GOP Victory Plan 2006



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Topic: Sociology > Education
User: "Deuteros"
Date: 01 Apr 2006 09:43:43 PM
Object: GOP Victory Plan 2006
There has been much ado about losses the Republican Party is expected to
take this upcoming election cycle. There is one angle which the GOP could
take with which they’d be likely to continue to control both houses of
congress: Changing their position on the drug war. It seems unlikely that
the GOP would lose many votes over this issue, but they’d gain a lot of
independent, libertarian, and even Democratic support.
John Stossel is a favorite of right-wingers who still believe the
Republican Party is the more conservative of the two major parties. He
just posted an article at conservative TownHall.com renouncing his former
views on the drug war. From the article:
"Getting high can be bad. Putting people in prison for it is worse. And
doing the latter doesn’t stop the former.
I was once among the majority who believe that drug use must be
illegal. But then I noticed that when vice laws conflict with the law
of supply and demand, the conflict is ugly, and the law of supply and
demand generally wins.
The drug war costs taxpayers about $40 billion. 'Up to three quarters
of our budget can somehow be traced back to fighting this war on
drugs,' said Jerry Oliver, then chief of police in Detroit, told me.
Yet the drugs are as available as ever."
While I doubt I could ever be a Republican again (no matter how
libertarian their positions might become, they’ve repeatedly violated my
trust), comments about the Stossel article indicate that a lot of
Republicans don’t agree with the war on drug users. Here’s a sampling:
"I think you don’t go far enough in your article. If we decriminalise
drugs, we can divert a mere portion of the $40 billion into
rehabilitation of drug dependant users and also into education of its
consequences.
Two important comments I feel should always be added into the killing
the war on drugs and making them legal. They are: employers do not
have to hire you if you choose to use these drugs, and we must also do
away with any social programs that entail addicts or recovering
addicts to government money. With the addition of these two items you
have a completely fool proof method of helping people understand why
they should or should not do them and what happens when they do.
Thanks to Mr. Stossel for a well reasoned piece. I dislike addictive
drugs (incl. alcohol and nicotine) as much as anyone, but harsh
penalties only compound the problem.
John, I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve been saying this for years.
Nobody wants a bunch of 'stoners' in our country, yet despite our best
efforts we still have them; and always will.
I agree. Life sentences in Michigan for distribution sure didn’t work.
Teaching kids about drugs (DARE program) has a negligible to negative
effect on drug use, but it makes parents, teachers, and politicians
feel better."
There are also these sorts of folks in the conservative movement:
"I just think that the argument is the same. If its legal, it must be
A-OK.
the solution to the problem is the death penalty for possession for
distribution, involuntary sterilization for repated recreational and
habitiual drug use, and wholesale agricultural destruction of the
crops. Recreational drug users should be disqualified from any and all
governmental assistance and drug use by parents should result in the
permanent relocation of the dependent children
Surrendering a war because the tactics are not working is
irresponsible. Clearly the problem is that the country is lax on the
deterrent. Make the deterrent high enough and it can absolutely be
controlled.
Offer treatment for first-time convicted users, and give the death
penalty for repeat offenders. For those dealers who peddle death to
our kids and adults the punishment could be enhanced. Give treatment
and a one year prison sentence to small time dealers who plea bargain
by giving up the name of their supplier. Repeat offenders and those up
the supply chain should be sentenced to death."
After considering that most Republicans in Congress favor the continued
death and suffering of medical marijuana patients coupled to these calls
for the death penalty for recreational use, I retract my earlier
statement. There is no hope for the GOP. With extremist views (and they
call us extremists?) such as these, there can be no hope for the
Republican Party. I say we flush the GOP down the toilet so they may
wallow in their own political excrement.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 01 Apr 2006 11:37:59 PM
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:

There has been much ado about losses the Republican Party is expected to
take this upcoming election cycle. There is one angle which the GOP could
take with which they’d be likely to continue to control both houses of
congress: Changing their position on the drug war.

Won't happen.

It seems unlikely that
the GOP would lose many votes over this issue, but they’d gain a lot of
independent, libertarian, and even Democratic support.

And lose their right-wing control freak base.

John Stossel is a favorite of right-wingers who still believe the
Republican Party is the more conservative of the two major parties.

I bet that he believes in the tooth fairy, too.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 03:23:15 PM
Previously, on alt.atheism, Deuteros in episode
<442f486f$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>...

There has been much ado about losses the Republican Party is expected to
take this upcoming election cycle. There is one angle which the GOP could
take with which they’d be likely to continue to control both houses of
congress: Changing their position on the drug war.

They won't. That would mean *reducing the size and power of government...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
User: "Deuteros"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 03 Apr 2006 02:43:06 PM
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:6LKdnX9WPKgur63ZRVn-tQ@megapath.net:

Previously, on alt.atheism, Deuteros in episode
<442f486f$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>...

There has been much ado about losses the Republican Party is expected
to take this upcoming election cycle. There is one angle which the GOP
could take with which they’d be likely to continue to control both
houses of congress: Changing their position on the drug war.


They won't. That would mean *reducing the size and power of
government...

So true. You would think that after taking power after the 1994 election we
would have decreased the size of the federal government at least one year. I
suppose the idea of small government is dead. The Republicans are no better
than the Democrats.
.
User: "Otto Bahn"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 03 Apr 2006 02:46:58 PM
"Deuteros" <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote

There has been much ado about losses the Republican Party is expected
to take this upcoming election cycle. There is one angle which the GOP
could take with which they’d be likely to continue to control both
houses of congress: Changing their position on the drug war.


They won't. That would mean *reducing the size and power of
government...


So true. You would think that after taking power after the 1994 election we
would have decreased the size of the federal government at least one year. I
suppose the idea of small government is dead. The Republicans are no better
than the Democrats.

Why would you want to make Washington D.C. smaller?!
Would you give some of it back to Virginia?
--oTTo--
.

User: "creamedbrainsontoast"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 03 Apr 2006 08:51:50 PM
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote in
news:44317ac9$0$16444$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:

So true. You would think that after taking power after the 1994
election we would have decreased the size of the federal government at
least one year. I suppose the idea of small government is dead. The
Republicans are no better than the Democrats.

if the gop actually delivered on any of their promises, how would they ever keep
getting elected? every four years they drag out some "values" issue in order to
roust the lunatic fundamentalist contingent out to the polls to vote against the
godless secular humanists who want to hand the country over to islamicist
lunatics who would make us all live under shari'a (how's that work, exactly?) and
let fags marry and take away our bibles and so on. then come the day after
election day the goopers toss their religious conviction aside and get to the
real business of giving massive sloppy blowjobs to industry and the super-rich in
exchange for whatever bribes their _real_ patrons are giving them on a particular
day.
religious conservatives need to wake up and realize the republican party is using
them. that their agenda hasn't been put into practice (with the exception of a
few token gestures) despite "their" party controlling all three branches of the
federal government isn't the result of democratic or liberal interference. the
gop has enough power at the federal level to turn into law whatever decree our
home-grown religious mullahs declare necessary whenever they want, but they
don't. until the christianist nutballs get tired of being played for dupes and
form their own party, all they're ever going to get is a few crumbs thrown from
the table in order to keep them hungry enough to turn out to vote gop.
and those principled conservatives who aren't religious extremists, that are less
concerned with ensuring that no one ever engages in any kind of sex act that they
think is gross (or at least that if anyone has the temerity to have sex for any
purpose other than procreation that the consequences are as extreme as humanly
possible) and more concerned with responsible governance and personal and fiscal
responsibility, you'll find more of a home in the democratic party these days
than the gop. say what you will about "tax-and-spend liberals" -- at least
they'll raise taxes to pay for their social programs. the modern gop is totally
incapabable of imagining a positive role for government, viewing it as a
mechanism for enriching its members and whoever pays for their dinner on a given
night. they're perfectly happy to slash taxes, but unwilling to make the spending
cuts that would be needed to balance the budget -- because doing so would require
that they make huge cuts in military spending or else slash deeply into funding
for programs that are either popular with the voting public or their financial
patrons.
since the gop gained (effectively) total control of the government in 2000,
they've doubled the federal deficit. in absolute terms, they've increased it more
than every single president before gwb _combined_. they've enacted the single
largest entitlement program in the history of the country, and got us into an
uneccesary war that's killed 1,000s of americans and 10(0),000s of iraqis with no
end in sight. and they've justified it all with lies, dissembling, and
subterfuge.
i feel bad for conservatives of all stripes, because they have no party to
represent them today. the gop of 2006 has no political ideology beyond winning,
and stuffing its pockets with as much ill-earned gains as it can before people
realize what's going on. it is a party run by con-men and frauds whose first
allegiance is to themselves. i consider myself pretty far from conservative, as
far as these things go, but if i were one, i'd be hopping mad at what had become
of the party that claimed to represent me.
--
-creamedbrainsontoast
"One tablespoon of butter, one egg yolk, one scant tablespoon of flour, salt and
pepper to season, half cup of milk, three-fourths pound of brains. Parboil the
brains. When cool, salt to taste and chop in small pieces. Cook flour and butter
in double boiler; add milk and beaten egg yolk and stir slowly into butter and
flour, add seasoning and brains. Cook about three minutes and serve on toast."
.

User: "Jose."

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 03 Apr 2006 07:43:02 PM
what do you mean "no better"
Even Clinton put us into the black in his term and BUSH has put us into
the worst deficit our nation has experienced in his term
Let alone huge middle class job losses and our manufacturing base being
eroded
This past year was the first year red china had a greater output of
technologically based goods and it wont be the end--
Thanks GWB and Co
.



User: ""

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 06:10:29 AM
Those right-wing "drugs are really evil, mmmkay" powermongering
control-freaks are the poster children for abortion...
And, as R&R labels it ever so succintly, WITHOUT apology.
Besides, who in their right mind would want some lunatic telling them
what medicines they are allowed to take.
There is NOTHING wrong with opiates. AT ALL. They are painkilling
narcotic drugs. Yes, they are drugs of habit and dependence, and yes,
they can cause problems. Alcohol does that too, to a FAR greater
extent. But this senseless war on drugs does nothing but create even
more problems. Putting drug users in prison only escalates their hatred
against buttinsky control freaks. It just makes the problem so much
harder to deal with. As a result society believe the lie they've been
told. But people are waking up....slowly but ever so surely.
You would have thought the government got over themselves and their
self-righteous bigotry when Roe vs Wade legalised abortion in '73 and
the various laws allowing homosexuals to be free from discrimination.
I guess the government still has some, ehem *cough cough* rather
painful lessons to learn. Drug users should be protected from
employment discrimination and/or dismissal UNLESS their drug use
seriously interferes with their work performance, just as happens now
with alcoholics.
If said drugs eventually become legal (and mind you they most certainly
WILL when the American populace suddenly get tired of this mindless and
hateful war on drug users) and YOU choose to use drugs and become
addicted then YOU pay for it, it's YOUR problem, NOT the governments,
NOT anyone elses, NOBODY else's business, but YOURS. Nobody has any
obligation to subsidise drug addicts, and nobody has any right to
punish addicts for using substances UNLESS those substances are causing
severe psychosis (as occurs with some hallucinogens) resulting in the
committing of violent crimes (occurs frequently as a result of various
drugs which are known to be extremely harmful to users and society at
large and those drugs SHOULD be illegal for that very reason).
Heroin and marijuana, on the other hand, if taken orally, are about as
safe as houses, and if used habitually, are no more addictive than
cigarettes and are a whole lot less harmful than cigarettes because one
does not need to smoke them and run the risk of having their lungs rot.
.
User: "junegill"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 09:24:15 AM
<rhinestoneau@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1143976229.682829.218640@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Those right-wing "drugs are really evil, mmmkay" powermongering
control-freaks are the poster children for abortion...

And, as R&R labels it ever so succintly, WITHOUT apology.

Besides, who in their right mind would want some lunatic telling them
what medicines they are allowed to take.

There is NOTHING wrong with opiates. AT ALL. They are painkilling
narcotic drugs. Yes, they are drugs of habit and dependence, and yes,
they can cause problems. Alcohol does that too, to a FAR greater
extent. But this senseless war on drugs does nothing but create even
more problems. Putting drug users in prison only escalates their hatred
against buttinsky control freaks. It just makes the problem so much
harder to deal with. As a result society believe the lie they've been
told. But people are waking up....slowly but ever so surely.

You would have thought the government got over themselves and their
self-righteous bigotry when Roe vs Wade legalised abortion in '73 and
the various laws allowing homosexuals to be free from discrimination.

I guess the government still has some, ehem *cough cough* rather
painful lessons to learn. Drug users should be protected from
employment discrimination and/or dismissal UNLESS their drug use
seriously interferes with their work performance, just as happens now
with alcoholics.

If said drugs eventually become legal (and mind you they most certainly
WILL when the American populace suddenly get tired of this mindless and
hateful war on drug users) and YOU choose to use drugs and become
addicted then YOU pay for it, it's YOUR problem, NOT the governments,
NOT anyone elses, NOBODY else's business, but YOURS. Nobody has any
obligation to subsidise drug addicts, and nobody has any right to
punish addicts for using substances UNLESS those substances are causing
severe psychosis (as occurs with some hallucinogens) resulting in the
committing of violent crimes (occurs frequently as a result of various
drugs which are known to be extremely harmful to users and society at
large and those drugs SHOULD be illegal for that very reason).

Heroin and marijuana, on the other hand, if taken orally, are about as
safe as houses, and if used habitually, are no more addictive than
cigarettes and are a whole lot less harmful than cigarettes because one
does not need to smoke them and run the risk of having their lungs rot.

You forgot to mention the revenue the government could acquire by taxing
drugs. As an example, the UK government collects £10 billion per year
through tobacco taxes. Instead of squandering billions in pursuing drug
users, the US could collect billions from them.
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
.
User: "PTA*"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 09:45:33 AM
"junegill" <junegill@btinternet.com>

<rhinestoneau@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

Those right-wing "drugs are really evil, mmmkay" powermongering
control-freaks are the poster children for abortion...

And, as R&R labels it ever so succintly, WITHOUT apology.

Besides, who in their right mind would want some lunatic telling them
what medicines they are allowed to take.

There is NOTHING wrong with opiates. AT ALL. They are painkilling
narcotic drugs. Yes, they are drugs of habit and dependence, and yes,
they can cause problems. Alcohol does that too, to a FAR greater
extent. But this senseless war on drugs does nothing but create even
more problems. Putting drug users in prison only escalates their
hatred against buttinsky control freaks. It just makes the problem so
much harder to deal with. As a result society believe the lie they've
been told. But people are waking up....slowly but ever so surely.

You would have thought the government got over themselves and their
self-righteous bigotry when Roe vs Wade legalised abortion in '73 and
the various laws allowing homosexuals to be free from discrimination.

I guess the government still has some, ehem *cough cough* rather
painful lessons to learn. Drug users should be protected from
employment discrimination and/or dismissal UNLESS their drug use
seriously interferes with their work performance, just as happens now
with alcoholics.

If said drugs eventually become legal (and mind you they most
certainly WILL when the American populace suddenly get tired of this
mindless and hateful war on drug users) and YOU choose to use drugs
and become addicted then YOU pay for it, it's YOUR problem, NOT the
governments, NOT anyone elses, NOBODY else's business, but YOURS.
Nobody has any obligation to subsidise drug addicts, and nobody has
any right to punish addicts for using substances UNLESS those
substances are causing severe psychosis (as occurs with some
hallucinogens) resulting in the committing of violent crimes (occurs
frequently as a result of various drugs which are known to be
extremely harmful to users and society at large and those drugs SHOULD be illegal for that very reason).

Heroin and marijuana, on the other hand, if taken orally, are about
as safe as houses, and if used habitually, are no more addictive than
cigarettes and are a whole lot less harmful than cigarettes because
one does not need to smoke them and run the risk of having their lungs rot.


You forgot to mention the revenue the government could acquire by
taxing drugs. As an example, the UK government collects 10 billion per
year through tobacco taxes. Instead of squandering billions in
pursuing drug users, the US could collect billions from them.

Not only that, legalization would allow for regulation in addition to
taxation. The quality/purity could be specified, sold in specific quantities,
limited to select licensee's for sale similar to liquor, age limits can
be specified, etc...
Of course anyone who has a seen a high-schooler smoking cigarettes knows
that some regulation is not always effective ;) however, by restricting
location of sale it is possible to have better control.
Think also about the fact that by removing the need for the WoD all of
the costs associated can also be spent in other areas or even... Reduce
federal spending.
Additional cost benefit is that crime associated with black market drug
operations would decline. Loss of life would be reduced and drug users
would not be made into criminals and locked up in prison. This would decrease
the burden on the justice system, etc...
In countries where drug use has been legalized coupled with harm reduction
policies the instances of drug abuse/addiction have actually declined over
time.
The WoD is an example of social politics. The Federal Government was
not conceived to protect us from ourselves...
--
-PTA*
Posted by NewsLook (Trial Licence) from http://www.ghytred.com/NewsLook/about.aspx
.


User: "Johnny"

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 09:33:50 AM
You work for some pharmaceutical company?
I would like to know if you are allied with the drug pusher medical
malpractice group.
Obviously, if you are Pro-Choice you are likely to be involved in the
sappology game which takes from the poor to fund the rich.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: GOP Victory Plan 2006 02 Apr 2006 08:37:10 PM
Nope. Just a simple man who wants freedom (within reason) for all.
That includes basic human rights. The war on drugs deprives us of basic
human rights. The war on drugs has to end. It does not achieve
anything. The war on abortion did not achieve anything. It deprived
women of basic human rights, and many women died or were rendered
sterile from the fact that abortion was illegal, not to mention the
number of suicides. The same things are seen in the war on drugs -
people dying from ODs because the safety and quality of the product or
service was not regulated (ditto for illegal abortion), people being
maimed for the same reasons, imprisoned because they chose something
that was "morally disagreeable" (ditto with abortion), and lives
needlessly ruined and of course there are the suicides that result from
such (all because of moral/religious busybodyism)...and for what? Some
moral busybodies who have too much time on their hands...
But it seems like we still have a long way to go. The war on drugs is
the next thing that has to be scrapped, just as the war on women was
scrapped and rightly so, so shall the war on drugs and the war on death
with dignity. It's only a matter of time.
I may not agree with abortion or use of certain drugs and my opinion on
dying with dignity may be different by the time I come of old age, but
the right to privacy and control over one's body are basic human rights
that should never be abridged. Our bodies do not belong to the
government. My opinion is just an opinion. Human rights are beyond
opinion and beyond government control. Nobody has the right to deprive
another of their basic human rights. Nobody.
.




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