| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Dominic Torrazzi" |
| Date: |
23 Mar 2006 03:02:12 PM |
| Object: |
Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
I'm hoping the right to life crowd can give me an explanation as to why they
don't take their own bible as an authority for when life begins. You stick
to your guns that life begins at conception, but the bible says it doesn't:
Genesis 9:3-4
"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to
you, as I gave the green plant. "Only you shall not eat flesh with its
life, that is, its blood.
Deuteronomy 12:23
"Only be sure not to eat the blood, for the blood is the life, and you
shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Science has determined that red blood is not formed in the developing
blastocyst until the fifth week. This isn't something that is questionable,
it is a known quantity. So if literalists believe that the bible is
literally true they must not continue to insist that life begins at
conception. It begins at five weeks.
So let me know if you disagree and if you would still object to abortions
before the five week period.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
24 Apr 2006 09:43:48 AM |
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Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy, make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Since He's not here, and not likely to show up any time soon, why don't you
explain what's inherently sinful about being gay?
There is nothing inherently sinful about being gay. Gay means happy,
and happiness is the object of our existence. The problem you are
having is that you are trying to say that in order to be gay, a person
has to be homosexual. Being homosexual is inherently sinful.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Curt" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
25 Apr 2006 02:37:51 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145889828.181781.262840@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy,
make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if
they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking
you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly
from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and
observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he
jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on
the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Since He's not here, and not likely to show up any time soon, why don't
you
explain what's inherently sinful about being gay?
There is nothing inherently sinful about being gay. Gay means happy,
and happiness is the object of our existence. The problem you are
having is that you are trying to say that in order to be gay, a person
has to be homosexual. Being homosexual is inherently sinful.
Sigh.
You're being a brick here.
Why don't you explain what's inherently sinful about being homosexual?
For extra credit, explain what's worse about it than, say, eating meat and
milk in the same meal. Or eating lobster.
Curt
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
01 May 2006 01:02:14 PM |
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Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145889828.181781.262840@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy,
make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if
they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking
you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly
from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and
observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he
jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on
the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Since He's not here, and not likely to show up any time soon, why don't
you
explain what's inherently sinful about being gay?
There is nothing inherently sinful about being gay. Gay means happy,
and happiness is the object of our existence. The problem you are
having is that you are trying to say that in order to be gay, a person
has to be homosexual. Being homosexual is inherently sinful.
Sigh.
You're being a brick here.
Why don't you explain what's inherently sinful about being homosexual?
For extra credit, explain what's worse about it than, say, eating meat and
milk in the same meal. Or eating lobster.
Homosexuality is willful disobedience of God. Dietary laws of the Law
of Moses are not a requirement today. The Law of Moses was fulfilled
when Jesus Christ was born.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
17 Apr 2006 05:28:14 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy, make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Why don't you answer the question put to you.
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige? If it should then why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow
polygamy, make men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Your intentional attempt at changing the subject will be ignored.
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
17 Apr 2006 07:04:22 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy, make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Why don't you answer the question put to you.
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige? If it should then why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow
polygamy, make men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Your intentional attempt at changing the subject will be ignored.
Well, what you do not understand is that I have no control over this
government. The government is controlled at the present time by two
corrupt political parties, each of which has a large contingent of
homosexuals. I am an independent voter. There is no one that I even
want to vote for at the present time because political parties make
certain that only corrupt and dishonest people can be candidates for
office. If I know that a person is homosexual, I do not vote for them
because homosexuals are dishonest people.
On the other hand, people like you who promote dishonesty have many
homosexuals to vote for at the present time. Why are you complaining
to me about the government?
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 10:46:10 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145318662.291608.282160@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145310816.151643.159950@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145278902.049617.152200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
If it does, why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow polygamy, make
men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Homosexuals need to concentrate their efforts on repentance if they
want to be saved.
He's not asking homosexuals and he's not homosexual. He's asking you.
You're
trying to evade the question.
We get used to that pattern of behavior around here, particularly from
the
holier-than-thous. Subsequently, we challenge their beliefs and
observe
their entry into the pattern.
It's like this little bird I have. Whenever I click my fingers he
jacks
his
head way back and chirps. On the second click he bangs his beak on the
perch
and makes a "cuckoo" sound. It makes absolutely NO sense, but it's
hilarious.
So you are saying that homosexuals do not sin and therefore have no
need of the principle of repentance. Why don't you discuss your idea
with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth?
Why don't you answer the question put to you.
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige? If it should then why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow
polygamy, make men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Your intentional attempt at changing the subject will be ignored.
Well, what you do not understand is that I have no control over this
government. The government is controlled at the present time by two
corrupt political parties, each of which has a large contingent of
homosexuals. I am an independent voter. There is no one that I even
want to vote for at the present time because political parties make
certain that only corrupt and dishonest people can be candidates for
office. If I know that a person is homosexual, I do not vote for them
because homosexuals are dishonest people.
On the other hand, people like you who promote dishonesty have many
homosexuals to vote for at the present time. Why are you complaining
to me about the government?
Your intentional attempt to change the subject is ignored.
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige? If it should then why shouldn't it adhere to all and allow
polygamy, make men
marry their sister in law if the husband dies, etc?
Obviously you can't answer the question honestly because it would make you
look like a hypocrit.
.
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| User: "samurai" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 12:39:28 PM |
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Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
Why should we adhere to ANY of the basic Judeo-Christian principles this
nation was founded on?
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 03:45:45 PM |
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samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
Why should we adhere to ANY of the basic Judeo-Christian principles this
nation was founded on?
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Thou shalt not commit adultery? Ever read a biography of Ben
Franklin?
Thou shalt no kill? Those patriots at Lexington and Concord did a
***** Cheney and accidentally shot the British when they saw the
"whites of their eyes"?
Thou shalt not covet? Don't make me laugh - this is the most covetous
society that ever existed.
lojbab
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| User: "samurai" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 04:10:42 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
Why should we adhere to ANY of the basic Judeo-Christian principles this
nation was founded on?
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
Most people don’t realize what this nation was like at its beginning.
Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as
the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our
country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic
Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the
people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.
Reverend Jonas Clark was the "parson" of a church in a small town called
Lexington. In his church parking lot, only a few feet from the church
parsonage, the "shot heard around the world" was fired. The people that
were killed were members of his congregation. Clark looked down with
great anguish at the bodies of those who had died and made this
statement: "From this day will be dated the liberty of the world." It
began in a church. It began with a pastor that was part of the "Black
Regiment" because of the black robes they wore. These pastors preached
resounding sermons that resonated throughout New England about the evils
of tyranny and the importance of liberty.
Revolutionary leaders were devout men who could not have been more
empathic in their determination that our national policy rested on
Scriptural foundation. Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional
Convention, 52 were Orthodox Christians.
OUR FOUNDING FOREFATHERS PAVE THE WAY BEFORE US:
After signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, who was
called the firebrand of the American Revolution, affirmed his obedience
to God by stating, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom
alone men ought to be obedient. From the rising to the setting of the
sun may His kingdom come."
Reverend Doctor John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration of
Independence, member of the Continental Congress, described as the "man
who shaped the man that shaped America" said, "God grant that in America
true religion and civil liberty may be inseparable . . . ." Reverend
Witherspoon was also responsible for publishing two American editions of
the Bible.
Benjamin Franklin, who signed the Declaration and was often identified
as a deist in his younger years, delivered his most famous speech on
June 28, 1787, at the age of eighty-one. He said, "I have lived, sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of
this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow
cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an
empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the
Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain
that build it."
Other notable Christian signers of the Declaration were: Charles
Thompson, who is responsible for the first translation of the Greek
Septuagint into English; Dr. Benjamin Rush, founder of the first Bible
Society in America; Francis Hopkinson, who was responsible for the first
American hymnbook; Cesar Rodney, whose home State of Delaware (the first
state to ratify the U.S. Constitution) required that officeholders sign
a declaration of Christian faith, Thomas Nelson JR, Commander of the
Virginia Militia, and Thomas McKean, the man responsible for the first
legal commentary on the constitution of the United States.
Pennsylvania’s Chief Justice, a founding father, said to a man sentenced
to die for treason, "It behooves you most seriously to reflect upon your
conduct, to repent of your evil deeds, to be incessant in prayers to the
great and merciful God to forgive you your . . . sins."
John Hancock, president of the Continental Congress, said, "Let us
humbly commit our righteous cause to the great Lord of the Universe."
Governor Morris, who wrote the Constitution in 1787, and wrote in 1790
and in 1791, two commentaries on the Constitution said, "Religion is the
solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the
precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God."
William Paterson, a signer of the Constitution, closed his speeches with
Proverbs 29:2: "When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. When the
wicked rule, the people groan."
George Mason, father of the Bill of Rights, exclaimed, "My soul I resign
into the hands of my Almighty Creator, whose tender mercies are all over
His works . . . "
Nathan Hale, called the "Martyr Spy," came from a solid Christian
foundation and upbringing. He is best remembered for his last words,
prior to laying down his life for God and country at the young age of
twenty-one, "I only regret that I have but one life to loose for my
country."
Two other founding fathers of our nation that expressed their fervent
Christian beliefs were Roger Sherman and Charles Cotesworth Pinckney.
Alexander Hamilton could also be added to that list.
John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court wrote, "Unto Him
who is the Author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble
thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our
redemption and salvation by His beloved Son."
James Wilson, George Washington’s appointment to the Supreme Court
stated, "Christianity is part of the common-law."
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (appointed by President James
Madison) called America a "Christian country."
Statesman Daniel Webster warned of political disaster. He stated, "If we
and our posterity neglect religious instruction and authority . . . no
man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us." Webster said on
December 22,1820, observing the 200th anniversary of the landing of the
Pilgrims at Plymouth, Massachusetts, "Let us not forget the religious
character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high
veneration of the Christian religion."
French historian Alex de Tocqueville, author of "Democracy in America"
in 1835, wrote, "There is no country in the world where the Christian
religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."
Noah Webster, who literally wrote the English dictionary claimed, "The
moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form
the basis of all civil Constitutions and laws."
Patrick Henry, a Christian patriot, golden tongued orator of the
Revolutionary period, and the only U.S. Governor to be elected and
reelected five times said in a celebrated speech before the
Revolutionary War, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be
purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I
know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or
give me death!" Henry also said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists,
but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospels of Jesus Christ."
One of the great slogans of the American Revolution was "No King but
King Jesus!"
In 1799 the Supreme Court in Maryland ruled: "By our form of government
the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and
denominations of Christians are placed upon equal footing, and they are
equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."
The founding fathers expected officeholders to be Christians.While
denominational affiliation didn’t matter, a belief in God and the Bible
was paramount. Nine of the thirteen colonies had written constitutions.
Many of them required officeholders to sign a declaration that amounted
to a statement of faith. The Delaware Constitution of 1776 is a perfect
example. Everyone appointed to public office had to say: "I do profess
faith in God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ His only Son, and
in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed forevermore; and I do acknowledge
the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine
inspiration."
Two historians at the University of Houston did a 10-year study of the
ideas that shaped our republic. They started with 15,000 documents from
the Colonial era, which were boiled down to 3,154 statements. The three
most quoted individuals were French philosopher Montesquieu (8.3
percent), English jurist William Blackstone (7.9 percent) and English
philosopher John Locke (2.9 percent). But Biblical citations dwarfed
them all. Ninety-four percent of the founding fathers quotes were based
on the Bible--34 percent directly from its pages and 60 percent from men
who had used the Bible to arrive at their conclusions.
The Bible is the foundation upon which our nation was built. A hundred
and nineteen of the first schools, including Harvard, Princeton,
Dartmouth, and Yale, were established on the Word of God and dedicated
to the Lordship of Christ and for the training of disciples of the Lord.
As late as 1850 Christians ran virtually every newspaper in this
country. The law and the federal and local judiciaries were either all
Christians or Jewish.
The Continental Congress, in 1777, recommended and approved that the
Committee of Commerce "import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or
elsewhere," because of the great need of the American people and the
great shortage caused by the interruption of trade with England by the
Revolutionary War.
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible opened to
Deuteronomy 6. In his first inaugural address, President Washington
acknowledged God for the reason for America’s birth: "It would be
improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplication to
that Almighty Being. . . . No people can be bound to acknowledge and
adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than
people of the United States. . . . We ought to be no less persuaded that
the propitious smiles of Heaven cannot be expected on a nation that
disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has
ordained." President Washington’s inaugural address concluded with a
church service at Saint Paul’s Chapel, led by the chaplains of Congress.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual
that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly
devout man."
John Adams, our second president, said, "Our Constitution was made only
for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the
government or any other."
Even Thomas Jefferson, third president, and one who certainly did not
hold to all the traditional doctrines of Christianity, placed the Bible
and Isaac Watt’s Book of Psalms and Hymns in the District of Columbia’s
public schools. Jefferson declared religion: "Deemed in other countries
incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be
its best support."
James Madison, fourth president of the United States and referred to as
the "Father of the Constitution," stated, "The belief in a God All
Powerful, wise and good, is essential to the moral order of the world
and to the happiness of man."
John Quincy Adams, sixth President of the United States and "Chief
Architect" of the Constitution said, "The highest glory of the American
Revolution was it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of
civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Andrew Jackson, our seventh president claimed (referring to the Bible)
"That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic stands."
A QUICK TOUR OF OUR CAPITOL REMINDS US THAT THIS NATION WAS BUILT UPON
THE FOUNDATIONS OF CHRISTIAN BELIEF.
* The Supreme Court building portrays Moses holding the Ten
Commandments through which the voice of God thunders "Thou shalt not
murder."
* The Capitol Rotunda contains eight massive oil paintings, each
depicting a major event in history. Four of these paintings portray
Jesus Christ and the Bible: 1) Columbus landing on the shores of the New
World, and holding high the cross of Jesus Christ, 2) a group of Dutch
pilgrims gathered around a large, opened Bible, 3) a cross being planted
in the soil, commemorating the discovery of the Mississippi River by the
Explorer De Soto, and 4) the Christian baptism of the Indian convert
Pocahontas.
* Statuary Hall contains life size statues of famous citizens that
have been given by individual states. Medical missionary Marcus Whitman
stands big as life, holding a Bible. Another statue is of missionary
Junipero Serra, who founded the missions of Los Angeles, San Francisco,
Montery and San Diego. Illinois sent a statue of Francis Willard, an
associate of the evangelist Dwight L. Moody.
* Inscribed on the walls of the Library of Congress are quotes
honoring the study of art, the wall is etched with "Nature is the art of
God." A quote honoring Science says, "The heavens declare the glory of
God." An inspiration honoring religion is Micah 6:8, "What doth the Lord
require of thee but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with
thy God."
* On a wall in the Jefferson Memorial we read, "God who gave us
life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure
when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of
people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be
violated without His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I
reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
* As you climb the steps inside the Washington Monument you will
notice stones with inscriptions on them. Some of them are, "Search the
Scriptures" – "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is
old he will not depart from it" – "The memory of the just is blessed" –
"Holiness to the Lord" – and the top which says "Praise be to God!"
* Inscribed on the north wall of the Lincoln Memorial is the
Presidents second inaugural address. Lincoln feared that God would not
be satisfied until every drop of blood drawn by the lash is repaid by
another drop of blood drawn by the sword.
Are these inscriptions just empty words, nostalgic sayings that no
longer describe the ideals of our nation’s government? Consider the
message of another inscription, this one at the base of a large statute
entitled "Heritage," which is outside the main entrance of the National
Archives. It reads: "The heritage of the past is the seed that brings
forth the harvest of the future."
No seed flourishes if it is not cultivated.
These facts of our national history, quotations, monuments, paintings,
and inscriptions shout through the generations that the highest values
of these United States are firmly founded in the God of truth and the
Christian faith.
Thou shalt not commit adultery? Ever read a biography of Ben
Franklin?
Thous shalt be "perfect" - ever read about the one man who was?
Thou shalt no kill? Those patriots at Lexington and Concord did a
***** Cheney and accidentally shot the British when they saw the
"whites of their eyes"?
http://www.mercyseat.net/DEFEND/gunapologetic.htm
Exodus 22:2 In this verse, God declares that if someone breaks into your
house at night and you kill him, you are not guilty of murder. This
verse makes clear that you have a God-given right to defend yourself and
to defend your family.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 This passage deals with rape. Notice that verse 27
ends with the words "but there was no one to save her." What is the
implication of such a statement? The implication is that had someone
been around to hear her cry out, they had a moral duty to intervene and
protect her from being raped. To stand by would be immoral. We have a
God-given right to defend not only ourselves, but also others.
Thou shalt not covet? Don't make me laugh - this is the most covetous
society that ever existed.
Is perfection the only metric of principles?
Do the principles were were founded on mean nothing without our own
perfection?
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
19 Apr 2006 11:43:42 AM |
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"samurai" <sam@rai.ki> wrote in message
news:lBc1g.228049$Y53.104104@fe07.news.easynews.com...
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
Why should we adhere to ANY of the basic Judeo-Christian principles this
nation was founded on?
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
How you do love this biased revisionist reference.
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| User: "samurai" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
19 Apr 2006 05:35:03 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"samurai" <sam@rai.ki> wrote in message
news:lBc1g.228049$Y53.104104@fe07.news.easynews.com...
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
Why should we adhere to ANY of the basic Judeo-Christian principles this
nation was founded on?
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
How you do love this
Plenty, and you?
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
19 Apr 2006 02:52:42 AM |
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samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
Most people don’t realize what this nation was like at its beginning.
Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as
the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our
country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic
Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the
people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.
Actually not. Fewer people were members of any church in 1776 that
are members of a church today.
These pastors preached
resounding sermons that resonated throughout New England about the evils
of tyranny and the importance of liberty.
So? That some preachers in one sect gave sermons does not make it a
"Judeo-Christian principle". The history of Europe shows in fact that
liberty is NOT a Christian principle, but traditionally was
anti-Christian.
Revolutionary leaders were devout men who could not have been more
empathic in their determination that our national policy rested on
Scriptural foundation. Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional
Convention, 52 were Orthodox Christians.
Nonsense. Many of them were Protestants, a couple were Catholics,
some were Deists. I doubt if any were Orthodox.
After signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, who was
called the firebrand of the American Revolution,
He may have been called that, but in fact like Patrick Henry, he had
almost no effect on the country that was formed after the Revolution.
affirmed his obedience
to God by stating, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom
alone men ought to be obedient. From the rising to the setting of the
sun may His kingdom come."
But of course they were no more obedient after the Revolution than
before, and probably were less obedient.
[whole bunch of meaningless quotes deleted]
I've yet to see one "Judeo-Christian principle" mentioned in this. I
see quotes showing that there were a few politicians who had no qualms
about invoking God - often a good political move, but not a
"Judeo-Christian principle". Indeed "taking the Lords name in vain"
is precisely NOT what the Bible commands.
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (appointed by President James
Madison) called America a "Christian country."
The US Congress in ratifying the Treaty of Tripoli in the 1790s, said
that the US was NOT a Christian country.
Statesman Daniel Webster
He wasn't a founder.
French historian Alex de Tocqueville,
Also not a founder.
author of "Democracy in America"
in 1835, wrote, "There is no country in the world where the Christian
religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."
That was a criticism of Europe. And it is still not a Judeo-Christian
principle.
Noah Webster,
Also not a founder
who literally wrote the English dictionary
Actually, he wrote an American dictionary.
claimed, "The
moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form
the basis of all civil Constitutions and laws."
He may have said it, but in fact it was not true of any of them.
Patrick Henry, a Christian patriot, golden tongued orator of the
Revolutionary period, and the only U.S. Governor to be elected and
reelected five times
It was during the Revolution, and most of the rest of the leaders were
serving the country, and were unavailable to run against him.
said in a celebrated speech before the
Revolutionary War, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be
purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I
know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or
give me death!" Henry also said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists,
but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospels of Jesus Christ."
One of the great slogans of the American Revolution was "No King but
King Jesus!"
And in a great battle against Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, he
*lost*, and the principle of religious liberty was put into the
Virginia Constitution and later into the US Constitution. Patrick
Henry was *opposed* to religious liberty, despite his famous quote.
And he lost.
In 1799 the Supreme Court in Maryland ruled: "By our form of government
the Christian religion is the established religion;
That may have been true in 1799, but by 30 years later, all states had
eliminated established religion.
The founding fathers expected officeholders to be Christians.
Thomas Jefferson was elected, and he did not believe in the deity of
Christ, nor the resurrection.
Thou shalt not commit adultery? Ever read a biography of Ben
Franklin?
Thous shalt be "perfect" - ever read about the one man who was?
He wasn't a founder of this country.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 This passage deals with rape. Notice that verse 27
ends with the words "but there was no one to save her." What is the
implication of such a statement?
What is the implication of the verse where the "godly" Lot offered his
daughters to the people of Sodom?
The implication is that had someone
been around to hear her cry out, they had a moral duty to intervene and
protect her from being raped. To stand by would be immoral. We have a
God-given right to defend not only ourselves, but also others.
The Christian principle is to "turn the other cheek".
Thou shalt not covet? Don't make me laugh - this is the most covetous
society that ever existed.
Is perfection the only metric of principles?
Umm. Yes. We determine what "perfection" IS on the basis of our
principles. And in this country, coveting is a fundamental principle.
The term usually used is "capitalism".
Do the principles were were founded on mean nothing without our own
perfection?
The principles do not exist, if we in fact do not aspire to live
according to them. And this country does not even *aspire* to live by
the principles of half the ten commandments, nor does it believe in
"turning the other cheek" or "giving all of our wealth to the poor",
two notable principles set forth by Jesus Christ. As for the Judeo
part, we do not eschew seafood or pork, we mix clothing, and we do not
stone our young people to death when they are rude to their parents.
Nope, our principles are derived IN SPITE of our Judeo-Christian
heritage, not because of it.
lojbab
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| User: "samurai" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
19 Apr 2006 05:35:00 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
Most people don’t realize what this nation was like at its beginning.
Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as
the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our
country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic
Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the
people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.
Actually not.
Take it up with the authors Borg-brain.
These pastors preached
resounding sermons that resonated throughout New England about the evils
of tyranny and the importance of liberty.
So?
So live with it.
Revolutionary leaders were devout men who could not have been more
empathic in their determination that our national policy rested on
Scriptural foundation. Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional
Convention, 52 were Orthodox Christians.
Nonsense. Many of them were
Cite!
After signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, who was
called the firebrand of the American Revolution,
He may have been called that, but in fact like Patrick Henry, he had
almost no effect on the country
***** and die.
affirmed his obedience
to God by stating, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom
alone men ought to be obedient. From the rising to the setting of the
sun may His kingdom come."
But of course they were no more obedient after the Revolution
Byte off.
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (appointed by President James
Madison) called America a "Christian country."
The US Congress in ratifying the Treaty of Tripoli in the 1790s, said
that the US was NOT a Christian country.
Yawn.
Statesman Daniel Webster
He wasn't
Yawn.
French historian Alex de Tocqueville,
Also not
Yawn.
author of "Democracy in America"
in 1835, wrote, "There is no country in the world where the Christian
religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."
That was a criticism
Yawn.
Noah Webster,
Also not
Yawn.
who literally wrote the English dictionary
Actually, he wrote an American
Yawn.
claimed, "The
moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form
the basis of all civil Constitutions and laws."
He may have said it,
Yawn.
Patrick Henry, a Christian patriot, golden tongued orator of the
Revolutionary period, and the only U.S. Governor to be elected and
reelected five times
It was during the Revolution,
Yawn.
said in a celebrated speech before the
Revolutionary War, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be
purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I
know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or
give me death!" Henry also said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists,
but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospels of Jesus Christ."
One of the great slogans of the American Revolution was "No King but
King Jesus!"
And in a great battle against
Yawn.
In 1799 the Supreme Court in Maryland ruled: "By our form of government
the Christian religion is the established religion;
That may have been true
Yawn.
The founding fathers expected officeholders to be Christians.
Thomas Jefferson was elected,
Yawn.
Thou shalt not commit adultery? Ever read a biography of Ben
Franklin?
Thous shalt be "perfect" - ever read about the one man who was?
He wasn't
Yawn.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 This passage deals with rape. Notice that verse 27
ends with the words "but there was no one to save her." What is the
implication of such a statement?
What is the implication of the verse where the "godly"
Nothing to do with you.
The implication is that had someone
been around to hear her cry out, they had a moral duty to intervene and
protect her from being raped. To stand by would be immoral. We have a
God-given right to defend not only ourselves, but also others.
The Christian principle is
Unfamiliar to you.
Thou shalt not covet? Don't make me laugh - this is the most covetous
society that ever existed.
Is perfection the only metric of principles?
Umm. Yes. We determine what "perfection" IS
Nope, God does.
Do the principles were were founded on mean nothing without our own
perfection?
The principles do not exist,
No Borg-brain YOU do not exist.
East ***** and die you *****.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
20 Apr 2006 11:21:52 AM |
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samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
Most people don’t realize what this nation was like at its beginning.
Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as
the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our
country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic
Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the
people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.
Actually not.
Take it up with the authors Borg-brain.
I am discussing the subject on Usenet. If the authors are interested
in discussing it, they will come here. You posted the link,
supposedly as a response to my question. If you did not wish to
discuss the material in the link, why did you post it? It certainly
did not answer my question, and was wrong in several of its claims,
not to mention plagiaristic in listing the same set of irrelevant
quotes that a large number of other religious reich pages list in an
attempt to claim that this is a "Christian nation" (which is a
different issue from what Judeo-Christian principles that nation was
supposedly founded on).
These pastors preached
resounding sermons that resonated throughout New England about the evils
of tyranny and the importance of liberty.
So?
So live with it.
I have no trouble living with it, but it does not respond to my
request.
Revolutionary leaders were devout men who could not have been more
empathic in their determination that our national policy rested on
Scriptural foundation. Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional
Convention, 52 were Orthodox Christians.
Nonsense. Many of them were
Cite!
Deists:
Ben Franklin, James Wilson, Hugh Williamson, Governor Morris
Theists:
James Madison, George Washington
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qtable.htm
http://www.adherents.com/people/pw/George_Washington.html
<Although he was an Anglican and an Episcopalian, Washington reportedly
< did not take communion and was not considered an official
< "communicant" (full-fledged adult church member).
You will note that not one person in the table is cited as being
associated with any of the Orthodox churches.
After signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, who was
called the firebrand of the American Revolution,
He may have been called that, but in fact like Patrick Henry, he had
almost no effect on the country
***** and die.
I take that as an admission of defeat, loser.
affirmed his obedience
to God by stating, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom
alone men ought to be obedient. From the rising to the setting of the
sun may His kingdom come."
But of course they were no more obedient after the Revolution
Byte off.
I take that as an admission of defeat, loser.
[public drowsiness deleted as nonresponsive]
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 This passage deals with rape. Notice that verse 27
ends with the words "but there was no one to save her." What is the
implication of such a statement?
What is the implication of the verse where the "godly"
Nothing to do with you.
Did Christ authorize you to judge godliness?
Thou shalt not covet? Don't make me laugh - this is the most covetous
society that ever existed.
Is perfection the only metric of principles?
Umm. Yes. We determine what "perfection" IS
Nope, God does.
The word is an English word. English speakers determine the meaning
and referent of English words. While the omnipotent God could dictate
the choice of English speakers, that would be a removal of free will,
and thus contradictory to the Bible.
Do the principles were were founded on mean nothing without our own
perfection?
The principles do not exist,
No Borg-brain YOU do not exist.
I post, therefore I am.
East ***** and die you *****.
I take that as an admission of defeat, loser.
lojbab
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| User: "samurai" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
20 Apr 2006 11:41:04 AM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
samurai <sam@rai.ki> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Which Judeo-Christian principles was this nation founded on?
Garsh, a whole bunch of them!
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/categorized_articles/heritage/ach_part2/ach_part2.htm
Most people don’t realize what this nation was like at its beginning.
Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as
the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our
country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic
Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the
people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.
Actually not.
Take it up with the authors Borg-brain.
I am discussing the subject on Usenet.
Not with me you ain't shitbird, I neither care to waste the time on your
absurd revisionism, nor grant you the medium to engage in such.
In future I will simply post over you ad nauseum - enjoy *****, you
earned it!
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 12:21:43 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145318662.291608.282160@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
On the other hand, people like you who promote dishonesty have many
homosexuals to vote for at the present time. Why are you complaining
to me about the government?
HE'S NOT COMPLAINING TO YOU ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT. HE'S ASKING YOU A
QUESTION. BE ADULT ENOUGH TO ADDRESS IT.
-c
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 02:30:24 PM |
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gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145318662.291608.282160@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Why should our government adhere to your religious definition of
marraige?
On the other hand, people like you who promote dishonesty have many
homosexuals to vote for at the present time. Why are you complaining
to me about the government?
HE'S NOT COMPLAINING TO YOU ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT. HE'S ASKING YOU A
QUESTION. BE ADULT ENOUGH TO ADDRESS IT.
In this government you are free to vote for any homosexuals you want to
vote for. If I know that a candidate is homosexual, I do not vote for
that candidate because I do not regard homosexuals as being honest.
This government adheres to whatever gets voted into office. Right now
whatever gets voted into office comes from two corrupt political
parties. You might want to direct your question to one of those two
corrupt political parties. I am registered to vote as an independent
voter.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin at Conception? The Bible Says "No" |
18 Apr 2006 04:13:19 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145388623.971385.43940@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
If I know that a candidate is homosexual, I do not vote for
that candidate because I do not regard homosexuals as being honest.
Logic error. Just because an atheist is homosexual does not give evidence
of dishonesty.
JUDGING PEOPLE AND CLAIMING TO BE A CHRISTIAN IS DISHONEST. WHAT DID JESUS
SAY ABOUT JUDGING PEOPLE?
-c
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| User: "Larry Scratch" |
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| Title: Re: Does Life Begin | | | | | | | |
