| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Dom" |
| Date: |
01 Dec 2007 08:26:47 PM |
| Object: |
FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
With respect to most of her political views, I would classify Michelle
Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for addressing
rubbish like "Everyday Math."
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
05 Dec 2007 04:15:31 PM |
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Dom wrote:
With respect to most of her political views, I would classify Michelle
Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for addressing
rubbish like "Everyday Math."
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/
It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they do any more
damage.
--Jeff
--
"Power never concedes anything without a
demand. It never has and it never will."
--Frederick Douglass
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
06 Dec 2007 12:10:53 PM |
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Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
(Dom): "With respect to most of her political views, I would classify
Michelle Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for
addressing rubbish like 'Everyday Math.'
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/"
(Jeff): "It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they
do any more
damage."
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators. It's time to disband
Colleges of Education, everywhere. Let pre-college schools hire people
with degrees in the subject (or in child psych for elementary) and
train new-hires on the job.
On the topic of "Everyday Math" and other lunatic fads which Colleges
of Education inflict on students, real classroom teachers, and
taxpayers: It does not take 12 years at $10,000 per pupil-year to
teach a normal child to read and compute. Many vocational skills are
most effectively learned on the job. The US K-12 education industry
has become an employment program for dues-paying members of the NEA/
AFT/AFSCME cartel, a source of padded contracts for politically-
connected insiders, and a venue for State-worshipful indoctrination.
Ineffective programs like "Everyday Math" advance these goals.
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
07 Dec 2007 11:59:33 AM |
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wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
(Dom): "With respect to most of her political views, I would classify
Michelle Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for
addressing rubbish like 'Everyday Math.'
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/"
(Jeff): "It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they
do any more
damage."
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators.
Bah. Their school of economics is worse.
It's time to disband
Colleges of Education, everywhere. Let pre-college schools hire people
with degrees in the subject (or in child psych for elementary) and
train new-hires on the job.
Who would have the time to train teachers on-the-job? Some formal
training of teachers is a good idea, a full undergraduate program may
not be.
On the topic of "Everyday Math" and other lunatic fads which Colleges
of Education inflict on students, real classroom teachers, and
taxpayers: It does not take 12 years at $10,000 per pupil-year to
teach a normal child to read and compute. Many vocational skills are
most effectively learned on the job. The US K-12 education industry
has become an employment program for dues-paying members of the NEA/
AFT/AFSCME cartel, a source of padded contracts for politically-
connected insiders, and a venue for State-worshipful indoctrination.
Ineffective programs like "Everyday Math" advance these goals.
Oh, it's malcolm. No further rational discourse is possible.
--Jeff
--
I object to violence because when it
appears to do good, the good is only
temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
07 Dec 2007 02:19:26 PM |
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In article <13lj2g22tca1i1f@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
(Dom): "With respect to most of her political views, I would classify
Michelle Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for
addressing rubbish like 'Everyday Math.'
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/"
(Jeff): "It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they
do any more
damage."
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators.
Bah. Their school of economics is worse.
Economics is called the "dismal science". I doubt
that their economics department is that bad.
It's time to disband
Colleges of Education, everywhere. Let pre-college schools hire people
with degrees in the subject (or in child psych for elementary) and
train new-hires on the job.
Who would have the time to train teachers on-the-job? Some formal
training of teachers is a good idea, a full undergraduate program may
not be.
In my previous posting on this, I did say that SOME
might be necessary. But I also pointed out that
training might be bad; different people do things
differently. Also, for much of our history, there
was no "teacher training"; one cannot TRAIN the
important parts, one must educate.
Much of the training is in dealing with the type of
classes we should not be having, and in trying to get
children to socialize instead of learning subject matter.
We see the results; graduates have learned little,
and that mostly by memorization and other rote procedures.
Our teacher training seems to destroy the ability to
understand; efforts to get teachers to understand
the basic concepts of numbers, NOT decimal computation,
have failed miserably. Knowing how to compute with
decimal representation does NOT help.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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| User: "AngleWyrm" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
08 Dec 2007 01:10:00 AM |
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"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:fjc9se$33o4@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
In article <13lj2g22tca1i1f@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com wrote:
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators.
Bah. Their school of economics is worse.
Economics is called the "dismal science". I doubt
that their economics department is that bad.
Last time I picked up an economics book, the very first assertion was: There
are more wants than can ever be satisfied by supply.
I put that book down, and backed away. The notion of getting rich by making
Neon Pink Fork Warmers was threatening to invade my sanity.
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
08 Dec 2007 09:00:17 PM |
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In article <aa6dnZajkq_L3sfanZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
AngleWyrm <anglewyrm@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:fjc9se$33o4@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
In article <13lj2g22tca1i1f@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com wrote:
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators.
Bah. Their school of economics is worse.
Economics is called the "dismal science". I doubt
that their economics department is that bad.
Last time I picked up an economics book, the very first assertion was: There
are more wants than can ever be satisfied by supply.
I put that book down, and backed away. The notion of getting rich by making
Neon Pink Fork Warmers was threatening to invade my sanity.
So you decided to abandon your responsibility for
sound decision making? You leave it to others who
understand little, instead of learning what must
be done?
It is not just how to get rich; it is also how those
with more of one thing than they need trade it with
those who have a different item, and that those with
ideas come up with new items. It is economics which
has led to advances.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.
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| User: "AngleWyrm" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
09 Dec 2007 08:13:28 PM |
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"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:fjflo1$4fk0@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
In article <aa6dnZajkq_L3sfanZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
AngleWyrm <anglewyrm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Last time I picked up an economics book, the very first assertion was:
There
are more wants than can ever be satisfied by supply.
I put that book down, and backed away. The notion of getting rich by
making
Neon Pink Fork Warmers was threatening to invade my sanity.
So you decided to abandon your responsibility for
sound decision making? You leave it to others who
understand little, instead of learning what must
be done?
Responsibility/Fault/Blame are artifacts of a lookup process. Their
usefulness as a search to find (and presumably fix) something broken is
often lost in social settings. Most folks are content to deliver the damage
of blame as a form of 'do better next time, or else.' To add clarity, where
before there was only a morbid joke, I disagree with a stated axiom of that
economics book.
It is not just how to get rich; it is also how those
with more of one thing than they need trade it with
those who have a different item, and that those with
ideas come up with new items. It is economics which
has led to advances.
In 1789, Adam Smith wrote "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the
Wealth of Nations", which can be read online at:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html
This is an excellent economics book, written at a time when knowledge and
understanding were the things that were sought after.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
12 Dec 2007 03:39:30 AM |
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AngleWyrm wrote:
"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:fjflo1$4fk0@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
In article <aa6dnZajkq_L3sfanZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
AngleWyrm <anglewyrm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Last time I picked up an economics book, the very first assertion was:
There
are more wants than can ever be satisfied by supply.
I put that book down, and backed away. The notion of getting rich by
making
Neon Pink Fork Warmers was threatening to invade my sanity.
So you decided to abandon your responsibility for
sound decision making? You leave it to others who
understand little, instead of learning what must
be done?
Responsibility/Fault/Blame are artifacts of a lookup process. Their
usefulness as a search to find (and presumably fix) something broken is
often lost in social settings. Most folks are content to deliver the damage
of blame as a form of 'do better next time, or else.' To add clarity, where
before there was only a morbid joke, I disagree with a stated axiom of that
economics book.
It is not just how to get rich; it is also how those
with more of one thing than they need trade it with
those who have a different item, and that those with
ideas come up with new items. It is economics which
has led to advances.
In 1789, Adam Smith wrote "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the
Wealth of Nations", which can be read online at:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html
This is an excellent economics book, written at a time when knowledge and
understanding were the things that were sought after.
To my mind we have just lived through a golden age in economic/finance
theory. AIUI Herman was a pioneer in the type of mathematics used by
modern investment banks to value financial derivatives.
As for people not taking their reosponsibility to understand economic
issues seriously you should read "When Genius Fails" by Roger
Lowenstein. Its good for a laugh.
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| User: "Dom" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
09 Dec 2007 03:35:10 PM |
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On Dec 7, 12:59 pm, Jeffrey Turner <jtur...@localnet.com> wrote:
malcolmkirkpatr...@yahoo.com wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
(Dom): "With respect to most of her political views, I would classify
Michelle Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for
addressing rubbish like 'Everyday Math.'
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/"
(Jeff): "It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they
do any more
damage."
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators.
Bah. Their school of economics is worse.
Excellent Point! You may be interested in the following book review,
which was published in today's (9 Dec. 2007) Hartford Courant, Page
G4.
=====================
courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-shock1209.artdec09,0,6313570.story
Anti-Corporate Critique Decries Economic 'Shock Treatment'
Free Market Tyranny
By CHAUNCEY MABE, South Florida Sun-Sentinel
December 9, 2007
Silly me. Here I was, thinking that failure in Iraq was the result of
old-fashioned governmental incompetence and cronyism, though
admittedly on a scale previously unknown. Same with New Orleans after
Katrina.
Now comes lefty journalist Naomi Klein with the news that U.S. action
(and inaction) in Mesopotamia and Louisiana mark the culmination of a
conspiracy that stretches back 60 years and even boasts an evil
mastermind.
That would be Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman, chief
popularizer of the now-dominant theories that free market capitalism
always works perfectly, while government oversight is so pernicious
that all services should be outsourced to private contractors.
When viewed through the Friedmanite prism held up by Klein, in fact,
Baghdad and New Orleans suddenly become nicely turned victories in an
ideological surge for the future of the world.
If that sounds grandiose, hold on -- there's more. Klein's thesis also
explains poverty and oppression in Latin America, the elusiveness of
peace in the Middle East, the failure of democracy in Russia, the
sudden championing of torture by the United States and the
proliferation of wealth among the richest Americans while the rest of
us lose buying power.
Klein presents this bleak picture as part of an impressively developed
counternarrative for the past 60 years of geopolitical history, not to
mention a dystopian vision of a near future divided, like New Orleans
post-Katrina, into enclaves for rich and destitute, with the former
burdened by no sense of civic responsibility toward the latter.
That's what, Klein would have us believe, George Bush means when he
uses coded language like "ownership society."
Normally, a book that seeks to explain so much is immediately suspect
as the product of a crank excessively devoted to a single insight. But
in the hands of an intelligent, hard-working journalist like Klein,
who read scores of books, interviewed hundreds of sources and rummaged
around in stacks of research, "The Shock Doctrine" is anything but
simple-minded.
A longtime contributor to The Nation, America's oldest lefty magazine,
Klein is among those reporters unafraid to take sides. Born in Canada,
she declared her anti-corporatist credentials with a 2000 debut, "No
Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies," a ferociously reported book
that chronicled growing resistance to globalism.
Like that book, "The Shock Doctrine" takes familiar material, combines
it with fresh reporting and seeks to illuminate shadowy connections in
the light of a framing theory.
Klein finds her Dr. Evil in Friedman, the economist who held sway for
decades as the leader of the University of Chicago school of
neoliberal thought. It should be noted that in the context of
globalization, the terms "neoliberalism" and "neoconservatism,"
confusingly enough, mean exactly the same thing, which is basically
that what's good for American corporate profits is good for the world.
Friedman had little luck with the gospel of privatization until 1973,
when he convinced Chile's new dictator, Augusto Pinochet, to impose it
upon his nation. Since then, neoliberal privatization has flourished
only in authoritarian regimes, leading Klein to the conclusion that no
properly informed citizenry will ever voluntarily vote to remove
itself from the protections and benefits traditionally afforded by
government.
In other words, globalization, privatization and what Klein calls
"disaster capitalism" are inherently anti-democratic.
Klein uncovers another monster in the form of Dr. Ewan Cameron, whose
experiments at McGill University in the 1950s were sponsored by the
CIA. Cameron believed -- wrongly, duh -- that the human personality
could be disassembled via shock therapy, drugs and sensory deprivation
and then put back together again with healthier traits.
In drawing a line between Cameron's unethical experiments and the
"shock and awe" of recent American policy, both military and economic,
Klein stretches the credibility of her work thinnest. It's not even
clear whether she means this connection to be merely metaphorical -- in
which case it's quite powerful and convincing -- or actual, in which
case it becomes harder to credit.
Although, come to think of it, the entwining of Cameron's theories
with those of Friedman would explain the insistence on the use of
torture by a democratic country and a government -- us -- that
previously forswore it to the admiration of the entire world.
And you have to admit that the terminology is freely applied across
the realms Klein investigates. There is "shock treatment" for
economies, for nations, for enemy combatants. Could Klein be right
about the philosophical connection?
Klein is a savvy journalist and a hard-headed investigator. Best of
all for the weary reader contemplating tackling more than 500 pages,
she's a nimble and forceful writer, one whose narrative, though it
might not stand up to scrutiny in all regards, deserves widespread
reading and discussion.
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
06 Dec 2007 01:22:18 PM |
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In article <d26c6668-2a9c-4453-bfcf-ebdc98df9687@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
<malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
(Dom): "With respect to most of her political views, I would classify
Michelle Malkin as a pseudo-conservative. However, I admire her for
addressing rubbish like 'Everyday Math.'
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/"
(Jeff): "It's time to disband the U. of Chicago entirely, before they
do any more
damage."
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators. It's time to disband
Colleges of Education, everywhere. Let pre-college schools hire people
with degrees in the subject (or in child psych for elementary) and
train new-hires on the job.
These are educationists, not educators. An educator is
someone who wants to teach subject matter to those willing
and able to learn it, and believes that one must understand
subject matter, not just memorize what is to be taught, in
order to do a good job of teaching it.
On the other hand, an educationist is one who believes that
one can teach THE RIGHT way to teach ANY subject, and that
then anyone who knows this can go out and teach without
really learning the subject.
It is time to disband the colleges of education, and keep
only the few topics which teachers really need, devoid from
the educationist principles.
One of my colleagues told me that he could not find anything
wrong with how I was teaching a particular advanced course,
but could not teach it that way. There is no one way to
teach a course, and there is no one way to solve a problem
in mathematics, even if there is only one answer.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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| User: "Pubkeybreaker" |
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| Title: Re: FW: Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic |
06 Dec 2007 12:43:25 PM |
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On Dec 6, 1:10 pm, wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Dom wrote:
U of Chicago has several respected departments/Colleges. Its College
of Education is admired only by educators. It's time to disband
Colleges of Education, everywhere.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
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