formats, MS WORD or COREL WORDPERFECT.
Thus it is provided in a form that about 95% of the people can use
The following is not ever close to being a complete list. It hasn't been
updated in several years.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/files/
PRIMARY SOURCE HISTORICAL MATERIAL
book project index.doc MsWord Document 451 KB
Mar 20, 2005
book project index.wpd My book project (ongoing) 233 KB
Feb 17, 2005
******************************************************************
BOOKS, LEGAL AND HISTORICAL AND PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL
book33-4.doc MS Word document 586 KB
Mar 20, 2005
book33-4.wpd books historical papers C&S 153 KB
Feb 12, 2005
*******************************************************************
COURT OPINIONS LATE 1700s TO PRESENT
State and Federal
case index.doc MsWord Document 256 KB
Mar 20, 2005
case index.wpd church state court cases 1700s to present 52 KB
Feb 17, 2005
*****************************************************************
JOURNAL ARTICLES
oneart5.doc
MS Word Document 272 KB
Mar 20, 2005
oneart5.wpd
Some of C&S journal articles I have here 87 KB
Feb 12, 2005
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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