chupacabra <blood@suck.er> wrote:

Bob LeChevalier wrote:

chupacabra <blood@suck.er> wrote:

It was some crass adult pandering to hormonal kids!

Who will indeed have sex, because that is what many hormonal kids do.

Kids also inevitably shoplift, drive while intoxicated, and other stupid
things, we may as well coach them into those lifestyle choices too.

Some will do those things, but none are especially inevitable, nor are
determined by hormones.

This is the sort of communication
that might be effective. We know that preaching pure abstinence
has no positive effect whatsoever.

BULL *****!

Sorry, but kids have sex whether you tell them not to, or not.

Sorry, I have studies that say otherwise:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Abstinence/wm738.cfm

Heritage.org has a known agenda.

The people who review the studies
without an agenda seem to disagree.

Do you stop telling kids to wash their hands after they crap because
they're lazy?

What possible relevance does that have?

It's a basic human condition, and one that can be treated sensibly or
not - which do YOU do?

Well, I certainly didn't waste a lot of effort trying to police my
kids' handwashing.

I have seen no one post data
on what percentage of kids wash, and any relevance of parental orders
or kid laziness to that percentage.

Yet we know that EVERY responsible parent teaches their kids this, right????

I don't know any such thing. Have you a cite?

There is data on kid sex, and "abstinence education" has no measurable
effect on it.

***** LIAR!

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Abstinence/wm738.cfm

A new study by Dr. Robert Lerner published in the Institute for Youth
Development’s peer-reviewed journal Adolescent & Family Health bolsters
the case for the effectiveness of abstinence programs in reducing teens’
high-risk behaviors, including sexual activity, smoking, and alcohol and
drug use. The study evaluates the effectiveness of the Best Friends
abstinence education program and finds that students in it are
significantly less likely than their peers to engage in any of these
high-risk behaviors.[ii] This important research joins ten other
evaluations that have also showed positive effects of abstinence
programs.[iii]

The "Best Friends" program is for 5th and 6th graders. They aren't
teens, and most aren't sexually active anyway.

Show me the studies that show that former "Best Friends students" who
are seniors in high school act any different from their peers.

Only 7 percent of parents believe that it is okay for teens in high
school to engage in sexual intercourse as long as they use condoms,
which is the predominant theme of “comprehensive” sex education.

False. That is NOT the theme. A more accurate statement would be
that "we don't want you to have sex, but we also know that we can't
stop you if you are determined enough, so we want you to be as safe as
possible".

Teens themselves welcome the abstinence message and appear to be heeding
it. A December 2004 poll by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen
Pregnancy found that a clear majority of adolescents—69 percent—agree
that it is not okay for high school teens to engage in sexual
intercourse.[xii] Data from the CDC confirms this, as the YRBS survey
shows that the number of teens who have ever had sexual intercourse has
fallen seven percent in the last 12 years, from 54 percent in 1991 to 46
percent in 2003.[xiii]

How odd that you don't recognize the obvious contradictions in this
data. 69% say it is "not OK" which means that no more than 31% think
that it "is OK". Yet 46% have engaged in sexual intercourse and admit
it.

What kind of cave-in, permissive parent are you????

My kids made it to adulthood without any pregnancies.

And I know of several kids that have had sex at an adult-chaperoned
events sponsored by an organization that doesn't even tolerate public
displays of affection. People will find a way. Kids are people.

You're WAY far out of touch with how early kids get into sex these days.

How about grades nine through twelve?

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=vn20050710123619850C495299

One out of every three children is having sex at the age of 10...

Interesting. 1 out of 3 is having sex by the age of 10, but the other
source says that only 46% have had sex at all. Why do I suspect that
these numbers don't much track with each other?

These are the findings of a comprehensive survey by the Community
Information, Empowerment and Transparency (CIET Africa) in November and
December 2002.

Ah, and here we see why. The 46% in the US, whereas the 1 out of 3 is
in Africa, where they have a strongly different culture.

A compendium of abstracts from each of these studies and many more is
available at
http://www.abstinence.net/pdf/contentmgmt/2007_Abstinence_Education_Evaluation_Conference_Compendium.pdf

I see a lot of statistical handwaving in those studies, and not much
evidence that the kids are having less sex than any other kids. And
the kids who ARE having sex haven't learned what they need to learn
about health and safety in an abstinence-only program.

Must be why we need to COACH them into having sex....

They don't need coaching. Their bodies do the coaching. They do need
coaching to know how to be safe.