In article <okc3g3l2378q3a6p047v6ij4kfuf4t3961@4ax.com>,
Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> wrote:

Harold Burton wrote:

In article <2unje39biop60t2f35obnccuvspd7d988d@4ax.com>,
Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> wrote:

Shouldn't holocaust denail here in the USA be a "hate crime" as it is over
in
Europe?

Nope.

Then what should?

Some other "denail".

Snicker.

Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> wrote:

Bert Hyman wrote:

In news:2unje39biop60t2f35obnccuvspd7d988d@4ax.com Jd
<ZionsFire@att.net> wrote:

Shouldn't holocaust denail here in the USA be a "hate crime" as it is
over in Europe?

Not unless you're planing on burning the Constitution.

Good answer. So then the preaching against homosexuality by Christian
preachers
can't ever be a "hate crime" either unless you're planning on burning the
Constitution... right?

"can't ever" is too strong a statement. Preaching in and of itself is
not a "hate crime" but some "free speech" can violate civil and
criminal law (e.g. slander and libel).

lojbab

Jd wrote:

Bert Hyman wrote:

In news:2unje39biop60t2f35obnccuvspd7d988d@4ax.com Jd
<ZionsFire@att.net> wrote:

Shouldn't holocaust denail here in the USA be a "hate crime" as it is
over in Europe?

Not unless you're planing on burning the Constitution.

Good answer. So then the preaching against homosexuality by Christian
preachers
can't ever be a "hate crime" either unless you're planning on burning the
Constitution... right?

Correct.

It certainly qualifies as hate. But it is not and should not be a
crime.

Jd wrote:

Bill Rood wrote:

Jd wrote:

Shouldn't holocaust denail here in the USA be a "hate crime" as it is over in Europe?

Interesting that the very same people who would agitate to make
"holocaust denial" a hate crime often scream bloody murder when some
fool is charged with a hate crime for throwing a stolen copy of the
Koran into a toilet. I notice you posted this to alt.religion.islam. How
does this post relate to Islam, unless you somehow believe Muslims are
prone to "holocaust denial" or are unfairly the beneficiaries of hate
crime legislation.

Also, you might want to explain just exactly what is meant by "holocaust
denial". After all, Norman Finkelstein, whose parents were both death
camp survivors, has been accused of being a "holocaust denier" and a
"self-hating Jew" simply for criticizing the Holocaust (with a capital
"H") industry, while acknowledging the holocaust (with a small "h"). If
someone claims only 3 million Jews were killed instead of the "official"
6 million figure, is that person a "holocaust denier"? Is Abe Foxman a
"holocaust denier" because he lobbied against Congressional recognition
of the Armenian holocaust? Am I a "holocaust denier" because I just
referred to the Armenian genocide as a "holocaust", thus denying the
"uniqueness" of the shoah? How about if I point out that the Israelis
treat Palestinians in much the same way the Nazis treated Jews before
they embarked upon their "final solution"? After all, the main point of
constantly whining about the holocaust is to justify Israel's existence
and accuse anti-zionists of wanting to destroy Jews, isn't it? What if I
aver that African Americans (or Palestinians) are just as entitled to
reparations for past injustice as Jews are? Does that also make me a
"denier"?

There's plenty of real hate in the world and real crimes motivated by
hate. We don't need to criminalize pure expression that makes no attempt
to incite criminality.

--- Germany wants Holocaust denial to be EU-wide crime (08 January 2007, 19:29 CET) ---

(BERLIN) - Germany wants to make Holocaust denial punishable by law in every member state of the
European Union during its current presidency of the bloc, Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries said on
Monday.

"Denial of the Holocaust is an example of what would be punishable by law if standardization took
place," Zypries said at a press conference to present the German government's programme on justice
matters for the next six months.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1168275602.74

"Holocaust denial was made a crime in Germany in 1985 and the use of Nazi insignia is forbidden."

"To make the text acceptable to Britain, Ireland and the Scandinavian states -- particularly
concerned about curbs to their freedoms of expression -- Holocaust denial will only qualify under
the EU-wide rules if it is deemed likely to incite hatred."

"It is covered in a clause that states that the penalties will also apply to "publicly, condoning,
denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes," as
defined by the International Criminal Court and the post-World War II Nuremberg trials."

http://www.eubusiness.com/Living_in_EU/eu-racism.51?searchterm=holocaust+denial

Jd (ZionsFire)

God promised the land of Israel to the Jews. Muslims hate Jews and want their tiny bit of land even
though they themselves already occupy the rest of the entire middle east.

Muslims

Is that *ALL* Muslims? Do you even know any Muslims personally?

not only deny the holocaust but are also the greediest, most blood-thirsty form of humans
that exist on the planet.

Nineteen crazed criminals notwithstanding, no Muslim government has sent
its military halfway around the world to slaughter American civilians.
For that matter, no Muslim government has attacked Israel since 1973.
But the US has sent 160,000 soldiers and 120,000 mercenaries to Iraq,
predictably causing the deaths of close to a million Iraqis and making
refugees of another 4 million. That's 5% of Iraqis dead and 20%
refugees. And our buddies in Tel Aviv have attacked and invaded Lebanon
several times since 1980.

While claiming to be holy,

While claiming to be holy, you advocate policies calculated to bring
"Armageddon" to reality. When did Jesus ever say to make war on one's
neighbor?

they grow poppies,

Opium cultivation was virtually wiped out under the Taliban. It took our
buddies in the criminal Northern Alliance to re-introduce that lucrative
cash crop. The Taliban was a cruel, hateful regime, but it tried to
implement Islam according to its limited understanding of what Mohammed
taught, and drugs and alcohol are against those teachings.

make opium to sell to the
rest of the world.... and slit anyones throat who opposes them.

In other words, the real axe you're grinding has nothing whatsoever to
do with "holocaust denial," as you made no attempt to counter any of my
logical arguments or answer my legitimate questions or requests for
clarification. "Holocaust denial" is really just a convenient bludgeon
to try to use against the real object of your hate -- Muslims.

And worse than that, you cowards are too spineless to protect your own families and friends from
them.

So why aren't YOU in Iraq or Afghanistan? Spewing hateful bile on the
internet has nothing to do with protecting anybody's family or friends.

Jd